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Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

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Comments

  • rodivarodiva Member Posts: 11
    Had it for few days, everything is good except when the car is slowing down, going into garage, coming to stop, I can hear fuel tank noise inside the van, sound of fuel moving back and forth, like the water inside the barrel. The noise is always there. I took it back to the dealer right away (30 miles on it) and they say it's normal. Normal to be heard inside the cabin? this is a Sienna! they said for new model Toyota relocated the fuel tank beneath the middle seat. So where's the insulation? I paid $37,000 for this van and I am suppose to live with this noise each time. Dealer told me to turn on my radio? Anyone have same problem? please advise, many thanks in adanvce.
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    I know the sound you're talking about - almost like a "knock" when the fuel sloshes to the front or the rear of the tank. I don't know why it seems to be so hard to design a van that doesn't do this, but the Ody does the same thing, and so did our previous van (98 Pontiac Montana). I expected the Honda wouldn't do it, but it does.
  • rodivarodiva Member Posts: 11
    Older siennas have fuel tanks located in rear, now the fuel tank is at mid left and giving space on right side for spare tire. Having this design allowing fuel to have too much "free play" going back and forth. The noise is simply too noticeable inside the car. Is this a design flaw? I wonder how the fuel tank was design inside, maybe Toyota never thought about it? does any new sienna owners have this problem, or simply don't care about the noise? My brother has a 07 Honda Odyssey, honestly I don't hear any fuel tank noise. I have this toyota van for 2 days, for $37,000 I am regretting already buying this vehicle. Blame myself why didnt i ask the salesman to turn off radio.
  • moeharrimoeharri Member Posts: 108
    I would say you're probably going to have to get used to it. I have an 07 Camry and hear the same noise all the time (I bought it in May 06). Maybe this is a common Toyota problem. Our 07 Odyssey does not make this noise. Not to rub it in, but we love the Odyssey!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Our 2000 Odyssey had this tank-sloshing thing. It was no big deal to us.

    The creaky seat and the rattling power door lock slider/switch thing in the beack seat was another story.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    my '03 ODY has this behavior, even with interior baffles on the tank, i think at a certain fill amount any tank from any make is going to slosh some and if you listen for it, you'll hear it.

    i trust, it will be more noticeable when the tank is almost filled.

    don't let this detract from your enjoyment of the vehicle. right now your brain is listening for the discrepant. soon it will be background. say a week or two.
  • speterson1speterson1 Member Posts: 228
    I also have a 2007 Odyssey EX and I've never heard any type of fuel-sloshing noise.

    Good luck with a fix...or learning to ignore it!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    To answer your question directly, the insulation is in the fire wall and door sills. They added this when they went to the chain-driven camshaft in the 2GR engine family, for model year 2007.

    I've never heard the gas tank, FWIW.

    I have heard water trapped in my Miata's door sills slosh around, though.
  • siennamisiennami Member Posts: 116
    Actually, this is "normal". I noticed it when I drove the 00 LE, my 03 VW Passat, and the Kia Sedona I drove before I got the Sienna I am driving now. I always think of it as having plenty of "go-go juice". Once your gas starts getting a little low, the sound should dissipate. I'm so used to it that I hardly notice it anymore. Enjoy that new van! :shades:
  • siennamisiennami Member Posts: 116
    The XLE doesn't come as an 8-seater? I have a friend with six children who drives an XLE and hers is an 8-seater. Interestingly enough, some Toyota dealerships in my home state (South Carolina) are now offering lifetime warranties. Mine came with the car at no extra cost, and it's your basic powertrain warranty.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    As far as I know the 8 seat model only comes with the CE or LE models.

    Also, they are not interchangeable with the 7 seat models. Those have different anchors in the floors, and alloy a center console between the 1st and 2nd rows.

