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Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

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Comments

  • jsmath5jsmath5 Member Posts: 77
    Ody: 17.79

    Sienna: 18.11

     

    Now, with a virtually a coin toss, and the Honda having a better 0-60 time. Which one gets better gas mileage, on regular (cheap) gas, and makes more horsepower. Horsepower is what gets you off the line and on your way merging into traffic faster.

     

    Let me also toss reasle in there, we know who won that award....
  • vchengvcheng Member Posts: 1,284
    ... that it is torque that gets a vehicle "off the line", not horsepower.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Horsepower is what you read about, torque is what you feel.

     

    link

     

    Steve, Host
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    or what you don't when you experience hesitation after applying force to the accelerator pedal.

     

    sorry, i couldn't resist...

     

    seems most of this thread is now devolving into devoted point / counter-point with regards to fairly minute issues which have already been ferreted pretty well.

     

    isn't there something more novel to compare the vans on and discuss?

     

    maybe some team should toss rocks at these vans to simulate material "comming from the road surface" to identify which manufacturer's paint holds up better, or run some stop light fire drills to see which van can have their 2nd row seats pulled more quickly during an absurd emergency, or something else significant like those. ;)
  • greg_ygreg_y Member Posts: 26
    Where is the better 0-60 time? The Sienna had a 7.6 0-60 time in Car and Driver, and that was a heavy XLE Limited. If the difference is only a tenth or so don't even bother posting, on any given day either van may be faster. The Auto Consumer Guide tested the Odyssey EX at 8.3 seconds 0-60.

     

    http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/- 38134
  • impact01impact01 Member Posts: 95
    You keep proving how salespeople like to mislead with inaccuracies:

     

    Ody Touring: 4634 lbs @ 255HP P/W = 0.0550 HP/LB

    Sienna LTD: 4165 @230HP P/W=0.0552 HP/LB

     

    So, Sienna is marginally higher. I don't think for regular driving you'll ever see any difference between the two and also I don't think 0 to 60 times will be significantly different.

     

    Sienna runs on regular gas and develops peak torque @3600 rpm compared to say @4500. I have never used anything other than regular in mine. I don't think I've ever crossed 3500 rpm on my Sienna tach, so haven't used the peak HP @5500 rpm. The van cruises effortlessly below 2000rpm on highways at 65mph, IIRC. For 80mph the tach shows 2300 rpm or so, again IIRC. So, unless of course Ody is geared to be in the 4000s rpm in lower gears, one wouldn't see much of a difference in anything (merging etc.).

     

    Siennas do get comparable if not better mileage. Really, it is too early for any verdict on the 05 Odys. You hear in these boards people getting far below the Ody EPA figures. Sienna folks are even getting more than 28mpg on 100% highway driving, although my average has only been ~23mpg in mixed driving. I wish it was 25, but hey, I got only 17mpg with the 3.3L engine on my 93 T&C.
  • impact01impact01 Member Posts: 95
    you write:

    "seems most of this thread is now devolving into devoted point / counter-point with regards to fairly minute issues which have already been ferreted pretty well. isn't there something more novel to compare the vans on and discuss?"

     

    Don't you know? We go around in circles here! However, when someone says ACE structure is the best since sliced bread without evidence, it has to be responded to, particularly in light of sales misinformation. Also, did you know, people throw marbles at dummies during crash tests? That's novel, for sure! LOL.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    I'll stick to my theory that both vans are very nice, well equipped, good values, and surprisingly fast and economical for such a big vehicle.

     

    The differences tend to be more in the personal preference areas (styling, specific "gotta have" features, handling vs. ride).

     

    So, every buyer needs to try them both (and any other possibilities), and decide what they like best, and go with it.

     

    I can almost guarantee that no one else on this board has exactly the same criteria, in the same order of importance, as I do, so YMMV.

     

    And sometimes one key item is enough for a person to eliminate a choice, even if most other people think it is insignificant. Doesn't mean it isn't important to them though (or that they deserve ridicule).

