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Comments
We just got the 2009 Odyssey EX-L with RES and I cannot detect when the VCM goes on or off (except for the "ECO" Indicator). It does make me feel good when the "ECO" light shows up . When I am driving down the highway, it comes on quite often.
VCM: For me I can not tell when it goes on and off.
For those with VCM issues, in 2007 or 2008 I believe Honda switched to VCM 2 which should be smoother than the old VCM. So unless you are testing the latest and greatest, your experience does not apply to new ody shoppers.
What surprised me about VCM: it goes on/off .... a lot. I thought once you where up to speed, the ody would think about it and then decide to switch a cylinder off, something that would happen a couple times a trip. But in reality iyou let up on the gas just a little, or go down a bit of a hill and it's shutting down cylinders.
I posted this above but it bears repeating: The Sienna gets a poor rating from IIHS on rear crash protection. It's amazing that consumer reports and parents magazine would pick as a top minivan something that has good safety ratings only on 3 sides.....
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/head_restraints/headrestraints.aspx?toyota
Look at real-world tests - CR got the same mpg for the Ody and Sienna, and C&D got 3mpg better in their Sienna driving on the exact same roads.
As soon as I let off the gas to coast or brake my trip computer immediately jumps to 99mpg on the "instant mpg" readout. Works just as well (better?).
The rear crash protection you cite is really just an evaluation of the head rests.
Infants, toddlers, and little kids in boosters don't even use them - you would have to evaluate the child safety seat they are in instead, to see what sort of whiplash protection they offer. If you want your kids to be safe make sure you research how well their safety seats are rated, not a headrest several feet too high to be of use to them.
You're better off taking those off completely to increase visibility - your van will be safer that way.
Think about it.
http://www.iihs.org/ratings/head_restraints/head_restraint_info.html
The dummy used is an average-sized adult male, so these ratings do not apply for kids or even my wife.
Also, they have not even performed the dynamic test at all on the Sienna, so the ratings are based on static measurements only on the front driver's seat only. That doesn't take the seat frame into account at all.
Third, for the Ody they specify "EX model seats (AHR)", so the results don't necessarily apply to all models.
While shopping for a new minivan, I discovered I can buy an Odyssey for thousands of dollars less than a comparable Sienna or Town and Country.
Has resale value of Odysseys been much better than Siennas because Odysseys have few options that depreciate faster than the base vehicle? A less expensive used Odyssey LX costs more than a used Sienna LE.
It's not that the Ody costs thousands less, it's that you just got a terrible price quote on the Sienna.
Keep shopping. Everyone got better prices than you did, by far.
And with a handle like "toyojunk", do you honestly think people believe you're seriously shopping for another Toyota? I don't.
Handling? haha were talking about minivans here, besides my Sienna handles just as well as any Odyssey I driven, but I have tons more power and can get better gas mileage.
By the way dumping the stock tires on the Sienna improves handling tons, we have a set of Yokohama Avid's on ours and it's like night and day.
As Hause points out, the Odyssey isn't superior, but instead, different. The Sienna offers more usable power, better fuel economy, and a more family-oriented soft ride. I do disagree with him about the handling being as good in the Sienna, but hey, disagreements are allowed, right?
The Odyssey has better seating options, more carlike handling, and in my opinion, better styling inside and out.
We know you dislike your Sienna, but putting words in other people's mouths is going a little far, hans. Neither is the "Best" or the "Worst." Both are excellent options, which appeal to different people.
For all the hype about Ody handling you would think Honda would at least include a dead pedal. Seriously, how can you even talk about handling when there is no real deal pedal for your left foot?
A deal-killer omission, IMHO, even if I had been shopping for handling vs. ride comfort.
Unless Honda has fixed that since I last test drove one? :confuse:
You are the one who didn't do their research. You are the one who failed to negotiate a good deal. You are the one who continues to lie and spread misinformation disparaging the Sienna. What you are doing is wrong. Stop it!
Don't take my word for it, read the Prices Paid thread.
There are many positive attributes in the Sienna but the problems tend to obscure this fact.
AND, someone commented on lack of a foot rest!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reading the various forums, would indicate I am not alone with the these issues. Many with far more than I have stated.
I sure hope the next van will fair much better. Odyssey is at the top of the list but I still want to check out the VW Routan which uses the Chrysler chassis. Nor have I ruled out the T/C. Had a Dodge Caravan which had over 120,000 and had less service bay time than the current Sienna.
Seriously?
My 07 has been trouble-free and that was me that mentioned the dead pedal, which is more than a foot rest BTW.
Without a Recaro-style seat with big side bolsters it's all you've got to hold you in place, especially with flat seats and slippery leather.
Best pic I could find had an aftermarket cover on it but here goes, it's the left-most in this pic:
Buy the Odyssey.
Actually 07 Sienna's aren't affected by the door weld problem, only 04-06 Sienna's and they replace it free of charge. Our 04 didn't have the problem and our 04 had 90,000 miles.
Sludge affected only a handful of 1st generation Sienna's.
