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Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Add a movie screen there, and trust me, they'll all fight for the 2nd row. :shades:
  • bobber1bobber1 Member Posts: 217
    I think the whole having 3 car seats in the middle row is over rated unless you have triplets or something. We have 3 kids and part of the reason we like the minivan is because you can spread them out! Unless your kids are 9 months apart, most times the oldest can go to the back row and buckle himself in with out your help.

    I remember when we were looking I honestly didn't remember the Toyota and Honda being that different in dimensions. Perhaps the Toyota is a touch wider, but I recall the leg room and head room being better in back of the Honda.

    If your goals is 3 car seats in the middle row(which is only going to last a short time anyway) go for the Toyota. I having to think for most families that's a nonissue. It was for ours...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just to clarify, it's not that the van is wider, it's that the seats themselves are set farther apart, to make room for a 20" seat in the middle. You can remove that seat and leave a huge 20" gap between the two kids if you want.

    I'll compare the 8 passenger Sienna to the 7 passenger Sienna - the whole stamping of the floor is different. The seat anchors are in different locations. None of the seats are interchangeable at all between the two models. That's why you can't get the captain's chairs with armrests on the 8 pass model no matter what. The good news is you can fold the middle seat down and it makes a great table/partition if you only have 2 kids.

    So the total width of the 3 seats combined is much greater, and you have room for 3 kids/boosters without squeezing.

    A long time ago I actually took a tape measure, but I don't recall the total width. I do seem to recall the seats were 22", 20", and 22" wide, but I'm not sure you can just add those 3 up and say total width is 64" because there are gaps.

    My office chair is less than 20" wide, and I spend 8-9 hours a day in it, so that's why I consider even the middle seat a full-sized adult seat, comfortable even for long distances.

    The Ody's 8th seat works in a pinch, but I would not want to sit there for hours at a time, and it's not nearly 20" wide, not even half that wide.

    The 7 passenger Sienna has an optional console that goes there instead. Again, the anchors in the floor are different, they actually match the ones for the center console in the front row. It's pretty cool - you can get two matching consoles for storage front and back. But no 8th seat at all, so we passed.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I'm not going to say and Odyssey is any "better" than a Sienna but if you think the Odyssey felt "floaty" and the steering seemed vague, I have to wonder if you have it confused with a Sienna?

    If you want soft and floaty (as some people do) you may perfer a toyota product to a Honda. If you want a car that handles like a dream you would definatly perfer a Honda!

    And a Subaru Outback is in a totally diffferent class of cars.
  • islandvanislandvan Member Posts: 23
    i must say that i have driven both the ody and sienna multiple times and i (personally) like the sienna better.

    when i was shopping and reading the honda ody sites i found people ranking the sienna saying the brakes were horrible and too soft, the ride was too boaty and other things but when i drove the sienna i totally disagreed with these opinions.

    but this is just me. i have a smaller sporty car that i drive when i really, really want to "feel the road" but in my day to day driving and moving of my family i love the way the sienna drives and feels while driving along many different roads.

    and let's be honest....we are not buying a sports car - we are buying a family mover. there has to be a little expectation that a van will not corner like a porsche on rails. that is not to say we cannot have a little sporting fun while driving and being realistic about the vans abilities.

    in the sienna i find the acceleration is fantastic, the road / wind noise is just not there, it snakes through traffic in quite a nimble fashion and when i throw out the anchors to bring it down from 65 to 20 the brakes feel very solid and competent.

    again, these are my feelings...make sure you test drive many times in different conditions and if money is at all a factor, i think you will find toyota has the edge on comparably equipped vans.... i did to the tune of over $2,000.00 in my favor w/ much better financing.

    last week i shared some time with a recently ex-car sales manager and asked why honda would not come down more to get my business. he told me that part of their model is "to just wait...sooner or later someone will come along and pay the price the DEALER wants rather that make a less margin deal."
  • jsseinfeldjsseinfeld Member Posts: 7
    Great info everyone - I appreciate the opinions.

