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Honda Odyssey vs. Toyota Sienna

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Comments

  • heywood1heywood1 Member Posts: 851
    Another back-handed slam. And you didn't 'just ask a question.' In doing so, you implied that buyers who want these things are somehow irrational. I hope your keep a lid on your contempt for people who like these features whenever you're trying to sell a car. Not my fault Honda neglected to offer some of these things on the product you sell.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I was responding to my own experience is that most people don't bother to downshift for engine braking. I do turn off my overdrive going uphill.

    On another topic, I don't know why folks are jumping down each others throats - it's just a minivan. Is the fading daylight getting on people's nerves? Whatever it is, please cut it out.

    Steve, Host
  • heywood1heywood1 Member Posts: 851
    I was only speaking about going uphill. Someone else mentioned downshifting for braking. I don't put undo wear-and-tear on my transmission when brake pads are so much cheaper to replace.
  • doug889doug889 Member Posts: 60
    The Nov 1 issue of Fortune says BMW may be building something like a minivan, which may not be called a minivan. It's a long article.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Here's the teaser:

    The Ultimate Fairly Inexpensive Driving Machine

    Steve, Host
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    BMW has NOT always been an upscale brand. Anyone remember the weird BMW Izetta?
         Come to think of it, weren't the original Honda and Toyota vehicles also little, cheap "entry-level" items?
         The Odyssey has been the most successful minivan after Chrysler
    had great success in the early 1980's when they modernized the idea that Volkswagen introduced.
  • samnoesamnoe Member Posts: 731
    Thanks for agreeing to me. I forgot to mention some more stuff.

    Kia - yes, the little Kia Sedona - introduced the dash-mounted shifter. Then Toyota copied that (added the gated), and then Nissan & Honda.

    Kia Sedona was also the first to offer a 5-speed tranny in a minivan - except if you count the 1997 Aerostar. Then it was adopted at Mazda MPV, and only then copied by Honda, Toyota and Nissan.

    Puddle lamps - lamps below the exterior mirrors is a nice feature found on the Ford Freestar and Nissan Quest. And both, Freestar and Quest, offer cornering lamps on many models of their minivans. Both useful features not found on Sienna or Ody.

    Oh, and BTW, if Honda didn't want to copy Chrysler's stow-n-go 2nd row seats (b/c it's uncomfortable), why didn't they at least copy the Nissan Quest, to make the seats 'almost' flat?

    -------------------------

    BMW minivan:

    Do you know that BMW has a very bad reliability reputation according to Consumer Reports? Not to start a new argument if CR itself is reliable or not; but everybody knows that BMW has a lot of recalls and sits very much time at the Mechanic.

    I know, it's b/c all those gazillion gadgets and 'cool' features (att: Andrewtran71), and so are most Audi & Mercedes models. subpar reliability.

    So a good suggestion: Why think about a BMW minivan for $50,000 without reliability, when you can get for $40,000 most of the BMW features with exceptional reliability?

    Just my $.02
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    The 2002 Odyssey had a 5 speed automatic. Didn't the Kia Sedona first appear as a 2002 model?
        However, the Kia Sedona has won acclaim by OPEC for being the most gas guzzling minivan even with the 5 speed automatic.
        The Odyssey has always been at the top or near the top in fuel economy.
  • ewtewt Member Posts: 127
    "Oh, and BTW, if Honda didn't want to copy Chrysler's stow-n-go 2nd row seats (b/c it's uncomfortable), why didn't they at least copy the Nissan Quest, to make the seats 'almost' flat?"

    I'd rather have the ability to move the seats side by side as in the Odyssey and Sienna than fold them flat into the floor (or nearly flat). I've never had a need for more space than folding the third row down allows (and if I did, I can still remove the second row seats), but I frequently have a need to make the third row easy to access, which it isn't when people have to duck, get into the van, and squeeze in between the second row seats. I view folding second row seats as a negative rather than a positive.
  • indy93indy93 Member Posts: 97
    What you said about BMW is quite true...the X5 has had one of the worst reliability records on record. BMW free maintance is only there to induce people to buy cars which are not particularly reliable and are prohibitively expensive to maintain. Mercedes ML is equally as bad... for these vehicles 10yr./100,000 warranties may be in order. Stick to Ody or Sienna if you want to sleep at night!
  • djohnso1djohnso1 Member Posts: 4
    I was told by a salesman that the XLE Limited AWD with Nav actually has a 6 CD changer instead of the single CD that comes with the XLE Limited with Nav (without AWD). Of course, they didn't have one in stock. Could someone who owns (or has seen) the XLE Limited AWD with Nav answer this for me?
    Thank you.
  • samnoesamnoe Member Posts: 731
    You're 100% right. I too would rather have the side-by-slide seat than fold-into-floor. It's much more useful for my needs.

