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Back to my issue on the car seats. This whole tether and latch thing is foreign to me. I have an 00 MPV and I put my car seats in the old fashioned way WITH SEAT BELTS!!! Because I've not used them, I just don't understand the big deal.
We've actually driven both vehichles already, but NOT an apples to apples. We drove the Sienna mostly on back roads/city and Ody on highway. Plus only my wife drove the Ody. We are looking at a mid-line model and in these cases it seems like Ody wins out. Sienna LE 8 pass w/ option 5 vs Ody EX Cloth. For basically the same MSRP ~ $28.5 you get these extra's on the Ody - 2nd power side door, 6 disk changer and power drivers seat. To get any of that on Sienna you need to step up to XLE and then you can't get 8 passenger. I think Sienna does have some bells and whistles Ody doesn't - air pressure sensor, MPG tracking, etc...but I don't know them all.
The biggest thing will be price negotiation if we pick the Ody. I hate negotiating with Honda and have generally had bad experiences with "honda arrgance" that just rubs me the wrong way. I know I can get the Sienna for ~ 24.5 with incentives. If we end up liking the Ody better, whether we get one or not will depend on what the price delta is over the Sienna. I know it will be more, the question is how much. If it gets too high, we will go with Sienna regardless.
My take on this is that they plan to add AWD.
Chrysler gave up on AWD to add Stow-n-go.
Honda was critisized for not matching Sienna's AWD option.
Touring model tests out those new PAX tires (technically - huge improvement over Toyota's run-flats, I will leave the other issues with them aside)
Other vehicles sharing bits and pieces with Odyssey - MDX, Pilot, Ridgeline are all AWD.
People really do not need fold-flat second row in minivans, though it is a nifty and catching marketing feature indeed.
My bet is they are planning to add AWD after looking how the PAX situation sorts itself out. Their new Alabama plan is designed to be as flexible as possible and they have the hardware all tested out on other vehicles.
I think arrogance varies by the dealers and is not specific to a brand.
The one thing that is good about Honda price negotiations is that you do not have to navigate tons of options packages. If you know exactly what you want (I guess - color)just call around asking.
It seems that $26K to $26.5K for EX was the recent going price (including destination) around here (north CA), though you may do better as the model year end approaches.
v/s
Honda Odyssey EX
Quest S is an rough equivalent of Odyssey LX. Just go over standard equipment - carsdirect has a convenient side by side comparison mode.
Ouest S - 4sp transmission, steel wheels, manual air conditioning system - LX level at best indeed.
You can by Odyssey LX, with destination for $23K
You can buy Odyssey EX, with destination for $26K (I paid $26.5 a bit ago)
it is difficult to justify the extra $5000.0
Yes, especially when you do not have to pay that much.
You will pay $3K for a 5sp transmission, second power door, better AC etc etc.. About on par with what you pay for that kind of features. (What you pay in EX over LX)
I am in PA and I'm hopeful that I can get the price at ~ 25.5...we'll see. I've read on the prices thread that people are getting them 1 - 200 over invoice around here. Fingers crossed.
First things first, we gotta decide.
It is easy: Ocean Mist.
What I really like is proving the Ody isn't the perfect van all these Honda owners think it is. Does that sound right from a Honda car owner?
You should have heard the doors lock at about 27mph. Maybe that's 40km/h. It's one of those stupid safety features Chrysler put on the van to protect the owner's family. One woman here last year, probably would have loved to have had that feature on her car when she stopped for a red light and this guy jumped into the passenger's door, took her out to the desert, raped and killed her.
AND then putting it in park and opening the doors turned on the hazzard lights..
Yes, another dumb safety feature Chrysler put on the van. Any time you open a sliding door, the turn signal turns on for the side that opens. It's to let cars or people coming up on your van, know that someone is about to exit on that side so they don't hit them when they're getting out.
