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Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

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Comments

  • hogan773hogan773 Member Posts: 255
    got it. In my case, we were looking to get a minivan in the near term, and I only wanted to wait if the new design was awesome (in my opinion it wasn't). Plus I got 2400 below invoice right now, and I think there is a better chance that on the new model, I probably wouldn't get any better than 1000-1500 ABOVE invoice at least for awhile, plus they might raise the base prices, so there was an economic incentive too.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Well, I guess.

    I don't like to spend a lot of time thinkg about somthing that could happen.

    Besides, if I get rear ended, it'll the other guy's fault and hopefully they will be insured.

    I keep full coverage insurance on our beater1993 Explorer that rarely get's driven. I was going to take off the collision and comp but since it's so old and of so little value, I think state Farm charges us something like 100.00 a year for those coverages. They know it would take very little to total it.

    1500.00 a year sounds NUTS for a 1996! Are you sure?
  • gene00gene00 Member Posts: 115
    Makes sense. I'm sure the functionality will be about the same, so you'll be getting a relative bargain since I'm sure you're right about incentives not showing up for the new model, probably for a year.
  • dbtdbt Member Posts: 298
    Finally, someone told me the Ody's 8th seat is supposed to be full-sized? If so, this reversal alone might have me more interested in the Ody next time around (won't be for a while, I'm driving the wheels off my 07 Sienna).
    Just to be clear, Honda claims that the 2011 Ody's 2nd row can fit 3 child seats side-by-side-by-side. Not necessarily full sized (have to wait for more pictures), but you cannot do that with the current Ody 8th seat (and the 2011 Sienna 8th).
  • dbtdbt Member Posts: 298
    It's not so much that they relocated the spare, as much as the fact that it's a donut now. That plus if you actually get a flat, where can you fit the full-size flat? It won't fit in the same spot.
    Sadly that has become industry standard. It saves weight and cost, so everyone does it now, with only a few exceptions.


    Here's one advantage of the Pilot: while it comes with a donut, the space it goes in fits a full-size spare perfectly. That's what's on the back of mine now :)
  • hogan773hogan773 Member Posts: 255
    My 2004 Pilot came with a fullsize spare, strung up under the chassis in the back. So they've now moved to a donut huh
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    More pics? Have there been any of the interior? If so I haven't seen them, so please share.

    For me the interior photos are far more important than the exterior ones (particularly on a minivan).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Probably to save weight and costs.

    If it fits, you can always buy a cheap steelie and spare full-size tires from Tire Rack.

    I did that for a 2002 Legacy, and replaced the donut.

    Murphy's Law: never once got a flat in 7 years, even though it was my wife's car and she got TWO flat tires with her previous car. :sick:
  • dbtdbt Member Posts: 298
    The only interior pics are "conceptual" / Virtual image pics, at this time.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, I've seen some of those drawings, I was hoping the concept had been photographed inside (or was it just an exterior mock up?).
  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,582
    Naw, you're not the only one. I think the new Ody looks really nice. I agree with Juice, though, interior is king with a minivan, so until those pictures surface, we don't really know much. Still, if they really can hit those mileage figures they're claiming, the new Ody has segment leader written all over it. Must drive Toyota nuts...

    23 Civic Type-R / 22 MDX Type-S / 21 Tesla Y LR / 03 Montero Ltd

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    MPG is a biggie for me, too. One of the reasons (I suspect) people get a van is that they want better-than-SUV gas mileage.

    The last Ody's VCM disappointed me a little. Mileage was no better than the Sienna yet it gave up huge HP.

    +2mpg might have swayed me, even with a slight power deficit.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    If the MPGs aren't there for Honda, then there will be no stopping Toyota...

    :sick: :shades:

    Sorry, I couldn't help it.
  • doggrandmadoggrandma Member Posts: 144
    Ha, ha, perhaps you should look at the all new Camry-kazi! ;)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Slow down else this thread will accelerate out of control. :D
  • hitchens97hitchens97 Member Posts: 62
    So my wife test drove both.

    Unfortunately the 2011 Sienna made her nauseous whereas the Ody didn't, and she preferred the ride and fit/finish in the Ody.

