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Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

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Comments

  • samautobuysamautobuy Member Posts: 12
    Hi Odyssey & Sienna Owners,

    I am looking to buy either a new 2007 Honda Odyssey EX-L With DVD or 2007 Sienna XLE with FP package(DVD included). I would like to get the experience from the owners of these vehicles including both pros and cons, so that I can make a effective decision. Any information related to comparison of these two models are also welcome.

    Please send me your valuable feedback or inputs.

    Does Odyssey engine makes more noise than Sienna?

    thanks,
    -Sam
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    Sorry to hear that you have had so many troubles with your Sienna... Having had a similar experience (different problems though) with our Ody, I know how it can throw a wet blanket on an otherwise good thing. My wife is now saying she wants to look at the Sequoia, because she can't get the 8 passenger Sienna with all the amenities she wants and doesn't think the Ody 8 passenger is a true 8 passenger (and I would agree - it's more like a 7.3 passenger). So... I am just throwing my hands in the air at this point. I may have to change forums soon, ha ha.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'll share a couple of thoughts...

    First, keep in mind you drove a loaded up, more expensive Odyssey, and are comparing to a mid-line Sienna. Of course the Ody was nicer. Probably $7 grand nicer.

    I understand why you drove that particular Sienna - you wanted 8 seats. So did I. I bought package 3, like you're considering.

    Are you open to the aftermarket? We got a giant 12.1" Jensen DVD player for the kids. It's huge! :shades:

    They watch movies and when we arrive after a 3 hour trip, THEY DON'T WANT TO GET OUT! :D

    I have to scold them, get out now or you'll get time out! NOOOO, PLEASE DADDY LET THE MOVIE FINISH! :D

    You also have more options - you could get dual head rest screens if the kids have different tastes. The Sienna LE8-3 costs about $24.8k now, and a similar Ody EX costs $26.8k. (source for prices: fitzmall.com, Browns Honda)

    That $2 grand could buy the massive 12" LCD screen plus the leather you want. Katskins makes some good stuff.

    And before people say you can't get leather in 3 rows for $1100, remember that the 3rd seat in the Odyssey is entirely vinyl, no leather at all.

    Sienna XLEs do have a leather 3rd row, but alas, no 8 seat model, so forget that.

    Think about this - don't your kids sit in booster seats anyway? Leather may not be as important as you think, given they're not sitting on them anyway. Out of the 4 of us, 3 actually preferred cloth.

    Is my van perfect? No.

    I wish you could get the JBL sound system seperately. This also allows you to fit the Solara's GPS NAV system right in the dash. That's Toyota's best and most modern GPS, better than what comes as OE in the Sienna.

    If you get the JBL, you can add NAV for $1700 stand-alone. Pay less for a better system.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    A test-drive will reveal all of this to you, and let you know the extent of what I'm about to say, but here's the short version on how they drive/ride from my perspective...

    Odyssey: Handling like an Accord, ride like an Accord (firm, car-like). Best handling minivan on the market.

    Sienna: Handling more truck-like/more numb steering, smoother ride. Best riding minivan on the market.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'd have to agree. The Ody does handle better. Ride was just higher on my priorities list for the mission this vehicle will have.

    One nice thing - the Sienna has an incredible turning radius. It actually turns a tighter circle than the Subaru Forester it replaced, and that was a compact!
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    I completely agree with everything being said. Ody wins for handling and crispness, while suffering slightly in ride comfort. Sienna wins for ride comfort - AND power, espcecially in the low end, and generally feels more solid to me, plus it has a better rating in Consumer Reports which seems to be validated by most of the owners. It's a tough choice. Sienna is very nice, but somewhat plain in 8 seat configurations. Wish they made the XLE/Limited in 8 passenger, but I doubt that's going to happen. There is the option of adding leather through the aftermarket, it's just nice to be able to find what you want on the lot. Honda does that better. The Ody is very classy looking inside and out, and it's easy to find exactly what you like; but in my mind, it's a lower quality vehicle and from what I've read in blogs and in CR, I can expect more of what I've had with my '04 model if we go that route. Does anyone have an inside line on the changes coming to the Sienna for '08? I haven't been able to find anything in my search and the dealer did not know anything either. We're in a holding pattern until something tips the scales as far as the wife is concerned. We plan to keep whatever we buy for a long time, so we want to make the best choice possible. She wants to drive a Sequoia now, just to see what it's like. As much as I like them, it's hard to think about $90 fill-ups. :cry:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    She wants to drive a Sequoia now, just to see what it's like. As much as I like them, it's hard to think about $90 fill-ups.