Myself sitting in the stow n go I didnt think they were THAT bad. My Ody seats were far more comfy though but my kids complained about them being "weird and uncomfortable".
Funny, kids would be the last ones I would expect to complain. It's usually only Honda owners.
I also couldnt get the stow n go to stow...even following the instructions.
Sorry to hear that. They're a piece of cake for most people.
I am a very happy owner of my Odyssey and would never even consider a Dodge Caravan.
Gee, I would have never guessed you were an Odyssey owner.
I mean why would the doors lock AFTER you are moving.
I guess maybe those Chrysler enginers realized that there are people like me that will move one car off the driveway and onto the street after washing it so you don't get it all wet washing the other.( Yes, Chrysler owners a lot of times have to wash our own vans. We are not as well off as many others) Anyway, it would be a pain in the rear to have to unlock the doors when that's all the farther I'm taking it. Same as moving it from the driveway to the garage. Gee, those people think of everything.
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My wife and I just had our third, and finally decided that a minivan is the right choice. Closely looked at Sienna and Honda, and went back and forth for a while. On last visit to Sienna, we took the two booster seats and the baby seat to make sure all fit and the two older kids (6 and 8) could get in by themselves.
That's when we discovered Sienna's fatal flaw. The 2nd row flips up for third row access. Putting it back requires it to be pushed back down onto it's connectors in the floor. The wife envisioned several minor disasters where one kid would be pushing down on the seat while another kid had his hands/feet/whatever under the seat, or even his own feet. The Honda seats slide forward, so no chance of a foot being stabbed by a seat being returned. End of game for Toyota, we're ordering our Honda now.
Does anyone have any practical experience with this issue?
With the Ody vs Sienna thing. I think the Sienna is the better value and minivan between the two. In my area there is a $750 cash back on all Siennas. Which can be had fairly close to invoice.Sienna has the advantage in reliability. All other things fairly equal.
If you prefer better sporty handling, an engaging spirited driving experience, and a tad faster acceleration, Ody is the way to go. I know since I have tackled a Sienna at stoplights and in corners.
If you prefer a plusher quieter ride and a Lexus luxury feeling, the Sienna is the choice.
Of the two, Sienna is offerring more incentives. In the Raleigh area, I have seen the base Sienna priced at just under $22K a few months ago.
you can get a quest SL for about $23.5k
missing from the quest are: 1 pwr slider, vsc and split 3rd row (which i found to be extremely important), 6 disc cd changer.
missing from ex: trip to aruba FOR TWO, much better sound system, kinda folddown 2nd row, styled better (IMO), bit more room.
If my wife did not insist on the two pwr sliders, I would have pick the quest, hell, I would have picked a
usedcertified 3 series wagon with 5 sp if I had it my way.Since I'm a slow mover and like to research things, I've been popping around this specific forum since ~ late April. I haven't calculated the actual posts or done anything scientific, but my general feeling is that their seems to be a lot more Ody fans then Sienna. It seemed to me that a larger amount of the posts were cheering Ody on rather then Sienna. Noticing this phenomena is what prompted me, basically on a whim, to go check out the Ody. Now, we really like the Ody and have a tough decision to make...and more research. :confuse:
So, the question is this. Is the Ody really that much better, or is it just that Ody buyers are more internet savvy or passionate about their vehicles that they tend to post more on this forum. It is an interesting question to ponder...
Knowing some of the die hards, I have a feeling that somebody is going to come back with some kind of statistics with posts for Sienna and Ody and prove me wrong or something, but we'll see.
Regardless, even though reading these posts has lead me to a more difficult process/decision, it has also led me to the Ody and will ensure that I make a very well informed decision. For that, I say thanks to all posters!
ARUBA is very much in the headlines these days!!
I think Ody owners post more often because their vans are always at the dealership being repaired...AND they don't have anything better to do. :P
Or, perhaps Ody owners are being paid off for each undecided consumer, such as yourself, who is on the fence as to which van to purchase.
