Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

ewt · September 2005

I'm probably a worst case scenario for tire wear since I'm harder on tires than most, and do most of my driving on city streets. I'd guess you could get 35-40K out of them under better conditions. Siennas do not have special wheels for the RFTs - only the PAX system on the Odyssey has those, so you can switch to regular tires if you desire.

rorr · September 2005

Has anyone seen any tests comparing the capabilities of an AWD vehicle w/o traction/VSC on snow to the capabilites of a 2WD vehicle with traction/VSC on snow?

I'll agree that AWD/4WD would be better for accelerating away from a stop, simply because you are applying power to a much larger contact patch.

But for CONTROL (steering response, etc.) would AWD necessarily be better than skid control which utilizes individual brakes to help keep the vehicle on the intended path?

I realize there are more than a few AWD fans here, but has anyone actually tested a FWD version with VSC and snow tires?

fineweather · September 2005

I am not really hyped about leather seats. So I am thinking of buying an EX an install a DVD entertainment system vs. buying EXL with DVD/RES.

What do you guys think?

There is a difference of just over $2000.00 by that the EX + installed DVD is cheaper

I do have small kids and I thought cloth was a better option than leather.

Open to suggestions.

calgarydriver · September 2005

Thanks for the replies, folks--although the variety of opinions doesn't make the decision any easier! :-)

Test drives on mountain roads in snowy conditions would be ideal, but we're hoping to make the purchase before winter arrives (although around here that could be any day!).

We have loved the Highlander, but we find we now need full-fledged third-row seating, and the little rumble seat they've stuck into the newer Highlanders won't cut it. For better or worse, my wife prefers the idea of a minivan to a full-size SUV (Sequoia, etc.)

I didn't know about the kit to carry a spare by folding down part of the third row seats, but (sadly) that at least partially defeats the purpose of getting the vehicle--which is the additional passenger and cargo capacity.

Oh, well...life is full of vexing decisions!

Off subject reply to Hansienna: gasoline prices here currently range from $1.10 to $1.15 (Canadian) per liter. That works out to about $3.45 to $3.60 (US) per gallon.

We moved back to canada from Ithaca, NY 13 months ago. We noticed that gas prices here seemed pretty consistently 20-25% higher than in the US. Most of that is accounted for by higher federal and provincial (equivalent to state) taxes, excises, and levies.

The long and short of it is that gas is generally more expensive in Canada than the US, but Calgary's prices are among the lowest in Canada (because Alberta produces and exports the stuff and has among the lowest excise taxes on gasoline). The real story is that Alberta is debt-free and sitting on billions of dollars because of oil and gas revenues. This year alone, the province is expecting a surplus of 7 billion dollars--thanks to rising crude prices. As you might imagine, there are lots of ideas about what to do with a pile of loot like that--reduce provincial income tax (the province already has no sales tax); build lots of roads, schools, hospitals, etc; just give people checks, and so on!

calgarydriver · September 2005

We have two boys (1 and 3) and bought leather on our current vehicle specifically because of the children. It's a lot easier to clean and maintain than cloth. Dirty shoes/boots, spills of various liquids, ground in food of various stickinesses...it all cleans up much more easily with leather than with cloth seats.

(Of course, we're also in a cold climate, so the heated seat aspect of leather is also nice to have!)

As far as the DVD/entertainment stuff goes, I have similar questions myself. We definitely want to have the feature in our next vehicle, but is there a big difference between factory-installed vs. aftermarket/third-party?

It seems to me that factory-installed is a "cleaner" installation, and fully integrated into the vehicle. On the other hand, with technology evolving so quickly, aftermarket/third-party would seem to offer greater flexibility for swapping out--for a bigger screen, HD-DVD, and/or whatever else is "just around the corner" on the media/entertainment system front.

hansienna · September 2005

Have you also considered the Honda Pilot with AWD ? :confuse:
It is based on the Odyssey and although has less room inside than the Odyssey, it seems to have as much interior space as any but the largest, gargantuan SUV's..AND the Pilot gets gas mileage almost as good as the Sienna or Odyssey.
Off Topic: Thanks for the fuel cost report. (Although your fuel may be more expensive than in the USA, you more than make up for the difference in the reduced cost of health care in Canada vs the large monthly health care premiums we pay here.)

calgarydriver · September 2005

We had not yet considered the Pilot--and from a quick look, it's definitely worth looking at. Full three row seating, AWD (without the PAX conundrum), DVD for the kids in back...it might just be the answer. Thanks for the suggestion!!!