    Oh dear! Remember, the Sienna will be faster, better handling, and most likely more comfortable. The obvious benefit of the Sequoia is towing ability and off-road capability. Coming from an Odyssey, however, I can't see that you have needed either of those two truck characteristics in the past. Maybe you can remind your wife of that next time y'all are out shopping!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The 08 Sienna won't have any significant changes, IMO. The 06 model got a face lift and the 07 model just got a new engine.

    I don't think we'll see any major change until the next model, to be honest. Maybe a Symphony model, like they had for the outgoing 2002-2003 years (previous generation).

    The Ody is getting a face-lift by the end of this year, but the changes look pretty minor. There was nothing wrong with the current look. Check the Edmunds blogs.
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    LOL... I think she will draw that conclusion on her own. She likes BIG when it comes to cars (she wanted a minivan even before we had any children :lemon: ) but she is also very frugal. I think in the end, the Sequoia is going to lose the battle in her head, even if it wins the one in her heart :)
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    You are probably right ateixeira, but I wish they would do a Symphony model like you suggested, and make it available for the 8 passenger. If they do and we haven't purchased something by then, I think that would be a great option for us. I would personally be happy with an LE#3, but my wife said she felt like she stepped out of a Lexus, into a Camry, going from our '04 Ody EXL-RES to the Sienna LE#3 (although the acceleration of the Sienna did impress her enough to make her giggle). Not a bad thing at all, but she didn't like the sound of the non-JBL audio system and really wanted leather, and wished for a black on gray or black on tan two tone treatment on the dash like the Ody has. The important thing to know here is that my wife is someone who can't make a decision at McDonalds in less than five minutes and she hates to spend $$ unless she really feels good about what she is getting. In a way it's nice - I don't worry about her breaking the bank... on the flipside, it tends to make things like this drag on... and on...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    At the very least get the JBL sound system, then. I think that's package 4 or 5.

    Katskins leather is easy to add.

    And the JBL is paired with the movie screen, and like I mentioned you could get her the in-dash NAV from the Solara if she wants to be more Lexus than Camry.
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    How much did you say the NAV system is? That would be nice to have.
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    Oh yeah, the dealer I talked to said there were no LE#4 or #5's coming at least through September. Special order might be the best answer... it just takes so long and I want it NOW ;)
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    Just out of curiosity, I just went to the Toyota website and tried to build my own Sienna - they only let you choose option packages 2 or 3 now. So the dealer was apparently right in saying they won't produce any more pkg 4 or 5 models this model year. Anyone know when the '08 will out?
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    YES. Another GREAT feature of the Sienna that I had overlooked.

    The Sienna is a nice minivan but disappointed me when it was not better than the 02 T&C LX it replaced. As with most different vehicles I have owned, it takes months to discover things I like better with the new vehicle than the one it replaced. :shades:
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    I'll third the turning radius - amazing for such a large vehicle.
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    What was the reliability like on your T&C? I have to believe the Sienna is better in that respect. The Chrysler minis are nice, but have a rap for trouble. I've only been in one T&C - it was nice enough, but it had extremely bad shifting and the tranny felt like it was ready to blow. That was on an 03 model with 70K on it. Scared me away from them... Plus, even your 3.3L Sienna should run faster than your old T&C. 0-60 was a tick below 8 seconds for the 2004-06 models. Forbes magazine says the 07 ranges from 6.8 to 7.5 seconds, depending on FWD or AWD. Seems about right, judging by the seat of my pants as compared to my '04 Ody EXL-RES, which ranges from 7.5 to 8.1, depending on the publication. Of course no one buys a minivan for the acceleration, but it certainly makes it more entertaining to live with and drive. :shades:
  • caravan2caravan2 Member Posts: 198
    Also, don't forget Sienna has tow package, that means better cooling for transmission. I'm not sure what else would be upgraded to make it towing package. You have to buy hitch separately though.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Last I remember, the Odyssey offered a dealer-installed tow package (with transmission cooler).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It also has a power steering cooler, even the base CE model has both and it ready to tow the full rated load.

