Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

dilbertzzz · May 2005

Anybody ever hear of a crash resulting from the driver running out of gas?

Well, no. But I was awfully embarrassed when my brother's 1969 Nova ran out of gas and coasted to a stop on the overpass in Springfield Missouri as I was driving it following the Uhaul while helping him move 33 years ago (or so). And it didn't help that I had told him it was riding on empty and that he was the one who insisted, "Oh, it'll make it!"

I never ran out of gas in any of my own vehicles! Yea, I'm cool... :shades:

rorr · May 2005

To be honest, I've run out of gas myself (once) in my own car for no good reason. Back in my college days (you know, back when you used to be able to survive for months on Ramen noodles and beer) when a tank of gas in my CRX used to last forever. Silly thing had been hovering around "E" for about 3 days and I was actually headed TO the gas station to fill up and just didn't....quite....make it. (About a 1/2 mile short).

At least I survived that harrowing ordeal although it took about all my natural innate talents and years of driving experience to regain control of the beast.

dae · May 2005

This is a dead issue.

No it is not. While a particular problem could have been fixed, that does not address the lack of quality control and sloppy assembly work that could have caused that. Where is the guarantee that the same assembly error would not happen again?

dilbertzzz · May 2005

Where is the guarantee that the same assembly error would not happen again?

I'm betting they fired the guy! ;-)

dae · May 2005

It's amazing we survived!

Some people did not.

Recalls are a good thing. I am an engineer myself, and I know that bad things happen. (i personally have known a guy who made a Delta III booster explode).

My point is that compared with my old Hondas that I drove to 200K and beyond with hardly any issues at all I am NOT thrilled about the NATURE of those recalls.

ABS sensors must be installed correctly, period.

Now I need to find an Ocean mist EX for a good price..

rorr · May 2005

The recalls in QUESTION are dead issues. The fact that a recall was issued means that Honda is aware of a problem, knows the solution to that problem, and is taking steps to apply the solution to that problem.

A 'non-dead' issue would be one in which there is a problem for which Honda either is not aware of, has no solution for, or is not taking steps to address.

Posting information about recalls is (IMO) non-constructive. Usually, individuals with vehicles affected by the recall ALREADY KNOW about the issue (through contact by the manufacturer). Individuals with vehicles which are NOT affected are then left wondering, "gee, is my van safe to drive?" when there is nothing wrong with it.

Should these problems never have occurred? Sure. Okay. And every vehicle 'should' be perfect from the manufacturer and no defects should ever occur. But as an engineer, you should realize that with a vehicle as complex as any current generation minivan, one simply can't idiot-proof every vehicle component to insure proper assembly.

Are you aware of ANY on-the-road 'incidents' arising from the three recalls you posted?

isellhondas · May 2005

Like I said. the majority of these recalls amount to very little. Aren't you glad Honda is so quick to make things right so you WON'T have a problem?

Ocean Mist? Nice color!

dae · May 2005

Are you aware of ANY on-the-road incidents' arising from the three recalls you posted?

No. I am not a member of NHTSA.

What, as an engineer, I do know, and that is the reason I pointed it out, is that there are defects due to design - poor design, unanticipated use, etc. Sludging problem in Toyotas is an example. Or exploding Firestone tires. Who knew that people will not change oil, or check pressure? Right?

On the other hand there are issues with manufacturing. Screwing thing the wrong way so to speak. Those are harder to get rid of, as it is in the culture, not in a particular design. It worries me a lot that Honda has this kind of issues on their US. plant (bad enough to cause a string of full blown recalls). In my previous experience they have been flawless. I hope to be proven wrong on this one.

chuckels · May 2005

I Have Ocean Mist Touring.

Power sliding doors do not work a majority of the time, very similar problem to yours.

Brought it to Honda Dealer, it was working, they couldn't do anything.

Also had slow leak in Tire Pressure Monitor, checked tires, and pressure was off 8lbs.

Honda Dealer said nothing was wrong, no nails or anything, and unless it was flat, they couldn't do anything.

Called Honda Corporate to no Avail, went on line here, went to Michelin, and they sent me back to same Honda Dealer.