    So it seems like most people agree that if the Sienna is $5K less (including interest savings on financing), that is the way I should go, even if we end up liking the Odyssey a bit better. I think it's practical. From everything I read, it just seems like they are very comparable, and when we test drove the Sienna, it did seem nice. We'll see when we test drive the Odyssey tomorrow.

    8 seats vs 7 seats - I'll definitely look into the 8th seat option and look at the configurations. I really don't see us putting all 3 in the 2nd row though. Then again, I never really thought of it until someone mentioned it. I just figured my oldest (almost 4) would go in the back once our 3rd baby comes along, and then my soon to be 2 year old would go in the middle with the baby. Until then, I'll put both in the 2nd row. I don't think our oldest would mind being in the 3rd row though.

    Just have to look into AWD now (live just outside of Buffalo), but I might pass on that since it seems some people weren't crazy about it. We drive an Impala now and it drives fine in the snow - figure the FWD Sienna would be better.

    One other question - what are the odds Toyota extends the 1.9% financing or has another deal in December? Part of me wants to wait until end of year to see if there are any deals from Honda, but we are going on a 12 hour trip around Thanksgiving, so I might just pull the trigger within the next week. I think the financing deal is a good one and not sure how much better it will get. Thanks again...
  • dbtdbt Member Posts: 298
    I would not say that everyone says to take the $5k and run. If you have "regret" afterwards, and decide to trade later, you may lose more than $5k on a quick trade. So be cautious - this is your decision, and you have to live with it.

    Try the Sienna out for a longer time - rent one for a weekend. It's in the day-to-day that you find out whether you like it, not a quick test drive.

    Once your kid hits 5 or so, they can generally buckle themselves. They will enjoy the back row. I'm with thegraduate & bobber on this one - peace is easier kept with separation. Juice's kids are just much better behaved than mine ;) Course then again, I think he has his nanny in the middle (or is it the side?), most of the time, right? [i.e. when using 3 across in the middle row]

    On the 7 vs 8, one other consideration is: if you go out with another family / group, can you take them all in one vehicle? Sometimes, that 8th seat comes in real handy.

    On AWD, it depends. It is real helpful for me (I have a Pilot) in urban Minnesota - I'm always having to cross streets from a stop where extra traction is important. Many people though get along fine with a set of winter tires & rims. Most of the complaints on the AWD Sienna relate to the run-flats (with the exception of wwest's omnipresent complaints about the Sienna awd system). I had a Subaru before this, and really appreciate the AWD, but for others, FWD works fine.

    On incentives, the redesigned Sienna is coming very soon - it will be on display at the LA Auto Show around December 4. I would expect significant incentives on this generation as the release gets closer (some have said available in January, others say production starts January). However, Sienna's numbers for October were good - kept about the same as last year. Current wisdom on the availability of the redesign of the Odyssey is fall 2010. Ody has $1250 on 09s, but it did poorly this last month.
  • doggrandmadoggrandma Member Posts: 144
    Re: the AWD. The reason people don't like the AWD is the run flat tires that come with it. There are many complaints about run flat tires (read the customer reviews on Edmunds). They say they are noisy and wear out quickly. Also, I don't think you get a spare when the model has the run flat tires.
  • dbtdbt Member Posts: 298
    The reason you don't get the spare is the AWD system takes up the place of the spare on the FWD system. The redesign may change this, but it also may not have AWD anymore also. Have to wait to see.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    if the Sienna is $5K less ...

    They say timing is everything, and right now the incentives make the Sienna the better value. At other times the Ody has been discounted more heavily.

    You asked about financing - it probably will be extended because we're going to see the new Sienna debut at the LA Auto Show and it should come out in January or February. That's why dealers are starting to clear out the outgoing model.

