Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

impact01 · November 2004

Actually, I saw one XLE without leather last December in MD when I was looking for a FWD LTD. So, they do exist. Also, the dealer can always special order one. With close to 170K Siennas being produced a year, I am sure pricing will be good too.

chiaw · November 2004

you meant the vent and the hvac control? Those are not that bad. Actually it does not even look cheap. It actually looks better than honda's depressing grey.

chiaw · November 2004

Sorry, there are currently two XLE in my dealer in fremont ca that has cloth in stock, one is blue mirage, the other i believe is deser sand as of last night when I drop of my van for the recall.

For $1700 difference you got more equipement on XLE than EX-L.

1. Power rear hatch (missing in EX-L)
2. 2x 115V outlet
3. True tri-zone automatic temperature control (EX you can only change the fan speed)
4. No window shades- comes standard with leather.
5. No power passenger seat.

thumper · November 2004

LE #6 is missing a power driver-side sliding door, power sunroof, 6-cd changer, and color keyed mirrors. (Compared to an EX-L)

LE #8 is a RES model, not Navi (unavailable with the LE).

--> Andy

mcase2 · November 2004

Yes it is not bad. And the interior of the Ody is unquestionably less refined

hansienna · November 2004

YES...if fake wood is considered a mark of refinement.
Many of us do not like fake wood and prefer the Odyssey interior that does not have the fake wood of the Sienna.

thumper · November 2004

There are other missing "touches" in the interior. The lack of a leather steering wheel in the EX-L is just baffling. (although the non-leather wheel is ok, still. C'mon!) Things like that would've helped make the interior feel less "Grown Up Civic".

But yeah, I don't like the fakey plastic wood either. I actually prefer the XLE wheel to the Ltd wheel for that reason.

--> Andy

chiaw · November 2004

fake wood is still better than cheap plastic.

The entire odyssey dash plastic are worse than Sienna. The HVAC control buttons on the odyssey with chrome insert looks good, but it actually very cheap to the touch (rough). Although the Sienna has shiny black hvac buttons, it's a huge step above odyssey rough depressing grey plastic.

The leather in the odyssey is also worse than Sienna's leather.

I will live with fake wood instead of entire van covered with cheaper plastic and leather. At least toyota took time to finish the plastic inside the van.

thumper · November 2004

Actually you'll find that the Euro sedans go for a matte finish on their plastics rather than shiny & slick. That's the complaint people have about the Sienna's finish.

Not that it matters, it's all plastic. It's down to personal taste.

--> Andy

rollingdh · November 2004

I don't any experience with this type of engine. But I have to let everyone knows that the price to pay to get the model with a VCM engine is not worth it. VCM engine claims that you will save approximately 12 percent on gas when in used at on city driving and when on idle. That 12 percent boils down to extra one mile to a gallon on city driving. On high ways VCM engines gives the same mileage consumption as a regular 3.5 CC engine. So is it worth to pay the extra thousands of dollar to get it?

amykkbc · November 2004

Those buttons are not shinny!
If you did spend a month going back and forth, how can you miss the big shinny black plastic? The very first interior picture of the Sienna in Edmunds will show you shinny black plastic 50 times larger than those buttons:-)
May be you were concentrating on your printed wood pattern too much:-P

mcase2 · November 2004

Its not the fake wood. LEs don't come with it anyway. An example of what I mean would be the fold down tray. On the Ody its a single molded piece of gray soft plastic without any edge trim. On the Sienna the tray is neatly trimmed with harder more finished material either the fake wood or black plastic. The cup holders on the Ody tray are simple holes that are not likely to hold any cup truly stable. The cup holders on the Sienna are equipped with an ingenious, and I might add, very effective system of tabs that firmly grip any cup that is inserted. It also has a wonderfully useful compartment for pens, tire gauges, keys, etc. This sort of difference is repeated throughout the interior

hansienna · November 2004

The Odyssey is much nicer than the Sienna. The Odyssey EX cloth feels much more expensive than the drab, cheap feeling cloth of the Sienna LE.
I like the Taupe cloth interior in my 2002 T&C LX better than the cloth of the Sienna LE. The pre-2004 Sienna cloth looked and felt nicer to me than the cloth seats in the 2004 Sienna.
Fake wood not in Sienna LE? I will have to look more closely as it seemed to me all Sienna but the cheapest CE had fake wood on the dash.

cherm1 · November 2004

Scotty,

You make a key point - drive the two vans a couple of times, back to back if possible.

