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Comments
Usually I buy a Consumer's Guide book each model year, but my most recent one is 2008. It's late for an 09 so I'll probably wait until the 2010 model year edition comes out.
I like the format they use - makes it easy to see what you get with each model. They will list the LX, then they list the EX and say "EX adds: ...".
Even for the Sienna they list each package for each model. It reads like a menu, so it's simple to find what you want, if it is available.
The Ody will have dual zone climate control, FWIW, while the Sienna has a trip computer.
You'll find minor differences in equipment like that, but I agree those are roughly comparable models.
I opted for the Lotus Evora's engine.
The Sienna is a good van if a person wants the most cargo space behind the 3rd row and is satisfied with an uncomfortable front passenger seat, uncomfortable 2nd row seats, and overpriced Toyota routine maintenance.
Your post about the Sienna are getting old. I agree with thegraduate.
Everyone knows that.
Manufacturers set pricing on the vans, though, and here's what you had to say 2 years ago in the "2008 Minivans" thread:
I agree that the Odyssey is the MOST expensive and the Sienna has the MOST power at the lowest price
That's quoting you, hans. :P
HOWEVER- I have not been too pleased with the Sienna. First- we had issues with the cooling system. We've had various mechanical issues (tailgate; back up sensors, you name it). Mechanically- it just doesn't live up to our Toyota expectations. And my chief annoyance complaint- the LOCKOUT on the Navigation and DVD. Yes- I eventually figured out how to override the lockout on the Navi- but, just look to Hertz- you press the "I agree" for liability, and then the Navi is unlocked. For the DVD it's even more problematic. My husband or I have to sit in the front seat, lean the chair all the way back so we can see the screen and handle the controls, while we're on trips. It's just ridiculous. If no passenger is there- I have to drive, and lean back and fiddle with it. Really safe.....
Now- I love the comfort of the Sienna. Personally like the interior wood vs the aluminum look in the Odyssey. But not sure I would buy another until Toyota starts to listen to the consumer more.
Did you ever heard that the dealer wants you to buy the car before they tell you if you are qualified for finance or not?
Manufacturers should use the airbag sensor in the passengers seat - if a passenger is there the Nav screen should be unlocked automatically, because it means you have a co-pilot to enter destinations.
Voice commands help somewhat, but this is what all manufacturers should do.
Check out the Sienna Nav threads, people have figured out ways to hack the system, involving creating a hybrid DVD yourself.
I agree with your suggestion, though. They could learn from Garmin.
I did not have to finance, though. Rates will vary by your credit score. What I suggest is you get a rate quote before you go to the dealer, then have them match or beat it.
There are also no-haggle dealers that take some pressure off, here in the Mid-Atlantic that includes Fitzmall.com and CarMax Toyota Laurel.
Best of luck.
http://experience.toyotarewardsvisa.com/
Interesting that someone was complaining about service being expensive - now you can get 5% back on any Toyota service plus 1% anywhere else. No cap at all, though.
Subaru has such a program but you get 3% back no matter where you shop, though they cap it at $500/year.
This user just shared a fix that may also help you, if you're still looking:
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0e6c06/178#MSG178
Do eight adults fit "comfortably" of is it recommended just for short trips?
Where ever I saw description that said 8-passenger, I eventually got something that "indicated" 6 adults and two children.
Any thoughts or advice?
I don't think I would put an adult there (between the car seats) for a 10hr trip but I would think up to an hour or two would be fine.
Per C&D's specs, the Sienna's interior has:
1st row: 66 cubic feet
2nd row: 60 cubic feet
3rd row: 51 cubic feet
That's pretty darn roomy.
For comparison's sake, I have the Feb 08 C&D issue in front of me, and I looked at the compact SUV comparison. The roomiest 2nd row of those 9 crossovers was the Jeep Liberty's, and that has 50 cubic feet in the 2nd row.
So the Sienna has more room in its 3rd row than even the roomiest soft roader has in its 2nd!
Unless you're talking about 8 NBA players you ought to fit just fine.
Also for reference, Honda's 2008 brochure says it has 171.4 cubic feet of passenger space in the LX and EX, and 168.3 cubes in the EX-L and above (the small loss is probably due to a moonroof, I'm guessing).