    For the Ody I think you can tow 1000 lbs, but need to add the oil coolers to tow any more than that, up to the rated limit.

    This is important for me and I'm shopping for hitches as I write this.

    I can get a Hidden Hitch and harness for about $185 delivered. The Honda tow kit runs $400 plus.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    i've seen some siennas with tow hitches hanging very close to the ground. i'd ask to see an installation before having it done.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm gonna be doing it myself. ;)

    I should look at other Siennas to see. Supposedly the OE van has very tight clearance and doesn't make that sacrifice. Might be worth the $174 for that hitch.

    Hmm, you just gave me a good idea. I could get the OE hitch, with an aftermarket wiring harness (still plug-n-play, no splicing).

    Thanks! :shades:
  • caravan2caravan2 Member Posts: 198
    Do let us know which way you go,installation challenges and how does it look?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, will do. I guess someone has to go first! :D

    Hidden Hitch runs $144, so I'll pay the extra $20 to go OE and get the lower clearance.

    Don't think I'll pay $126 for the OE harness, though, when aftmarket plug-n-play harnesses are just $35.
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    One problem: Driver's door power window worked intermittently. I had it repaired when it was 40 months old for the $ 100 deductible on the Chrysler Extended Warranty.
    The 02 T&C is now owned by our daughter and has had ZERO problems since she got it. It now has 49,300 miles on the odometer.
    Our 2nd daughter has a 1999 GC SE that has 100,100 miles with very few repairs. ( replaced "O" ring in automatic transmission at about 90,000 miles at a cost of just over $ 200). She likes her 99 GC SE better than my 06 Sienna LE.
    The Sienna is a nice vehicle but my experience has shown it is just on a par with the T&C or GC....no better and no worse. Each has advantages.
    My sister bought a new 2001 Ody EX that now has 70,000 miles. She said it has had some problems but when asked, she has never told me any specifics. Her 2001 Ody EX has THE MOST comfortable seats of any minivan. :shades:

    Based on seat comfort - ALL seats, the Ody is our first choice for our next minivan.
  • drfilldrfill Member Posts: 2,484
    I have to give the Sienna the edge:

    1. More passsenger room
    2. More cargo room
    3. Better 2nd row seating (3 comfortable, full-sized seats, center seat can slide toward the front)
    4. More power, with the same economy
    5. Available Power 3rd row seat, AWD, and Bluetooth

    DrFill
  • semenzatosemenzato Member Posts: 41
    I am looking for a new van again after 8 years.

    At 115K miles, there is nothing wrong with my 2000 Odyssey EX, really. But it's beginning to feel a little old. It seems noisier, mostly from rattles, and the engine is a bit more growly. My two children (5 and 11) didn't contribute to keeping the interior spotless. And I'd like some of the niceties in the newer models (leather, for instance).

    This time around it has to be another minivan (the Lexus will have to wait). We carpool to school with other families. That saves us a lot of time. Other cars are too small. SUVs are too wasteful. So there we go.

    When I bought the 2000 Odyssey, it was a no-brainer. Toyota still sold the smaller version of the Sienna. The Odyssey won in many respects. This time, not so much.

    I borrowed a 2006 Odyssey EX-L from the neighbors and found it very good. The handling is noticeably better than the 2000 model. I liked the "bucketness" of the front seats, and the armrest that stays put at the desired angle.

