Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

chiaw · November 2004

The problem with that is simply not the case. Base on the picture it's clear how why HID especially in this case brighten's view in front of driver.

Picture don't lie. Only lack of knowledge by so called expert does.

The problem with HID is not OEM issue. It's numerous idiots out there that went the aftermarket route that is blinding others and some SUV.

I will go home today and post another picture to prove the so called expert from USA today are complete idiots. I have 2 W211 E class at home (a BI-Xeon E55 and a regluar Halogen E500). You will see a huge difference between the two on amount of coverage in front of driver.

Here is the problem i have with so called expert. Just because one of the car they drive with lousy HID or not done correctly they jump to the damn conclusion.

On the Sienna, my head light cut off point is further than halogen light. Even though halogen disperse effect allows the fuzzy image. A good HID project a range that is further making the point mute.

On my W211 the bi-xeon in standard setting projects an area about 20% further than halogen light. In fact, the bi-xeon provide further range than so called fuzzy image on the cut off of regular halogen beams.

If HID are so bad, it would not be a trend that automobile manufacturer is moving to. It has been used on aircraft for a long time.

USA today? If i believe everything that so called expert says, we would still be driving a model T.

PICTURE DON'T LIE. BUT PEOPLE WITH LACK OF KNOWLEDGE DOES.

stever · November 2004

Photos lie all the time. Besides the obvious photoshopping, it's easy to manipulate a scene just by the camera angle when you compose a shot. It's an old tradition.

James Healey does engender strong opinions now and then :-)

Steve, Host

chiaw · November 2004

I would like for you to prove that angle of my shot were photo shopped.

The picture was taken on a $200 el cheapo digital camera and was sitting on top of instrument panel on the Sienna. That's how the shot can be steady. My el cheapo toshiba digital camera does not focus well in dark since there was nothing in front of it to focus on (it was open space).

It take about 10 to 15 minutes from time the picture that was taken at fremont automall construction site to my house in mission san jose.

I was actually not happy with result of picture as there were too many ambient light getting inside the head light beam. Thus the picture would not be as dramatic as i would have hope.

Also, I found it quite amusing since from the shot of my camera it's more than clear it comes from same angle same distance.

I don't have the time sitting in front of my computer to photoshop picture to make a bogus story like typical journalist does to make his point (like Mr. Rather's report).

Truth is simply truth. HID is better especially if its OEM factory form. Fuzzy halogen? Sorry this is laughable.

stever · November 2004

That wasn't my point and I didn't intend to reference your photo in particular. But someone else could go to the same spot and take a similar photo from a higher or lower angle and wind up with different results from the shadows or whatever.

My point is that you can't just accept any photo at face value without considering the involvement of the shooters position, etc. That was true before air brushing became common, much less digital manipulation.

That's all I meant and sorry for making it sound like I thought you were faking the pics - I thought your photos were most helpful.

Steve, Host

scotty0820 · November 2004

I've been agonizing for weeks after driving both of these by myself, but when I finally brought her into the loop, she didn't understand my dilemma at all... She picked the Odyssey hands down... not even close in her mind. We're comparing the Odyssey EX with the Sienna XL w/opt #5 making them about $100 apart. Here's what she said:

1) She could feel the engine vibration through the gas pedal on the Sienna, but very smooth on the Odyssey.

2) She could feel the Sienna shifting through the gears, but this was undectable on the Odyssey.

3) Odyssey was much much quieter even with the second row windows down.

4) Absolutely hated the black shiny plastic finish in the Sienna. (subjective)

5) The Odyssey was much more responsive in steering capabilities.

6) Third row seat was much easier to maneuver in the Odyssey as opposed to the Sienna. We actually had to force the seat down with another hand to get it to go all the way down. The Odyssey is truly one handed.

These and really many more facts along with things like standard Tri-Zone air, 2 automatic doors, 6-CD changer, integrated sun screens, lazy susan really made it easy to decide. We liked the compass/EPA center, the vented 3rd row windows, and tire pressure monitor on the Sienna, but those small factor couldn't overcome the better feeling drive experience we had in the Odyssey.

Comfort and quality wise, I still see the pair as indistinguishable and miles ahead of the domestics.