I WISH I HAD AN ODY!!!
Buy what is best for you...if you buy for any other reason you will regret it.
Well, drove them both today. Did a full once over of all the features, etc then took both for a ride. We did Sienna first, Ody 2nd. When we were leaving Honda dealer, my wife and I both looked at each other and said "Sienna".
To us, the choice was pretty obvious. The toyota is just a lot more luxurious inside and the drive is wayyyy nicer. I guess everyone has their own driving preferences, but for my wife and I, we prefer smooth. We're not into cars and whole feel the road and all the jazz so to us, the difference was like night and day. The Toyota drove so nice. You could hardly feel any of the gears shifting, it was smooth. In the Honda, you could feel everything, every little shift, and for us personally, that is not what we are looking for in minivan ride.
Also, we payed close attention to the rode noise and again Sienna won hands down. Sitting in the back of the Ody, you could barely hear the sales guy talking.
The biggest bummer about the Sienna vs the Ody EX is that you can't get the 2nd power door. Also, no 6 disk changer or power driver seat, but those are much less important then the slider door. Since we want 8 passenger Sienna, the XLE is not an option for us. So basically, we have to live without 2nd power door. That's the biggest downside. Other then those things, the only other advantage I'd give to the Ody is access to the 3rd row. Their seat slides forward. Sienna's flips forward. Technically on the Ody if you were using the tethers, you could still slide the whole seat forward with a child seat in it. On the Sienna you can't because the seat bends in half before it flips.
Even taking all of that into account, for our purposes we still felt Sienna won, hands down. I hope this is useful to someone as this whole thread has been very useful to me...it really helps you know what to look for at the dealerships.
Honda lovers please don't attack me. I said above it is all a matter of personal preference. Some folks may prefer the ride of the Honda much more. They are both awesome, but for our preferences, Sienna wins.
Could you actually slide the Ody seat with a tether attached? I can see with it anchored or belted in... then the Ody definitely would be a plus since it doesn't bend the seat forward. But the additional tethers would attach to the floor behind the seat or the front chairs depending on the fore/rear facing orientation, and they are usually very taut on our seats.
Good point on the difference between the two nonetheless... tethers are not always used (infant carriers, booster seats, lots of other car seats). I'm sure the majority of people would still gain accessibility by the Ody.
Thanks for the feedback on the road noise. That is very important to us since we are planning on putting a kid in the far back. I've always suspected there was a reason the Ody is playing with active noise cancellation....
Hope you get a good deal on your Sienna.
Just FYI - the Honda guy said to me "the best price I've seen on these is 1K over invoice" I don't buy it, but I wasn't going to get into it their because I didn't think we'd want one anyway so I told him we'll talk about that if we decide to get any ody.
Regarding the tether, latch, etc...I honestly have no idea how they work. In my 00MPV we use the seat belts. I mentioned to the guy that you could move the seat up with the car seat in it and he said, yes. I'm just taking his word. The thing I'm talking about had 2 little metal bars in the seat bottom(where you sit). I didn't realize/don't know if you put something over the top of the seat down to the floor. So, I was figuring if you just attach it to the seat and don't use the seatbelt...which is what he lead me to believe...then you can move the whole seat with car seat in it. If you have to use the seatbelt, then advantage gone.
I agree, the Sienna has a more isolated and softer ride. The Honda is more of a "driver's car".
Souinds like you narrowed it down...good luck with your purchase!
You cannot lose with either the Ody or Sienna.
It all depends on your driving preferences. As you said, "We're not into cars and whole feel the road and all the jazz so to us", so your choice is obvious.
The Sienna is the "Lexus of Minivans"
The Ody is the "BMW of Minivans"
So they appeal to the different driving styles of drivers on various positions in the driving spectrum range.
Enjoy your Sienna!