That's also quite good, but the Sienna's adds up to 177 cubes so it's a tad bigger.
The width of the 2nd row seats in the Sienna are 22" for the outer chairs and 20" for the middle chair.
My office chair is exactly 20" wide and I sit in it for 8-9 hours every day.
I haven't measured the 3rd row, but you may want to do that, better yet take the whole gang with you to sample it in person.
Best of luck. :shades:
There is nothing "mini" about minivans these days. On a recent trip we visited people with 12 y/o Chrysler and 15 y/o Honda minivan. Our Sienna was significantly bigger than the Chrysler and dwarfed the Honda.
I agree...the third seat is a "full size" seat and I have way more room there than in the back seat of our sedan (VW Jetta)!
In Japan they still sell 'em, I think. Found a pic - JDM Odyssey:
I like the concept of the Rondo and Mazda5, but they're a tad too small. The Mazda5 really only seats 4 comfortably, as you can't get a bench for the 2nd row (in the USA). The 3rd row in both has zero legroom.
The JDM Ody is bigger.
Subaru also has an Exiga model based on the Forester that is sold in Japan and Australia only, for now. There is no LHD version so no hope for US production of that car. It's a bit small, though, here's a pic with a human for scale:
Your insights and information are very helpful.
There is a lot of good vehicles in the rest of the world that would be sold here if not for the over regulation of our so-called free country. SUVs would probably never taken off and we'd use less fuel as a country if only those choices were there for us.
a few questions on my sienna le 2010
1- is there a way to make the power outlets work while car is turned off. i want to charge my cell phone overnight in the car while it is locked.
2- it said in the manual that you had to have the dealer change certian settings like the way the interior lights cycle or if you want the chime to silence when you lock or open the car....anyone know where to find how i can do this? my old car was a series of turning the key on and pressing the break pedal etc.
i did switch these door locks action when putting the shifter in park, so i thought there should be ways to do the others.
3- the lower / larger glove box opens once and i feel like it should open one more position for easer access but do not want to force it...does it open once or twice?
thanks in advance,
glad i found this forum!
2. Yes, in fact besides the change you mentioned I was able to turn off the seatbelt chime for the passenger seat. Why, you may ask? Because unlike the Odyssey the front passenger seat can fold flat, and when you sit in the back and use the back of the seat as a foot rest (to lay down and watch a movie), it fools the sensor into thinking someone is sitting there. You could of course fasten the seat belt before you fold the seat flat, but I find it easier to just turn off that buzzer. I remind everyone to fasten their seat belts anyway.
Now, do I know the specific procedure? Nope, sorry. I found it online by searching, though, so don't give up. The forum where I found my solution doesn't exist any more, but ask around in the Sienna threads, odds are someone will remember.
3. AFAIK, it opens to one level. It's pretty deep so they probably don't want all that stuff spilling out.
i understand the battery saving idea but i have charged many cell phones overnight in different cars with never a problem and i think toyota would let us decide to take the chance if we wanted.
and i will keep searcing for ideas on how to customize the car the way i like.
I'm an aftermarket fan myself. 12" DVD player, Garmin GPS, and I'm still thinking about a tow hitch (in 07 Siennas came standard with the tow prep package).
Good luck.
I would like to know which minivans have the best visibility, especially for changing lanes and merging, which ones have the best and brightest headlights (I'm not getting any younger!), which ones are most reliable, and if all minivans now have skid plates on the bottom of the vehicle to prevent fires if some debris were to be caught on the bottom of the vehicle.
Also, if anyone else transports large dogs, what vehicle would you recommend? Thanks!
Where do we start?
Minivans in general have excellent visibility. They are upright, so most of the glass is vertical and tall, narrow pillars help even more. No styled D-pillars here, just nice big boxy windows all around.
Coming out of a Mazda3 they will feel big, relatively speaking, of course. Smaller than a Mazda CX9, though, and with fewer blind spots.
The side mirrors are also enormous, at least on my Sienna. That helps.
They're tall, though, so visibility straight behind can be tough. I bought a fish-eye lens, or you could get proximity sensors that beep, or even better a backup cam which comes with Navi on both the Sienna and Odyssey.