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,435
    I've always been amazed by the wide spread that people report. Conditions must have a huge amount to do with it (hills/speed/drviing style). I don't expect phenomenal mileage with either one, but both should be better than what I get with a '99 Quest now.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • jsmath5jsmath5 Member Posts: 77
    Dynamically, the Sienna has matured nicely. Its 3.3-liter V-6 puts out just 10 fewer horsepower (230) and identical pound-feet of torque (242) to Honda's 3.5-liter in the Odyssey and returns better fuel economy (19 city and 27 highway versus 18 and 25). In a drag race, the Toyota will finish a car length or two short, trailing the Honda by 0.3 second to 60 mph and through the quarter-mile, but its times of 7.8 and 16.2 seconds are thoroughly respectable, and the Sienna always seems to champ at the bit. Even with eight passengers onboard, we had no trouble merging to freeway speeds on short uphill on-ramps. Let's call the power "more than adequate."
  • jsmath5jsmath5 Member Posts: 77
    That was 04 Sienna vs 04 Ody. They upped the HP to 255 and the Sienna is still 230 HP, paint your own picture. That was from Car & Driver.
  • scoutleaderscoutleader Member Posts: 18
    After 2 mos. of research, reading this board and others, and furiously emailing dealers, I am still undecided between the Odyssey and Sienna.

     

    One factor I'm considering, but may not be a deal breaker, is the 3500 towing capability of each van. Toyota says no package is necessary to tow up to 3500 lbs. Honda needs a pkg. which

    will not be available until February. Price is unknown, however a service tech estimated ~$1300.00 based on the towing package for the Pilot. Has anyone towed up to 3500 lbs on the Sienna? I don't expect to tow often, but with 3 boys, bicycles and camping gear, the situation may present itself during the summer months.

     

    My boys prefer the Odyssey, for the ease in entering the 3rd row. My husband doesn't care except that I make a decision soon. I've got Honda dealers down to ~$2200.00 off MSRP $99.00 doc fee on an EX. When you compare an LE w/the BZ pkg, the two vans are virtually identical in safety features, options and price. I've got a Toyota dealer quote for an LE w/ BZ pkg @ $26,050.00.

     

    I am dizzy with pros and cons on each vehicle. If someone has something to share regarding towing capability or anything else, I welcome your 2 cents.
  • thumperthumper Member Posts: 75
    Bear in mind that when you are given a rated towing capacity, that is almost *always* based on the premise that the towing vehicle is virtually empty. Throw on a pile of passengers and some cargo, and that towing capacity falls rapidly.

     

    It's true that the Sienna comes with the towing "pre-package" off the factory line. The Odyssey would be installed as a dealer option. Both vans likely would need to have a set of air bladders installed in the rear suspension in order to tow a significant load. This is not for load capacity, rather that with a low-slung minivan, you're going to be scraping bottom with a load. This is well-documented with the Sienna even with a 1 1/2" higher ground clearance. So likely both vans will have this problem.

     

    Depending on where you're going, a lot of folks on camping/trailer boards recommend you try to stay under 80% of your tow capacity when you're actually on the road. This will accommodate errors in estimating how much weight you're really carrying, and to have decent performance on the road, especially if you have to negotiate hilly terrain.

     

    Just wanting to be sure you know what you're getting into if you really need to tow all 3500 of those pounds.

     

    Beyond that, it sounds like you're gotten quotes for both vans similarly equipped for a very similar price. Go with what suits your personal tastes, they're both good vans.

     

    --> Andy
  • jsmath5jsmath5 Member Posts: 77
    Either van will require you to pay for a tow hitch, power steering cooler, transmission oil cooler, electrical harness. Basically, it will come down to which van you like best; don't even let the tow package be a consideration. Buy the van you and your family likes best, and fits your budget the best.