Off Topic: It's true that health care costs less up here in Canada--but wait times and access to medical services across the board are much longer. We had good health insurance in the U.S.--which definitely makes all the difference. We have certainly found both pros and cons about being on either side of the border.

A definite disadvantage in Canada is the price of vehicles. MSRP for the Odyssey EX L-RES in the US is $32,395. In Canada, MSRP for the same vehicle is $41,500. At today's exchange rate, that's equivalent to $34,860 US. Same car, $2,500 (US) more.

It's hard to take every factor into account, but when you consider average income, average tax rates, and so on, you can get some reasonable comparisons. The most effective way to compare costs is to ask how many hours the "average" person has to work to buy something. Using that measure, it takes the "average" Canadian 1552 hours of work to buy the "average" car. It takes the "average" American 1459 hours. (I found an international study from 2002 online for another project at the office.)

It turns out the same basic ratio applies for TVs, fridges, groceries, books, CDs, you name it. A "typical" Canadian has to work about 6 or 7% more hours to buy just about anything. Or, to put it another way, the "typical" Canadian can afford about 6 or 7% less "stuff" than the typical American. Some may say that's a good thing in the big picture...but when you're in the market for a big-ticket purchase like a car, it's tough to swallow. (And, sure enough, that $2500 premium for the Odyssey is right in the ballpark--7.7% more.) Anyway, I digress...

hansienna · September 2005

Thanks for all the valuable information about Canada...and YES, the information does pertain to Odyssey vs Sienna. Each takes between 7 and 8 % more working hours for the average resident of Canada to purchase than for the resident of the United States.

Almost every Canadian that I have met inside the United States prefers to live in Canada when every factor is considered.

ctsang · September 2005

If they prefer to live in Canada, why don't they move back to Canada? Do you know Peter Jennings, Wayne Gretzky, Celine Dion, Michael J. Fox all moved here from Canada and prefer to stay in USA?

hansienna · September 2005

They did. :shades:

donleung · September 2005

Calgarydriver:

I also live in Calgary and got the Sienna AWD.

The RFTs are a standard size so if you get a flat somewhere and can't get a RFT replacement then you could use a standard size tire.

My wife's Alero is an FWD with Traction Control (but no Stability Control). I have managed to get it stuck when both front tires were on ice such as coming out of parking lots where there is a "vee" formed between the road and the parking lot exit.

As well with AWD you can walk the vehicle off of the line at stoplights which are generally polished ice from people starting and stopping. The Sienna never spins a tire whereas the FWD Alero is a bit trickier to keep going straight.

In Calgary you're going to see a lot of polished intersections especially where there's a climb involved from the intersection in any hilly part of town.

My concern with the Pilot (or potential AWD Odyssey that never materialized) is that their system is FWD with power transfer to the rear wheels after slip detection and I believe their system is limited to a certain vehicle speed above which it remains an FWD vehicle even if slip is detected. I liked the Toyota mechanical 50/50 full time split better than something that is regulated and controlled. I know the brakes are applied to try and maintain a 50/50 split in low traction situations but I've never seen the VSC/TRAC lights come on in normal driving even on snowy roads.

Last October or November my wife had to drive her friend home in the midst of a big snowstorm. I said take the Sienna as it's AWD; she came back white knuckled with all of the vehicles around her sliding around and she even thought the Sienna seemed "loose". However, the next day she "wanted" to take the Sienna over the Alero even though she had to try to park it in an underground parkade and wasn't comfortable with its size; this says it all to me as being the right purchase.

To me it's just a larger margin of confidence/error than FWD in snowy or even rainy situations that can be around for 4 - 6 months of a year in Calgary.

DDL

mschukar · September 2005

Winter tires are definitely a worthy investment if you drive in snow! I wouldnt own a car without winter tires here in Wisconsin.

-murray

david2005 · September 2005

Thanks

mcase2 · September 2005

I believe the CE has no power doors, no roof rack, no daytime running lights, a more limited stereo system and none of the of the very desirable options available in the LE such as four-wheel disc, side curtain air bags, and VSC etc. I'm a Sienna owner, but I have to admit that the baseline Honda offers a lot more.

boodad · September 2005

mcase2, send me an email and I'll show you how to activate your daytime running lights - - it's very easy to do and it is free.

Claires · September 2005

Boodad, please post it to the board -- there may be other members reading here who have the same question and if it's handled in email, they'll be deprived of your help.

user777 · September 2005

I think this was mentioned in the Toyota Sienna Prob and Sol Forum (2004) in msg 1322:

link

boodad · September 2005

Hi Claires

I helped before on another issue but when I posted the link to another website, I got my hand slapped (Edmunds.com policy regarding using other websites in links) by a moderator.