    OTOH, if you're one of those folks that has to have the latest, newest model, in mere months you'll see the new Sienna on the road and may feel some remorse. Why don't you wait to see the 2011 concept before you decide? If you hate it, easy choice. If you love it, maybe wait and sample one. Sounds like you're not in a hurry.

    dbt: when my 2nd kid was a baby, he went in the middle, with the front-and-center seat all the way forward. Now both kids are in boosters in the outer seats, and the nanny rides between them when she's with us.

    8 seats are great. We've taken road trips with 2 entire families, several times actually. Saves tons of gasoline! :shades:
  • jsseinfeldjsseinfeld Member Posts: 7
    OTOH, if you're one of those folks that has to have the latest, newest model, in mere months you'll see the new Sienna on the road and may feel some remorse.

    I'm not that guy. I would actually consider an 09 model if it was the right price and had what I needed.

    I know no one knows whether there will be more/different incentives in December(can't wait too long either - my little car is about to die), but I'm just trying to get a feel if you think Toyota would extend their financing or offer something better, and if Honda may do so in December. I mean, is that common to do at end of year or is each year different and it's just too unpredictable? If I knew that Toyota would extend their financing to end of year and Honda would still offer nothing through end of year, I'd just get a Toyota now. But if there is a good chance Honda all of a sudden offers a nice rebate or low financing in December, maybe I then look at the Odyssey more. Sales tax deduction is set to end Dec 31st too, and living in NY that will save me on my taxes...so it really comes down to buying one in November or waiting it out til December. I'm leaning to just getting it now...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm the same way.

    In March I bought a 2008 Miata (no typo, 2008 purchased in 3/2009) for a fantastic price. If I'd waited another month the price dropped even more.

    Indeed it is very unpredictable. I made the wrong call - 18 days later the rebate went from $2500 to $5000. But that is very rare. The economy had tanked, and Mazda had 2009s to sell and even 2010s on their way to dealers. So this was 2 model years back.

    Plus, what if I had waited, but there were none left of the model I wanted? That did happen. I would have had to buy a more expensive GT model, though it would have ended up around the same price, with more content.

    I suggest this - keep a close eye on local inventory. If there is only a couple left, buy now before they sell out and you miss the opportunity. If dealers have plenty of them, wait. It's doubtful rebates will decrease when the 2011 redesign arrives, think about it. They'll only drop in price, or stay flat.

    So it's a risk of not getting the color/model you want, but prices are not likely to increase.

    Good luck. Take my advice at your own risk, remember I did not get it perfect, though I am still happy that I got the model/color I liked.
  • dbtdbt Member Posts: 298
    Juice's advice is very good. Inventory levels are a good thing to watch, but there's one other bit of information we simply cannot get to complete this, and that's production levels. If Toyota has cut production levels, but still have some inventory, they might reduce the incentive [this happened with the Ody this past summer - it was $3500 in June, and then cut back all the way (to $0) for early July, and then back up to $1250 for late July til now]. That happened though because Honda basically stopped making them, and inventories had been depleted.

    So, you take your risks. I think Juice has it right though - check to see how many of your particular option / color combination are around, and if a lot, wait a little. If not (and you've decided you are ok with taking Sienna and not Ody), go ahead.

    Enjoy it - you don't have to get the best possible deal to enjoy it. Just make sure you are happy with what you do.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Track both inventory and incentives.

    Problem is, if incentives drop, it's already too late. :(
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I have watched a lot of people outsmart themselves.

    They wait for incentives to get better and they suddenly go away without warning.

    The buyer still needs a car and ends up paying thousands of dollars more than they could have.

    Sometimes I'll warn a customer that I think the incentives will be ending. Sometimes they listen, other times they throw the dice and lose.

    I don't feel sorry for them when this happens. They simply outsmarted themselves.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    we're going to see the new Sienna debut at the LA Auto Show

    Is this going to be basically just a facelift and tweaking, or will it be more comprehensive in nature? What changes?
  • toyojunktoyojunk Member Posts: 19
    Buy the Odyssey that has the most comfortable seating and best leg room for 6 passengers + the driver unless you want the most cargo space behind the 3rd row when all seats are occupied.

