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Comments
I don't think that is true. Consumer Reports, for one, doesn't overemphasize handling, except when it reviews sports cars, although it does place a big emphasis on safe, predictable emergency handling.
Well, in that case, you have your answer. The Fit is far more sporty, with better steering response and braking, way better handling, and a better shifter, than the Yaris, so I guess Toyota has just lost the ability to make cars any better than five-year-old Hondas. Oh, but wait, the Yaris is the best-selling subcompact on the market this year (except for maybe the Aveo, the jury is still out)!! What can THAT mean??!!
As for the Accent SE comparison, the Hyundai's handling is very good, but the shifter is not. It is, however, a bit cheaper than the Fit Sport (but does not have the cruise control at that price), and for those who don't need the extra two doors, the Accent SE should be a close second for all those subcompact-shopping, sporty-prioritizing, consumers out there. :-P
(Not to mention, the Accent is a HECK of a lot easier to find on dealer lots than the Fit)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
FYI, Yaris L/B automatic w ABS/power/power pkg is available in my area (Colorado), although I would probably have to order it.
And yes, I'm looking for fuel economy, which is why I've narrowed my search to Fit or Yaris. (But you definitely had a good point, Backy, re the extra $100/year...)
Here's a sentence or 2 re the Yaris from the CR report that concerns me:
"Handling is sloppy and unforgiving at its limits."
"The rear end slid out too easily...esp in the hatchback."
What's up with that? and are those big matters for concern? I have only moderate expectations of a sub-compact--I don't expect the ride or performance of a bigger car, but still, want to get the biggest bang for my buck etc.
I have loved my last 2 Toyotas--which is why I"m now interested in feedback from Honda fans. I've never even considered a Honda before....
Thanks for your help!
One thing CR did do that augers well for the Yaris. The ECHO is recommended as a used car in all six years of its production.
"(Not to mention, the Accent is a HECK of a lot easier to find on dealer lots than the Fit)"
I think you inadvertently answered your own question. Toyota has a lot more dealers, Yaris are available on all the Toyota lots, and Honda has limited Fit imports to 3k for 2007. No supply is severely limiting sales. If Honda could bring over as many Fits as Toyota brings over Yaris, who would be the sales leader?
What does it mean either way? Nothing. The top selling subcompact is not the Yaris or Fit as stated it is the the Chevrolet Aveo. Does that make the Aveo the best car? Not hardly.
It appears that is the case. Even the four-year-old Accord is considered by many professional reviewers to be superior to the all-new Camry. And as we've discussed, the five-year-old Fit is universally regarded (except by Yaris owners and hard-core Toyota fans it seems) to be superior to the all-new Yaris.
BTW, the Accent SE is a LOT less expensive than the Fit Sport. Actually, the Accent SE is only $50 more list price than the BASE Fit, even though the Accent includes additional features such as 16" alloys, full gauges, dual lighted vanity mirrors, height adjustable driver's seat, driver's arm rest, and dead pedal:
Accent SE MT: $14,495 MSRP including destination
Base Fit MT: $14,445
The Fit Sport MT is nearly $1300 more than the Accent SE MT. If we are talking value champs here (and I guess we are), I would say the Accent SE certainly qualifies, much more so than either the Yaris or the Fit.
And discounts are availble on the Accent, but not on the Fit.
See: http://www.pluginamerica.com/
And: http://www.pluginamerica.com/faq.shtml
"It appears that is the case. Even the four-year-old Accord is considered by many professional reviewers to be superior to the all-new Camry. And as we've discussed, the five-year-old Fit is universally regarded (except by Yaris owners and hard-core Toyota fans it seems) to be superior to the all-new Yaris."
OK, you've convinced me. The Yaris is a real POS and shouldn't be selling so well. The Accent and Fit are superior cars. In fact, I think I'll rush right out today and buy one of each!
The best seller is certainly not the best car for everyone, and only very rarely the best car as agreed on by car mag editors.
But backy: I am surprised to hear you contend that professional car reviewers do NOT put too much emphasis on sportiness. For some of them, the "sport quotient" is about 50% of the total points the car can earn! Isn't that ridiculous? Safety, reliability, durability, value for the dollar, amenities, all this other stuff gets squeezed into the space left over after they rate 0-60 times and slalom speeds.
And while sportiness is fun, and I like it as much as the next person, it is overrated for many categories of cars I think, including midsize family sedans, minivans, and yes - even subcompact commute cars!
I will chime in with the other thing you said though: for anyone who likes some sportiness and doesn't absolutely have to have five doors, the ACcent should be a mandatory test drive. It will pleasantly suprise most folks, I am sure. For me, the shifter and lack of factory cruise would be a deal-breaker, but then I pretty much have to have those five doors anyway, so the Accent and Yaris are tempting but probably won't get my money.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I am surprised too, because that's not what I contended. Recall that you said a few posts ago:
A. every consumer rag that reports on cars places far more emphasis on handling and sports-car attributes than most consumers do
And I disagreed with that blanket statement, and noted that Consumer Reports is an example of a "consumer rag that reports on cars" that doesn't put more emphasis on handling and sports-car attributes than most consumers do.