    8 seat models only fit one, between the 1st row.
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    The 8 seat option wasn't offered on any except LE and CE models when we were shopping. I even checked used on Autotrader and Cars.com, using XLE and 8 seater as search strings - came up with zero results. I've never heard of an XLE 8 passenger???
  • siennamisiennami Member Posts: 116
    Maybe I need to look at her car again... :confuse: I've always thought it was an XLE because it came with the woodgrain inserts, and all the other bells/whistles. However, I've since learned that those can be found on an LE also! :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My LE has that silver trim.

    I too thought wood was limited to the XLE and up models.

    But there are so many packages for the LE (13 I think) that we should not be surprised.
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    There are a couple companies that offer aftermarket wood grain "inserts." You can usually spot them right away, as they stick a lot more wood in there than the factory does, and put it in places the factory doesn't :shades:
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    The XLE has standard leather wrapped steering wheel and three zone auto climate control, as well as standard 10 speaker JBL audio. You can get the JBL audio on the LE, and I would imagine it's possible to get the leather wrapped wheel as a dealer installed accessory, but I doubt it would have the auto climate control if it was an LE. If it really is an XLE 8 passenger, I sure would like to know where she got it because my searches turned up absolutely zero results!
  • bobber1bobber1 Member Posts: 217
    I find it amusing that people think that wood colored plastic is better than silver colored plastic. :surprise:

    Okay, okay I know different people have different tastes, but I still think it's funny. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, from my experience silver paint (that's all it is) scratches off more easily than plood, so plood is more durable. That's one factor.

    Another is that silver reflects light more and can cause glare, depending on where it is. Ford Edge is a major offender, as the reflection blinds part of the windshield.

    Mostly, though, it's just personal taste.

    I call painted silver "pluminum", i.e. plastic made to look like aluminum trim. The Audi TT looked so good that everyone had to try to copy them, except with low-cost plastic.
  • siennamisiennami Member Posts: 116
    Like I said, I'll have to ask. Hers is a 2004, with the woodgrain instead of the "pluminum"; factory installed dvd player, power sliding door and power hatch. It also has the interior antenna vs. exterior. That's why I've always thought it was an XLE. Plus that's what I thought I saw on the back of her vehicle! :shades: 'Course I could be wrong. I am sure that it's an 8-seater, though, because we've talked about why she has that one vs. the 7-seater.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    LE models with the JBL and DVD have the built-in antennae.

    I'm just thrown off by the wood grain and the power hatch.
  • siennamisiennami Member Posts: 116
    It definitely has all of that! One of the reasons that I chose not to have power sliding doors is the story she told me about having to pay $800 to have hers repaired. I thought uh-uh, I don't need all that drama!

    I will, however, take another look at the back of her van to see for myself so I'll know that I'm not crazy! ;)
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    If your not crazy, then that means that we're all crazy :shades:
  • basketbbasketb Member Posts: 19
    Being in the market for a minivan I got offers for the Odyssey EX-L and the Sienna XLE with package 4 (and rear spoiler). While the Sienna is better equipped the price difference is $3200 in the quotes I got so far ($26000 for the Odyssey and $29200 for the Sienna).

    As far as I can tell the Sienna has the following above the Odyssey: rear zone automatic climate control, power liftgate, 3rd row window sunshades, trip computer, fog lights, daytime running lights, headlight dusk sensor, better sound system, and slightly more horsepower.
    The only things we really care about in that list are rear zone automatic climate control, power liftgate, 3rd row window sunshades, trip computer, and fog lights. Fog lights and 3rd row window shades could be installed on the Odyssey for around $600 or less. That leaves rear zone automatic climate control, power liftgate, and trip computer, for which we would be willing to spend another $900.
    So all in all, we would be willing to spend $1500 more for the Sienna (or max $2000 taking into account the options we don't care for). But that is still far away from the $3200 difference we currently see in quotes for the two vans.

    Does anyone like to voice an opinion why the Sienna may nevertheless be the better option?
  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,382
    It sounds as though you really want the Sienna but are struggling to justify the extra money.