    The Sienna is the best choice for people who need the most cargo space in a minivan but is a poor choice if the driver and front passenger want separately controlled temperature that is standard on all Odyssey EX models but not available on the Sienna CE or LE.

    We still own and drive our 2006 Sienna LE that has not been as satisfactory for our needs as was our 2002 Chrysler T&C LX. The Sienna now has 31,720 actual miles on the odometer and is a fine minivan for people who have never owned an Odyssey (or a Chrysler).
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    The Sienna is the best minivan out there, irrespective of what some folks tell. The Odyssey is also a very good choice,though. Basically depends on what you like in a van. :P
    1.If you want a smooth,comfortable,quiet,plush ride with a more powerful engine and a luxurious cabin in the XLE trim-The Sienna is your van.
    2.If you want a very taut,good agility,but lots of road and tire noise and a harsh ride especially on rough roads-Odyssey is your van . If you want a driver`s car then Odyssey is better. But it is very uncomfortable for rear passengers with the noise especially on long trips.And can get tiring.
    3. Also the cabin of the highest XLE trim in Sienna is outright luxurious-like the Lexus of minivans. Odyssey`s cabin is not as good.

    Buy a Certified preowned or a used van - you can save quite a bit of money. One advice I give is unanimous-Just dont buy any Chrysler/Dodge/Nissan vans .All are crap especially the Nissan Quest which is absolutely the worst van out there.-:shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It's a full redesign.

    A 6 speed automatic is expected, but not certain. Info is very scarce right now.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In the "2008 Minivans" thread, 2 years ago or so, he said it himself:

    I agree that the Odyssey is the MOST expensive and the Sienna has the MOST power at the lowest price

    That's a direct quote, straight from the horse's mouth. You can't spin that, no way no how. He even put it in CAPS, feeling the need to shout it.

    Sure an LE lacks dual climate control, but an XLE doesn't. The Ody EX costs a bunch more than a Sienna LE, or as you put it, it's "the MOST expensive". It's fair to expect "the lowest price[d]" Sienna to be missing a few items, no?

    If you think that's changed, just ask the guy who did the math and came out $5 grand ahead with the Toyota recently.

    Besides, of course there are trade-offs. I thoroughly enjoy my trip computer, on my Sienna LE Pkg 3, and the Ody EX lacked that and a tow prep package back in 07, even though it cost more (March 2007). Fair trade, if you ask me. It's impossible to match content exactly, because each model is packaged uniquely. Not only that, but also this changes year by year.

    Have you been following this thread at all? You walked right in to that one. :D
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    The Sienna is the best minivan out there, irrespective of what some folks tell.

    Oh, well del says its the best, so we can go ahead and shut this thread down. Case closed!

    :P
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    Grad, That was funny ! :shades: The Sienna is the top rated minivan - CR rates it the highest. And even other reviews state that it`s got the most powerful engine and the other factors stated above. And no,this thread is about the comparison . Not which one is the best. The Prius is the best hybrid out there,still we have discussion boards between it and the Insight.

    Doesn`t mean if one is the best,it is the end of discussion.If that was so, then there would be no discussion. It is a versus discussion. :P
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Well, its the best van for you, just as the Odyssey may be the best van for someone who hates giving up the driving feel of a sedan.

    It's all subjective - I'd dare say there is no "best." Just a "best for the individual buyer" in each case. The Sienna is better at some things, the Odyssey is better at others. How highly you count things like ride, power, steering feel, design, seat-comfort is all up to the person. There are way too many individualities about each van to sum-up one as "best," CR or not.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well said.

    I think that should be required reading for every member on Edmunds.
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    thegraduate speaks way too rationally for my taste. I like to hear from folks who are absolutely, positively right on the correct choice for everyone all of the time. ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Rational, politically correct, objective... bet you'd never guess that my degree was broadcast journalism with a public relations background. :)

    Well, you might while others wouldn't. I'd hate to sound biased about you...