     

    BTW, they will not need to install anything in the rear suspension, both vans are rated for 3500 lbs, the Odyssey can tow 4500 on a boat with approved and rated trailer. I am unsure on what the Sienna book says about boats and 4500 lbs of tow capacity.
  • whsuwhsu Member Posts: 6
    Honda makes an excellent van. I love the packages, the third row seat (easier to fold) etc. But, here in the Northeast AWD is the way to go. Snow/Ice are coming very soon and only the sienna offers awd. In addition, Toyota in general has better quality than Honda. (J.D Powers). If I live in California, I would buy a Honda for the price. In Connecticut i would go with the Sienna for the AWD. Either way you can't go wrong.

     

    wen
  • impact01impact01 Member Posts: 95
    If you do the math, you would find 04 Ody had a slightly better power to weight ratio than the 05 Ody (0.0556 vs 0.0550 hp/lb). So, you will be incorrect as usual if you expected better 0 to 60 numbers from the 05 Ody, unless they had changed the gearing significantly.
  • birddog4birddog4 Member Posts: 7
    Like many folks on these boards, I considered both the Odyssey and the Sienna before making my purchase. I ended up chosing the Odyssey. What follows is why I made my choice.

     

    First, they are both very good vehicles, hard to go wrong with either. However, we had certain criteria for our van which made the decision rather easy.

     

    First, AWD would normally be very important here in Colorado. Mountain driving in the winter can be tough without AWD. However, we are keeping our GMC Yukon XL (which has 4 wheel drive), so AWD on a van wasn't an imperative. Front wheel drive is fine for 99.9% of the time around town. For the times when it is not, we've got the Yukon as a backup. We'll probably continue to use the Yukon for ski trips up to the mountains. Ground clearance can be pretty important when 12" of snow is dumped, so not sure how well a van would deal with that, AWD or not.

     

    Second, with 3 kids and 2 dogs, we wanted space to be able to seat the 3 kids in the second row, fold down the rear seats and put the 2 dog kennels in the back. This meant we had to have an 8 seat van.

     

    Third, we wanted dual power doors for ease of getting the kids in and out of the van. We also wanted leather as it seems to clean up from kid messes easier than cloth.

     

    Since the Sienna doesn't offer an 8 seat version with dual power doors (not to mention leather in an 8 seat version), the Sienna just didn't meet our requirements.

     

    The Odyssey comes in an 8 seat version with leather (EXL) and has dual power doors. The touring model is not offered in an 8 seat version, so that was not an option (we would have considered it if it had been available in an 8 seater, but the EXL RES fit the bill nicely).

     

    So, that was it. Case closed. For our particular situation, the Odyssey gave us what we wanted and the Sienna did not.

     

    I've owned the Odyssey for 48 hours now. It is my wife's van, I just got to drive it for the first time tonight for a quick trip to the grocery store. Very nice.

     

    Shoot, I meant to post this to the Sienna vs Ody board. Don't see how to move it. Maybe the host/admin can move it over?
  • bobolink65bobolink65 Member Posts: 3
    Just drove the Odyssey home last night. Great minivan! We bought the Odyssey EX with leather.

     

    The must have feature was heated seats which we can get only on leather seats. With that requirement in mind we looked at Quest, Monterey, Sienna, and Odyssey. The first 2 were iliminated because quality and interior design. It was down to Odyssey and Sienna.

     

    The deciding factors were handling, looks, interior design/quality, back seat entry/exit, vehicle high, and price. Odyssey comes out ahead in all these areas for us. Even having a Toyota dealer two blocks away could not compensate for the Sienna. For the price level we are willing to pay, Odyssey beats the Sienna hands down.
  • davenowdavenow Member Posts: 171
    "Either van will require you to pay for a tow hitch, power steering cooler, transmission oil cooler, electrical harness. Basically, it will come down to which van you like best; don't even let the tow package be a consideration. Buy the van you and your family likes best, and fits your budget the best."