I've got one dealer down to $27,500, about $1000 off MSRP. Still trying to go lower... we'll see.

jimb5 · November 2004

I was just at a Toyota dealer in NY and the saleswoman said that Lexus was working on a minivan.

thumper · November 2004

Ok. I'll say it for the third time. HID's are better. However, it's the particular implimentation on the Sienna that I disagree with. Reflective headlamps better than projectors? [ewt] made an excellent point that a lot of projectors you see on the road are gimped by US DOT regulations. They are capable of providing an excellent headlight pattern, far better than our current generation's best reflectors can do. C'mon now. If reflectors were *superior*, why is Mercedes wasting our time with projectors? Why is BMW? Does Toyota have a line on a scientific fact that the Europeans haven't caught onto? Are we being cheated for our $150k and getting shoddy headlights?

If your specific projector application is plagued with hot spots, that's a sorry testament to our regulations, and supportive of the statement "The Sienna's HID lights are better than [insert vehicle] Headlights." Not of a general blanket statement that "The Siennas lights are better than any projector HIDs"

If the headlight pattern is aimed such that it reaches where the "brights" go, it doesn't matter if it's halogen, HID, or a big maglite. You are shining light into the eyes of opposing traffic, and making yourself a hazard. You say the light isn't "concentrated" there. That's exactly the problem. You may not have enough light to return back to your eyes to see a good view of the road, but you can bet you're sending enough light to create a night blindness problem for someone ahead of you. Set your lights at 0, go walk 50' ahead, and look at your car.

Halogens aren't any better at this. But with higher lumens and a whiter light beam, HID's are more vulnerable to this problem than standard headlights are.

This is *exactly* the problem with reflector headlamps(and by extention, the old DOT standards which specified a lot of stray light). You can put yourself in a situation where there's stray light going above your pattern, but you can't really tell because the cutoff isn't sharp. Projectors have stray light too. But they have a lot less, and the cutoff is more distinct so you have a better idea of how far you can aim the lights before you create a problem.

Is the Sienna's cutoff sharp? No. Can you park the van 25 feet from a wall, and draw a sharp line at where your cutoff is? No. It's a soft transition from light to darkness. So now where do you aim the lights in order to prevent too much stray light going into the eyes of traffic? How much is too much? It's that uncertainty that is the problem.

Point a slide projector at a wall. You know *exactly* where the light stops. No question. Aim a flashlight through a slide, and it's not so clear.

Anyone *not* think the "Lexus Minivan" would just be the Sienna Ltd with a few extra goodies and moved over to the next lot? Other than a few cosmetic changes, it's already got the look for it.

chiaw · November 2004

1. since i don't own a european head light. I can't tell for fact that projector are better.

2. I actually on numerous occasion had my van follow me home. The sienna head light although that much wider disperse pattern really does not done as bad of damage on blinding effect on the car in front of it.

The problem at least with all my projectors are due to the hot spot created by DOT regulation. Those are very blinding. The reflective disperse of sienna's head light is not as bad as being shot in the eye with one of the beams of projector hot spot.

I will reserve my judgement on projector light in general than. But at least in this point of time our DOT controlled projector head lights are more blinding than my sienna head light.

My statement is this. On SUV, the hot spot created by the projector is too much for any cars and oncoming traffic to handle. That's according EWT and my experience, we rarely has been flashed due to our sienna HID. But i got plenty of middle fingers with my other cars and my ex RX300.

chiaw · November 2004

i apologize as well. I just took it wrong and thought is was reference to my photo.

stever · November 2004

Thanks - have a great weekend. I'm staying home; it's too dark out in the evening to leave the house, LOL.

Steve, Host

mcase2 · November 2004

Thats intriguing. I have always been amazed at how smooth running and vibration free my 04 Sienna engine has been. On several occasions people leaning against the car and speaking to me through the drivers window could not believe the engine was even running until I had them lean in and look at the Tach. But, hey the ody is a real nice car and I'm sue you'll enjoy it.

chiaw · November 2004

This is very odd.

Item 1,2 is probably that car issue. Because my sienna and pretty much the ones i have driven are actually very smooth.

3. No, this is totally impossible. Odyssey is not quieter by any means. With 2nd row window down is even impossible unless you are not moving.