Major Run Around.

Make long story short, after a week of constantly re filling air pressure, I threatened lawsuit, and lo and behold, Honda dealer
After consulting with Michelin replaced tire free of charge.

Power doors still not working right, but until they die, I have to live with them.

You are right, First year vehicle, which touring is, have manufactures defects.

I would rather have an 04 Odyssey than an 05 with problems.

And the treatment I received from Honda really shocked me.

Never will I buy a Honda again, unless it was 2-3K cheaper than Hyundai, which is now beating Honda in quality.

Shame on you Honda.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :

isellhondas · May 2005

"Hyundai now beating Honda in quality" ??

Really? Over the LONG RUN ??

I am sorry to hear of your problems but it is darn tough to try to fix a problem a dealer can't replicate. It's frustrating to the dealers too.

Customer comes in and says the power doors aren't working right and a tire has a slow leak. A technician and maybe a Service Manager try the operation of the doors over and over and over again. No problems found. Working fine. :confuse:

Take the leaking tire off and dunk it in a water tank to look for a leak. Spend 10 minutes looking for bubbles....nothing!!

They WANT to fix your Odyssey right the first time! You will be mailed a survey from Honda. We live and die by these surveys and "Fixed first time?" is an important question.

Frustrating for both sides and if you buy another brand, they all have problems from time to time too.

I hope they can isolate your problem doors.

allison5 · May 2005

Just curious on what you think of SIenna's short seats and lack of thigh support especially since you are so tall. I am tall myself and found the seats did not give enough support however I am not crazy about Odyessy seats either or lack of leg room.

texasmichael · May 2005

I don't feel the short thigh support on Sienna because I always don't get enough thigh support on most vehicles.
The only thing that bothers me is that my knee almost touches the instrument panel on Odyssey. Maybe it is due to my sitting position. Odyssey's front legroom is 40.8 in. Sienna has 42.9 in. Maybe it is just small difference for some people. I just don't feel roomy in Odyssey. Plus EX-L or Touring has sunroof which reduces the front head room from 40.9 in. to 39.2 in. Sienna's front head room is 42 inches. And 39.5 inches with sunroof. That's another reason that I don't want the sunroof. For Odyssey EX-L or Touring, I don't think there is an option to remove the sunroof.
Anyway, just reading from both van's spec, there is no doubt that Sienna is roomier than Odyssey in front seat.

jramsden · May 2005

Driving on sandy beach is different from snow. The distribution of traction to as many tires as possible reduces tendency to "bog down" in the sand.
Does anyone have experience on any vehicle with AWD as to how it handles driving on sand? I know my current FWD Caravan bogs down easily, where 4X4 have no problems. Would AWD on sienna help in this instance?

brugg · May 2005

after getting frustrated with the sliding door not wanting to open (not sure why), pulling the handle, trying the dash switches, etc. it finally opened - now it won't fully close and latch. I have to push on the back end of door to make it latch.
it almost seems like the cable stretched (or the anchors got out of adjustment) and isn't pulling it all the way to latch. anyone know if this is the issue and how to adjust it.
I tried the door jamb and the hook itself, but that didn't do it.
thanks

brugg · May 2005

ANY vehicle will bog down in sand. i had an Army 3/4 ton on the beach once and was a real surpised how dificult it was.
If you have a vehicle with dual wheels that would be good.

toyotaken · May 2005

It would probably help somewhat, but the surface area of the tires on the sand is a MUCH more significant issue. As the previous poster sort of got to about the dual rear wheels. On Trucks for example, I have often lowered the tire pressures to 8-10psi to let the tires spread out MUCH more and then refilled them when getting back onto pavement. On the sienna AWD and the run-flat tires having the reinforced sidewalls, you won't get any benfit from this. So answering your question, sure, having the power routed to all 4 wheels rather than 2 will help prevent burying the wheels up to the axles in the front, but won't help overly much on loose sand.

Ken

dae · May 2005

Does anyone have experience on any vehicle with AWD as to how it handles driving on sand? I know my current FWD Caravan bogs down easily, where 4X4 have no problems. Would AWD on sienna help in this instance?