    So now our big question is: Do we go for a 2010 Ody or wait 6 months for the new one? Really not sure....
  • hogan773hogan773 Member Posts: 255
    In addition to the fact that I didn't see the new design as so incredible to be worth waiting 6 months for, PRICE is also a pertinent factor you should consider.

    1) when new Sienna came out, pricing went up approx $2k
    2) right now there are good deals on Odyssey if you negotiate...I just got mine for approx $2400 below invoice (not sticker). In general, we should expect that for the shiny "new" Odyssey this fall, dealers will be trying to get sticker, or at least something above invoice.

    Therefore IMO there could easily be $3-5K extra cost in buying the new version vs the 2010. For me, I didn't see the design or feature "breakthroughs" that would warrant that difference.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I've heard the "nauseous" comment about Toyotas before.

    They have such a floaty ride, like an old Buick.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Timing is everything.

    Remember a few months ago, people were reporting huge price advantages for the Sienna?

    Now it's the other way around. The older Honda design is the bargain.

    Nausea on a test drive? Which model? Was she sitting up front?
  • hitchens97hitchens97 Member Posts: 62
    She was driving. She's very susceptible to motion sickness, and our current car is a Passat Wagon W8 which has a pretty taught European suspension. She found the Honda ride a bit stiffer, and she didn't get motion sick in that.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Reason I asked was that when we spent a week in Tucson with friends I had to ride in the back of their Ody, over the rear wheels, and I felt that way.

    Generally it helps to look outside and view the horizon, to get your bearings.
  • tylerwkutylerwku Member Posts: 13
    I wanted to let everyone that I tested both yesterday (Sienna LE and Odyssey EX) and the new Sienna is an easy winner. The Sienna drove so much better than the Odyssey. There was much less road noise, it was a much smoother ride, less engine noise, and better acceleration and more responsive breaks. They both have equal marks with their suspension and turning radius now, which the Odyssey use to be the clear winner in that area. I also liked the looks of the the Sienna much more than the outdated Odyssey. The interior of the Sienna was much more comfortable and attractive as well. (except for the plastic looking dash of the Sienna!) I did like the second row configuration of the Odyssey better as you can move the captain chairs together to the center of the van and the center seat could be used as a arm rest with cup holders. The 8th seat in the Sienna is pretty much useless if you ask me. The Sienna also has more cargo space, but slightly less third row seating space. For now the Sienna is the King or Queen of the mini van market, but Honda could take it back over this fall with the introduction of the 2011 Odyssey. Stay tuned!!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You buyin'? :shades:
  • tylerwkutylerwku Member Posts: 13
    I am trying to decide wether to go ahead and buy now while their sales are down or wait for better cash back/financing later in the year. What do you think?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If you qualify for the 0% financing I'd say go for it. That is a big incentive, even if the model weren't brand new.
  • hogan773hogan773 Member Posts: 255
    Just don't expect to walk thru from the front to the back, and watch that you don't trip on the goofy plastic cupholders that are permanently attached to the floor between the 2nd row seats.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Do the 2nd row seats still fold+tumble forward?

    The Ody's don't, IIRC. Maybe they took that away since there is the gap between the seats.
  • hogan773hogan773 Member Posts: 255
    In new Sienna, no. They slide on tracks so they have more fore/aft travel than Honda. In the foremost position they sort of fold upwards a little to snug closer to the driver/pax seats. For me, this is a useless feature as I will have 2 carseats in those seats, so folding them isnt possible.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I guess they rely on the pass-through.
  • ajseagles3ajseagles3 Member Posts: 6
    I really did like the 2011 Sienna over the 2010 Odyssey in driving. But they are still penetrating lots, and the configuration I want (XLE with RSE but NOT entire Premium Package) is rare. Could get a 2010 Ody for about $2400 under INVOICE right now but really feel that the 2011 Ody will make me regret a purchase.

    Oh well, I guess I shouldn't accelerate into a decision.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Wait it out if you can.

    Who knows? You may love the '11 Ody. Early mileage reports are promising.

    You may not like it, though. Some 2011 Sienna shoppers are getting 2010s for one reason or another, mostly the death of the big 8th seat, some because pricing is higher.