    :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There was one guy who claimed he was shopping for a vehicle to give to his ex-wife after a divorce settlement (the court required him to give her a new car, supposedly).

    Someone recommended the Pontiac Aztek and that's what he said he got for her. :D
  • jsseinfeldjsseinfeld Member Posts: 7
    So with the help of everyone on here and lots of research, I made my decision and put my deposit down today! First off let me say thanks to everyone for their insights and their tips. It was sooooo helpful, I really appreciate taking the time to help me out. In case any one is wondering, here is how it happened:

    So...1st stop Saturday went to the Honda dealer - met a friend of a friend who is a sales person there. The man was a class act gentleman, objective, and knew his Odyssey, not to mention his competition - the Sienna. Peoples' reviews on here were spot on - the Honda looked so much better (IMO), had maybe an extra bell or whistle (Sienna LE EVP#2 vs Odyssey EX), such as dual climate control, floor mats included, a thing or two I'm maybe missing. Having said that, after sitting in the back seat while my wife drove, and then driving it myself, I was not saying to myself this van is better than the Sienna, let alone worth an extra $1500-$2000 (forget about the Toyota financing incentive). Sat down with the guy in his office - was going to give me the EX for $27500 - even a couple hundred less (which he said was less than invoice), but told us if we were planning on financing our new vehicle, we should just get a Sienna (what an honest salesperson - A+ in my book). I thought that was a pretty good price though.

    Next stop - Toyota dealer. We already test drove the Sienna. Despite the fact that I think the look of the Honda is superior, the Sienna just drives nicer. Interior is similar. I also like the overhead controls (temp, compass) on the LE EVP#2. Sat down with the dealer, tried to get us to sign there but we said we needed to crunch the numbers at home. On the way home, we agreed that we had to go with a Toyota, not much choice with incentive vs. no incentive - it would come to $4,500-$5,000 (including interest) for very similar vehicles. I think the only way we were going with Honda was if Honda had an incentive and Toyota didn't. I like the Honda, and I think both have pros/cons and people could make arguments for both, but I think they are worth similar amounts IMO - at least the models I compared.

    Long story short, got 9 different quotes online for the Sienna within 100 miles of me, found a dealer 15 miles away. Went in today, went back and forth on my trade in value and struck a deal.

    Also, for you people wondering, multiple dealers told me the 1.9% ends on Nov 16th. Then a new incentive kicks in. But the Toyota website says it goes til Nov. 30th - contradictory. A couple dealers said they have no clue what's going to happen after the 16h and they are assuming the 1.9 could go away, which made me worried. The guy I bought from (seemed more honest, less pushy) said he talked to his Toyota rep after talking to me, and that the 1.9 % is going to go until the 30th. The only thing that could happen is on the 17th, it might get better depending on what Toyota decides. He said they might give $X or 1.9%, or maybe they even drop it to 0.9%. But he was confident that it wasn't going to disappear. I worked out a deal with him if that happens (another reason I bought from him)..but that's just from my source, so take it as you will.

    Anyway, thanks again everyone for the opinions - it's great to hear from both sides and become more educated consumers. Best regards....

    BTW ateixeira - despite your strong recommendations, we just went with the 7 passenger (FWD too). But because you and another poster, I will say we gave it a strong look. Thanks again! :)
  • bobber1bobber1 Member Posts: 217
    If you got that Sienna bought for $23,000, good for you. Can't beat a deal like that. Toyota must be pretty hungry.
  • oddyshopperoddyshopper Member Posts: 8
    "he Sienna is the top rated minivan - CR rates it the highest"

    Does anyone else find it odd that CR rated a minivan with a poor rear impact rating highest?

    I questioned CR directly on this and was told they evaluate "overall safety".

    In other words if three sides is good enough for you and your family.... It's the best!