The important thing on sand is to get traction, so AWD helps a LOT, but as you will sink in anyway, ground clearance is the next big thing.

What are you doing on sand dunes in a minivan?

My 325XiT BMW is absoletuly great on sandy roads, even though it is a darn station wagon. I will not take my Odyssey there.

jipster · May 2005

"What are you doing on sand dunes in a minivan?"

That's kind of personal dae. Haven't you heard the old saying," Don't come a knocking if that minivan be a rocking."?

Claires · May 2005

brugg, please post your question in the Honda Odyssey Owners: Problems & Solutions Forum, where other owners who've had the same experience may have hit upon a solution to your problem.

ClaireS

dae · May 2005

That's kind of personal dae

I meant what kind of driving, not the purpose of the trip.

If I were you (or if my wife did not hate Chevy), I would get short GMC Savana with AWD and 5300 V8 (rather OK fuel economy and decent reliability) and give it about 3 inch lift. Tons of options should fit that suspension.

Mmm. Make it a conversion van minus lower body cladding with the lift. Just what I need for my Sierra Nevada trips...

dave49 · May 2005

Do you know if ground clearance of the 2005 is different from the 2004?
How about the floor height? Did that change with the new 2005?

dhfd · May 2005

I noticed in your post, you mentioned the Sienna required premium...its interesting to know b/c in the CR buyer's guide it showed it took regular...however, when we went for a test drive in the Odyssey the dealer mentioned the Sienna took premium. Why would a van need premium gas? this is good info to have considering the gas prices lately.

heywood1 · May 2005

The Sienna does not require premium. Your salesperson is either misinformed or lying.

carolynhan · May 2005

I had the exact problem with my 1999 Odyssey about a year ago. When the dealer told me it would be $300 upwards to fix, I decided to live with bumping the door every time it was closed. (Three kids in college doesn't leave us with lots of extra cash). I still have a small indentation from the constant abuse. I was looking on a website, the dealership sent by email, to remind me about my next scheduled service and noticed a recall for this problem, but NOT including my production month and year. I decided with nothing to lose, I'd call the Honda number listed. I explained my problem, possible cost to me even though not included in recall, and was told to return to dealer and it would be fixed free of charge. I have been very happy with Honda so far. I may check into the catalytic converter problem next because my check engine/maintenance required light keeps staying lit. From the reviews, it sounds like it might be a recall or constant problem for some cars. I plan to call Honda again to see what they can do for me. Nothing to lose. It has been a much better experience owning a Honda than any other car so far. We are slowly switching to Hondas and Toyotas with 5 drivers in the family. We only have one GM (Cadillac) car left. We'll never buy a Chrysler product again. We've owned two Chrysler minivans. Good luck!

sanger · May 2005

Great forum and very informative --- I'm deciding between the 05 Sienna LE + leather and DVD and the 05 Odyssey EX-L plus DVD --- just wondering about everyones' thoughts on the recent J D Power's IQS rating as follows:

>Toyota Sienna - 110 pph
>Chrysler Town & Country - 125 pph
>Dodge Caravan - 126 pph
>Kia Sedona - 137 pph
>Nissan Quest - 139 pph
>Chevrolet Venture - 145 pph
>Ford Freestyle - 145 pph
>Honda Odyssey - 175 pph
Understandably, this is a new model year for the Odyssey, but to score so low is rather concerning, is it not? The new $1000 Toyota rebate is drawing us to the Sienna as well, and a Sienna LE-7 with added leather plus DVD was quoted to us for $2000 lower than the Odyssey EX-L + DVD.... Understandably the Odyssey will come with a few more bells and whistles (double power doors for example) but for an extra $2K? Any suggestions and comments appreciated!

jipster · May 2005

Since reliability/initial quality seem to be important to you...as well as the Toyota Sienna being $2,000 less than Ody. It would seem obvious that you would choose the Sienna. I did not know the Honda Ody scored so low in initial quality...so you do have a good reason to be concerned. Nissan Quest 2004 had a horrible first year in initial quality. The 2005 model is doing much better.