My wife and I went through the exercise over a three week period. Here's what we found:

1. Odyssey responded more quickly overall, steering, braking, suspension were more carlike.

2. For my prospective passengers, Sienna was overall more comfortable inside. Brought 2 of my 3 kids along (8 & 12). They preferred the seating in the Sienna.

3. Driving position of the Odyssey was quite uncomfortable. After the 1st test, I asked the salesperson if the steering wheel telescoped outward. I was amazed and disappointed that it did not.

I did not mention this concern to my wife as to not bias her before she had a chance to drive the Odyssey. She wife drove the two vans after I did, and noted that her shoulders would be hurting if she had to drive the Odyssey for an extended period.

Ultimately, the driving position issue persuaded us to buy the Sienna.

mcase2 · November 2004

Great, enjoy (I mean it) your Ody. Your financial plans makes sense.

chrisk1 · November 2004

Can you please tell me what is telescopic steering wheel and its advantages.
Thanks
Chris

stickguy · November 2004

telescopic means it adjusts in and out (in addition to tilt, which is up and down). The main advantage is you can more easily find a comfrotable drving position, without having to stretch your arms way out to the wheel.

used to be only on high-end cars, but has more recently been found on main stream cars.

thumper · November 2004

Not only does the wheel adjust "up and down" (tilt), but on the Siennas they can adjust "in and out" (telescoping). Helps to find a good driving position because you don't have to sit close to the dash (or far away, depending on your build).

Odyssey has adjustable pedals (Touring only) which sorta has the same effect, since you can move the pedals in and out to accommodate your position relative to the wheel. But it's only on the highest trim.

chiaw · November 2004

Not exactly. The reason why plastic on european cars are cheap is because they are made of recycle plastic and are designed to be 100% recyclable. Hence the cheapness of its interior. I had unfortunate even of putting a post-it sticker on the dash and left it out there under hot sun for couple days. It left a permanent mark on my E39 dash.

chiaw · November 2004

excuse me. The HVCA shinny plastic is very small. It contains the temerpature settings, hvact buttons. Not the entire dash area. And this is not related to interior trims the original post was discussing.

This piece sit so low that is does not really reflect sun light to be shiny.

chiaw · November 2004

huh?

Have you sit in the EX cloth or LX cloth?

LE cloth is slightly better than LX cloth. XLE cloth is slightly better than EX cloth.

Why are you insisting on comparing a LE to an up level EX instead of LX?

isellhondas · November 2004

You should really preface your comments by saying this is your OPINION. Someone else may feel the opposite way. Pretty common.

chiaw · November 2004

wow.

this is different than i expected.

I actually like Odyssey's driver seat and position better than my sienna. Sienna's driver seat is too flat.

chiaw · November 2004

the same should apply to HANSIENNA's comment.

He was making a statement as well. If you want to become a watch dog for posting a statement, use the same standard on your honda supporter.

Just because you sell honda, you should not apply bias standard on posts.

I fail to see HANSIENNA statment is more opionated than my statement.

amykkbc · November 2004

Ohh,,, Pardon me!!!
I think it was "chiaw" that didn't see this big shinny black plastic in original post, and this guy even believe that this big black shinny plastic is light gray and accused others color blink, see #1063, and introduced this HVAC button things, see #1106.