    I see everyone fretting about three in the second row. Oddy is not the best for three the plus one is small. However. If you have two it's great. I've not seen it mentioned but on the EX/EX-L you can remove the "pluse one" and shove one large seat towards the center. This is ideal for two kids... Two big seats within easy armreach of the driver yet maintaining some seperation between car seats. Plus easier access to the rear. Very nice.

    Good luck with whatever you do.
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    4-5 grand difference would seal the deal for me. Maybe toyota is really trying to clear out the 2010's for the all new 2011 next year. Doesn't make sense that there should be that much difference in price between those two vans.
  • jsseinfeldjsseinfeld Member Posts: 7
    Just to clarify, the price difference between the Odyssey and Sienna I compared was not $4-$5K. It was actually $1700-$1800 (Odyssey EX vs Sienna LE EVP#2 with mats/door sil protector).

    That $4K - $5K difference factored in the interest savings. The Honday Odyssey doesn't have any incentives right now on purchases, Toyota does (1.9% financing). That interest savings (obviously depending on how much you would have put down, your interest rate, etc) can save you $2500+.

    Going back to what I was saying, I think both vehicles are nice, with both having pros/cons. For me though, it was a pretty easy choice to pick the Sienna given the price difference - including interest savings.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Congrats on the purchase. Being an educated shopper can make finally striking a deal an exciting and satisfying thing, but if Toyota comes back and has $xxx more dollars for incentives, etc, don't sweat it. You got the van you wanted at a price you were comfortable with.

    :)
  • islandvanislandvan Member Posts: 23
    this is not a dig at the odyssey but a post i read on odyclubforums.com re the tranny probs they have had over the last few years (not sure if still a problem) and how honda handled it:

    http://www.odyclub.com/forums/showthread.php?s=08206c19df70c361ba568fa811c957b4&- threadid=50624&perpage=15&highlight=&pagenumber=3

    the one post that said it all to me:

    Mojo72
    Junior Member

    Registered: Mar 2009
    Location: Florida
    Posts: 6


    One last follow-up post to all,

    In June the Better Business Bureau ruled that Honda had to buy back my vehicle. At the turnover meeting Honda's representative tried to backcharge me for $1,400 worth of "above normal wear and tear" damage to the vehicle due to bug splatters on the front bumper. I assumed that this was Honda's one last stab at me for making them take back the vehicle. I refused the estimate and took it back to the BBB for a clarification ruling. Finally after another favorable ruling from the arbitrator, Honda was forced to buyback my vehicle in late August with no deductions for excessive wear and tear.

    Lessons learned from this whole experience:

    1. Honda Odysseys' have a problem that Honda cannot and obviously will not fix.

    2. Unless you stand up for your rights and use the lemon law systems, Honda will not do anything for you, no matter how many Honda's you've bought in the past and or how good of a customer you may be.

    3. Honda has a dark and maybe even evil side when it comes to them loosing a battle and having to "do the right thing".

    My advice to all of you:

    If you're still eligible for a lemon law claim in your state, learn the facts about what you need to do and start doing them now. Honda has definitely proven to me that they are not willing to correct the problems with this vehicle and that they will not do anything positive for you and this problem until you make them!

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  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I also like the overhead controls (temp, compass) on the LE EVP#2

    That's the trip computer I was mentioning, I love it too, especially the fuel economy read outs. 2 of our 3 vehicles have that and I miss it when I'm driving the 3rd one.

    You may not have noticed but you also have power 3rd row window vents (switch by your left knee), another bonus on the Sienna.

    I'm not sure about what's standard right now, but back in 2007 when I bought mine, the Sienna also had a tow prep package standard (I think Toyota removed that for 2008), puddle lamps, and cross bars for the roof rack.

    Feeling better? Another bonus - your front seat folds flat. The 3rd row can be positioned for tailgate seating, with the kids facing out. The 2nd row tumbles forward, too.

    So you do get some nice extras.

    The Ody EX gets you the dual-zone climate control and I think it has a power passenger's seat.

    Congratulations! :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    In other words if three sides is good enough for you and your family.... It's the best!