05ody · May 2005

No, the Sienna can run on Regular fuel but you will not get the performance numbers and the amount of horsepower that is listed. If you want the 230hp and 242tq, you need Premium fuel. To me thats just false advertising

heywood1 · May 2005

Possibly, but it may be a difference of only one or two hp--and only an issue if you are towing something.

I have never understood why premium can be a deal-breaker for so many people. The average driver could pay for the difference in monthly cost by skipping a couple of lattes at Starbucks.

Many people won't pay the extra cents per gallon for premium, but they'll spend $2 on a soft drink at a convenience store....

dhfd · May 2005

I always said I'd get an Odyssey when I that time came to buy a van, but since doing some reading here, it sounds like there are alot of quality issues w/ the 2005 Odyssey. This is a little disturbing considering I've seen it always being recommended (Consumer Reports) and getting good reviews.

Are these issues for all trimlines? We're interested in the EX (w/o leather). The van is going to replace a 2002 VW Passat wagon, which was also recommended, but have run into recent problems with it. I don't want to get into a new car that will start having problems right off the bat.

thanks

dhfd · May 2005

I really like the dual power rear doors on the Odyssey EX, but we're also considering the Sienna LE w/ the power passenger rear door. Wanted to know if any Sienna owners that only had the power passenger door had any comments/complaints on this setup.

It seems it'd be better if they're going to offer sliding doors to have both of them to be powered. My wife has some friends w/ vans that have them, and who say they can be annoying when you want the door to close more quickly, ie when its raining.

thanks,

irg · May 2005

You have to get an XLE model to get the power rear (hatch) door, and the XLE also includes dual power side doors, whereas the LE only has one side door that is power, and no rear power hatch. I have a new XLE, and at this point, I love the power features, as long as they turn out to be reliable. Assuming they are, I very much like the power rear hatch. It is great for shorter people like my wife, and it is also nice in the winter when the rear doors get dirty and you don't want it all over your hands. Also, if you don't use the power button on the remote or the overhead console, you just give the strap a little tug and it automatically closes as well. Very slick.

irg · May 2005

Originally I wanted the Odyssey EX cloth, but the payments were more (about $80 more/month) than a similarly equipped Sienna XLE. The Sienna scored #1 in the recent JD Power for initial quality, honorable mention to the Caravan/Chrysler vans. I think CR recommended the new Odyssey based on the results of past years, and at that point the van was too new to discover whatever problems have since developed. Nissan also had a lot of problems with the Quest the first year, and it seems to be better now. But that was a completely different van. It seems that although this Odyssey is a new van for Honda, it isn't as completely new as the Quest is for Nissan, but maybe it is. Typically I don't like to buy brand new designs, but usually from Toyota and Honda I don't worry about it as much. With the Odyssey however, it might be smart to wait until the '06 models, or look at the Sienna. Both are really good, for me the price I got on my Sienna couldn't be beat. If the reveres were true, I would probably be driving an Odyssey now.

yangc · May 2005

have been spending quite a bit time on this forum research those two models.

I'm in Canada and have tested two vehicles already. didn't feel much different. maybe, just maybe Sienna is a little bit quieter and smoother. but Odyssey's intenior definitely looks better and more appealing.

the most important is that "side and curtain air bags" options are not available unless i go up to XLE model, which starts with CAD50K.

donhagner · May 2005

I read the "hot air" problem discussed in the "problems and solutions" forum. I am wondering if Sienna blow hot/warm air from its vent when fresh air mode is selected. In the 2005 Odyssey, after 30 minutes of driving in fresh air mode (AC off), the vent will give you 100-110 degree of hot air. To correct the problem, Odyssey drivers have to turn of AC or use automatic climate control. But this means the AC has to work harder and longer, creating fuel efficiency problem.

We need Sienna owners test drive their cars without AC (just use fresh air mode), and see if the air from the vent is hot, warm, or same as outside temperature.

I prefer Odyssey (EX-L) over Sienna (XLE). But I would rather wait one or two years until Honda corrects the "hot air" problem and other defects.