So you're not that "chiaw", sorry.
Now, we all agree that that "chiaw" shall really make up his/her mind and has to know what he/she is talking about.

stever · November 2004

What we are talking about is minivans, not other posters. Let's stick to the topic please.

Steve, Host

samnoe · November 2004

Hansienna,

True, the Sienna LE comes with the black plastic trim standard, but there is a wood option for 2-300 bucks. Most LE's on Toyota's lot in my neighborhood do have the wood trim.

About the telescoping steering wheel in Sienna,

While it is an excellent feature, I find the steering wheel in the Sienna not tilting enough to a higher position. When I push the power drivers seat up all the way (I like to sit very high) I can't see the gauges. The steering wheel is blocking all the gauges.

I actually tried to lower the seat, but the panel around the gauges is very high too, and is blocking my view to the road.

It's very sad that some safety features are offered in top models only. I would recommend Honda to bring adjustable pedals down to lower trim levels as well (My lowly '02 Ford Windstar have it!) and Honda/Toyota to also bring rear backup sensors on lower models. You can leave front sensors, HID lamps & laser cruise for the Limited models.

chiaw · November 2004

Where is the big black plastic? The HVAC control is just a minor portion of the entire front dash. The orginal post was dead wrong. Because sienna does not offer a black interior trim. In addition, the HVAC sits low on the dash and there is no light for it to be super shiny that would be distracting.

Show me where that big black plastic trim is? If you are talking about index card size out of entire dash, then it's a joke right?

thumper · November 2004

Regardless of the reasoning behind the European cars using "cheap plastic" it still stands to reason that when comparing plastic vs. plastic, some people are going to perceive plastic that "looks like" the plastic used in a Volvo, or BMW, or a Mercedes, as "high end". And for the most part, the plastic they use doesn't have a slick oily look to it, nor does it show every little fingerprint that gets on it. Does Lexus use the same finish? I don't remember my neighbor's LS having the same look to it. (but she no longer has it, so I can't run over and check)

Like I said, plastic is plastic. Whether it's shiny, matte, fakey wood, or zebra print, it's still plastic. It's personal preference.

--> Andy

thumper · November 2004

http://autos.yahoo.com/newcars/toyota_sienna_leawd_2005/16405/sty- le_photos.html?refsrc=offnetwork%2Fcpc%2FPI

Ugh, I hate long URL's.

I'm guessing that they're referring to the black plastic on the door panel armrests, down the sides of the center stack (areas which would be wood print on the XLE's) and maybe some of the buttons. But I'm only guessing since I didn't shop for an LE, I only went inside XLE's.

But c'mon. Just the side trim pieces on the center stack are hardly "an index card".

--> Andy

chiaw · November 2004

i stand corrected. That does look ugly and out of place.

chiaw · November 2004

Acutally owned lexus previously as well.

The RX300 actually has same plastic trims through out the cabin, other than the darth vader pieces on the HVAC and radio.

The cheap plastic i was refering too was in general where the dash board, the trim pieces on the side of doors, and panels. Odyssey plastic is just cheap and not trimed as neatly as sienna.

thumper · November 2004

I agree that the "generic" plastic pieces on the door panels and such feel a little too much like my old Pontiac Sunbird.

"Darth Vader pieces" Heh. I'll have to remember that one.

--> Andy

rorr · November 2004

Thanks for posting the pictures. I was beginning to get the impression that chiaw had never seen a Sienna without the wood trim pieces and really didn't know what black plastic trim pieces were being discussed.

Chiaw, look at every wood trim piece in your Ltd. Now, envision that trim piece is hard, BLACK, shiney plastic. Since the wood trim pieces are larger than an index card, obviously the black plastic is larger than an index card.

The problem I have with the black plastic is that it looks VERY shiny (like black lacquered funiture), is as smooth as glass, and will likely show EVERY fingerprint. Personally, I hate it. The problem is, my wife is no real fan of wood trim, fake or not.