I agree with siennami please just trade your Sienna in, if you really own one, so you can stop annoying everyone.
The current 3.5l 2GR engines series has been excellent.
The prior 3.3l V6 engines were also very reliable.
Sure, if you go back 3 generations, to the long-ago phased out 3.0l V6, you will find cases of sludge.
Funny thing is he probably knew that when you purchased his 2006 Sienna, so he didn't care then. Actions speak louder than words.
"2004 THROUGH 2007 TOYOTA SIENNA DOOR CHECK MOUNTING PANEL WARRANTY ENHANCEMENT".
Why didn't all 2004 thru 2007 Toyota Sienna Owners receive their copy - or, do some who claim to own a Sienna NOT actually own a Sienna?
I wish it was, though. Free warranty. Think about it.
And it's not like other vans haven't had sliding door problems, including early Odys.
Someone just asked volvomax the trade-in value of an 07 Ody in the RWTIV thread so this should be interesting. What triggered hansienna's rampage against the van he chose to buy and previously regarded well was the low-ball offer to trade his van at his dealer.
You buy at retail, you trade/sell at wholesale, and EVERY seller will be disappointed with the offer.
You know the history of your neighbor's car, in this case, so I think that's your better bet.
See if you can still buy an extended warranty to cover the Ody. They would be under a grand if it were new, the catch is you're over the 60k mile powertrain warranty so you may not get the same good pricing on the warranty.
I the Sienna were a one-owner used car I'd lean towards the newer van that's still under the powertrain warranty, but I believe the fact that it was used commercially as a rental voids that warranty anyway.
I would pass on the rental and buy your neighbor's Ody.
If you really don't want to take option 3, Then I say go with the Ody. It is better equipped, you know and (presumably) trust the previous owner and the price is lower.
I never would go near a rental vehicle. Everyone I've know who thought they were getting a deal buying a car off the rental lot ended up paying through the nose for repairs.
We purchased an 03 Mitsubishi Galant from Enterprise in 2004 w/ 30K on it and it worked great... no major repairs at all. We had it until 12/07 when I was the center vehicle in a 5-car pileup on the highway... which I walked away from!
Two weeks later we purchased a 10mo 2007 VW Jetta that had been part of a fleet program. We have yet to do anything w/ it other than change the oil and purchase a new set of tires (just last month). The car had 11K on it when we bought it, I have a 50mile commute each way round trip and it has been an excellent car.
On Monday we picked up a certified used 2008 Sienna LE from a Toyota dealership. We are really happy w/ it so far but it's only been 3 days!
Interestingly, every Sienna on their lot was classified as a former rental car according to their CarFax reports.
I definitely wouldn't dismiss a former rental car when purchasing a used vehicle!
If the neighbor banged up that Ody and didn't bother to fix it, that may raise a bit of concern. Then again the price is good and at least you know the history. If you're OK with the cosmetic damage, it could be seen as a bargain. If you have to fix it, not so much...
Good luck either way. Let us know what you decide.
# 2. To get comparable features, compare an Odyssey EX-L to a Sienna XLE. To get the comparable features, forget a Sienna LE because the Sienna XLE has to have the optional leather and sunroof package to be comparable to an Odyssey EX-L.
# 3. IF you buy a used vehicle with scratches and dents, you won't have to worry about them in the future.
# 4. Depends on your needs: The Sienna LE has THE most space behind the 3rd row seat if you need to take a lot of luggage on trips BUT the Odyssey has the MOST comfortable seats for all passengers with separately controlled temperature for the driver and front passenger.
# 5. Most people do NOT have problems after buying a former rental or fleet vehicle.
Lionel
Also 60k miles odyssey for 14 k which needs work done..Seriously,avoid it.A used 2 year newer Sienna with 25k less miles is definitely better.You can negotiate with the dealer for 1k or1.5k less
And it still has powertrain warr..A rental car is well maintained by the rental agency.Most used cars on dealers lots nowadays are ex-rentals.Dont worry too much about it being a rental..
So my advice--Go with Sienna ..Just MHO.
Ody LX ~= Sienna CE pkg 2
Ody EX ~= Sienna LE pkg 3 (this is what I got)
EX-L ~= XLE pkg 6
EX-L-RES ~= XLE pkg 7
EX-L-RES-NAV ~= XLE pkg 8
Toyota shuffles the packages each year, so it's hard to get an exact match, but you can come close.
A lot of folks assume an Ody LX = Sienna LE, but that's not the case at all. The LX is the base Ody, and the LE is the mid-line Sienna, so it comes with more equipment (6CD changer, steering wheel audio controls, puddle lamps, power 3rd row windows, roof rack cross bars, lumbar, fold flat passenger seat, heated mirrors, etc.).
Not to mention, I'm not even sure that Toyota builds a Sienna LE without at least package 1, and that would add one power sliding door, a trip computer (only on the Ody Touring), and a universal garage door opener. So in reality the LE pkg 1 is about half way between the Ody LX and EX, probably closer to the latter.