Lane changes and merging are a snap, no issues at all. Keep in mind these are shorter than a Taurus, for example. Backing up is your biggest concern, because the rear windows are high up.
I find the standard headlights are fine on my Sienna, but you can get HIDs on both of these vans, if you get them loaded up.
Skid plates - no. But then again, most crossovers wouldn't have those, either. You'd pretty much have to step up to a truck-based SUV to get that sort of thing. The Sienna has an inch or so more clearance, which may help. The AWD Sienna has even more.
You may want to consider a compromise solution, like a tall wagon (Mazda5, Kia Rondo), or maybe a compact crossover with good visibility (Subaru Forester).
Remove all the seats, though, and the power sliding doors would give low step-in access to half a dozen great danes in any minivan. Tie their harnesses to any of the seat anchors to keep them safe.
Woof!
As the brilliant economist Thomas Sowell says, "There are no solutions; only trade-offs"
In my research I have found that the Sienna has more "oomph" and better braking and headlights. However, the Odyssey gets somewhat better marks in safety tests. Oddly enough, neither of them do all that well in the complicated rear end collision tests that some group has devised. It's all based on the configuration of the head rests, etc., and not on any real-world test or outcomes, so I don't know how much stock to put in those ratings.
I have test driven both vehicles now, and so far, I like how the Sienna handles better than I do the Odyssey. Funny, since many reviewers say the Odyssey is better on that score. Oh well, we all like different things.
Skid plates (sometimes called underbody protection) are available on some vehicles, but not on these minivans. Perhaps it is not considered to be that important.
Woof, to you, too.
You are correct, in fact the vehicle is not crashed - they basically use a sled to test the seats.
And note that the Sienna has not actually been tested yet. The score is preliminary and based solely upon static measurements - the distance of the headrest to the dummy's head. It could do well or score poorly if they eventually do actually test it, who knows?
like how the Sienna handles better than I do the Odyssey
Take 2 aspirin and call me in the morning.
Just kidding.
You're definitely in the minority, but I will say I think the Sienna has a better ride and is generally more isolated from the road, which passengers may prefer if they want a quiet, soothing ride.
The Ody provides more feedback - tire noise, road noise, most importantly - steering feel, which many drivers use as inputs to adjust their driving. The Sienna's steering has less feedback than my kids Nintendo Wii Wheel.
Like lots of things - a trade off.
I'm looking at the Ody, the Sienna, and perhaps the new Subaru Outback. I like driving the Mazda5, but it's a bit too small and very underpowered.
Honda will soon add a competitor to that segment - the Accord CrossTour.
The Odyssey drives like a scaled-up Accord; tight, accurate steering, slightly lower seating position, and less isolation from the road and noise. A good option if you really "like" to drive, but need a van.
The Sienna is more Lexus-like; quieter, more softly sprung, but isn't nearly as carlike. The Odyssey drives like its smaller than it is.
The Odyssey is your choice if you drive it every day (unless you crave power, which the Sienna offers more of without an economy penalty); the Sienna is likely to be the choice of your passengers, as its quieter and softer.
Hope my opinion helps you a little!!
Happy shopping!
Thank You
i went with the le evp#2 and never looked back.
i am very happy with the van and think it feels great when i "drive" it....... when i "push" it, i am in love with the power and response.
i also feel the handling and ride are great for me and my family.
good luck whatever your choice.
I usually tell people to buy what you love.
In this case, though, $5 grand is a whole heck of a lot of moolah. You've got 3 college funds to build.
Get the Sienna but spend part of that $5 grand getting, uh, a TV for your bedroom.
You will find plenty to like - the engine, the smooth, quiet ride, and if you're looking at LE models, I strongly suggest the 8 passenger model.
Your wife will love-Love-LOVE the front-and-center seat for the baby. She'll reach him/her from the front seat. The other 2 kids right there in the 2nd row, and 99 cubic feet of cargo space in the dungeon.
Driving your 3rd home from the hospital, I bet you'll agree that was the right call.
Good luck with whichever van you end up with.