    I just wanted to point out that Honda Ody doesn't have EVERYTHING, and therefor all other vans out there are trash.

    I personally wish to be able to slide together the seats to perform a bench, it gives you easier access to the rear seat, and gives you room for another suitcase when needed.
  • chiawchiaw Member Posts: 92
    the salesman is an idiot.

    All navi cars for 2005 comes with single cd disc. No cd changer.
  • chiawchiaw Member Posts: 92
    Couple things.

    For 2005 Sienna has upgrade the navi to 4th generation. Hence is now has matched odyssey on ease of search. However, due to legal issues that toyota perceives, it still does not allow input to the navi while in motion. In addition, sienna already has voice command build in with the nav and on limited its already prewired for voice (need to add a button plus mic- all plug n' play). The difference between sienna and odyssey on the navi front is shrinking.

    However, the current odyssey is not perfect either. Lack of HID with manual height adjustment, overall interial material quality is lacking, way too much engine noise in the cabin (sienna has similar problem when push hard on the top end), and poor 3rd design.

    Either van has its short coming. You would think that at 40k that both honda and toyota would make a perfect van.
  • chiawchiaw Member Posts: 92
    i had to disagree on BMW quality. Mechanically BMW are very sound in terms of quality. BMW took a major hit recently with so much software issues with its I-drive. My none I-drive BMW (530i, m3, m5). All were mechanically sound (my m3 was outside recall range on the bearing).

    I had more problem with hondas i owned through out the year than I did with BMW. Toyota on the other hand is really trouble free. Boring to drive, but super reliable.
  • chiawchiaw Member Posts: 92
    no, i don't think honda quality is really there.

    I have posted many time on my trouble with honda in the past. i will post again.

    1st honda- 1992 leafgreen metallic LX- trouble free except for warped rotor and pads at 10k miles. car was wrecked in front end collision and SRS failed to function.

    2nd honda- 1994 Sage green metallic EX- blown A/C compressor, ABS module failure, warped brakes.

    3rd honda- 1998 heather mist metallic LX-V6. Trouble free.

    4th honda- 2000 laguna green TL, deformed windshield trims, broken center console, tranmission recall, 3 set of brakes due to warpage, numerous rattle (unfixable).
  • andrewtran71andrewtran71 Member Posts: 840
    "I don't know why folks are jumping down each others throats"

    Oh, C'mon Steve.
    At least you can come home each night and tell your wife, "Honey, you wouldn't believe the things people say on this forum!"

    But anyways, it only happens Monday-Thursday. It stops Fri, Sat, Sun, and Holidays:-)
  • andrewtran71andrewtran71 Member Posts: 840
    "Do you know that BMW has a very bad reliability reputation according to Consumer Reports?"

    Oh, no. Great. There goes my thought of getting a beemer van since reliability is my number one factor.

    Okay, Steve, any teasers on Lexus/Acura minivans?
    Please say there's something out there!
  • donleungdonleung Member Posts: 22
    Did anyone here notice that the Motorweek 2005 Odyssey EX was slower 0-60 mph and in the 1/4 mile than the Motorweek 2004 Sienna XLE?

    This should show that the performance of the vehicles is much closer than the 25 BHP difference would predict due to the fact that the Odyssey is much heavier.

    In its favor the Odyssey did get better mileage than the Sienna when comparing the Motorweek tests.
  • greg_ygreg_y Member Posts: 26
    The body of the Toyota Sienna review at Motorweek indicates that the test van had run-flats. This would indicate that the Sienna being tested had AWD. This would mean that the Sienna and Odyssey would be about the same weight.