    If so, the Sienna is "the better option" because it will make you happy.

    If not, your choice is clear - buy the Honda.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    me personally, i find none of the additional features as particularly valuable.

    however, as another person posted, it seems as if you really want the sienna, and if you don't get it, you'll be unsatisfied.

    so, you either need to make a mental adjustment, or go in and ask for them (for nothing), or be willing to offer what you're willing to pay for these features based on the value you feel they add vs. what the dealership is saying they add to the picture...

    but you knew that. :blush:
  • basketbbasketb Member Posts: 19
    Thanks for the feedback. The original post was not intended to convey the impression that we really wanted the Sienna more. Just trying to find out whether we overlooked anything in the Sienna that would justify to spend so much more on it. And it seems there isn't. We test drove both minivans and couldn't find a significant difference wrt. handling and riding in the vans. Therefore, I think we will be happy with the Honda.
  • rayl3rayl3 Member Posts: 1
    My research: Odyssey tires are very expensive and you have no options/choices. Toyota will take several different grades/prices. This info provided by Les Schawb Tires. An Odyssey salesman confirmed same.

    Toyota has 2 inches more road clearence. Off pavement this could be significant.
  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,382
    "[N]o options/choices" for tires for an '07 Odyssey EX-L?

    Hmmm....tirerack.com lists 9 different tires for this vehicle ranging in price from $88 to $278 each.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    perhaps you were refering to the PAX tire in the Touring? there's some speculation it will be optional on the '08.