However, If you allow me to post the link (to another site) which has the necessary pics and instructions, I'll do it. It is much too difficult to describe without pics (it involves taking a spare fuse and inserting it in an unused slot in the fuse box).

So, the ball is in your court. I stand ready to post!!!

BTW, the link in the above post by user777 is accurate. However, a picture is worth more IMHO.

Cheers,

Boodad

str · September 2005

Hey Boodad,

I did just what you told me to do and I now have DRLs! I will tell you that without the diagram it would have been a lot more difficult.

Thanks for the help.

boodad · September 2005

Hi str,

Glad to help. Knowledge is power - - I'm more than willing to share.

Claires · September 2005

Hi, Boodad,

Links themselves aren't a problem, as long as they don't go to other online communities or to sites that provide you with some personal gain (i.e., one that advertises you, or something you have to sell :-)).

boodad · September 2005

Hi claires,

Taking info from the "other" online community and pasting it here, to me, would not be right. Posting a link to the source is preferred. But since I am not allowed to post the link to the "other" online community, I will maintain my personal policy that folks can contact me if they want info.

I have no problem abiding by the rules here - - but I will not post cut and pasted products (instructions, pics) takened from another source (of which I do not have control of or authorization from) out of respect for the "other" online community. I understand this site's policy. Please understand my corresponding policy.

Can we handshake on that?

boodad · September 2005

Having reported the possibility of more 8-Seater options (i.e., XLE and XLE Limited)as a possibility, it appears the Sienna 8-Seater options haven't changed for 2006. That is, 8-Seaters will continue to be offered at the lower trims (LE, CE)

.

odysseyuser · September 2005

We bought a Honda Odyssey 2005 and despite the fact that we are very happy with the car performance we are very unhappy with the fact that the front bumper is totally made of plastic. There is a guard under the car that is attached to the bumper and when it broke is causing the full bumper to fall at a possible cost of several thousand dollars to fix. We were told that just to fix the under bumper we would have to pay around $500. They are claiming that the damage was caused by hitting a pot hole and therefore is not covered by the warranty. I wonder if that problem would happen on a Sienna. The Honda van is very low and just about anything will break the bottom protection and because all the screws are made of plastic, they are very easy to break. The service shop seemed to be used to the damage caused by other drivers and even asked me if I wanted to have it removed. Anyway, if you are considering a Honda think about what just happened to us. We had a Chevy Venture before for 7 years and we never had a problem similar to this. I think it is an engineer design flaw or they did it by purpose so that we would be forced to buy their expensive parts. Hopefully they will recall it and fix it for free....

boodad · September 2005

It's been discussed before - - IIRC the Sienna has an inch or two more clearance. After driving a '97 Camry with low clearance, I vowed never to get another low clearanced vehicle again. There has been some reports on the "other" websites where the Ody owners experienced the same predicament as odysseyuser had, however, many other Ody owners report no problem. YMMV.

Hopefully, odysseyuser will have goodluck with the bumper fix..

andrewtran71 · September 2005

I guess we expected Toyota & Honda to be a faster on the competition, but we were wrong.

At least the Ody has 8 seats on the EX-L +NAV+DVD.
But Neither the Ody nor Sienna has 8 seats for their top of the line.
What idots decided that?

Ody has 6-disc CD on the NAV models vs Sienna has 4-discs CD on the NAV.
Why 4-disc Toyota??

Ody's NAV screen is 8" vs Sienna's NAV is 6.5".
Sienna is bluetooth vs Ody is not.
Why not, Honda?

Ody's DVD player is mounted up front dash vs Sienna's dvd mounted on ceiling.

Ody has run-flat tires on ALL Touring models vs Sienna run-flats only on AWD.

Sienna has woodtrim vs. Ody is not.
Why not, Honda?

Sienna has gated shifter vs Ody is not.
Why not, Honda?

I prefer the driving of the Sienna, but the overall features and layout of the Ody.

So if I were to buy today, I would pick the Ody.

But deep inside, I hope Toyota will make the Sienna look more like a TRUE Lexus, instead of a Camry.

boodad · September 2005

Agree about the limited trim for 8 pax. Manufacturers should offer the 8-seaters in higher trims, too. In my case, I'm lucky to be a military man overseas and was able to land an XLE 8-Seater (built in Indiana, American spec, for the European region American military/diplomats). Send me a PM for more info.