    A Sienna with FWD would be several hundred pounds lighter and should be faster than the AWD van.
  • andrewtran71andrewtran71 Member Posts: 840
    "Odyssey did get better mileage than the Sienna when comparing the Motorweek tests"

    How much better was it?
  • donleungdonleung Member Posts: 22
    I assumed that it was an FWD XLE model with the "optional" run flats.

    The XLE AWD Sienna is about 250 - 300 lbs less than the Odyssey Touring.

    I believe that Toyota's numbers give the FWD model about a 0.5 second advantage in 0-60 over the AWD model (8.3 vs 8.8).
  • greg_ygreg_y Member Posts: 26
    You could be right about the run-flats. I have seen the Sienna 0-60 mph times go as low as 7.6 seconds (Car & Driver). The Sienna is definitely no slouch.

    The one thing I noted in my test drive of all three vans (Sienna, Quest, Odyssey) was that at part throttle applications, the Sienna felt very strong. I assume this has something to do with the lower torque peak of 3,600 rpms for the Sienna versus the higher rpms of the Odyssey and Quest.

    I thought they were all great drivers though.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Forbes thinks that the Sienna XLE Limited AWD is the Lexus minivan.

    The American International Automobile Dealers Association says the top-of-the-line Odyssey Touring model is so luxurious that it’s practically an Acura.

    I want to know which one is the Sedona of minivans (I'm still struggling with $30k minivans, much less $40k ones!).

    Steve, Host
  • andrewtran71andrewtran71 Member Posts: 840
    "Forbes thinks that the Sienna XLE Limited AWD is the Lexus minivan.
    The American International Automobile Dealers Association says the top-of-the-line Odyssey Touring model is so luxurious that it’s practically an Acura."

    Have these people seen the Hertz Car Rental commercial?

    NOT EXACTLY!

    I'm sure BMW would just love if somebody says, "The Ody is PRACTICALLY a BMW rebadged and reshaped as a minivan".
    Just because they "wanted" the Ody to drive like a BMW doesn't mean it drives like a BMW.

    Fact is, the Ody is a Honda and the Sienna is a Toyota, and people need to just leave it at that.
  • mikamika Member Posts: 7
    I don't want to change the subject here (by the way, great comments everyone!!!), but I have a question:
    Why is that all car rentals (Hertz, Avis, etc.) do not have Toyota or Honda mini vans. They only have American junk like Chevy Venture or Pont Montana. If a resale value in general is so good on transplant vehicles, why not have them for a rental car? Thank you!
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Mazda MPV. Almost as small without much better fuel economy + has a Ford engine.
        Mazda needs to change their slogan to:

          "PAY MORE - EXPECT LESS"
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    American minivans are NOT junk. They are junk only to the CR afficionados who have been brainwashed into thinking that Toyota and Honda are the only reliable brands.
         Apparently American brands ACTUALLY COST LESS TO OPERATE when everything is considered. Or is the answer that American brands are more comfortable?
         I feel that the Honda Odyssey is THE BEST minivan but I am not a purchaser for rental companies.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    The smaller size of the MPV is appealing to some of us. My older Quest fits into my 1975 era garage ok; not sure a newer Quest/Sienna/Odyssey would.

    Steve, Host
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,507
    that reminds me. I never figured out how easily an Ody would fit into my circa 1993 garage. Out Quest fits fine, but you have to be careful not to nick the mirrors.

    I really need to borrow a van for an hour to take it home and find out.

    Can anyone supply width for Sienna and Ody? I really want to know mirror tip->tip. I believe the published width is w/o mirrors.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • hifisoftwarehifisoftware Member Posts: 69
    After complaining about Honda I end up buying a new Ody.
    To be fair I got EX cloth because I really could not accept idea of PAX. After reading some recent reports on VCM engine vibrations at high speeds I ruled out buying a Ody EX-L.

    At cloth level both vans are very similar. With Sienna you can't have two power doors, but Sienna has other advantages (3rd row windows can be opened and so on). Price wise/value Sienna is actually better (IMHO).
    I liked Ody design better, but that's subjective and will vary from person to person.