    as for vehile clearance, i've seen a number of hitches on siennas that looked EXTREMELY low to the ground. if they had more clearance than the Honda, you wouldn't think so.
  • siennamisiennami Member Posts: 116
    Last year when I was in a better position to afford purchasing the Sienna, I didn't, and I always regretted it. If you honestly think it's what you're interested in, go for it! I really think you'll be more pleased with the Sienna, anyway. Just my .02 worth! :shades:
  • stasinouliasstasinoulias Member Posts: 2
    If you want to see the price difference shrink considerably, buy a 2008 model Sienna, which are jsut beginning to arrive -
    the XLE's are priced about $2000 less to be more inline with the Odyssey. They made the fog lights, tow package, and ten speaker stereo system optional to reduce the price. I am a sales consultant with a Toyota dealer in Milwaukee, WI.
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    I have both vans right now because we just took delivery of an artic white pearl XLE Limited, to replace our '04 Ody EXL-RES, which we now need to sell.... So let me give you my .02 worth. Even though my Ody is an '04, it drives and behaves much the same as the 05+, and according to Consumer Reports, should be about the same in terms of reliability. The Sienna does have a 22 HP advantage over the Ody, but that power is available over a much broader range of engine speeds, and thus, is much more usable power. Even the Sienna 3.3 feels stronger in the low end than the Honda 3.5 VTEC. The Honda has to wind up to about 4300 rpm to make decent power. My wife has already commented that she doesn't feel like she has to push the Sienna as hard as the Ody because there's so much more power at slower engine speeds. We are also getting great mileage - 22.9 around town, vs low teens in the Ody, and pushing close to 30 on the freeway. The Sienna's chassis has also been criticized for being "soft" compared to the Ody, but real world driving has already proven to me that it is much better in every way. It's definately smoother, but it's not clumsy, and it's quieter and more comfortable. We carefully considered the '07 Ody EXL-RES, and even though our initial impressions were very favorable, after thinking about it for a couple weeks, we decided on the Sienna for 3 main reason - 1, our current Ody has not been all that reliable; 2, there are constant electrical problems with window switches, door locks, steering wheel mounted radio controls, etc.; and 3, there is always the looming possibility that the tranny will die the sudden death that many other Ody tranny's have died. Even though it's under warranty til 100K, it doesn't exactly give us peace of mind. We are so happy to be back in a Toyota, and have to keep reminding ourselves it's a Toyota, not a Lexus - it's that good. Even the fake wood LOOKS real - it has depth and when the sun hits it, it has the appearance of having real wood grain, just like the real wood that my ES300 had. Trust me, the only place where you can really tell it's fake is on the doors, where the only real give away is that its raised up unnaturally around the window switches. If it were real, it wouldn't be fashioned that way. It looks rich. A lot of people will defend the Ody, and you can take this for whatever it's worth. I'm just telling you about my experience, but you don't have to look very far to find others with the same experience - even on the new Ody's. Check it out and decide carefully - just remember that even though the Sienna costs more initially, you get what you pay for. Find some used Ody's and Sienna's and compare how they look, feel, drive, etc. That's an excellent way to see how each holds up over time and to help you decide which one suits you best.
  • basketbbasketb Member Posts: 19
    Thanks for sharing your experience. We are probably going back to the Toyota and Honda dealerships and drive the vans again, this time back to back. The last time there was a two weeks gap between the test drives of both vans. So far our impression was that we liked how the Honda drove a little bit better. But maybe our memory played tricks on us.
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    If you are stuck on the features/price equation, go for the Odyssey. You will be happier. If your ownership experience will be tarnished by constant, minor issues (noisy brakes, electrical issues, dead batteries on a regular basis, flimsy sheetmetal, lousy fuel economy, etc.) then you will be happier with the Sienna. It's not perfect, but it's more reliable, gets better mileage, and feels more solid. If you're not bothered by those things, the Odyssey is a good looking, capable van that will likely run forever - even if it does go through a tranny every now and then.
  • bobber1bobber1 Member Posts: 217
    Well I'll have to say that I see none of the problems in my Odyssey which Go Toyota(note the name) seems to see. Toyota does have a fine product, but Honda does too as most Auto "Experts" agree on.
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    Sorry, not trying to offend anyone, bobber1. I am admittedly biased - hence my choice of screen name - but I wasn't born biased toward Toyota. My own experience combined with that of family members has led to that disposition. You are entitled to your opinion, but the problems I spoke of are fairly common with Odysseys, and are some of the reasons it only ranks "average" on Consumer Reports reliability index. I thought I was being pretty objective in my comments :confuse:
  • grahm210grahm210 Member Posts: 3
    Finally got the go ahead from hubby this week that we could take the plunge and buy the minivan that we've been saving for forever. Test drove the 2007 Sienna LE and the Odyssey EX this week (hubby prefers Sienna exterior look...for me, Odyssey had a slight edge on exterior look). After driving both of them back-to-back, the Sienna was the clear cut winner for us. It was a much smoother ride for us and the seats were more comfortable. I really liked that the back row of seating had heating/AC vents at floor level. I also felt that the visibility when changing lanes was better on the Sienna. We also have this pet peeve about stereos when there is a big jump between volume levels...the Sienna has a gradual increase, but the Odyssey had a big jump between I think level 7 & 8 (minor I know, but it was one more thing that gave the edge to the Sienna). Resale isn't as big of a deal for us since we keep our vehicles forever (we are getting rid of a Saturn SC1 that I purchased as a college senior over 12 years ago). The spare tire isn't as easily accessible on the Sienna, but that was about the only "annoyance" we found. We purchased a Sienna LE (option package #3) this morning and should be able to pick it up on Monday...can't wait! Happy driving everyone :)
  • bobber1bobber1 Member Posts: 217
    No offense taken Go Toyota. Just wanted to add a little balance as I think you bleed Toyota.... :P

    I agree the 99 to 04 Honda's had some quality issues, but to Honda's credit they seem to do a good job of taking care of their customers(particularly on the transmissions)and that's something that doesn't show up in Consumer Reports. If I recall right you had the 04 model, so you never really gave the 05's and newer much of a chance other then a cursory test drive and it sure appeared to me you had your mind made up before you got that far.

