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Comments
(minivans) better. Way more practical if you have kids. and as of this week, we got a second. A 5 day old, and a 2 year old. LOVE the minivan, and LOVE the Sienna. Really liked the ODY, but the Sienna 2005 was a better value - IF you wanted auto on/off headlights. The is a must in our family, and it was sad that Honda made you buy the Touring to get a $150-200 option.
So our XLE AWD with DVD package 11, and auto on/off headlights, power doors all the way around was $37500, they gave us $2000 off. Spoiler and nice all weather mats included. For that price all I could get was a FWD Touring ODY with all similar options plus memory seats. If the Sienna had not had AWD,rather FWD, and they were both $37500, I would still have chosen the Sienna, because of the leather seating surfaces, and the fact that it does not have the "groove" down the side.
But those are all simply personal choices, they are both great, but in a BLIZZARD AWD still feels safer, and certainly gets around easier.
I wanted to trade in my Denali for an Ody as a second minivan, but my wife shot that down quickly. So I am getting the new Avalon.
Are you trying to say that Odyssey Touring does not have leather seating surfaces???
And what groove are you talking about?
"Groove down the side" = rear door track (incorporated into the window areas of the Sienna).
8-Seater:
Really, this is Sienna-only, since as you have mentioned, the PlusOne is not suitable for a child seat. The plus is the option for putting all three seats in the middle row, and having the back clear for cargo. The downside is a little less flexibility if you have a child in the 3rd row (can't easily pull out the middle row seat w/o having to throw it in the garage). The other downside is trim level. You're stuck with the LE, so you'll miss out on some of the luxury trimmings and options, but that may or may not be important to you.
7-Seat: This opens up more options with the Sienna and Odyssey. As you've mentioned, it's a little bit of a drag that the seat belt comes out of the wall on the Odyssey rather than the seat like the Sienna. You do get a little more flexibility with LATCH anchors in the back row with the Sienna, although I'm not certain if you can fit two child seats together back there... you'll want to check it out for yourself.
Based on seating flexibility you're probably going to end up leaning towards the Sienna. However, both vans are close enough that it'll be worth your while to at least check them both out to see which layout (dashboard, controls, etc) and prices you like the best. Depending on where you are, you may find one or the other being the bargain while the other has high markups. (I've seen it go both ways, so it's really dependent on your area)
Good luck!
--> Andy
I will definitely go with the Sienna since it's more comfortable and quiet on the highway... plus Honda is in the first production year which usually has more recalls or bugs in it! It applied to the 1999 Model which has more transmission failure than the latter years... My friend's 1999 Honda needs a new transmission which cost him almost $7000 to replace it last year with only 85K miles on it... plus most Honda owners drive more aggressive... causing accidents and I hate to drive the same brand as those people... the last ten accidents I saw on the road always involved with a Honda (Accord 5, Civic 2, CRV 1 and Ody 2)!
It seems like most Honda owners are most likely driving fast and rude on the road! Just the reality... So I don't want to be a Honda owner! Plus reliability... Toyota is still number one, then Mazda, then Nissan, then Honda...
I thought it was Passat owners who were pasted with that brush. Hasn't been my experience, but I can't recall seeing an aggressive minivan driver period in a while.
Steve, Host
Here in Europe its officially BMW drivers.
It seems like most Honda owners are most likely driving fast and rude on the road! Just the reality... So I don't want to be a Honda owner!"
Man, that's funny. You must make some interesting decisions in your life, if you base them on your anecdotal perception of reality. :-) "Honda Drivers: Menace of the Highways."
Who robbed your friend, why did he pay it, and more importantly.....why bother replacing it at all for that kind of money?
Also, where are you getting your reliability info from?
Never the less, a relevant point is made concerning reliability. I've driven both Honda's and Toyota's for the past 20 years. Both companies make reliable vehicles. However, my experience has been that very little goes wrong with a Toyota. I have had numerous things go wrong with my Honda's - some small and some costly. How this impacts one's decision depends on how important reliability is to them. Having been traumatized in my younger years with an unreliable Dodge Duster and then with a very unreliable and costly Peugeot 505, having a reliable car is a big part of my buying decision. That's one of the reasons why I went for the Sienna over the Odyssey.
Somebody call me when the discussion is back to minivans.
It's just a general speaking... may only apply to 20% of the Honda owners and 10% of the Toyota owners... It is a relatively comparison... not an absolutely speaking, please don't feel bad if you're not an aggressive Honda drivers... that means you're the 80% of people driving Honda safely... Good luck and no accidents happen to you!