    I didn't like the changes to the gear ratio in the highest gear. On my 2000 Odyssey, engine RPM at 80mph reads 2200. On the 2006, it reads 2600. Considering that the 2006 model has five gears vs. four in the older models, it's hard to see why they couldn't keep the RPM a bit lower. Engine noise was not an issue, but I am guessing that they sacrificed a bit of fuel economy.

    Also, I was hoping that the electric door controls would behave a little more rationally in the newer models. When the driver pushes the button that opens the door right after the passenger pulls the handle, the door stops and beeps annoyingly, even though both controls are trying to do the same thing. I understand that there may be safety issues when the door is closing---but when it's opening?

    I took a 20-minute test drive of a 2007 Sienna. I found the handling completely acceptable. The engine is noticeably more powerful. The Sienna is slightly quieter, maybe. Definitely the stiffer Odyssey suspensions make bumps and other road irregularities noisier than on the Sienna.

    The Odyssey looks better, but I decided I don't care about that. Actually, that's not true. I am still trying to decide. I would like not to care.

    So far, I would go with the Sienna, for the extra power and quietness. Now for the painful parts. I like the option of an 8th seat. But I also like factory leather. This puts the Ody back in the contest.

    But then, I am infinitely annoyed by the backwardness of the Ody audio options. No MP3 jack? What are they thinking about? Do I have to keep burning and carrying dozens of CDs?

    In addition, I like factory NAV. I don't particularly care about the DVD player, but I wouldn't mind buying it if I could actually use it. The problem is that all of my DVDs are from Italy (region 2), to help the children learn Italian. I am not aware of region hacks for either the Sienna or the Ody.

    So here are a couple of questions for this esteemed audience.

    1. Are there good aftermarket options for audio system and NAV? Or are they so integrated with the dashboard that it is impossible or impractical to install aftermarket models? (If anybody has done it, a picture or two would be great.)

    2. Does anybody know who manufactures the DVD player for either or both vehicles?

    3. Can anybody tell me the engine RPM of the 2007 Sienna at 80 mph? (I forgot to check it during the test drive.)

    Thanks much!
    Luigi
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Regarding the higher RPMs in the Odyssey,

    Actually, the engine RPMs are higher in order to allow VCM (3-cylinder operation) to be more frequently used. In the non-VCM Odyssey, the RPMs are very similar to the previous generation Odyssey (we had a Granite Green 2000 EX Odyssey, and my aunt has a 2005 Odyssey EX (cloth, non-VCM).

    So, rest easy knowing the higher-rpms are actually allowing the fuel-economy saver (VCM) to work.
  • semenzatosemenzato Member Posts: 41
    Thank you, thegraduate. It's interesting to know that three cylinders at 2600 rpm use less gas than six cylinders at 2200 rpm (for the same power output).
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I'm didn't know the difference was so drastic. At 60 MPH, it seems like I remember the non-VCM at 1700 RPM, with the VCM model at 1900.
  • dps3dps3 Member Posts: 2
    I've been reading with interest as we look to replace our '98 T&C LXi AWD. Getting long in the tooth. Shying away from brand new and looks like we have many options in our area for "almost new." Dilemna presented at this point: 07 Ody EX (pretty basic) with 5000 miles for $26k vs. Sienna XLE limited (DVD w/o NAV, has HID headlights, rear parking assit, leather, rubber mats, etc) with 24000 miles for $27.5K. OK, so it's apples to oranges. Both in excellent condition. Will need to add hitch for the bike rack. Probably have some room for negotiating price.

    They both seem to drive well. This will be driven around town by my wife and kids 90% of the times. I'll saddle up for the long family trips.

    What do you think?
  • samautobuysamautobuy Member Posts: 12
    I think Sienna XLE would be a good buy, if it is 2006 or higher model.
  • fulcrum81fulcrum81 Member Posts: 9
    Anyone compared the noise level for sienna vs. odyssey? It seems sienna is quieter on local road, but seems same on the highway. In the meantime, when accelerating, sienna's engine sounds noisy, not as rhythmic as odyssey?
  • samautobuysamautobuy Member Posts: 12
    I found out the noise level is same in odyssey and Sienna of 2007 model. I drove both for the test drive and found Sienna stering is bit smooth.