    When we were looking, our two final choices were the Honda and Toyota. We liked the styling and handling of the Honda better. We thought road noise was about the same between the two. All those are very subjective traits.

    Anyway the great thing about Democracy is that you can disagree and not have to kill each other. :D All I'm saying is that I think the Honda is a little better vehicle then you made it out to be. ;)
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    isn't it nice you have choice? volume continuity between level 7 & 8 giving a vehicle edge? :surprise: oh my - you are particular.

    now, in keeping with that level of research and comparison shopping, and also since you have waited sooooo long (good for you) for the new ride... when you get the new vehicle home, read the owner's manual cover-to-cover and enjoy.
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    "Anyway the great thing about Democracy is that you can disagree and not have to kill each other. All I'm saying is that I think the Honda is a little better vehicle then you made it out to be. "

    Actually bobber1, I'm sorry but I am going to have to kill you now. ;) kidding of course :P

    So, fair enough. But to be totally honest, I was set to upgrade to the new Ody - because of the ride/handling and styling, which I've always maintained were Honda strengths. After our test drive of the 07 EXL-RES, I was al over it and wanted to buy it that day, in spite of being somewhat disenchanted with our '04. My wife, being the more level headed of the two of us, made me wait. This was probably a good thing for me because I spent time reading CR and blogs like this and others and gradually changed my mind. It did seem that some of the issues that are present on our 04 had been corrected with the new model, but it was really CR's "average" reliability index that finally put the nail in the coffin for the Ody as far as I was concerned. Those little annoyances just get under my skin - I'm a bit of a perfectionist I guess. I still think the Ody has its merits and is a great car - I loved driving ours recently on a trip to Southern CA.... I just maintain that for a person like myself, the Sienna is a better choice. Although it concedes to the Honda on certain points, it wins on the ones that matter most to me. We have been absolutely thrilled with our Sienna Limited, but it's probably not a fair comparison as the Limited model is really much more a Lexus than a Toyota.... But if I seem to beat up on the Ody, it's probably because the automotive press is so gushy over it and my expectations were very high when we bought it and although I've always enjoyed driving it, I've been unhappy with the way it's held up cosmetically, and the minor "breakdowns" that occur regularly.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    But if I seem to beat up on the Ody, it's probably because the automotive press is so gushy over it

    That's mainly because the automotive press will praise anything that drives more like a car than a van. The Odyssey drives much like an Accord (fairly firm, sporty, not as smooth as Toyota), whereas the Sienna drives, well, like a van (smooth but kind of numb). THAT'S why they gush over the Honda. It drives like a Honda!

    My aunt has a 2005 Odyssey, and it has had some little issues that my family has never had with Accords or Civics (misaligned tailgate from factory, squeaky driver's door handle inside, etc...)
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    I agree the Ody's handling is very carlike - feels like driving a big Accord, so you hit in on the head; it's no surprise the press loves it - it is basically a big Accord. The Sienna is very carlike too, but more like the Camry... not surprising either. The funny thing that has me scratching my head, though, is the Sienna actually feels smaller from the drivers seat (although it's bigger inside) and the driving position feels lower to the ground??? I felt like I was sitting in a truck when I drove our Odyssey a few nights ago, just to compare the two. Also, I think the 17 inch wheels on the Limited give it a more car like ride and handling. Honest! Previous to this, I had only driven LE's with the 16's and they did feel noticeably softer. So far I haven't noticed ours feeling substantially less sporting than the Odyssey, but then everything about it feels different at the same time. I don't drive them the same way. I was always wanting to dip into the 4300 rpm "powerband" on the Honda for better acceleration. On the Sienna, I don't do that because it's powerband is really flat and even, so I find that I'm revving the engine a lot less - mostly because I can see how it makes the fuel economy drop!! By the way, I saw more than 30 mpg average on the freeway (average both ways) and our combined average is currently over 25 MPG!!! It's quite easy to stay above 25 MPG around town if you're not flooring it a lot. I am WAY impressed. We could never get higher than 19.9 in the Odyssey (all freeway).
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    Congrats on the new Sienna! We are sure enjoying ours. By the way, the Sienna also has very good resale value and is an Editors Choice and Consumers Most Wanted for a used van (Edmunds.com) which should help resale, should you ever decide to unload it. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I guess almost everyone compares these, eh? :shades:

    Bottom line is you should pick the one you prefer, not what anyone here says. You'll be the one driving it and making the payments.