    At higher end models Honda messed up with VCM and PAX. They choose not to use these technologies on say Acura. Why? Because they are new and expiremental Nobody knows how reliable and useful these items will be?
  • mikamika Member Posts: 7
    Can anyone tell me if a previously reported (2 weeks ago) wind noise on '05 Ody is a confirmed issue? And what about '05 Sienna?
    Suggested road test conditions: should be driving on freeway between 65 and 80 mph, with all windows/doors propersly closed, and radio/RES/wife/kids all turned off.
    Thank you!
  • ch1313ch1313 Member Posts: 12
    "I view folding second row seats as a negative rather than a positive."

    I'm not sure how you would think it as a negative addition. If you have a family with kids, you will appreciate the folding seat. When you have kids, you have groceries and you have shopping. I have my Quest for 5 months now. In the five months, I had to fold down the seats 5 times. When we go shopping, there are times that we have buy things unplanned. These stuff can sometimes take up space. That's when the folding seat comes in handy.

    The folding seat is a convenience, not a necessity. However, when you have the need to use it, it is becomes important, or you could use your both arms to carry those seats out and pray that you don't break your back.

    Nissan did a comparison of the second seat for Sienna and Quest. It says that Sienna second seat, although can be moved, can easiy scratch and damage the plastic that covers it.
  • hpanhpan Member Posts: 61
    "However, due to legal issues that toyota perceives, it still does not allow input to the navi while in motion."

    In fact, it does allow input, at least at low speed, as I did once while driving from the parking lot onto the street.

    One thing the salesperson said is new in '05 is the adjustable arm rests.
  • hifisoftwarehifisoftware Member Posts: 69
    I do not have any wind noise. Even if it's there it should be fixable.

    I belive that part of the problem is the liner at the bottom of the windshield. Sometimes it's not properly installed. This was the case with my car. I demanded that they fixed it and they fixed it in 5 min.
  • donleungdonleung Member Posts: 22
    The summary data from the relevant Motorweek tests is as follows:

    0-60: Ody 8.7 s, Sienna 8.4 s
    1/4 mile: Ody 16.8s @ 85 mph; Sienna 16.6s @ 76(?) mph
    60-0: Ody 130 ft; Sienna 135 ft
    Ave MPG: Ody 22; Sienna 20

    Don
  • andrewtran71andrewtran71 Member Posts: 840
    Thanks for the info.
    Did they have any interior noise level data?

    Seems to me like the new Ody is "too Toyota-like":-)

    I mean, it's slower, has better fuel economy, and is now very quiet.

    Hmmm, Ody EX-L w/NAV+RES for $34,600 MSRP.
    This means by next year, I could be driving one for $31K. Not bad.

    Afterall, it is "practically an Acura" :-) Just kidding***hee**hee
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    I would question the 1/4mile speed on the Sienna too. More like 86, not 76, given the slightly quicker ET for the Sienna at 16.6seconds.

    All that said, unless Motorweek corrects for atmospheric conditions (temp, barometric pressure, and humidity), you can't read too much into those numbers since the two tests were done months apart. For all we know, the Sienna may have been tested under better conditions, or the Ody when it was hot and humid. The ONLY time I'll try to draw conclusions from comparing acceleration times is if the vehicles were tested at the same time (same conditions), and by the same driver if possible.

    I'm still awaiting a C&D back to back comparison test before I draw any conclusions about which is quicker.

    One thing for sure: the 25hp advantage the Ody has doesn't seem to translate into any real street benefit.....but it is interesting that the heavier, more powerful vehicle DID get 10% better mileage than the Sienna.
  • vcarrerasvcarreras Member Posts: 247
    on 10/1/04. I drove it from Houston to San Antonio last weekend. First fillup gave me 19.6mpg. I don't think tank was completely filled by the dealer when delivered. I'll be filling it up in the next few days and I'll report. Driving at speeds between 70 and up to 90 at one point I noticed very little wind noise. Leaving next weekend for Atlanta and St. Petersburg. I'll give full report when I get back. My wife and I both love it.
  • donleungdonleung Member Posts: 22
    I'm not inferring that the Sienna XLE will always beat the Odyssey but rather meant to point out that it will be competitive.

    The actual tests were probably a year and a half apart; both were done just after public release.

    Likewise the braking test could have been done with different surface conditions even if at the same track.