    But the noise level is same for both and hence I am inclined to buy Odyssey.

    Please let me know if any one thinks otherwise.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Let's see...if you get a Sienna LE with package 4 or 5, i.e. the rear DVD player, it also comes with the JBL sound system.

    Get that - because you can indeed get a Toyota NAV system yourself and add it if you have the JBL (but *not* the standard 6CD changer, you must get the JBL sound).

    Toyota's best NAV system goes on the Solara coupe. You can buy the brand new system for $1700 from a Toyota wholesaler. You will need the dash surrounds, but otherwise it's plug-n-play.

    I found this out too late. I have the base stereo so I'd lose the steering wheel audio controls, and might have to do some splicing. No thanks, I just went with a portable Garmin instead.

    1. You can go aftermarket, of course, the 04-05 dash opening was a standard double-DIN, that's that rectangular 4" tall opening, very industry standard. If you buy an 06 or 07 you would just need the surrounding plastics, not hard to find. Again, though, you might lose the steering wheel audio controls.

    2. Who makes the DVD player? Not sure, but the sound is by JBL. In fact if you get the DVD, the JBL comes with it, so perhaps that's who makes it, I'm not sure. Just an educated guess.

    3. Not sure about the RPM at 80mph, but the Sienna is geared VERY tall. At 65mph it's less than 2000rpm. I think it hits 2000rpm at right about 62mph.

    By my math, that's 31mph/1000rpm, so for 80mph it would be...31/1000=80/x, solve for x, x=80000/31, the answer is:

    about 2581 rpm at 80mph.

    Close to your old Ody. Toyota's 2GR engine doesn't have VCM, but it has Direct Injection. It leans out the fuel mixture and manages very good mileage.

    YMMV, and speed is critical here. I've had trips of 27.6mpg, then 28.8, then 29.8. That's keeping speeds in the 50-75 range, though. At 80 you'll get noticeably less. On a trip where I limited speeds to 65mph, I was averaging 31.3 mpg, but then the speed limits increased and my mileage dropped rather quickly.

    Drag coefficient is an impressive 0.30, but the frontal area on any van is going to be great. Plus the weight, and the weight of the payload in it.

    2008 EPA numbers are 17/24 for the Ody with VCM and for the Sienna FWD models. Those are the best in the segment, basically.

    Which is better? Too close to call. If you have a light load, the Ody will kick in to VCM mode more often and offers potentially higher max MPG.

    With a heavy load my guess is the Direct Injection system in Toyota's 2GR will be more efficient. That plus taller gearing than any Ody.

    Both are your best bet to maximize your fuel efficiency, you can't go wrong with either one.
  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,382
    Just make sure you drive them over the same road surfaces - the Odyssey is far noisier on concrete than asphalt.
  • semenzatosemenzato Member Posts: 41
    Thank you Atexeira. The 2600 rpm is for the new Ody, not the old one, but, as it was pointed out, this was chosen because gearing at a higher rpm extends the VCM range. In any case, I am more concerned about engine noise than fuel consumption. That's why I liked the 2200 rpm at 80 mph in the 2000 Ody. Very relaxed. On the almost-new Ody I borrowed, engine noise at 2600 rpm wasn't an issue, but I wonder if it will stay that way as the car gets older.

    Integration with the car is nice, but the NAV systems are changing too much too quickly, and so are the audio/video systems. They make more sense for those who plan to keep the car three years and then sell it.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    My 2006 Sienna is at 1,700 rpm at 60 mph. I am suprised they would gear the more powerful 2007 shorter.