     

    I think Sienna comes with power steering cooler, transmission oil cooler, heavy duty alternator/generator, and extra duty radiator already packaged in. I know someone here will correct me if I'm wrong :)
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    You are right, the Sienna, as do all Toyota's (excluding the Prius), come ready to tow. All that is required is the hitch assembly. Some should get their facts right before posting.
  • colemanr7colemanr7 Member Posts: 8
    Yep... all you need on the Sienna is a hitch and wiring harness... plus a brake controller if you are towing something significant (that has electric brakes).
  • dirkworkdirkwork Member Posts: 210
    Both vans will sag when towing for some reason only domestic vans seem to offer self-leveling suspension and a built-in air compressor for that and other uses.

     

    I see the new GM vans are not as fuel efficient as my '98 Olds, I get 22-23 city with some highway and easy 25-26-27 (conditions and speed variable) on highway trips.

     

    But then again I don't have all those bells and whistles like Nav, laser cruise, backup TV, DVD, etc. Somehow we survive!

     

    I'm going to sign off this forum, its all been said now its arguing!

     

    Cheers,

     

    Dirk
  • indy93indy93 Member Posts: 97
    Both are great!

     

    Sienna advantages:

     

    HID

    JBL sound

    Radar Cruise

    Telescoping Wheel

    MPG! 2 better than Ody/VCM on both highway and city

    Fit and finish (lexus) vs. Ody rattles and creaks (1st year)

     

    Ody Advantages:

     

    Voice command great for audio and a/c so-so for Nav

    2nd row seat comfort!

    Res 9" only slightly larger due to format

    Steering effort higher..road feel / firmer ride

     

    Ody driver seat is problematic for some. Basic design is fine problem could be lack of telescoping wheel to reduce stress on shoulder and upper spine.

     

    Sienna 2row does not recline enough to be comfortable.
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    It is a well known fact that consumer magazine guys do not test vehicles in a spirited manner like the car guys at Car and Driver, Road & Track, etc. So their 0-60 times are relatively longer for the same vehicles.

     

    To compare apples to apples, one must have one testing agency perform the 0-60 tests on vehicles being compared instead of comparing vehicles tested by different testing agencies.
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    The Sienna needs/wants premium gas to get its advertised maximum 230hp. This was also stated in the June 2004 C & D minivan comparo as well.

     

    However if you use regular gas, the engine electronics(computer) will adjust the timing automatically for the lower octane gas which will result in a reduction of an estimated 5 - 10 hp.
  • impact01impact01 Member Posts: 95
    You write:

    "The Sienna needs/wants premium gas to get its advertised maximum 230hp. This was also stated in the June 2004 C & D minivan comparo as well."

     

    How'd you know? I have the owner's manual and it says no such thing. Go back a few messages and read what exactly the manual says. C&D like so many review magazines is incorrect. I'd agree with C&D if they'd dynoed the van, but they had not. Someone had posted earlier based on *measurements* that the gas grade didn't seem to affect the ignition timing much at all.
  • jonb1jonb1 Member Posts: 4
    Hi. I have test driven all. I agree the MDX is overpriced and seems to have less headroom than the pilot. Everyone tells me get dvd after market cheaper and better, so one way to save dollars is skip dvd. I find Sienna too loose on handling so must rule out. Odyssey handling superior to both pilot and Sienna. New Odyssey seems like great minivan and best if one wants minivan. EXL has mileage of 20/28 vs Pilot 17/22. Both take regular fuel. EXL minivan seats 8 and Odyssey Touring seats only seven and touring requires navigation system/dvd but does have flat running tires which also makes for rougher ride. Odyssey minivan has side curtain airbags throughout, Pilot only has side bags for front which is lame. You must get mdx for side air curtain throughout. I believe Pilot and Odyssey both have stability system for safety. The Odyssey is my pick if one can stomach a minivan and does not need all wheel drive. Also, I believe minivan is safer than Pilot for rollover. However, Pilot rates high on roll over resistance but still positions very high and handles much worse than odyssey. Both have high ratings for other crash. My money is with the Odyssey. If you have a kid and one on the way, you will need to car pool probably in the future. I hear the Pilot is not that friendly for car pooling with third row. It is ok for occasional use but somewhat less friendly than minvan for groups of kids. Good luck
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    Both the MDX and Pilot are based on the 04 and earlier Ody.