I like the Darth Vadar reference....very descriptive.

thumper · November 2004

I wasn't fully aware of the black trim myself, since we were only shopping for XLE's and Limited's. It wasn't until I read some references on the boards and in the C&D Minivan Comparo that I started to see what was amiss in the LE's.

--> Andy

isellhondas · November 2004

And I'm used to it. What one person thinks is tacky (like a gold kit)someone else will think as classy.

" Oh, look at that tacky phony wood on the dash"

" Honey, doesn't that wood look rich?"

"That shiny black plastic looks so nice"

" Yuck, that plastic reminds me of K-Mart"

" I love that color/steering wheel/tailights!"

" Oh that color is horrible, and those tailights are ugly"

Carry on....

dirkwork · November 2004

Good gosh, isn't there more to this discussion than the interior trim finish? I would think the decision would be more the "personality" of the vehicle, which includes performance features and style/options. I have not driven the new Sienna but the older ones were pretty mushy for a smooth ride. If that's your style, go for the Toyota. If you like more road feel and handling, go for the Honda.

Both of these vehicles have acceptable interior design IMHO. I've seen much much worse, such as the 2000 + Impala. A good value car overall, but the interior plastic, vega looking seats and especially the cheap looking dash and controls with its colored horizontal rib design theme about made me gag. Then there was the 80's camary's, with the faux luxury appointments and overstuffed seat cushions coverd in colored velore.

I appreciate the info on the spare tire and Run Flat issues, that was certainly useful information. How about a truce on trim materials for now at least?

Dirk

isellhondas · November 2004

Dirk, you would be astonished how such a small trivial thing to the masses can be a deal killer to others.

That was my point.

badgerfan · November 2004

Many of those who post here can rant on and on about the most trivial issues. You won't find much substance.

Occasionally a bit of substance will leak into the discussions, but this is by accident, I do believe!

thumper · November 2004

I'd be more worried if we had major issues to get riled up over. Both vans are good. So we're reduced to turning trim into a major flamewar.

As for the tires, here's the best summary I can come up with:

Honda - PAX Tire
(On U.S. Touring Models only.)

+ More "conventional ride" due to softer sidewall.
+ Can be more readily repaired for tread puncture
+ Higher speed/longer distance when flat.
- Proprietary design, single supplier of tires. (although at least for now Michelin promises ample supply of replacements)
- Special wheels preclude install of standard tires. Swapping with steelies will disable tire monitors.
- Potential issues with snow tires and/or chains due to non-standard wheel size.

Toyota - Standard RunFlat Tire
(AWD Models only)

+ Uses same 17" wheel as FWD models, can install regular tires
+ Can swap wheels with steelies for snow tires (needed on AWD?) without losing tire pressure monitor.
+ Tires available online from various retailers.
- Tires may say "Do not repair when flat", may have problems getting a shop to repair.
- Stiffer sidewall, possible harsher ride
- Very limited availability of RFT replacements, especially at random "Brick and Mortar" shops. Some limited availability of regular tire replacements due to unusual OEM tire size. May affect ability to find replacement tire if flat encountered while vacationing.

Hope that helps.

--> Andy

amykkbc · November 2004

Sour Grape?
Remind me the replys from Lexus, if I remember correctly:
"It's not a design problem or a defect because many other Lexus have the same experience."

cccompson · November 2004

Good summary on the two different tires, thumper, to which I would add only one thing:

The treadwear rating on the Sienna (240) is vastly inferior to that of the PAX (500). Also the Sienna AWD's tires have "B" traction and temperature ratings while, I believe, the PAX's are both "A" rated.