In any case, this link shows why we doubt we're going to be able to move, fold, stow, etc. the middle seats once we finish tying it down:
Britax rear tethering
Anyway, I'm sure that is more than anyone really wanted to know about tethers... just goes to show how hard access can be through those second rows with car seats in them.
Do people really buy these things anymore? With an iPod and an aux input adapter you get far more functionality and save a bundle of cash in most cases.
Just a suggestion...
-murray
About the best we could do though put the Sienna about $4k more than the Ody (which we paid $28.6k+TTL for our Ocean Mist EX-L in February). So, based on price, for us the Ody was a clear winner.
Enjoy your Sienna.
They are both great.
In the three measured categories:
mechanical quality - Sienna - 5 star ------------ Ody 4 star
body and interior quality - Sienna - 5 star ------------- Ody - 2 star
feature quality - Sienna - 5 star ------------- Ody - 3 star
That is why Buick Le Sabre/Mercury Grand Marquis attract a certain crowd and Accord/Maxima/BMW a different crowd - i.e. different ends of the driving spectrum. The Avalon used to be the Toyota's Buick; now the new version is trying to shed that image and going the other way of "sportiness". The Avalon would be in strong consideration as well as another Ody to replace my current 10+ year car when that time comes.
We just put in our rear facing child seat (waiting on baby #3 any day now) and my wife put the seat in, and was very please about how secure and easy this was. However we have the 7 seat XLE model. Do you need the seats for 8 people? If not, I would recommend the 7 seat. We have 2 other kids who use booster seats, and they work well in any kind of seat at this point. We love the flexibility of the Sienna. I've heard the '06 model might have powered folding rear seats in the upper trim model. Now that would be cool (and totally unnecessary, but still cool).
So, having 3 kids accross row 2 is really the primary reason we are even getting a new van. Again, wild card. The kids can end up wanting to kill each other in 6 months, then the oldest goes to the back anyway....but as you say the 60/40 split helps a lot there. We think/hope we get a while out of the 3 across because the 2 oldest don't fight now and they'll still be seperated by the new born which hopefully they'll be mesmerized by at least for a while. Who the hell knows!!
Thanks for the input!
I recently returned my new Ody because my dealer cannot fix the "hot air" problem (see the discussion in the Ody's "Problems and Solutions" forum. Right now, I am still debating whether I should get Sienna right away or wait until Honda improves their Odysseys' reliability.
If I cannot wait, I have to figure out how to increase Sienna's braking power. I am thinking that maybe by getting 4 disc brakes option (instead of LE's 2 drums in the rear) and by changing to 235/65R15 tires (instead of standard 215 mm), I can increase the braking power. Am I right? Do anyone have any suggestion?
BTW, XLE with 6 isn't available in NYC area. I live in NJ and had to go to MD to buy it.
I am sure that the handful of Honda combos are available in all markets.
Toyota's approach stinks. I thought the Sienna was a better van but since I couldn't get the combo I wanted, I almost went with the Honda. If the Honda dealership came down say $300, I would have bought the Honda a week before I actually got the Sienna
A lower aspect ratio, i.e. a shorter tire wall, that is usually associated with wider tires gives a stiffer/harsher ride and better cornering/handling because there is less tire height to cushion the bumps and irregularities of the road surfaces. In addition to these basics above, the suspension system including the shocks and springs play a significant role in a vehicle's handling.
I have used wider lower aspect ratio tires in my vehicles on many occasions in the past. I did notice improvements in cornering, handling, traction and braking. If you can spin tires before, it would be more difficult due to the increased traction tire area. Just make sure that you have sufficient fender clearance at 4 corners and the rims can accomadate the wider tires.
Both are fine rides but if I had to buy today I would get an Ody Touring for the power adjustable pedals and slightly larger front passenger area.
Again, I cannot compare with the Ody since I've personally never driven one but I've been told and I've observed that folks are extremely happy with their Ody's (same for the Sienna's) and I'm sure you can't pick a bad choice with either mini-van.