    Active headrests were just added, so those ratings are outdated. Not to mention that's not "your family", but rather you, the driver.

    And...I will politely remind you that in the IIHS side-impact tests, the Sienna does far better at protecting the 2nd row dummy, which is "your family". From IIHS:

    Rear passenger — Measures taken from the dummy indicate that rib fractures and/or internal organ injuries would be possible in a crash of this severity

    Ody is better at protecting the driver, Sienna is better at protecting the driver's family.
  • dgrodgro Member Posts: 6
    The Ody EX has theft deterrent system. I don't think the LE EVP#2 has that - probably an option though for more $$.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sienna LE had that standard in 2007, even without options packages, but again this is 2010 and that may have changed.

    It's like they're playing games with us, no? Shuffling options each model year, adding this and removing that.

    They want to keep us guessing. :sick:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That got me curious so I checked out the crash details. Both of these only earn an Average score for structural integrity in the side impact tests by IIHS. Ody also drops to Average for torso protection for the child dummy in the back.

    The overall score is Good, but I think we can all agree there is room for improvement for both - plenty.

    Compare images:

    image

    image

    We should not get complacent, and instead demand that automakers continuously improve these designs.
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    Expect all the crash issues to be addressed in the 2011 sienna. I don't know if honda is doing a re-do on the ody for 2011 but would expect improvements there as well.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hopefully, but let's not assume that. In a few cases the scores can actually go down. Not likely, but it can happen.

    Edit: I looked at the Entourage and Grand Caravan and neither of those have a Good rating for structural integrity in side impacts either. Let's see who can earn it first! :shades:
  • dbtdbt Member Posts: 298
    Those images definitely show the weak point in a big box on wheels. It's real tough to get sufficient structural integrity to withstand the basher when you have a huge front door right next to an even huger sliding door. The SUV competitors (with conventional doors) are actually better for this, but face the problem of higher rollover.

    There should be some solutions to it, but it will be costly. Tough to work around the geometry. To my eye, it looks like increasing the floor panel integrity at the B pillar would be something they should be looking into.
  • bobber1bobber1 Member Posts: 217
    $1,800 difference would have not swayed me if the Honda had some more features(which I think you said it did) and if I liked it more. The interest deals a non factor since I usually go the cash route. Funny Honda doesn't have some interest rate deal. They usually do.

    As I've said many times, they're both good vans. I've had my Honda for 3 years now and no regrets.
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    It is somewhat surprising that honda doesn't offer some form of incentive to match up better in price. If the vans are selling well than I guess there is no reason to deal. Market share issues could trigger some stuff in december I suppose. $1800 would be a factor for me if I was shopping now.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Honda's probably a year away from a new Odyssey design. Toyota's current model will be the "old model" by early next year, making its current model value drop a little more than the Ody's would for this year, I'd think. Just like buying any car right before the new version comes out.

    Just speculation here. Feel free to disagree. :)
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    That makes sense -- getting rid of the old stuff by pricing it a bit better. Wonder if they will pump out a lot of 2010's just before the unveiling and put additional incentives to make up for the lag in inventory that new models usually produce? I don't even know why I asked that question --- could care less since the 2012 model is the soonest I'll be in the market. :confuse: Need to focus on lunch or improving my golf game. Makes more sense.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It varies, almost by season. Less than a year after I bought the Sienna people were reporting Ody prices had plunged, more than a grand lower than when I had shopped.

    Timing matters - some times Toyota offers the better deal, other times it's Honda.
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    This is off topic, but i saw a pic of the possible all new nissan quest and it looked great. May offer another competitor in the minivan market. The current one is poorly rated.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I've actually been seeing a fair number of Sienna's at the Hertz lots.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I wanted to rent one when I went to Florida in January.

    Not worth it.

    Most vans rent for $3xx something, the Sienna was over $600 for the week! :sick:

    We got my brother a Grand Caravan for half the price. I don't think any van is worth double as much, that's just nuts.
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