The Toyota salesman told me that the new Siennas all have active head restraints. I don't know if this will make a difference in the ratings for rear end collisions in the future.
The Honda has better real world loss ratings (not by much), but both the Ody and the Sienna are above average. In the real world, it is almost always better to be in a large vehicle like a minivan or SUV than in a compact car. I can't even imagine what happens to those tiny smart cars in a wreck. No thanks!
I'm going to the Honday dealer Sat. morning and following it up with the Toyota dealer and will make a choice next week. I'm just going to tell the Honda dealer my situation and see what they say. It would be hard for me to justify an extra $5K for something we slightly like better... Then again, we've only test driven the Sienna up until this point, so we'll see.
Interesting point on the 8th seat. My wife said that with the 8th seat in the Sienna, you lose the 2nd row bucket seats that come with the 7 passenger and instead get the bench like seats (my wife likes the bucket seats). My point was who cares - we have young kids. I'll definitely look into that though. It sounds like either way I go I won't make a bad decision. I just wish the Honda had some sort of deal going on now. Ah well... Thanks again for your opinions. Any others are welcome!
You can bet on it.
Every single current Honda model scored better than its predecessor, both cars and trucks, when this feature was added. No exceptions. Ody was Marginal as recently as 2007.
One generation ago, all Hondas scored Poor or Marginal. Now they all score Good. Rigdgeline was the latest improved model, for 2009.
This is good because it forces manufacturers to improve their headrests to match the competition.
The bad things is that the headrests are closer and may feel a bit intrustive, so try it out. I liked my 98 Forester headrest better than our 09, but safety is probably more important than comfort.
Avalon and Corolla went from Poor to good for model year 2009, as well.
You still get individual 3 bucket seats, only you lose the arm rests.
So it goes from captain's chairs to bucket seats, basically.
Keep in mind the kids will be in boosters and infant seats. You need as much width as you can get to fit 3 side-by-side. I simply got booster seats that had armrests (still using those) and cup holders.
For sure take those seat with you. I doubt you can get 3 to fit in the Ody's 2nd row, and then the kids draw straws - loser sits by himself in the 3rd row. That's no fun.
Also, with the middle seat all the way forward, they're staggered, so the baby is closer to mom. I'm not sure but I think in the Ody the seats move fore/aft together, so you can't really do that.
Let me look for a pic...here's one, that middle seat slides several inches forward:
This pic is HUGE but it really demonstrates what I'm talking about quite well, note how the middle seat is half a foot closer to mom:
http://www.familyeditors.com/craigslist/Sienna_flexseating-2.jpg
Overall width is greater, too. What they did was move the outboard seats farther out, to make room for a 20" wide middle seat. The outer seats are 22".
3 kids will fit easily. I put 2 kids in boosters plus a nanny in the middle, and everyone is comfy. The back is so huge that way we can fit the kids' bicycles inside.
The seating arrangement is the main reason I bought it. Unbeatable versatility for 5, at any price, period.
You do give up captains chairs to get it, but if your van is mostly used to haul children you have to ask yourselves if they will even notice. I've ridden the middle bench when taking a break from driving long trips and found it fine and comfortable.
Get a 12" DVD screen like mine. Kids will love it. Mine came with 2 wireless headsets but just plug-in the 3rd when the baby is old enough. That was $900 installed.
Spend the $1100 on a 46" TV for your bedroom, wall mount, LCD. That way you'll have something to do and won't end up like the Duggars:
:shades:
I think they had #18! :surprise:
Depends on who you ask. I think I've mentioned here before, but will again for the sake of a new poster, my girlfriend has three little cousins, 3 years, 5 years, and 8 years. The 8 year old boy loves having the back row to himself for coloring, hot wheel driving, and no need for extra elbow room for playing on his little Nintendo DS. The girls (3&5) don't touch each other in their captains chairs/booster seats, so fights/quabbles don't happen readily. They have an older Navigator, but seating is the same setup as the Odyssey, but without the extra "PlusOne" seat the Honda offers for those moments when you need 8 passengers.
Depends on the kids ages and temperaments I guess. Just wanted to add a differing idea here, something you might not have thought about. Atieixeira won't lead you astray, and frankly, neither van is a anything less than a good bet.