4. Hmm. There are only two color of interior available and none of them are black. One its oak, the other is stone. Unless someone is color blind, the plastic on the dash (the upper darker area) is light gray. No way it's black. In fact, it sounds like your are describing the odyssey's black interior,

6. Hmm, most likely specific van issue. My seat with one pull folds flat into the floor without any effort.

XLE sienna comes with two automatic door plus power rear lift gate. Adv. Sienna.

XLE pkg #5 comes with in dash 6 disc changer, integrated sun screen in all 3 row. Odyssey on the other hand only has two rows. Therefore adv. Sienna.

One more thing is that Odyssey EX does not have true tri-zone air. But it's actually standard on the touring and Sienna XLE and above.

Pricing is also very wrong.

XLE with pkg 5 is $35165 but comes with leather and DVD. But EXL with DVD is $31895. That's not $100 apart. Even if toyota is selling at invoice and odyssey is selling at $1k off MSRP, there difference is still higher than $100.

Unless you are comparing LE pkg #5. Which sticker at $28190, invoice is about $25185, you probably can buy it at $25500. The base EX is $28510, purchasing price is $27500. You actually has $2k difference on the two.

A fair comparison would XLE pkg #3 which MSRP is $31,265. Invoice is $27784, you probably can get it at $28300. A $800 difference.

amykkbc · November 2004

Does the Sienna have drive by wire? if not, then scotty0820's # 1 is true, and

scotty0820's # 2 is a well known fact in all toyota. A lot worse when the Sienna is down shifting, and I'll describe it as horrible and dangerous.

I also saw the black shiny plastic in the Sienna and hate it.

As for the #6, it's obvious that you never try the new ody.'s third row seat.

XLE with pkg 5 at invoice and EXL RES at MSRP is pretty close, isn't it?

mcase2 · November 2004

Why all the ranting? People who actually drive the Sienna love them. If the lady found vibration in the car she test drove who could blame her for not buying it, but I drive one every day and mines does no down shifting and its engine is extremely smooth and quiet. By the way, there is shiny black TRIM. Not my favorite feature. For what I paid the fake burled walnut or whatever it is supposed to be would have been nice.

stickguy · November 2004

If you reread the post, they are comparing an EX with (I think) an LE. He typed XL but It looks like that was a typo, so discussion of XLEs, powere lift gates, etc. are moot.

mcase2 · November 2004

Oh, by the way, the blanket statement "is a well known fact in all Toyotas and I'll describe it as horrible and dangerous" is really over the top. I have an 04 Corolla as well as Sienna and neither has any such problems with down shifting etc. Are you employed by Honda?

isellhondas · November 2004

People are funny. People don't buy cars because of the most (in my opinion)trivial things. They hear, feel, smell things that are non existant to most people. Of course, you will feel it when a transmission shifts! You HAVE to feel the shifts!

" horrible and dangerous" ?? Give me a break!

And, yes, I sell Hondas!

stewbaccachew · November 2004

hey all. It is so fun to not read this forum for a week and then come back to see what the hot issues are.

1. HID's - Love them ! Simply put, I can see better with them. period. I had them on my Acura TL and am glad the 04 Sienna has them. - Might add aftermakert one's to my MDX.

2. Tires - I have done plenty of research and have discovered some disturbing things. I have an 04 AWD (which I gotta have and do love). AWD comes with the run flat tires and no spare. I've discovered that a LOT of people have been stranded on vacations waiting for a replacement tire since the Toyota dealers don't seem to stock them. You can't really drive to far if the tire gets damaged. This is simply idiotic. Toyota has completely dropped the ball on this one. The wheel size is NOT a standard size, so you can't simply buy a cheap steel rim and tire to build your own spare. If you purchase a replacement RFT and rim at retail, it's gonna cost you like $700 to build a spare. Nice !. Being somewhat resourceful, I bout and OEM rim from http://www.wheelcollision.com/toyota.htm for $225 and found a brand new B380 Run Flat on Ebay that I wound up getting for $49. So I feel lucky that I built a real full size spare for under $300. But Again, why should I have to do this? lame. I'll keep in in my garage most of the time, but when I make the 400 mile drive to Disneyland, or up to tahoe, I'll toss it in the back for peace of mind. How can you tell your 4 year old that Mickey will have to wait for 3 days while we're stuck in the central valley of California waiting for a tire. Bottom Line. Run Flat Tires are a joke. Even The local Bridgestone dealer stated that to me. PAX has the same darn issues.