Do some mags that report on cars do that? Sure. C/D for one. But not every one of them.
P.S. If you don't like the shifter feel on the Accent but prefer a more notchy shifter as on the Fit, I have read that the optional short-throw shift kit for the Accent is notchier than the stock shifter.
http://www.consumerreports.org:80/cro/cars/pricing/best-worst-in-car-reliability- -1005/best-worst-models/index.htm
Once again this describes me. I would rather have a Fit but with the price discounting and availability of the Yaris, I am leaning that direction.
What did you think of the handling of the 2007 Accent SE when you drove it? How did it compare to the Yaris?
Honda Fit: 25,702 sold (all trims) :confuse:
Toyota Yaris: 64,082 sold (all trims) :P
For every 1 Honda Fit that has sold this year, 2.5 Toyota Yaris sold. If you want to check out the sales database at Automotive news, it will cost you $15 for a weeks online subscription. :mad:
Sales numbers are free at aicaautosite.
2) The entry level economy car market is extremely competitive right now, and for Honda to act like it is Microsoft (Monopoly) is just stupid in terms of economics. The entry level economy car market is an Oligopoly, not a Monopoly. The competition is too good to limit the supply of a quality product in this market. Honda could be cashing in big right now, but they missed out because they missed diagnosed the entry level economy car market.
3) I graduated with a degree in economics, so I have full understanding of its concepts and principals.
This is very true. At one point early in the process (late summer) I got kind of ticked at the dealer I was going to buy from and was seriously considering changing my mind toward a Fit. I called a nearby Honda dealer to see if they had one on the lot and he told he didn't expect any more for the rest of the year. I had left my name with a Honda salesman at a dealer next door to the Toyota dealer I was dealing with. One afternoon I got a call that they had just received a Fit and I could have bought it. But, it was red and all pimped out with some kind of sport package. Probably real sharp, but too expensive and not my style. I would loved to have at least taken a test drive, so I called him the following morning to see if I could run over. But, he said someone had already put a deposit on it.
We like our Yaris, but had Fits been available I just might be driving one--especially if that CR article had come out last summer rather than last month. Very glad to see the Yaris right in there as most reliable. The combination of reliability and great mpg is precisely why I was looking at the Echo and Yaris.
Thanks to everyone who posted the info.
The Honda Fit is a top of the line car for this market, but bad business decisions by Honda executives have left potential Honda Fit consumers looking for alternatives.
And backy, the Accent is a very good, moderately sporty econoride let down by a shifter which is mediocre at best. It is not a question of the notchiness or lack thereof, it is a question of wanting precision in the gates and NOT a ton of slop in or out of gear. A short shifter won't fix either of those problems. The shifter in the Yaris, while not exceptional, is very decent. The shifter in the Fit is true to Honda tradition, far and away the best of the bunch IMHO.
And there is no question in my mind that Honda's Fit would be giving the Yaris a hard run for its money in the sales race if in fact Honda could have devoted enough production to the Fit to bring over more than 30-40K of them per year.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Believe it or not, more Odysseys are sold than the top 3 subcompacts combined. About 170K for the year.
Not even close to Chrysler's 350K in minivan sales -- guess someone's still buying 'em.
I agree. To me it has the styling of a grocery cart. Style wise I like the Yaris best of all--especially the liftback.
Next I like the looks of the Rio. Looks kind of european, although I wouldn't have bought one after speaking with a neighbor who has both an Echo and a Rio.
The Versa looks like it was built from plans smuggled out of the Honda design department.
The Accent looks like a Ford.
I like the looks of the Yaris best, although I will concede that, based on the CR report, the Fit might be a better car overall. Doesn't matter if you can't buy one, though.
Often times, including myself, in these forms people want to get into a battle royal in terms of comparisons. The topic is "Toyota Yaris: Is it a Good Value." Not Toyota Yaris verses Honda Fit, or any other car.
I agree that if you are looking for an entry-level car (with few features) that is likely to be reliable and has excellent fuel economy and a smooth ride for the class, and those are your key criteria, then the Yaris is a good value. Unfortunately, there are compromises I see in the Yaris that do not make it a good choice for me, because my requirements go beyond those I listed. But for others it can be a great choice.
The Yaris is to today's market as the original VW Beetle was to the 1960s: basic, reliable, durable, fuel-efficient, and fun to drive for what it is.
I could make some other comparisons between the Yaris and '60s vintage Beetle... but I won't.
It isn't, and doesn't need to be.
It IS a good value. The only other car in its class that is also a good value is the Fit.
The Accent and Versa get poor MPG, as does Aveo (with poor quality to boot).
MPG is the #1 consideration.
The Accent gets very good mpg, e.g. 30 mpg average in CR's tests, which they stated was "very good." The Versa gets a bit less than that, but for a car with its size, power, and room still quite good.
If mpg is the #1 consideration for you, wouldn't a car like a Prius, HCH, or Golf diesel (used, for now) be just the thing? Or even a used ECHO, which would return higher mpg than the Yaris.
Readers should get better information from Edmunds long term test and automotive magazine reviews.
