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Thanks in advance for any insight.
Not sure what you exactly you mean by "rear audio controls." The only ones with which I'm familiar were incorporated as part of the RES.
Basically yes. I think Toyota should have made the Limited model a Lexus, basically.
Why? Well, mostly because it's unfair when people compare a "loaded" model with competitors, because Toyota offers more features. If it were a Lexus, noone would make that comparison.
Where else can you get AWD, HIDs, and laser cruise control in a van?
Below are the metric fuel economy numbers provided by the Canadian Federal Government (Natural Resources Canada to be specific) along with an exact imperial conversion to gallons and miles:
Odyssey: City: 13.3 litres per 100 kms = 3.51 gallons used for every 62.14 miles
Highway: 8.5 litres per 100 kms = 2.25 gallons used for every 62.14 miles
Odyssey: City: 12.7 litres per 100 kms = 3.35 gallons used for every 62.14 miles
(with VCM) Highway: 8.2 litres per 100 kms = 2.17 gallons used for every 62.14 miles
Sienna FWD: City: 11.7 litres per 100 kms = 3.09 gallons used for every 62.14 miles
(all models) Highway: 8.1 litres per 100 kms = 2.14 gallons used for every 62.14 miles
Hope all of this makes sense. So in essence the vehicles purchased here (in Canada) are identical to the ones in the US(as in they come from the same factories) save for the trim levels and equipment, the overall fuel economy champ up here is the Sienna even better than the Odyssey with VCM technology. Of course this doesn't reflect real-world driving.
The reason why I decided to post this was because the EPA numbers in the U.S. for both models are identical correct? Seems like when you calculate fuel economy the metric way the numbers are slightly different.
Interesting data point, though.
For MY2008, EPA numbers for the FWD Sienna match the Odyssey with VDM exactly, both get 17/24.
Too close to call. Call 'em both fuel economy champs for the minivan segment.
Maybe Honda is already working on that.
How come Honda is a little behind with the features? If Toyota has more features then the Odyssey, then why is the Ody still the number one selling minivan. Do you think if Toyota re-designed the Sienna to make it nicer looking on the outside, it might appeal to customers? I like the way the Ody looks on the outside versus the Sienna but I think Sienna did a much better job inside.
I think Dodge has the #1 selling van, however. Low prices, tons of dealers, and lots of fleet sales ensure that.
how frustrating it must be for people to be looking for a sienna with a certain feature mix only to find it can't be had in their area at any price...
its just a way for the company to appear it is addressing customer preferences, when ultimately it supports the dealerships and puts the customers at a disadvantage.
Any how, these are vans, they're not going to win any beauty contests.
Honda still has not hidden the door tracks, what's up with that?
Here are issues I had with Honda's packaging:
* have to buy leather to get VCM, which is absurd
* I didn't like the EX' cloth, and the leather was hard, so I could not get power doors at all
* can't get a movie player without leather, either
Siennas get the better gas mileage no matter which model you choose, making saving gas simple. I understand Honda will change this next model year, GREAT. Too late for me.
Sienna's cloth was nicer. I liked the LX cloth on the Honda but the EX was like mouse fur. The leather was hard, plus the 3rd row is all vinyl not real leather. Problem is if I got the only fabric I liked I had to give up power doors, 6CD, DVD, etc.
Toyota lets you buy a DVD player with cloth, it's LE package 5.
You do need a PhD to understand Toyota's option package, but once you do, it's much more flexible. For instance, you can match the Honda models quite easily, here you go:
Odyssey EX = Sienna LE pkg. 3
EX-L = XLE pkg. 6
EX-L-RES = XLE pkg. 7
EX-L-RES-NAV = XLE pkg. 8
There are a few very minor differences, but those packages mostly match up. Actually the Toyotas have slightly more equipment.
See my post above.
Note also that when I shopped local no-haggle dealers in MD the Ody EX was $26,883, while my LE-3 was $25,346, both with fees included. $1500 less, actually.
The EX did add auto-climate control and the nifty lazy susan storage thing, but the Sienna has a trip computer, power 3rd row windows, a 3rd row that can face rearward for tailgating, puddle lamps, standard tow package, cross bars for the roof racks, 22 more horsepower, and a stereo that plays WMA and MP3 files. There are a few more things I'm fogetting, too.