     

    So it is not surprising to hear what you said about the 05 Ody.

     

    Even though I have an 04 Ody now, I am considering replacing my 10 year old second car with a new 05+ Ody when the timing is right. The Ody is just plain fun and "sporty" to drive in the way it handles and accelerates! The Sienna is just too quiet and not engaging enough!
  • jsmath5jsmath5 Member Posts: 77
    19/26 Sienna gas mileage 230 HP (Premium required to get max HP and mileage)

     

    20/28 Odyssey with VCM 255 HP (Regular 9all Honda models except S2000)

     

    19/25 Odyssey without VCM 255 HP regular gas.

     

    So how can the Sienna have a advantage, maybe you can explain that.

     

    Fit and finish....joke, they both are comparable. What about hesitation of the acceleration, that an advantage also? What about standard safety features? HID is also only on the more expensive Sienna models(XLE Limited).

     

    Honda did drop the ball on the HID.
  • jsmath5jsmath5 Member Posts: 77
    The Toyota Sienna does NOT come with a transmission oil cooler. That is a big missing piece of the towing puzzle, don't you think?
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    Interesting.

     

    You should also add that since premium gas cost about 10+%(extra 20 cents/gal) more than regular, that on a normalized cost(to regular gas)basis, the Ody's fuel consumption on regular gas is 10+% better than the rated numbers for fuel consumption/cost comparison vs the Sienna using premium gas.

     

    For clarity,

     

    1 gal of premium gas = 1.10+ gal of regular gas on a cost basis
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I checked the FWD Sienna XLE Limited - we say it gets 230 hp @ 5600 rpm on regular unleaded fuel. The EPA estimates for it are 19 mpg / 26 mpg.

     

    link

     

    Steve, Host
  • ewtewt Member Posts: 127
    Bzzzt for the Honda salesman. The Sienna does have a transmission cooler in the radiator. Try again. Maybe you could use a marble analogy.
  • petlpetl Member Posts: 610
    One last time. Unlike Honda, all non-hybrid Toyota's do not require anything but a hitch assembly for towing. Get your facts straight. Also, for the record HP is not everything. Compare where the torque kicks in between the 2 vehicles. That's where it counts when it comes to pulling and passing. I admire your loyalty to Honda (they manufacture good products), but Toyota is no slouch. They aren't the richest and most admired car company in the world for nothing.
  • indy93indy93 Member Posts: 97
    I cancelled my order for the Touring N/R today. Main reasons were poor initial quality and gas mileage as reported by current 05 Ody owners. 75% note fit/finish, poor mileage, or mechanical problems. Ody will be a great buy next year but I hate to bring cars back for non major warranty work with a first year model. Lots of owners also reporting rattling problems.

     

    Steering and throttle response better than Sienna. Sienna is excuted better and has a big advantage in MPG in real life. Each had great features the other lacked.

     

    Picked up a Sienna Ltd FWD #2(HO)Navi for #35,085.00 +T/L (socal) Seems like a great value. I can offset the steering response and handling with a good set of Yokohama's Sienna's have crappy highway spec tires!

     

    Both are great vans to pick between them is a coin flip! Thanks to all the Ody and Sienna fans for a informative chat and Kudos to the host.(Steve)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    75 % note "fit/finish" ??????
  • mconovermconover Member Posts: 4
    My wife actually found the Odyssey seats to be more comfortable than the Sienna's because they tilt forward whereas the Sienna's do not. Also she likes the peace of mind that comes with Pax as she does a lot of distance driving with the kids. Plus while Pax is expensive, you only change tires once or twice during a vehicle's life. The XM is also nice and it looks like from the XM press release that the Sienna would not get XM built-in until 2006. Lastly the rear windows not opening is a negative for the Odyssey but she cannot open the windows due to allergies anyway. She also liked the Odyssey interior better. So we're going with the Odyssey, although the Sienna is nice as well. My impression is it has a cushier ride but the Odyssey is a more sporty ride.
  • greg_ygreg_y Member Posts: 26
    jsmath5