I drove more than 500 different vehicles and owned more than 40 of them... I must admitted that Honda cars do retain a better resale value due to the demand and supply rule... so I suggested that if you don't keep your car for long ... buy a Honda and you will not lose too much money! Since the current trend of cars are getting sporty and more horse power... Honda will be a easiler selling car due to the current trend...
If you see most cars which are remodified on the road... I believe more than 60% of them are Honda... as a matter of fact... based on what I have seen on the road... more than 90% are Honda or Acura (Accord, Civic, Integra, Legend...). When I see those cars, it is so obviously that they are aggressive drives with big modified tailpipe blowing smoke and making a lot of noise... It's just the reality... we cannot change that! Maybe Honda Odyssey is the only exception with the Honda badge on it! But I just don't like to have a car with the same brand with those drivers... just like people don't want to stay in a nice house in a rough neighborhood...
Every studies show Toyota has a better long term reliabitity record than Honda... that's the truth and nobody can argue that...
Both great cars with no clear winner.
Anyway, go back to which van is better for you... it all depends on which is more important for you like subjective issues as appearance, color, taste and style! Or objective issues such as price, size, reliabiltiy, resale value and how long you will keep it for! Balance those things out, and pick which is better for your own needs! That would be my advice to choose the right van for youself!
If you are looking for handling and resale value, go with Honda...
If you are looking for long term reliability, soft ride and comfort, and more discount, go with Toyota...
Funny, my Sienna came with a factory installed navigation system.
We purchased a new '05 Odyssey after considerable research, etc. We have owned nothing but Toyotas (5) for twenty-five years -our trade was a 1991 Previa with 214,000k. It served us well and was generally a great vehicle. Our choice to buy a Honda was a well-considered risk for us.
Our new Odyssey rides well and although generally a bit more noisy ( road noise) than the Sienna we drove, our perception was that the ride was tighter and more predictable than the Sienna. It had more included options, plus safety and comfort features than the Sienna for the same "decent" price- if anyone considers $29,000.00 plus a decent price for any car.
Ok, I'll get to the point. We bought the Odyssey based upon our conclusion that the quality of the Honda van paralleled the Toyota. Now we have doubts. The Odyssey has been at the dealer for two weeks. After putting 500 miles on it in light driving, a problem developed with the driver's side door. At first, it would unlock but not open. Then it would open after the car was warmed up, but not latch upon being closed resulting in the door flying open as I turned onto the road in front of my house. Scary .
The dealer's first fix was to lubricate the latch mechanism with dry lubricant. This sounded less than permanent to me but logical. Honda America indicated that they would do nothing unless the problem could be duplicated.
The dealer could not duplicate the problem and was ready to send the car back to us when , luckily, I guess, ...the problem re-occurred. Coincidentally, the next day the service manager at the dealer received a fax from Honda America to check all the lock mechanisms of the remaining new Odysseys on their lot. Two other Odysseys on the lot and one they had sold had the problem. I immediately assumed that Honda America has discovered a systemic problem with Odyssey lock mechanisms. The driver who took me home from the dealer said the 04's had a problem with the sliding side doors. It is now two weeks later. The dealer is waiting for a fix from Honda "engineers." The problem seems to stem from water entering the mechansim and freezing a cable when temps drop. My concern is long term. I am not an engineer or a mechanic but I have enough hands-on experience with mechanical systems to know that repairs may or may not be effective, and if not designed-in from the get go, run the risk of failing due to not being part of the original design, untested materials failure, or improper or ineffective installation. OK, I understand that original parts run the same risk but I am wondering what these Honda "engineers' are doing. Are they fabricating a new part? Are they going to test it before they prescribe it? Is it going to come with a detailed installation procedure? And since the passenger door has the same locking mechanism, are they going retro fit that door as well? My greatest fear is that they will jury-rig something that will deteriorate and fail one mile after the warranty expires three years down the road. So, fellow Honda owners, although I own a Honda snowblower, lawn mower, and motorcycle, this is my first Honda auto, so please fill me in. Has anyone had a problem with their doors? Has anyone had a problem like this with a new Odyssey that Honda finally fixed?
Any suggestions are appreciated. Meanwhile, it appears that this problem involves more than these three vehicles so tell your friends who may be considering one.