OK,

Out of curiosity, I test drove an ODY the other day. Hell of a Nice Van. Do I like it better than my Sienna? No. Do I like my Sienna Better? Well, I guess since I own one, i would have to say yes, but marginally. They are both Solid. The ODY was slightly noisier to me. But you never know what biases you have, maybe i was hearing things. Definitely more feel from the road, but this is really a preference thing. I like the Softer feel of our Sienna for a Van. If I want more road feel, I'll hop an a sedan or the SUV. AWD was still quite important to me, so that still tips things to the Sienna. But for all you people comparing, you really have to go drive them. They're both fantastic. Anyone saying one is better than the other hasn't really looked objectively. Go see which one suits YOUR needs better. And if you can get away from RFT's and PAX, do it. UGH.

stew

heywood1 · November 2004

You are absolutely and totally wrong about AWD Siennas requiring special rims. They ARE indeed a standard size (17"). In fact, the rims can accomodate RFTs or non-RFTs. Your choice. Toyota puts the SAME EXACT 17" rims on the FWD Limited model as they do on all AWD models.

Which begs the question: If you decided to 'build you own spare'--which is a reasonable thing to do--why would you bother to put on an RFT? I suppose for $49, you couldn't pass it up.

carzzz · November 2004

6. Hmm, most likely specific van issue. My seat with one pull folds flat into the floor without any effort.

The very first time i fold flat the 3rd row of both cars, I do find the Ody is easier and require less effort than sienna, cuz you have pull/lift up the seat in order to fold but for ody you just have to flip it down!
it is just that you are really use to the way it fold and therefore it seems easy to you!

stewbaccachew · November 2004

"You are absolutely and totally wrong about AWD Siennas requiring special rims. They ARE indeed a standard size (17)"

Heywood. Then Find me a 17"x6.5" steel rim. You would be doing a great service to me and anyone else looking for a cheap spare.

I personally can't find one. Either can any Toyota dealer or Wheel/Tire Shop I've talked to. Struck out on the internet too. I personally don't think one exists. The only wheels that size out there are expensive aluminum rims, including the Toyota OEM's. So before you say that someone is absolutely and totally wrong, do a little research. If you find an inexpensive rim of that size, I'll eat my words and tip my hat to you. ;-). well, I may do that anyways.

stewbaccachew · November 2004

Oh, I fully understand that I could have not put a run flat on the spare wheel. and you're right, at $49, how could I pass it up. But I challenge you to find a steel rim that is 17 x 6.5" I've scoured the internet and talked to several dealers. If you can find one, I'd be pretty darn suprised. The nearsest thing people have been able to do is purchase a 16" steel rim and use a different tire to aprroximately reach the final correct diameter. I suggest do some research on the web to read about the problems people have had with getting the Run Flats Replaced while out on vaction and the problems creating a viable spare tire. Now don't get me wrong. we LOVE our sienna, but I think Toyota could have dealt with the option of spare tire a little better. If you do purchase their "donut" kit, by the time all the parts and the donut are ordered including the modifications to the rear deck kit, it costs over $700 from the dealer. That is a complete joke. So I feel for my $300 to get an OEM wheel with an OEM tire was a steal. But why the heck should I have to even worry about it? Toyota dealers should be REQUIRED to keep those tires in stock so people don't get stranded for days. Just a TERRIBLE policy. You would think when someone is dropping over 35K for a vehicle that they would have this one figured out. Honda Owners with PAX won't fare much better when they get stranded.

sportymonk · November 2004

Well, for my two cents worth. All I have is the regular hologen headlights in my I 2001 Impala and I think they are great. My only problem is getting the yahoos around here to even use their high beams of any kind!!!.. On the road from Raleigh to Rocky Mount (Hwy 64), the speed limit is 70 on a four lane divided highway and I will use high beams whenever possible at night. When somebody passes me doing over 70 I will flick my high beams off to let them see how dark it is and try to encourage them to turn theirs one. Then I flash mine on and off again. Result. 99.9% of the time they are content to travel in the dark with no cars in front of them! THEY WON'T EVEN TURN THEIR HIGH BEAMS ON! Then I have to wait for them to get far enough away so I can turn mine back one. I though of turning them on a little soon but that would just let them think (if they can) "That's why I don't turn mine on!"