    Maybe you ment 72 mph at 2,000 not 62 mph.
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    I don't know about the '07 Ody or the '07 Sienna, but the '04 Ody I have runs right at about 2k at 80mph. I think the new ones essentially have the same gearing. I know the Sienna has a gated gear selector and there are two positions for Drive. In the left position, you only use 1st thru 4th gears. When you flick the selector to the right you are in the overdrive 5th gear. I wonder if the Ody has a similar set up and you were only running in 4th? I did not pay attention on the '07 I recently test drove and I did not take it on the freeway because I basically thought I knew it well enough, since it drove very similarly to our '04. We have very relaxed cruising on the freeway - still returns crappy mileage though...
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    The '07 I test drove recently, although I did not pay specific attention to the RPM's at 80, it seems to me that it ran somewhere around 2k at 80 and I believe the 5 speed auto was a carry-over from the '06 to the '07, so they should be very similar.
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    Regarding LE pkg# 4 or 5...

    Yes, get it if you CAN! As I recently found out, Toyota is not building any of these until the next model year. I have found a few *slightly used* 2007's with the JBL audio/DVD upgrade, but only 7 passenger models. No 8 passengers, and I'd have to have it shipped from out of state. Upper 20's/low 30's is amazing mileage for a van. Another test - drive both vans over a speed bump. The Ody is more firmly sprung and better for sporty driving, if you like your van to drive that way, but it is far noisier on rough roads, and you will both FEEL and HEAR the bump. In the Sienna you have a smoother, quieter ride on rough roads, and much better damping, though the trade off is slightly more roll in turns. For the engine, the Sienna wins, hands down.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I stand corrected, you guys are right - the gear ratios did not change from 06 to 07, they're the same.

    I'm trying to remember at what point is hits 2000rpm, because I try to stay below it. At 65mph I think it's below 2000rpm. I'll pay more attention next time to the exact speed.

    Sorry about that. So it's geared even taller than I mentioned.

    MSN writes "The extra gear allows the engine to loaf at 2000 rpm at 70 mph". That was a 2006, but the 2007 gears are the same, I've read (source is SiennaClub.org).

    Motor Trend has a comparo and had top gear revs are 60mph:

    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/van/112_0505_2005_mininvan_comparison/specs_price.html

    from those results:

    Dodge Grand Caravan SXT 1800 rpm
    Honda Ody Touring 1950 rpm
    Toyota Sienna XLE 1750 rpm

    But remember that's the Ody with VCM. Other Odys will rev lower.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    The shorter gearing is one reason I stayed away from the Ody. I felt that at the higher speeds in SD (75 mph limit) and with all the wind, that VCM would rarely be activated on highway trips, so I would be stuck with the higher revs without the advantage of VCM.
  • caravan2caravan2 Member Posts: 198
    VCM just adds one more complication to the engine. Does ODY rotate which cylinders are turned on/off. Or just the same cyl on/off all the time?
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    I've heard horror stories about the 8-6-4 engine used by Cadillac in the 1980's... I'm sure Honda did a fine job engineering the VCM engine, but it still seems like there's more potential for trouble. Time will tell...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think it turns off one bank of cylinders. So it acts like an inline 3. The valves on the deactivated side stay closed, I believe.

    ANC, or Active Noise Cancellation, is included, to reduce NVH. I wonder if it uses the higher-end stereos, hence why VCM is only found on EX-L models and above?

    Honda Motor Company knows engines, I would not be concerned about it one bit. I'm sure they tested it extensively, plus they will roll it out on other models soon, proof of its success.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, just drove a bit, and while I could not get close to 80mph I did set cruise at 55mph for a short while. RPM in overdrive was right around 1500rpm.

    That's about 37mph per 1000 rpm. Indeed, far taller than I first thought.

    The GPS was reading closer to 53mph, so the speedo might be slightly optimistic.

    Either way, it's geared very tall, and I'm happy with it.
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    I'm sure you are right about that. It was transparent in the Ody I drove, but I'd still prefer the Sienna's D.I. engine - just as good on fuel, if not better, and stronger to boot. ;)
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    "I wonder if it uses the higher-end stereos, hence why VCM is only found on EX-L models and above?"

    I don't think so. The EXL-RES I drove had the same audio specs as that used on the standard EX model. The Touring model has a higher end unit. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is the case.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In that case I'll come out and say it: I hate that Honda reserved the fuel-saving feature for the richest customers that need it the least.

    Pathetic. :sick:
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