     

    Where have you ever seen an article or a posting that a Sienna has to have premium fuel to get maximimum mpg. Please post a link... I'm waiting.
  • macakavamacakava Member Posts: 775
    June 2004 C & D states that the Sienna as wanting premium gas. I am sure that if one rsearches more, that the same statement can be found elsewhere. It I were Toyota, I would not mention it, for obvious marketing/sales reasons.

     

    Regular gas can be used as the engine electronics will compensate the timing for it. But there will be a penalty of some lost power due to it. However, many "non-car" guys will not notice it or care.

     

    Remember the MDX uses the same 3.5L Ody engine that is rated at 265hp in the MDX, vs 255 in the Ody. But the MDX recommends premium gas as the engine has been tuned for that premium gas.
  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,382
    The '99 Odyssey was the same way. According to Honda, there was a 5 horsepower "loss" if using regular fuel.

     

    As a "car guy," I neither noticed nor cared (except that I saved .20 per gallon over 70,000 miles).

     

    The vehicle never displayed the slightest sign of hankering for premium.
  • greg_ygreg_y Member Posts: 26
    macacava

     

    Wants premium gas for what? The manual states that you may want to use premium gas for increased performance. I know this because I read it. That is all that it says. You are pulling this stuff out of thin air about premium fuel increasing gas mileage.

     

    How many "car guys" drive a minivan?

     

    You state that if you research it more you are sure that you can find some support. So find it... Post links... I'll wait.

     

    And don't cross post to another posting by a car salesman or Honda fan, lets see an authoritative source.
  • davenowdavenow Member Posts: 171
    "...Plus while Pax is expensive, you only change tires once or twice during a vehicle's life..."

     

    Does this scare you (anybody)?... it certainly does me!...

     

    What salespeople say? or how people interpret?

    How long do you plan to have the van? 2-5 years?
  • ewtewt Member Posts: 127
    "How many "car guys" drive a minivan?"

     

    I do and I know quite a few others that do as well. My other car is a 475 hp sports car that spends, well used to spend before kids, a great deal of time at the racetrack. I had a big 4 door sedan that was still fun to drive (Q45) as a family hauler before finally getting tired of frequently running out of space, and loading kids in and out of the back seat. I decided to get a Sienna instead of a Yukburbhoe like 75% of my neighbors because it is a much better family hauler and I have no need to tow, which is the only advantage they have over a minivan. If you're not concered with what others think of your vehicle, a minivan is a much better drive than a SUV of comparable space.
  • ewtewt Member Posts: 127
    "Regular gas can be used as the engine electronics will compensate the timing for it. But there will be a penalty of some lost power due to it. However, many "non-car" guys will not notice it or care."

     

    There just doesn't seem to be much difference between regular and premium fuel in a Sienna. Many people inluding myself don't see any difference in mileage, and I've datalogged ignition timing using OBDII software with both, and there aren't any big differences between the two. I don't know of anybody who's done any performance testing, but I sure don't notice any difference other than the car feeling a little more responsive at throttle tip-in with premium. Honda salesman will undoubtedly continue to tout this as a big advantage of the Odyssey, but it just isn't true.

     

    Car and Driver also thinks the DVD player can't be played over the speakers and that the Sienna has a backup beeper, neither of which are correct either.
  • sportymonksportymonk Member Posts: 258
    have seen references several times but some don't want to listen to C&D. Here is another link

     

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-03-21-drive2_x.htm

     

    Article in USA Today by James R. Healey.

    Quote,

    "·How thirsty? FWD is rated 19 miles per gallon in town, 27 on the highway. AWD is 18/24. Premium fuel is specified. Toyota says regular can be used with slight, unspecified, losses in power and fuel economy."