Remember, it was $1500 less.
It pays to cross-shop.
Toyota just didn't have the package you wanted in that region, but who says Honda got the packaging perfect anyway?
My cousin bought a Ody LX and had to have a roof rack and cross bars installed after the sale. She also had to swap out the stereo to get a 6CD changer.
If you buy a tow hitch you have not one but two oil coolers you have to install first. Sienna comes with those standard, so it's heavier duty out of the box.
I don't disagree that Toyota makes it a pain to shop with all the confusing packages, but I think you will find issues with options on any brand.
Hyundai for instance, even the Limited model doesn't come with a 6CD standard, you have to buy one in an option package. The Sienna LE comes with a 6CD standard at a lower price point. Ody gives you one in the EX, which costs more, and I'm told it will not play MP3s.
MP3 is cool becauase you can read the name of the song and artist on the stereo display. Works out of the box on a basic Sienna LE.
I guess it depends on which option is important to you. I wanted a 6CD that played MP3s - you can get that cheapest in the Sienna.
Everything on the Sienna, as with Toyota's generally speaking, is heavier duty out of the box!
Competitors' towing kits (with coolers) cost upwards of $400, not including installation.
Noone is perfect, not even Toyota.
And before the Honda folks start celebrating, can you say 7/100 coverage on early Odyssey transmissions?
Fortunately the 3.3l-3.5l van engines have been great, and yes the transmissions are rock solid.
Don't get me wrong, they are VERY nice vans and it's easy to see why people buy them. I'm pretty opinionated about cars - guilty as charged - but there are also numerous long term quality studies that support the claim that Toyota's, in general, hold up better. On the flip side, there are a lot more Honda enthusiasts that are passionate about their cars because they are fun to drive - going back to "it's just a matter of taste." For most people, the difference is not significant and the fun to drive factor compensates for any "minor issues" like blown up trannys, flimsy body hardware, and electrical problems. Just my 2 cents...
I know the Sienna is reliable, but still, there's so much that can break. Automatic doors are expensive to fix.
I'm still debating this. The nice thing is that extended warranties are amazingly cheap for Honda/Toyota. Use it once and you come out way ahead.
Well, she bought something she shouldn't have, then, because the years for transmissions that have been problematic is under extended warranty, isn't it?
I haven't heard about tranny problems lately with the current model like I did with the '99 Ody, '01 Acura CL (my friend's '01 CL tranny went out at 80k and it was replaced for free) or '03 Accords. They all got warranties
I think she bought hers slightly after the affected model years. Edit: I meant to say the years Honda chose to cover. Some later ones are still affected.
It might have been the last year of the previous generation, but I'm not exactly sure.
Her warranty was dirt cheap, something like $700 for a 7/100 full coverage. One little problem and it pays for itself.
Automatic transmission: Automatic transmission problems prompted to company to extend warranty coverage to 7 years/100,000 miles. (2000-03)
She has the previous generation, so it's either a 2002 or 2003 model, I believe. She may have purchased it before that transmission warranty was announced, though.
I think they announced the transmission warranty fairly early on, but I could very well be mistaken.
There are some reviews here that paint an ugly picture of Ody's ongoing transmission problems, as well as more of the same things I have griped about on my 04. The one person who seems to disagree with the complaints of the others drives an Impala for his other car. If that's the standard he is holding the Ody to, he's probably used to problems worse than what the Ody has. It's no wonder he loves it so much! My 04, while it drives great, has all the same nitpicks found here, especially the bad fuel economy. So it doesn't look like Honda is addressing the issues, and it appears the tranny is still a trouble spot. As good as its many virtues are, there's no excuse for not fixing this. Extending the warranty is just a bandaid. It makes me nervous about mine and I hate that feeling. It would be gone right now if the wife hadn't put the brakes on my purchasing a Sienna XLE Limited earlier this week because she still thinks she wants an 8 seater. Women!! I just hope the thing doesn't break before we reach a consensus! Seems okay for now - keeping fingers crossed.
Styling? I say c'mon, these are vans. It's like arguing which card board box looks better.
Both are inoffensive, basically. I do wish Honda would hide the sliding door tracks.