Not worried about 4 versus 6-disc CD on the NAV models since the '06 Sienna takes the iPod/MP3 input (new feature--send me a PM for more info). CDs are fast becoming obsolete for listening to music.

Run-flats: based on owners reviews at "other" websites regarding these new tech tires, I've found them to be proprietary (not widely supported by tire garages), they're expensive to replace, they don't last long, and they rely on tire pressure monitors to let you know they're out of air (which is a problem if the sensors don't pick this up -- which actually happened to several owners). I'm not too crazy about them so this is not a feature I would look for to have anytime soon.

The bottomline is these vans would be much more expensive if they were built to each customer's whims and wishes instead of in the packages/trims found on the car lots. Just pick the one you could live with. Both are fine and are the 80-90 percent solution for carrying multiple folks, much more so (of a solution) than their competitors. I'm hanging on to my '05 Sienna for another 8-10 years - - it's really a pleasure to drive, comfortable, quiet ride, and gets decent gas mileage for a two ton beast. I'm sure the Ody would be fine, too, but I like the Sienna more

. YMMV.

Claires · September 2005

Well... actually, cutting and pasting material written by someone else is also verboten here for the very reasons you cite, so we agree :-)

mhoffman8 · September 2005

should i get the 2005 sienna le or the 2006 oddy ex? about 1500 spread between the 2. oddy more. does oddy still have transmission problems?

05ody · September 2005

I would get the Oddy EX...and I did. MY aunt has an 04 Sienna LE (no difference from the 05) and even she likes my Odyssey more and wished she would of waited for the Odyssey to redesign. I have had absolutlly no problem with my transmission, very very smooth shifts, and in fact if I never looked at the RPM gague, I would never know it changes gears :P

isellhondas · September 2005

Well, I sure don't have all of the answers...but..

A lot of people don't care for the fake wood look.

A "gated shifter" ? A big deal to very few, myself included.

DVD on the dash? What are you talking about? It's on the ceiling, of course!

Both have their advantages, I suppose. People just have to decide what is important to them!

kak2 · September 2005

Hi Claires,
Just wondering what you know about how well the Odyssey performs in snow. I'm debating between the Honda and an AWD SUV as I don't like the Sienna. We will probably do a lot driving to mountains for skiing, so need to be sure that the Honda can perform in that type of environment. Thanks.

hansienna · September 2005

Sienna for performance, Odyssey for most comfortable 2nd row seats ( all other seats comparable between the 2). The Sienna transmission has also been more reliable than the Odyssey.
In Salt Lake City area, there is a $3,306 difference in favor of the Sienna LE. Most recent SELLING prices were $ 24,900 for a 2005 Sienna LE with MSRP $27,289 and $28,206 for a 2006 Odyssey EX with MSRP $28,945. :P

ugottabekiddin · September 2005

you do know that you're not comparing apples to apples there in either model year or comparable features, right?

hansienna · September 2005

Yes, the Sienna LE and Odyssey EX are not comparable since the Sienna LE has a complete overhead console and one power sliding door while the Odyssey has NO overhead console but has 2 power sliding doors....and there are other less noticeable differences such as the Sienna having the most reliable transmission and the Odyssey EX has cast wheels standard.

rorr · September 2005

re: comparing '05 Sienna LE to '06 Ody EX -

Also remember that the Ody will have the full complement of side airbags with roll-over sensors and traction/skid control as standard equipment. The Sienna LE won't. Of course, in lieu of those very minor little safety items (really, who wants safety in a minivan?), you DO get a really nice overhead console on the Sienna.......

hansienna · September 2005

Not me. I want comfort, convenience, and reliability which makes the Sienna the first choice.

rorr · September 2005

I understand.

I just wanted to point out some of the OTHER differences between these two vehicles you put together in a price comparison to justify (to yourself) why the Sienna LE would be a better deal. Because some people MIGHT prefer the safety features of the Odyssey over the overhead console on the Sienna and be willing to pay a few extra hundred for these items on the Odyssey.

Of course, since the actual availability of these safety items on the Sienna is 'spotty' at best (at least in the Texas area when our first choice was a Sienna), then your comparison probably has more validity.