    The better mileage is due to the VCM system; I believe the non-VCM Ody is behind the Sienna in mileage.
  • soyyo1soyyo1 Member Posts: 18
    No noise,,,I drove from Boston To Orange, CA in 3 days in the noise was minimum ...I turrn the radio off and traying to listen to any noise was vewry good ..I can't say is no noise ata all but is so different then my 4runner
  • vcarrerasvcarreras Member Posts: 247
    in our 05 Ody EX. With the cruise at 75 my wife and I listening to CD's on low volume could talk to each other without lifting our voices. That's how quiet it is. Above 80 the noise level goes up a little but not much..
  • racerx1racerx1 Member Posts: 35
    At one time or another, most rental car agencies were owned by the Big 3 as an outlet for the cars. Hertz is still owned by Ford. The rental companies enabled the mfrs to run their plants at full capacity & achieve better efficiency.

    Also, the Big 3 captive finance companies also helped with fleet financing. I am not sure if the Big 3 were really big if you stripped out fleet sales.
  • homer2005homer2005 Member Posts: 11
    Mileage comparison (EPA estimates):

    Sienna FWD: 19/26
    Sienna AWD: 18/24

    Odyssey w/o VCM: 19/25
    Odyssey with VCM: 20/28

    In the grand scheme of things, you'd save about $700 over 100,000 miles by choosing the Odyssey VCM over the non-VCM (assuming 50/50 city/highway and gas at $2 per gallon). Obviously you'd save a little more if you drive mostly on the highway, but even at 100% highway miles you'd only save another $150 (VCM vs. non-VCM & $2 per gallon). Potential buyers might want to consider this when they decide?
  • baileybradbaileybrad Member Posts: 33
    Are you factoring in that to get the Sienna numbers that you will need to use premium fuel. Otherwise with "regular" unleaded, according to a Toyota salesman, it can drop off as much as 3 MPG. He did say that there have not been any problems show up over long haul by using unleaded as opposed to premium. He mentioned that many folks use unleaded...not sure what that is based upon.
  • indy93indy93 Member Posts: 97
    Where did you get the info on the 05 Sienna NAVI..I was wondering why there are no 05 Sienna's with NAVI in my area....which includes Longo T. Can you add the mike and button as an accesory? ( for the Ltd )
  • donleungdonleung Member Posts: 22
    I realize that in order to get Toyota's rated BHP and torque that you would likely require premium fuel.

    However, the Motorweek review only mentions mileage based on regular fuel.
  • notoyo4menotoyo4me Member Posts: 1
    please read my message which i just posted. i had the same problem this past sunday. as i was leaving north carolina for a 13 hour, 800 mile trip to florida, my low pressure sensor came on. i drove to a gas station at 6:15 am andput air in my tires. several minutes later, the light went on again. i stopped and heard air coming out of my front tire. i opened the trunk and went looking for my jack, whick i found. i then went looking for my spare, which i did not find. it turned out i did not have a spare, i had run flat tires (i was not told i had this). AAA told me they could not do anything for me - they could only change my tire, but since i did not have a spare, there was not much they could do. i drove 25 miles on my flat run-flat to a nearby walmart only to find they could not fix it and did not stock replacements. i called toyota customer service 800 number (worthless) to find they are closed weekends. all local toyota dealerships were closed. i was stranded! upon my return home the next day i checked with all the toyota dealers and no one stocks the tires. they can order them (3-5 day delivery) and they cost close to $300.00 each! the tires cannot be mixed/matched with regular tires, so you are stuck with these monsters. it has made me a very unhappy toyota customer - i'll never buy their products again. their customer service stinks!
  • hansiennahansienna Member Posts: 2,312
    Toyota and Honda goofed by putting "run-flats" on their premium Sienna and Odyssey.
         Another example of how engineers have lost touch with the real world of owners.
         Chrysler made a goof with 2nd row "Stow-N-Go". Buyers of luxury minivans don't want to be stranded by not having a spare or having the ability to turn their luxury minivan into a cargo van.
  • torquetorque Member Posts: 14
    Could it really be true that the US version of the 05' Ody does NOT have Daytime running lights? If so, why not? Isn't this a safety issue?

    I didn't know that they still made cars without DRL.
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