This discussion about HID is silly considering most country folks won't even use high beams. Sorry if I offend someone but it is infuriating to have to travel behind somebody in the dark at 70 and they won't turn on their high beams and I can't.

amykkbc · November 2004

1st. we're not honda dealer/employee. we hate those greedy honda dealers. And we'd waited almost 2 years for the 04 Sienna.

Yes, the sienna is very smooth and quiet, much better than an 02 ody. until you want it to go a little faster.

Almost all auto transmission, both honda and toyota's, will down shift when you need more power. And all transmissions take time to down shift, but all toyota transmissions take a lot longer time to pause, calculate your situation, and then down shift. Hence you'll have a 1/2 sec. to 1 sec. gap that the car doesn't have any power at all when you need it the most. During that gap, you or most'll feel nervous because someone is almost hitting you from behind and you really need it to move fast but the car wants to stop, then you press the pedal more, then finally transmission down shifts, and suddenly you got a huge power that drags your car forward like craze and scares everyone on board. Then you'll have to release the gas pedal following the movement of the car. It's the unpredictability that make the situation dangerous. This is not what I feel but the fact.

If you never down shifting the sienna, you're lucky. And just make sure never step on the gas pedal too hard:-)

isellhondas · November 2004

You know, the kind you "hate"?

And I totally disagree with your post. In all fairness to Toyota, the situation you describe is overblown. I have driven a lot of Toyotas and even owned a couple and I have NEVER experienced what you describe.

mcase2 · November 2004

Stew, its nice to hear a sane and objective voice. The Sienna rims are NOT standard, is that right? You seem to really know your stuff and I think its important for you to make this absolutely clear because the rumor bouncing around this and other sites is that the Sienna is standard while the Ody is not. If you get the run flats (all wheel drive standard I gather) your stuck. Is that the deal?

mcase2 · November 2004

Have you ever owned a Toyota? Both mine take off when step on the gas. No kidding I don't say this jest to be contrary. Believe me if I had this problem I would not keep to myself.

stewbaccachew · November 2004

Yes and Yes.

If you purchase an AWD model (which I did, and I certainly want AWD), then you get run flat tires and NO spare.

Honda will have similar problems with their idiotic PAX tires. In fact worse because you have to use special rims.

I'm not sure what the word "standard" means. If you mean standard because you can mount either the Run Flats or Standard Tires to the rim, they you're correct. But the SIZE is odd. Here is the deal. I can find only one other car that ever had 17 x 6 1/2" rims. A Mitsubishi. It'a not the 17R that is the issue, it's the 6 1/2". Nobody seems to manufacture a 17 x 6 1/2" steel rim that one could use for a spare. You HAVE to buy a more expensive aluminum rim. Either a custom or an OEM rim. And they're all expensive. One could purchase a 16" rim and use a different size tire, but the overall radius would be off by .6 inches. This is hardly desireable.

This is compounded by the fact that the dealerships are NOT stocking the tires, they have to order them which takes a few days. So, if you're a few hundred miles from home and the tire is damaged, you are screwed. And to add to the frustration Toyota dealers are being instructed NOT to repair run flat tires. Why, who knows.

After finding all this out I decided to build my own spare for long trips. Afound town, it't no big deal but on a trip, it could be devastating.

There is some great information out there on this.

ewt · November 2004

"Almost all auto transmission, both honda and toyota's, will down shift when you need more power. And all transmissions take time to down shift, but all toyota transmissions take a lot longer time to pause, calculate your situation, and then down shift. Hence you'll have a 1/2 sec. to 1 sec. gap that the car doesn't have any power at all when you need it the most. During that gap, you or most'll feel nervous because someone is almost hitting you from behind and you really need it to move fast but the car wants to stop, then you press the pedal more, then finally transmission down shifts, and suddenly you got a huge power that drags your car forward like craze and scares everyone on board. Then you'll have to release the gas pedal following the movement of the car. It's the unpredictability that make the situation dangerous. This is not what I feel but the fact."