05ody · September 2005

Oh and did you hear? the Odyssey did good and made it on the list for one of the best for rear crashes. The Sienna did not do so well and did not make it.

hansienna · September 2005

No worry with the Sienna. The VERY responsive transmission and engine make it possible to rapidly accelerate at any speed so that no one can rear end the Sienna. :shades:

user777 · September 2005

very responsive transmission on the sienna... :mirror shades:

davant · September 2005

Hans,

I'm surprised with your response considering your intellect and history here. Are you suggesting that the Sienna is a warp speed rocketship while others are not? Your average rear end collision occurs near intersections. Typically, someone behind you wasn't paying attention or trys to stop too late. Obviously your Toyo bias thinking is that at say 15 MPH you can mash the pedal and jump to 70 MPH while catching a glimpse of someone approaching 50 feet or so away to avoid getting smashed from behind. Chances are, even if you had this ability, you'd not have an 'out' and in the process you smash into someone else. Please rethink your response in that no minivan today has this sort of acceleration, your response borders on BS, not in character for you.

Cheers!

jipster · September 2005

I'm not sure but I think hans is yanking your chain a bit. Isn't that part of what " :shades: " means?

I would rather have a quick responsive engine and trans in case of an emergency instead of one that bogs down for a second or two. Though it would probably come into play about as often as any other saftey feature...almost never.

hansienna · September 2005

Thanks for clarifying that my response was tongue in cheek.
davant posted a very intelligent rebuttal.

hondakid1 · September 2005

At least for me, December will show if the Odyssey can take on santa... (snow) My guess is that the odyssey's 240 horses can definitly handle the snow just as good as santa and his 9 reindeer... :P :shades: which makes up like what... 9 horses. Chicago winters definity put you cars to the test... :shades:

hondakid1 · September 2005

or should i say 244 horses for the odyssey... to many changes... gosh :P

go4sam · September 2005

Hello Friends,

I am new to this forum and this is my first post. lot of useful information I could find here.

I need help comparing the differences B/W Sienna Vs Odessy.

I test drove Odessy 2005 EX model .

I am interested in buying either 2005 EX L model or 2005 EX L entertainment system.

If I need to buy similar equavalent features model in Sienna which model should I consider. Is it XLE ??.

Would Odessy cost me cheaper compare to added options in Sienna.

Can any one help me on this.

Thanks
Sam

rorr · September 2005

The closest thing (IMO) to the Ody EX-L is the Sienna XLE w/ package #6. This package will add the traction control/skid control, leather, and moonroof (and a few other misc. doodads). The TMV as listed by Edmunds for these two vehicles is $30,249 for the Ody EX-L and $31,793 for the Sienna XLE w/#6.

Obviously, each vehicle has some features the other lacks. The biggies off the top of my head are:

Sienna - has power rear hatch, flip out 3rd row windows, overhead console w/ trip computer, power passenger seat, wood grain dash, tilt steering, and floor console that can be moved from 1st to second row. Sienna drives a bit smoother/quieter.

Odyssey - PlusOne seat for 8 seating capacity, and in-floor storage (lazy susan). Odyssey drives a bit more 'athletically' (a bit more composed in curves / a bit more responsive steering).

Both vans are pretty quick. Both vans will get roughly the same mileage (within 1-2 mpg). When I say that one is a 'bit' smoother or a 'bit' more responsive, the differences are actually (IMO) rather small.

When my wife and I were shopping, we preferred the Sienna. However, due to Toyota's Byzantine distribution plan, the actual availability of a vehicle optioned the way WE wanted was extremely small (we were seeking an XLE w/ leather, all the side airbags, and traction/VSC). We only located a couple of vehicles and the dealer's were not willing to deal. OTOH, we located several Ody EX-L's in the color we wanted (Ocean Mist) and were able to deal a bit better. In the end, we were able to get an EX-L for nearly $4k under the best we could manage for a Sienna. We felt the Sienna was better, but NOT $4k better.

That was on '05 models. You may have better luck locating what you want in an '06 model. Or your local dealers may deal differently (locally, we had better luck with the Honda dealers but that is certainly not the same around the country). Or, if traction/VSC is not a big deal for you, then the Sienna can be even cheaper than the EX-L.

hansienna · September 2005

This is THE BEST, most unbiased comparison between any vehicles I have ever read. ALL important information was clearly stated.

(BTW, I think the Ocean Mist Metallic is one of the prettiest colors I have seen on any vehicle in many years with Sienna XLE Arctic Frost Pearl the only color as gorgeous).

rorr · September 2005

THANKS!!!

.....and I tried to not even say anything crass about overhead consoles just for you! :shades: :P

As a bit of a personal postscript: for me, the Lazy Susan was a very attractive feature when we were shopping. After having the van for a while though, it's only used to store stuff that we rarely EVER need (jumper cables, etc.). For us anyway, so far it's been kinda useless. This could change when the kids get old enough (big enough) to reach into it themselves.

Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

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