05ody · May 2005

Actually I just perfer the Odyssey. I use premium fuel in both my 98 Accord V6 and in my 05 Odyssey.Dont get me wrong I really like the Sienna but I perfer to drive the Odyssey. Honda and Toyota are the only cars I will buy. And your right it doesnt really matter unless you are towing which is something I do not do anyways.

05ody · May 2005

Sorry about the double post I must of missed this one. Have you had any major problems with your Passat? because I do not think the new one's are recommended. And my Odyssey is an EX (w/o leather) and we havnt had any problems what so ever. Everytime we drive the Odyssey it just gets better and better. The only thing we took it in for was an oil change because we put 200+km on it per day. We were the first 05 Odyssey for an oil change and they had trouble reseting the oil life reminder lol. If you like the Odyssey I say go for it because aparentlly from what I read there were alot of problems with the 98 Accord too, which I never had any problems with it eather. So far to me Honda has been a VERY reliable company. And to boot, we never plug out cars in and for a 7 year old car, it still starts no problem at 40 below tempature

isellhondas · May 2005

I read about this "hot air problem" and it's something I have NEVER heard of except from that one person in these forums.

If there is, in fact a problem with that particular Odyssey it should be easy to fix I would think.

dae · May 2005

I read the "hot air" problem discussed in the "problems and solutions"

Consensus is that it is the poster (and maybe his particular van) that is blowing hot air. Mine does not. I checked. No other issues in my EX.

isellhondas · May 2005

And tried his little experiment on a new Odyssey the other night. No hot air.

lumbar · May 2005

Interesting example of how one anecdotal, and likely overstated, assessment of a "problem" with hot air begins to take on a life of its own.

isellhondas · May 2005

And people believe it! Soon they start to see, hear and feel the same "problem" on their own cars!

sanger · May 2005

We've just bought an 05 Sienna -7 LE --- our interior is gray, and we are upgrading to leather --- while most people choose the same leather shade to match to rest of the interior, I am wondering if anyone has any experience with a darker shade leather (charcoal or graphite) --- would that provide a nice "two tone" color, or is it just going to look awkward?? Any info and advice appreciated ---

dilbertzzz · May 2005

And I just heard this from a friend of a friend, whose friend found a brand new Sienna (or was it an Odyssey? Maybe it was a Corvette?) where this guy had died in it and they just couldn't get the smell out. So they couldn't sell the vehicle. He (she?) got if for a song ($10,000? $15,000? Free?) and just has to keep open boxes of baking soda around the interior to manage quite well.

But that really is a modern myth. The "hot air" issue is someone who has become irritated by an unexpected result from their not-exactly-standard use of the ventilation system. It's a little like the poor lady who could not abide the seats. And also a little like those irritated that the programmable un/locking feature is not included on all Odysseys. None of those are of general concern to most folks. However, each is a real and present irritant to those affected. For them it might mean that they have to get rid of the van and buy something else (or ache for the day when they can).

I'm also afraid that, for each of those people, the desire to force Honda to "do something" will only lead to increased frustration and added irritation while doing little if anything to relieve their issues with the vehicle. Sometimes, it is simply necessary to cut your losses and either learn to live with the situation or sell (even at a loss) so that you can move on.

I can also say with assurance that, even if Honda really is affected by any groundswell of consumer support you might be able to drum up, it will result in low-key changes that will not help you personally in the slightest (nor will you feel any self satisfaction from your efforts, so disconnected will the effect be from the cause).

I'm sorry you are not happy, but advise that continued "warring" on Honda is probably counterproductive for your own wellbeing. As always, such free advice may well be worth to you only as much as it cost....

nwng · May 2005

ex cloth cost more than xle?