The only time my Sienna has a longer than normal lag downshifting is if I'm going at very slow speed, lift completely for more than a second or so, then try to accelerate hard. It takes a 1/2 second or less to downshift, which is slightly longer than most cars I've owned in the past. Otherwise, it is no slower at downshifting than other cars I've driven and I certainly don't get a "huge power that drags the car forward like craze (sic) and scares everyone on board" every time I downshift. Other than that one anomoly that I might encounter about once every two months, the engine/transmission combo on the Sienna is one of the smoothest ones I've ever driven.

melamed · November 2004

My wife and I are about to put a deposit down on the Sienna XLE Ltd. AWD model. As many posters have noted, if you get the NAV package, you get only a single in-dash CD player. My question is, does anyone know if this CD player will play mp3 CD's, as the number of songs I could squeeze on the single CD might nearly make up for only having one CD available at a time. By the way, the Toyota salesman did not know the answer to this question.

Thanks alot.-melamed

heywood1 · November 2004

I will grant you that a 17x6.5 steel rim is probably a rare bird. However, 17" alloys are very common. I misinterpreted your definition of 'standard size.' I consider only metric or 18.1" measurements (like TRX or PAX) to be non-standard. Toyota does sell a steel rim and spare for the AWD model, but I don't have any idea how much it is. I'm not willing to sacrifice cargo room for it anyway.

I bought (stole) four OEM Toyota 17" rims on Ebay for $100 each this past summer. Just this week I mounted new RFT snows on 'em.

heywood1 · November 2004

NO and NO.

If you visit the Tire Rack website, you will find at least a dozen 17" (alloy) rims that will fit the AWD (and FWD Limited) Sienna. These rims will accept both run-flat and non-run-flat tires, as well as different brands of either.

PAX is a proprietary technology developed by Michelin. Whatever its merits, it has a unique circumference that will only accept a Michelin PAX tire.

stever · November 2004

I understand the beads are different diameters on each PAX tire, so I assume the wheel rims are also asymmetric.

I guess those eBay wheels were alloys? When I got a full size spare for my van, I paid $54 for a new universal steel rim and they put a used tire on it for that price.

Steve, Host

denver5357 · November 2004

Actually, the original post seems to explain what we experienced on our Sienna test drive. When my wife drove, the Sienna overshifted repeatedly. I couldn't figure out why, but it was noticeable and annoying. Maybe this is it. It didn't do it to me, but maybe I drive differently.

thumper · November 2004

The problem is well discussed on one of the Sienna boards. The particular size of the Sienna's 17" tires is unusual, and is not easy to find. Yes, you can find new 17" wheels that would fit the Sienna (but likely changing wheel widths) to fit more tires, but that requires planning ahead. The issue in question is getting a flat on the road, pulling into a tire shop, and being unable to get a replacement tire (RFT or otherwise) that will fit your wheels. The FWD guys are experiencing similar problems because even non-RFT's are hard to find in-stock.

As for a spare, I think someone got the 16" wheel and tire to match the stock XLE(?) rims as a spare. He figured the outer tire diameter was close enough for spare duty, and the tire size was a lot more common.

--> Andy

doug889 · November 2004

I just bought a 05 fwd Sienna XLE Ltd with NAV/RES. No, neither the cd player nor the DVD player in my 05 XLE Ltd plays MP3 cds. I tried it and you could even find teh info in the Toyota website. But you can player another cd in the DVD player too. I am trying to copy music into a DVD-R disk to see if it will play in the DVD player. If it does, a single DVD-R disk can hold more songs than 6 regular cds. There is no room under the passenger seat to install an after market cd changer. I almost bought a Ody Touring but did care for the quality of the interior materials and the PAX tires. I had a 99 Ody and a 02 Acura MDX before I bought the Sienna. The Ody may handle better and has more road feel. But I prefer Sienna's ride, so comfortable. I don't need to feel every little bump on the road when I drive a van.

tasso · November 2004

Our Sienna Nav does play DVD-R back up movies, therefore it probably will play the 1000s of songs you can burn on a dvd-r.

heywood1 · November 2004

Yes, the 17" wheels I purchased on Ebay were OEM alloys. They were brand new and had been removed from a Sienna Ltd. $100 each. I couldn't believe my good fortune, as I think they retail for around $400 each.

Of course, the seller didn't help himself by misspelling 'Sienna' in his auction heading. I was the only bidder.