     

    Doubt you will believe this one either. This has been ridiculous and too personal. Can we move on the more important issues

     

    People hear things and report them back. This isn't a court of law.

     
  • digiproddigiprod Member Posts: 12
    First I almost bought a Ody Touring with RES/NAV. Even had a $1500 deposit and van was ordered. That is before I found out that the Honda Ody Touring was the really the Honda ODDLY when it cames to tires. PAX ruined this sale for Honda. I cancelled few days before it arrived.

     

    Honda may have ruined my sales expereince with them for a long time going forward. NOT properly informing consumers the real FACTS, limitations, and costs associtaed with the proprietary tire technology that they and Michelin are FORCING on Touring owners. NOT a great move when consumers realize they have been cornered! But you can read all about PAX in the PAX tire RFT forum.

     

    My other reasons I like the 2005 Sienna XLE Limited over the Honda Touring are:

    Better smoother ride, much quieter, bigger moon roof, laser cruise control. sound system is much better in Sienna, nicer fit and finish in interior, back seats that fold into floor much better made than Honda Touring (no plastic latches that break), Roof rack comes with cross bars and was NOT "conned" into paying extra for such a simple item for a 40K luxury minivan, storage for spare under van, more comfortable seats, power seats on BOTH the driver and passenger side, better heated seat control, third row seats open out on Sienna unlike Touring, sun shades in BOTH the second and third row seats are standard, 115 volt outlet in both rows on Sienna not just the second row like Touring, nicer carpeting in Sienna, traction control in Sienna, extra storage in doors under armrests, but most of all no PAX tires with RFT are an option. Toyota RFT are standard size. Sienna has a spare even if it is a donut!

     

    I am very happy with my choice. Glad I had a choice on tires.

     

    The Honda ODDY (pun intended) is a nice van. Drove it twice. Almost bought it. As far as the gas mileage and handling both vans are close with Sienna having some things better as I mentioned. 2 miles per gallaon is subjective to real world driving and NOT great difference. The NAV in Toyota seems nicer, but I have NOT tried it as I have the Sienna. The Sienna uses the same NAV as the Lexus and it is extremely nice.

     

    Resale value may get hurt on 2005 ODDY, when Honda decides it lost too many sales to Toyota and others and see how many people choose the EXL instead of Touring. Then finally make PAX tires an option, not a requirement. Then YOU may have THAT ONE!

     

    A .3 in 0-60 is a "who cares" as this is a van not a sports car.

     

    NOT going to matter much when you are searching for a replacement tire on a weekend or live in snow area as there are NO snow tires for PAX.

     

    Sorry Honda, you blew it with me! My suggestion is get informed and buy what fits you. BUT know all the FACTS. For me 40K is a lot of money to spend. So be careful. Paying so much for replacement tires from ONLY ONE source was not a great idea. So I bought a Toyota and found it nicer anyway.

     

    Stephen A
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    You have posted the same thing several times.

     

    Honda...are you listening?

     

    No doubt there are other "Stephen A's" out there that may feel the same way.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    From the FAQ at Toyota USA (link)

     

    "You can find the recommended fuel octane rating for your vehicle on the back cover of your Owner's Manual.

     

    Our current model year vehicles have the following unleaded fuel octane rating recommendations:

     

    MODEL OCTANE

     

    <snip>

     

    Sienna 87*

     

    * For improved vehicle performance, the use of premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended."

     

    Steve, Host
  • impact01impact01 Member Posts: 95
    Some folks would like to believe C&D, USA Today etc. but have a hard time believing what the manual/ manufacturer actually says.

     

    Some of these obviously are Honda salesmen, who would rather mislead people than telling the truth. Clearly, 230 HPs are with regular and one may get a few more with premium grade.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I like the way the compare cars link works at ToyotaUSA.com - they send folks to the vehicle comparisons at Edmunds :-)

     

    Steve, Host
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