rford · November 2004

Shopped both the Honda and Toyota Sienna. Purchased the LE based on the preference for the telescopic steering wheel the Sienna offered; the reach to the Honda wheel was not comfortable. Additionally, since this vehicle is an extra one for us, the Toyota was several thousand less. Lastly, we thought we would camp in the back occasionally and the Toyota has a flat floor when all seats are down. Gas mileage (measured after first filling the tank fully after purchase, then refilling 300 miles later) over the first 300 miles: actual 23.0; trip computer 23.7 (about 40% in town and 60% highway)

heywood1 · November 2004

I've found treadwear ratings to be nothing more than an estimate--and hardly reliable. Also, they say nothing about handling, performance, wet traction, etc. Many buyers are too focused on treadwear ratings, because their only measure of a tire's quality is how many miles they get out of it. How much quality is there in a set of tires that lasts for 60,000 miles if you're afraid to drive on them in the rain?

cccompson · November 2004

Oh, I quite agree they are nothing more than estimates, ones that I have found (relatively
speaking) quite accurate.

Except for certain "high performance" tires, I have never owned a set of tires that I was afraid to drive in the rain.

Say what you will, the simple fact is that the tires on the Sienna AWD are not rated very well at all. I had some similarly rated tires on a '99 Odyssey and they were horrible, lasting less than 30,000 miles. Honda has addressed that problem and is now putting well rated tires on all of the Odyssey models.

heywood1 · November 2004

The Michelin MXM4's that came on my Volvo S80 are awful in wet weather. The Firestone Affinity tires that were OEM on my previous Sienna were even worse. I dumped 'em the second week I owned the van.

Unlike some, I knew going into the purchase of my AWD Sienna not to expect mileage miracles from the run-flats. Unlike most, though, I don't judge a tire simply on how long it lasts.

Tires for me are the way factory radios used to be for many people. The first thing you did was remove it and put in something better. I expect little from OEM tires, no matter what vehicle I'm buying.

With the Odyssey's PAX, if you don't like the performance of the Michelins, you're stuck. There are no replacement options--at least not at the moment.

thumper · November 2004

I don't think there are strict standards that apply to tire ratings (other than load, which I think is regulated) So I consider them little more than a "touchy-feely" opinion by the manuf.

Sienna's tire life issues are already known. We'll have to see if PAX suffers the same.

--> Andy

winterdriver1 · November 2004

Does anyone have positive or negative experiences based on driving the Sienna in adverse weather conditions, particularly in snow, ice and rain?

Thanks.

jimmylee1000 · November 2004

I have a few questions about the 2005 Ody Touring and the 2005 XLE AWD Limited Sienna:

1. They both state their radios are XM ready. Are they Sirius ready too? Can you go to Circuit City and have Sirius seamlessly integrated into each? Sirius carries the NFL and I love to listen while driving.

2. The Sienna comes with a jack and no donut spare. The other lower Sienna models have a spare that mounts under the vehicle. Can you buy and mount a donut spare under the AWD Limited XLE Sienna?

3. On the Ody, there is no spare. Will a donut spare fit in the space where the lazy susan is located if you remove it? I HATE those damn PAX tires.

4. Is the voice activated NAV system is the Sienna all set up, or do you still need to buy and install a mic with it?

5. Have they fixed the programming bug in the 2005 Siennas that caused the tranny to hesitate while making up its mind?

6. Does the learning ability of the Sienna tranny really learn how you drive and eliminate the hesitation if driven by only one driver? Sounds like excuses and BS.

7. HID lights sound great, but at $1,000 a pop, how reliable are they? I have burned out many headlights as I drive lonely pitch black roads a lot.

Some other observations: These run-flat tires are a pain in the neck. Try calling a tire dealer or Honda dealer and tell them you have a blown out PAX. I did. I even called Michelin's hotline 1-877-PAXTIRE. Good luck. This was a BAD MOVE. If I can cram a donut spare in the lazy susan area with a cheap jack, I will. It'll at leats get you by while you wait for a long time. PAX is not ready for prime time. If it does not catch on quick, all the Honda touring owners are STUCK.

I am in the decision-making mode and would appreciate input.

petl · November 2004

Interesting points/questions. Being an engineer is irrelevant. Test driving both of them should help you analyze many of your concerns. It will assist you in deciding which vehicle best suits your needs.

Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

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