    The 2011 Honda may arrive with higher prices, too, and we haven't even seen the real interior. Plus who knows how they will package it.
  • autowriteautowrite Member Posts: 226
    Even though I was planning to keep my 2002 Odyssey for 600,000 miles, if possible I was admiring the Siennna because it had no transmission problems. NOW, the Sieena has caused deaths with the accelerator (probably drive my wire) problems. It's back to the Odyssey. A fellow on ODYCLUB.com has just bought a 2006 Odyssey even though his 2002 had transmission problems because he liked many other things about it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I haven't seen any deaths from sudden acceleration in Siennas. Source?
  • ajseagles3ajseagles3 Member Posts: 6
    I figure there will definitely be a window in which I'll know more about the 2011 but still be able to get a 2010 on the cheap. In fact dealer incentives will probably only increase as it gets closer and closer to the release date on the new ones. So, I think your advice to wait is very sound.

    The good news is that while my 2004 Mitsu Endeavor has 90,000+ miles on it, I have never had any serious problems at all and actually like driving it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yep, just be flexible on the color, perhaps. Selection may be an issue if you wait too long.
  • autowriteautowrite Member Posts: 226
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not much to that story, at least not yet.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited March 2010
    FWIW, search the NHTSA ODI and you'll find the same complaints for the Ody.

    Here's one, ODI ID Number 10303067:

    TL*THE CONTACT OWNS A 2007 HONDA ODYSSEY. WHILE STOPPED AT A RED LIGHT SHE ATTEMPTED TO MOVE OUT OF THE WAY TO ALLOW A POLICE VEHICLE TO PASS, THE ENGINE BEGAN TO IDLE ROUGHLY AND THE VEHICLE PROCEEDED TO ACCELERATE. SHE THEN ATTEMPTED TO DEPRESS THE BRAKE PEDAL VERY HARD BEFORE STOPPING THE VEHICLE. ON A SEPARATE OCCASION, WHILE EXITING THE HIGHWAY, SHE BEGAN DEPRESSING THE BRAKE TO MERGE OUT OF TRAFFIC AT SPEEDS OF LESS THAN 15 MPH, THE VEHICLE BEGAN TO ACCELERATE AT FULL SPEED. THE CONTACT CONTINUED TO APPLY EXTREME PRESSURE TO THE BRAKES AND THE VEHICLE PROCEEDED OVER THE MEDIAN ONTO THE GRASS. SHE WAS ABLE TO STOP THE VEHICLE AND AVOID A COLLISION. THE DEALER REPROGRAMMED THE TRANSMISSION SENSOR AND ADVISED THE FAILURE SHOULD NOT OCCUR AGAIN. THERE WERE NO FURTHER INCIDENTS THEREAFTER. THE VIN WAS NOT AVAILABLE. THE FAILURE AND CURRENT MILEAGES WERE UNDER 30,000.

    Sorry for the CAPS, that's copied from their site.

    That's 2 seperate occasions on the same van. This was for a 2007 model year (my Sienna is also an 07).

    From ODI ID Number : 10237557:

    ON 12/26/07, I HAD A VERY BAD ACCIDENT HITTING 2 CARS AND ALL OF THE AIR BAGS IN OUR NEW 07 HONDA ODYSSEY DEPLOYED. MY WIFE WAS IN THE CAR, I WAS DRIVING AND WE WERE EXITING THE HIGHWAY WITH THE CRUISE CONTROL ON AND TURNED ONTO THE OFF RAMP WHEN THE BRAKES COMPLETELY FAILED; I STEPPED ON THE BRAKES REPEATEDLY AND THEY WERE SO SOFT THEY WENT COMPLETELY TO THE FLOOR BOARD AND THE CAR WOULD NOT STOP AND THE CRUISE CONTROL WOULD NOT TURN OFF. THE RAMP WAS ABOUT 100 YARDS LONG, SO WE WOULD HAVE HAD PLENTY OF TIME TO STOP IF THE BRAKES WORKED. THE RAMP WAS UPHILL AND BECAUSE THE CRUISE CONTROL DID NOT GO OFF, THE CAR STARTED TO ACCELERATE AND WE WERE GOING FASTER AND FASTER UP THE OFF RAMP. ...

    I stopped searching, it was too depressing. I bet there are more.

    So, does this mean Odyssey throttles are also all bad?

    Or, more likely, are not-so-common complaints like this likely operator error?

    Whatever you believe, keep in mind the 2011 Sienna now has the brake-throttle override, so it won't happen to new Sienna.