I have details of snow tire size and cost in 'Problems & Solutions 2004.'

heywood1 · November 2004

Depends on your definition of 'hard-to-find.' Certainly, not every Mom & Pop shop is going to have these in stock. But a quick check at the Tire Rack for 'Sienna FWD LTD' shows thirteen available tire options--both RFTs and non-RFTs--ranging in price from $68 to $212. I maintain that 225/60-17 is not a special size.

sav · November 2004

trying to pick the right sienna trim level gets very confusing.

Anyone knows what a sienna model trim level would most correspond to ody EX-L and EX-L Nav/RES? Thx in advance.

heywood1 · November 2004

The Sienna XLE should be compared to the Odyssey EX-L, (with or without Nav/RES) IMO.

stewbaccachew · November 2004

yes, you hit it on the head. you have to buy an Alloy Rim. The spare kit that Toyota sells is a joke. It's a donut, so why bother. I too don't want to take up cargo room. The only reason I built the spare is to toss it in when we go on a long trip. If anything at all happens, I can at least toss on an OEM rim wiht an OEM tire and deal with the mess after I get back home. We have a Thule Box for the top of the car for all our stuff, so giving up part of the back isn't too bad.

I just think that they should have given us an opetion to have an inexpensive steel rim. but whatever. You're like me, you used your resources and found a great deal !

And I definitely feel that because of this issues that ALL toyota dealers should be required by the parent company to stock the tires.

Some other folks really needed to be warned about this though.

stever · November 2004

Like other stuff you toss in the back of your van, it's best to secure that spare so it doesn't become a flying projectile in the event of an emergency stop.

Steve, Host

hansienna · November 2004

Odyssey trim levels are much simpler and more straight forward than Sienna.
     I have NEVER seen a Sienna XLE that did not have as a minimum the leather (option 13 in Edmunds @ $3,000). That puts the Sienna XLE with leather $32,590 while the Odyssey EX-L is $30,810.
     As confusing as Sienna options are, the DC minivan options are even more complicated.
     Odyssey EX @ $28,510 remains my first choice of new minivans.

lghong67 · November 2004

Hello,

Has anyone used a service called CarBargains to purchase his or her vehicle? If so, what was your experience? They claim to do the dirty work of negotiating with nearby dealers by means of a bid process.

Thanks in advance, LH

stever · November 2004

Sounds similar to Using a Car Broker to Buy Your Next Vehicle.

"A consumer can often get similar deals by simply calling or e-mailing a dealership's fleet or Internet manager and negotiating prices through them."

But a broker avoids the hassle....

Steve, Host

chiaw · November 2004

#1. Wrong. Both Sienna and Odyssey uses electronic throttle.

#2. Sorry. Toyota automatic is by far the smoothest of all japanese manufacturer. I have owned more than enough honda/acura/toyota/lexus.
This is especially coming from a total disaster 5 speed automatic from TL. Toyota automatic does not shift excessively.

#3. Sorry to burst your bubble. There are only two color interior on the sienna. THERE IS NO BLACK.

#6.?? Please read more carefully. The original post states that sienna 3rd seat does not folds perfectly into the space. I am stating other wise. What does this has to do with Odyssey?

I spend a month going back and forth on whether to trade in my 04 limited for a 05 Odyssey touring. Spend so many time on both vans, I am fully aware what each van can do.

BTW, i did took pictures of W211 Xeon vs Halogen, as well as 3rd seat folding on the sienna. I just misplaced my USB cable. will upload as soon as possible.

Yes, its close. But XLE does comes with more feature than EXL+RES. Need I point out the missing power rear hatch? missing 2 115V output?

chiaw · November 2004

The rims are standard. The tire on the other hand are slightly harder to find due to its odd size. But this is still far better than honda's speical rims and tires that has no alternate.

cherm1 · November 2004

A close match to the EX-L is an LE with package 6 and getting leather as a stand alone option (about $1500 extra).

You can also get an LE with package 8 and stand alone leather which would approximate an EX-L with Nav.

There are still some differences between the two vans, but they were about as close as I could get.

Just ordered the first of these two after many test drives and after much consideration.

mcase2 · November 2004

I agree with most of what you say. I own a Sienna LE. Chiaw, there is Shiny black plastic trim on this level. Honest my stereo control area looks like Darth Vadar.

Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

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