We all know that this guy is bias in favor of Hyundai.
At its limits, the Yaris is sloppy with so-so grip. The rear end slid out too easily in our avoidance maneuver and around our track, especially in the hatchback. The Yaris would benefit greatly from stability control, but like on the other cars here it's not available.
Stopping distances for our non-ABS hatchback were extremely long, and ABS is hard to find.
-- From CR, December 2006, p. 62
We also know that C/D has it in for Toyota, right?
Third, its [Yaris S sedan's] steering, impressively light in town, is overassisted at speed and directional stability suffers--you'll want to keep both hands on the wheel above 55 mph.
-- From C/D, May 2006, p. 70
Yep, that bias for Hyundai is rampant I guess! Anyone who thinks the Yaris has compromises, even automotive magazine reviewers, and doesn't think the Yaris is the best-handling and best-braking car in this class is obviously biased towards Hyundai.
Also, the only people who are permitted to express opinions here are those who love the Yaris. If you might prefer another car, say a Fit or an Accent, no need to post your opinion because you will be accused of being obviously biased towards Hyundai. Which is a felony in most states I think?
Yep, for sure.
Read and weep Hyundai apologist!
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=115397
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=109860
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/10925/15000-cheap-skates.html
The Yaris is faster at 0-60 MpH, faster at slalom and stops shorter by a foot compared to the Accent. The Accent has ABS at that. I dont know where you get the information that Accent is better than the Yaris in handling and breaking. Is it from your supposedly objective test drive review? Give me a break!
Also emergency situations are simply emergency situations, not day to day driving. Consumer Reports test drivers do many things that are not good for a car. For example slamming on the gas pedal to see how fast the car can go from 0 to 60 MPH or driving at the highest speeds and making sudden stops. Both ruin your miles per gallon. So most of the time there is no need to push your car to its limits on your way to a local grocery store 6 to 10 blocks away.
If you are interested in a Hyundai verse Yaris discussion, that message board topic is available.
It's NOT hard to find. And as pointed out above, the Yaris with ABS is very capable in braking ability.
Maybe Backy thinks that all features should be standard equipment; that all options should be included on every car.
But this is an entry-level, bare-bones automobile. (You can trim it out nicely if you want to.)
Backy, the cars you mentioned as alternatives (Prius, for example) cost much more to purchase (and diesel fuel is not as available and higher-priced). I cannot afford such a car. My income dictates that the car should cost below $16,000 new. And why would I buy a used Echo, when the Yaris MPG is nearly as good and it's a much improved car over the Echo?
The 30-MPG average you cite for the Accent is the absolute MINIMUM that a car in this class should achieve. It is barely adequate... certainly NOT a standout.
I cannot fathom your intense dislike for the Yaris, unless you just enjoy being contrary. The Yaris is a simple, durable, fuel-efficient car that does its job well. Sales figures bear out my viewpoint.
He said his Rio is more problematic than his Echo, and the 10 year/100k warranty is not what it's cracked up to be. He said that when you really get down to examining everything that is "excluded" from the warranty it is very disappointing.
Driving a car to its limits is very possible in daily driving, in emergency situations.
That's the whole point. If you discount those characteristics as not applicable in uneventful day-to-day driving, then why put in air bags, seat belts, or even bother with crash testing? In fact, wasn't it Mr. Ferrari who when once criticized about poor braking on one of his cars said something like, "This car isn't made to stop, it's made to go." So, why worry about braking at all? Yes, it's the emergency situations that we face that make these tests important. Granted, more important to some than others, but still significant and noteworthy.
"Backy..I cannot fathom your intense dislike for the Yaris, unless you just enjoy being contrary.
I think that's the case. It seems that some people's mission in life is to always find the cloud around the silver lining. Backy has made it clear that a Yaris isn't for him. Fine, why the obsession with running it down and splitting hairs over every comment someone leaves here?
Emergencies tend to be rare for drivers like myself who tend to cruise (not speed race). Most of the time I will not need the emergency features, but there is always that one crazy driver on the road who changes the situation from safe to dangerous.
Some are more valuable than others
Ten years ago the Corolla was the standard against which every other subcompact was measured. These days, however, it's clear the competition has looked to a higher standard than the Yaris.
For $2 grand less than the price of our test car, you could get a similarly equipped Hyundai Accent with a better warranty, an equally spacious interior and decent cupholders. Or for $16K you could go with the loaded Honda Fit Sport, which is more fun to drive and has a better stereo, superior ergonomics and a more flexible interior.
Any way you look at it, the 2007 Toyota Yaris is average. And when you're trying to save the world, average doesn't cut it. Even people who wear hemp socks know that.
Bottom Line:
It's better-looking and more comfortable than its predecessor, but there's nothing unique enough about the Yaris to recommend it over its numerous — and often cheaper — competitors.
And those competitors, as noted in the Edmunds.com review, include the Fit and Accent--two cars I happen to prefer over the Yaris. So call me a "Hyundai apologist" if you want, but then that label must apply to the editors of Edmunds.com too.
P.S. See my earlier post for third-party comments about the deficiencies in the Yaris' handling and braking. Those were not MY opinions.