    I did feel the Ody handled a bit better, while the Sienna had a better ride. Ody is more a driver's car, while Sienna is a bit better at coddling the passengers.

    You want a lazy susan, or a 3rd row seat that can be faced back for tailgating?

    Sienna has power vented windows for the 3rd row, the 2nd row seats tumble, it's ready to tow (Ody needs oil coolers), and the stereo plays MP3s.

    I believe the Ody has better lighting on the power window buttons, and I'm sure there are a few other little things like that.

    Most of these are subtle differences. I really wanted that 8th seat the Sienna has, which is comfortable for 3 adults in the 2nd row. That and the engine sold me on the Toy.
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    Wow, and people say I'm particular! ;) Yep, I agree with everything, although I'm still trying to figure out what makes a great "drivers car." I love to drive, but I prefer the Sienna's drive to the Ody. :confuse: I love the tight turning radius and it feels as solid as a bank vault. We love it. No 8th seat though :(
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Yep, I agree with everything, although I'm still trying to figure out what makes a great "drivers car."

    Steering with some feedback/feel, less numbness and slop in the steering/handling. A quicker steering ratio helps that feel too.
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    "Steering with some feedback/feel, less numbness and slop in the steering/handling. A quicker steering ratio helps that feel too."

    I actually get that - and don't get me wrong because I do like those qualities. But I guess I prefer the smoothness and quiet of the Sienna. I haven't really noticed the steering being sloppy or non-communicative, although there is definately less "road feel", but there's also a lot less NVH - which I like. The one thing that makes the Ody feel more athletic, if you will, is that it seems better able to make quick transitions, which would be better for driving on, say, a mountain switchback. But I don't do that kind of driving very often. Most of our driving is around town and on the freeway occasionally, where the smoother ride is more appreciated.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's all a matter of perspective.

    You say numbness and slop, but a Sienna owner might call that luxurious isolation and refinement.

    It all depends on what you're looking for.

    My other car is a Miata, so I understand the benefits of feedback and steering feel, believe me. I just don't find that stuff important in the family hauler.

    To me, the priority was comfort, isolation, smoothness, low NVH levels, etc.

    To get that I'm willing to accept the light steering and the body roll that basically goes with the territory.

    For my Miata, I wanted the exact opposite. :shades:
  • gotoyotagotoyota Member Posts: 280
    Exactly! I guess I must fall in the camp of those who prefer some degree of "isolation," if that's the term for smoothness and low NVH levels. To me, that makes it feel more refined. I've always thought of isolation as the term that defines the way American luxocruisers feel - soft, floaty, and built strictly for straight lines, but whatever. For me, Toyotas sedans and the Sienna strike a good balance between fun to drive and "isolation." Funny though, the Toyota's engine actually feels a little more "mechanical" for lack of a better term, which I prefer. The Honda is so smooth all the way up to maybe 5500 rpm where it starts to show some hint of reciprocating mass, that it sounds like a soundtrack, whereas in the Sienna, I detect a little more activity from the engine, but it's a good feeling/sounding engine, so I enjoy it. It has a nicer growl too. But others might say the Honda engine is more refined. Again, a matter of perspective I guess.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Apologies to the Honda crowd, but Toyota's new 2GR V6 (2007 and later models) blows Honda's J35 away, it's no contest.

    That's not really fair, as Toyota's V6 is new and Honda is working on updates that will appear in the Accord this fall.
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