    Does the Ody have that as well? If not we may continue to see more of these from Honda, but not from 2011+ Siennas.

    By the way, I realize Honda sells more Odys, but overall NHTSA has 206 complaints for 2007 Odys and only 62 for 2007 Siennas. In the Ody the recurring theme seemed to be failing brakes, yikes.

    Go here and click Search Complaints:

    http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/recalls/recallsearch.cfm
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited March 2010
    Early on I said it: let's wait for the investigation before jumping to conclusions.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,589090,00.html

    http://jalopnik.com/5491101/did-bankrupt-runaway-prius-driver-fake-unintended-ac- celeration

    Shame on anyone who believed this story, including a few people here.

    Read the 2nd article, especially the updates:

    * his Prius does have brakes that override the throttle
    * the guy is 3/4rs of a million dollars in debt
    * he still owes $19,000 to Toyota
    * Sikes has a history of items in his possession being stolen and him filing for insurance claims
    * Sikes owned and operated a web site called AdultSwingLife.com.
    * There's also a report from KTLX with a neighbor stating he may have been involved in the porn industry.

    This is HILARIOUS!

    If you believed this guy, shame on you! LOL
  • hogan773hogan773 Member Posts: 255
    "The 2011 Honda may arrive with higher prices, too, and we haven't even seen the real interior. Plus who knows how they will package it."

    Umm, I think "may" may be too soft a word. Chances that they reduce the price of the van on an apples to apples basis? Doubtful.

    Also don't forget that you can get 2500 BELOW INVOICE right now. Chances are pretty high that dealers will be trying to sell their awesome new 2011s at closer to sticker, but certainly OVER invoice. I'd say its pretty much assured you'll be paying MORE for a 2011 than a 2010 due to those 2 factors. Whether that premium is warranted depends on the features of the 2011 and is a personal decision for each buyer.
  • autowriteautowrite Member Posts: 226
    I think the 2011 Odyssey will be the better choice. It will proabably have a choice of either a 4-cylinder or 6-cylinder and a six speed stardard.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    If they didn't put the 2.4L in the Crosstour (which is notably lighter than the Odyssey), I wouldn't look for it in the next Van. Frankly, 160 lb-ft isn't enough for a 4,500lb van.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    We can't know for sure.

    When Subaru launched the 2009 Forester, prices dropped $800-1200 or so.

    Sales went way up. They basically built-in discounts and incentives that they had in prior years.

    It boosted sales, and even boosted residuals, win-win.

    The minivan segment is having a hard time so who knows what Honda will do.
  • hogan773hogan773 Member Posts: 255
    Well, Toyota just boosted prices by about $2000 on the new Siennas......and that is a minivan too, and its not as if Toyota has no marketing hurdles right now......don't be fooled by the press release that says the new Sienna comes at a "cheaper price" than the 2010s - yes, if you compare a new 4 cylinder with a 6 cyl on the 2010s......to me that's not an apples to apples comparison :surprise:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    True, a sneaky way to lower the base price in those ads and such. At the same time, though, they did add content. My LE has a backup camera standard now, for instance. That and the 6 speed automatic. But it's a couple grand more than I paid.

    They added 0% as of March 1, not sure if that includes the Sienna or not.

    They definitely built-in some price padding for discounts later, though.

    Honda stands to gain market share if they can keep a lid on pricing.
  • dbtdbt Member Posts: 298
    2007-08 Odys and Elements are now under recall to address "softness" in the brake pedal feel. For more, see:
    http://www.ahm-ownerlink.com/maintenance/OdyElement_recall.asp
  • hogan773hogan773 Member Posts: 255
    Yes they simplified all the options packages and made more stuff "standard" but at a higher price. Not saying they are being jerks or underhanded or anything, but its just a fact that the price DID go up!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    After looking at the NHTSA complaints page (while searching for cases of UA), I'm not surprised at all. Most of the complaints were brake-related.

    It's good, though, it means those problems are being addressed. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    True, but what you could do is step down one model.

    In other words, if you wanted an XLE before, you may get along just find with an LE now. Actually the LE gets a backup cam that required Navi on the old XLE, so you could even end up with a better package.

    3 zone climate control goes even on the base model now, before I think the XLE had dual? Anyone know?

    Depends on what you want, I suppose.
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