Note: As of now I am less than thrilled with Honda America's response. They seem cool on the phone responding with stock replies when they have responded at all. One rep. actually asked me as a final question ( she was obviously reading it from a list ) : "What would you like Honda of America to do for you at this point?" .....Uh, hello? How about fixing my brand new van and returning it to me. And, oh yeah, extending the warranty to cover the fix past three years would be professional and go a long way towards keeping me as a customer. There seems to be little communication between Honda America's Customer Service division and the dealer. To be fair, the dealer has made an effort to keep us happy with a loaner car after a rough few minutes when I thought they were going to insist we take the van back after they couldn't duplicate the problem the first time. Nonetheless, we feel as if we are at the mercy of two separate entities now: Honda America and the dealer. We are already starting to see some tendency to pass the buck.
-MS
Can anyone give me any feedback on the ease of use and relevancy of the Toyota navigation system?
Forums like these will always attract those with problems.
I think I would stay away from an aftermarket navigation system although I'm sure some of them work fine.
No, if you read my first post , as frustrating as it is to buy a brand new van and not have it, you will see that we are only three weeks into this and Honda of America is still trying to figure out exactly what the problem is so they can devise a fix. I suppose every time they don't get it right, and send a car back out there, they end up suffering in more ways than one. I'm still betting their reputation is worth something to them.
At this point, I am really interested to hear from someone who has experience with Honda of America and/ or their dealer over a new vehicle issue, especially a new Odyssey . Thanks for your comments though, twins2
With my '86 Accord the problem was confined to a malfunctioning retracting headlight. This was a new design and they promptly replaced the defective part.
My '99 Odyssey repeatedly had problems with its sliding doors. Honda fixed them again and again and, eventually, they worked properly. The transmission failed at 40,000 miles (just out of warranty) and they covered 100% of the repair cost. Their doing so ensured I would remain a customer and I have since bought 2 Pilots.
All I can say is that in my experience, they strive to fix problems and stand behind their product.
It sounds as though your door problem is weather- related and they are trying to come up with a permanent fix. For comparison, try to imagine a GM dealer dealer telling you that their engineers were working on a warranty issue - I can't.
I buy cars based principally on two things - value and reliability. IMHO the value of Hondas cannot be matched. In some respects their reliability is superb. In others, well, at least they keep trying and that's more than I can say for many makes.
Also, loyalty is a two way street and they do seem interested in satisfying their customers.
What would you have bought?
Just curious...
Besides, considering the satisfaction that the customer received in this case....why wouldn't you trust that company for a future purpose?
BTW, Honda already has a reputation for producing a reliable vehicle. That's a good statement to spark some responses though....
I am picturing two Honda engineers in a parking lot in New Jersey with a hose, dousing an Odyssey and then waiting for it to freeze.
Meanwhile, the loaner Pilot , while not as roomy as we need, is serving us well.
By the way, for those of you who are looking for a quality alternative to Honda, I can go to bat for Toyota, despite the fact they have way too many option packages that add cost --as well as comfort. My Toyotas were friends to the end.
If you want to buy Ody, wait a few months and get the 2006 Model year, if you want to buy now... get the 2005 Sienna... plus the discount should be more on the Sienna (2500-3500 off from MSRP), or the discount will be more for the 2006 Ody as the demand cools off a little bit (from 1500-2500 off from MSRP)!
Just one: do extensive research, drive the two vehicles on long test drives and make up YOUR OWN mind. Nobody but you knows what features are important to you; there is absolutelly no OBJECTIVE way to decide that one of these two vehicles is better than the other.
amen to that.
We looked at both extensively ourselves. Personally, I liked the Sienna better overall for many of the reasons you list but, for the options we wanted on the Sienna (XLE w/package #6), I found I could get the Odyssey EX-L for about a $3k savings. For our wants and desires, the Sienna wasn't $3k better. Perhaps Toyota dealers in your area are more willing to deal (or don't have all the crap that Gulfstates Toyota puts on their cars). We wanted the Sienna but just could NOT justify that kind of price delta.
And for me and my wife, seat comfort in our Odyssey hasn't been an issue. She loves it.
Thanks,
Jason
Actually, that's factually incorrect. MSRP to MSRP or Invoice to Invoice Odyssey is cheaper than Sienna when comparably equiped.
MSRP:
Odyssey Touring: $35,010
Sienna XLE Ltd: $35,860
Invoice:
Odyssey Touring: $31,143
Sienna XLE Ltd: $31,972
Both can be purchased for couple % over invoice.
Agreed. I started out looking at 2005 Sienna and 2005 Ody, and expected I could get a better deal on Sienna since it was an older design vs. the brand new Ody. Wrong. The Toyota dealers around Denver were at least $2K higher for comparable models, and sometimes $3K or more. And they would not deal.