If I had known, i would have bought the xle

irg · May 2005

Well to be fair, I have a base XLE which is hard to find I think. It also doesn't have the side air bags that the Ody EX has, although that ended up being my preference. And I got my XLE at Fitzmall in Maryland which sells their Siennas at or below invoice. I haven't found a Honda dealer that had as good a deal. And the bottom line for me, was the monthly payments for leasing, and the Honda just came out to be considerably more. If you were to buy an Ody EX and a base or even package #3 XLE Sienna, the price is pretty close. The XLE climbs in price though when you add the upper packages, or go for the Limited model. So I got lucky I guess, in terms of finding this van at the price, and then when I leased, there were even greater incentives for me. But I liked the Ody a lot, and would have been very happy with one of those too.

dhfd · May 2005

Initially just irritating electrical issues, like, the radio not working, problems w/ the turn signal...but now the biggest has been a sludge problem in an oil screen, even though I've had the oil changed a regular basis. When I called the dealer about it, he asked if I had the 1.8T, (I do) and he diagnosed the problem w/o even seeing the car...said to get all the oil change receipts since I've had the car and he'd make a claim to VW to get them to pay.

Long story short, unfortunately, I didn't have all of these, and had the screen replaced, so far so good, however, there's a rattling/vibrating sound coming from engine compartment when its idling or pressing accelerator. Its at the dealer now...

If VW seems to know about such a problem w/ the 1.8T, shouldn't there be TSB?

Sorry about the VW tangent...I'd really like to get the Ody EX, just have that once bitten twice shy feeling. Is the LX and EX (w/o leather) have a different engine than the '04 Ody?

Can the rear thermostat be controlled by the driver's settings? The dealer said it was, however there's controls in the back, just curious his comment seemed confusing.

Also, does the Ody have a windshield wiper deicer like the Sienna?

thanks

isellhondas · May 2005

Oh, be careful. If you do something oddball that you happen to like it may be a turn off later when you go to sell it.

isellhondas · May 2005

A great post! You summed things up quite nicely here.

If never fails to amaze me what a big deal some people can make out of the smallest thing....small to the masses anyway.

dilbertzzz · May 2005

Understand that I'm not demeaning these folks' complaints in the slightest. These complaints certainly should be stated, listened to, and not belittled.

Personally, I am now completely spoiled by auto-locking/unlocking on both my 2003 vehicles: a Yukon XL SLE (the base model) and a Taurus SES (a Taurus, mind you!). I'm even just a tiny bit miffed that the Taurus has the feature, but doesn't allow the same range of programming options as the YXL (though I use only the one I like best on the Yukon, I did get to make the choice!).

I am also quite surprised that Honda would include that feature on only one model in an apparent attempt to help justify the expense of the most expensive version. I can think of no other reason as it undoubtedly costs them more money to make the different with/without versions than it would to include this simple feature on all trim levels.

My only point is that railing against Honda over these matters is undoubtedly personally more harmful than helpful: tilting at windmills.

rorr · May 2005

"Is the LX and EX (w/o leather) have a different engine than the '04 Ody?"

Well, all the '05 Odys (as well as the '04) have a SOHC 3.5l V6 with identical bore/stroke. The LX and EX '05 (like the EX-L and Touring) engines are rated at 255hp whereas the '04 engines were rated at 240hp. From that standpoint, the '05 engines are different from the '04. However, I think the only differences where in the intake and exhaust system and perhaps some slight tweeking to the VTEC system.

That being said, the VCM system on the EX-L and Touring is simply an offshoot of the VTEC technology. In that sense, I would expect the VCM system to be as reliable as VTEC. What is not known is the long-term reliablity of the special engine mounts and noise cancellation technolgy which is specific to the VCM or the long-term effects of cylinder shutdown (at least in regards to US spec engines). However, VCM technology has been used for a few years on some JDM Hondas so the technology isn't COMPLETELY new. I don't know if this eases your mind about the VCM technology or not.

"Can the rear thermostat be controlled by the driver's settings?"

I don't know about the LX and EX. However, with the EX-L, you can control the rear fan speed from the front HVAC control panel. You cannot control the rear thermostat or where the air is going (upper vents, lower vents, or mix) from the front. On the Touring, you can set everything from the front HVAC control panel (3 zone automatic climate control).

"Also, does the Ody have a windshield wiper deicer like the Sienna?"

I'm not sure but I don't think so.

Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

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