This was true in 2007, at least, though of course Honda and Toyota change content slightly (adding and removing stuff, by the way) each year.
We should have a cost-cutting police thread. For 2008 Toyota deleted daytime running lights from some models, though all you have to do is insert a fuse. The Tow Prep package (a pair of oil cooler) also became an option, rather than standard. They did add Bluetooth, but IMHO they cost-cut more than they added.
I would not buy another Honda. Why do you think your neighbour is buying the Highlander?
I'm new to the group and have a few questions. My wife and I are looking for a minivan and thought we had settled on the Odyssey. However, my wife is very tall and can't get comfortable in the Odyssey; it has a "hump" where her left foot needs to rest, and the edge of this hump is not wide enough to properly support her foot. She tried adjusting the 8 way driver's seat, steering wheel, etc, and still could never get comfortable. Someone suggested putting an angled block of wood in this area and velcroing it to the floor (apparently gluing or nailing it in might void the warantee). My concern is that this may possibly slip or rotate and compromise safety.
By contrast, my wife was easily able to get comfortable in the Sienna, but I am concerned over both its poor rear crash test ratings and its 4 star driver protection rating (whereas all other new vans I have read about had a 5 star rating here).
Any thoughts?
Thanks!
Phil
I would go with what makes you and your wife more comfortable.
Seriously it's a good van. I love my Honda, but there is nothing wrong at all with Toyota. Their safety record is nearly equal.
The rear crash test depends substantially on headrest design. To score well, many have adopted headrests that tilt forward substantially (see the new Outback / Legacy, for example). Many find these a bit uncomfortable, and some end up turning the headrest around, defeating the design. The Sienna headrest design is a bit old, and should be updated with the redesign (due early 2010). But, rear whiplash, while more common than other injuries, is also a much less significant risk than damage from front or side impact. One site I like is informedforlife.org, who takes the different safety ratings and combines them into one statistic (driver fatality risk). The Sienna scores well (63, median of 100, lower is better; this is best 10%), but Odyssey is a little better (53, best 1%).
So, I'd say they're pretty close safety wise, and would go more for comfort.
Due probably to a sour economy and mounting losses related to the Odyssey, Honda now refuses to stand behind their product. You can only assume their are trying to stop the bleeding. Their customer service people are about as rude, harsh and disrespectful as any group I've ever encountered...likely because of the constant pressure of dealing with hacked-off Odyssey customers.
I can only give one piece of advice: Do not buy an Odyssey. Run, don't walk, from the dealership. Do not buy a Honda of any kind...you will be sorry. Believe me, you will be sorry. It may not be immediately, but you will be sorry. Honda has gone the way of GM - fat, complacent and now flipping the middle finger to the people that made them what they are.
There are some good new crossovers that do what the minivan does....do some research and purchase one.
1) Navigation- on ALL Siennas you can't operate the nav while moving (much to our surprise all 4 of the Toyota dealers we spoke to 'didn't realize that'. I'm sure someone else has posted this here, but I'm just conveying my personal experience. So long as I or my wife sitting in the PASSENGER seat can't enter a destination while moving, its a dead deal. Our finding are that only Acura and Honda allow that. Ya'd think if safety was that much of an issue that they'd put a sensor in the passenger seat to allow use of the nav while driving IF someone was sitting there. Secondarily, many times said, the nav controls S**K vs Honda/Acura.
2) DVD controls. Even in the 2010 Sienna the ONLY way you can put a DVD in is REACH BACK and bend like a Circque du Soleil performer. Ody- right in front of you in the front. And Toyota wants to talk safetly!? Up to 2009 Sienna the remote control for DVD required us to REACH back again to control the DVD vs in Ody just hold the control and point anywhere in car. HOW CRAZY is that! 'nuff said
3) Lastly, run-flats, I'm sure many times mentioned here: BOTH of our Siennas had run flats and got about 12-15k miles per tire. That is INSANE.
4) 2010 Sienna, NO apparent solutions to ANY of our top 3 issues.
Just my personal experiences. You decide. Don't hesitate to comment and I'll provide responses. thx!
We have a dual screen DVD system that works great and this way each child (we only have two) has their own screen. It also allows one or both of them to use them w/ headphones. It has a remote control, but there are also controls on the "main" screen of the player, and dd can handle them just fine.
Our nav system is one we can move from car to car and doesn't require the car to be still before reprogramming.
FWIW, we make our decisions on which vehicle to buy based on how reliable the engine is, the safety features and how it drives. The "extras" are just icing on the cake....and obviously can be obtained elsewhere!
Another upside to not having the player installed is that we only put it in the car when we are planning trips 1hr or longer.... so the kids can't ask to watch it when we are just running around locally!
No we can't do the rearview cam unless we do something aftermarket...but we weren't all that interested in it ....it would of have been nice but it wasn't all that important of a feature. I was more interested in the side airbags and how many upper tether anchors were available (for car seats). Oh and I'm loving the full "eighth" seat too!