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Honda Civic GX

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Comments

  • lali001lali001 Member Posts: 4
    Hi,

    Folks I did not ask advice on what I should do, I do know how this car works, I have it, there is no gasoline tank in it its CNG only. I do know new tank needs space, I want to add one, I do have rest of the trunk, I dont care if I loose all of it.

    It is a good commut evehicle, I live in Orange County but I can travel to have the addition done. Currently I am getting 170 miles from full tank, even if this range increases by 100 miles or less, its still fine for me.

    By the way power wise, its not that noticeable, I do have another Honda in another country which is gasoline and CNG, when you switch you do loose power, so example is say topspeed is 100 with gasoline u get 90 with CNG.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I want to add one

    I did some research here in San Diego. The company that used to do CNG coversions are no longer doing them. He gave me the name of the only company he knows of that will mess with CNG conversions. It is Cleantech in Los Angeles. I cannot post the number on the board. Hopefully you can get it out of the directory assistance. good luck
  • mkzmkz Member Posts: 4
    I live in Orange County and commute to LA. I can usually get over 220 miles per tank. The difference is that I fill up at the CleanEnergy station near LAX, whose pumps seem to have the highest pressure. It has, however, the highest prices I've seen: I paid $2.09/gal today. Long Beach Gas, on the other hand, is just over $1.50/gal. But to me range is more important.

    My 2004 model has no trouble getting to 100 mph; it just takes a while to get there.
  • mkzmkz Member Posts: 4
    gagrice did mention Phill. I assume that you would just hook your car up to Phill every night, so range is only an issue if your round trip exceeded 200 miles.

    If this is the case, then you would not need an extra tank, which I suspect may approach the cost of Phill. (I've seen ads that quote $1400 to extend a Crown Vic.)

    Speaking of Phill, does anyone know its status? Last year they said Spring 2005, which is now.
  • mkzmkz Member Posts: 4
    For those who don't own a GX, the tank lives behind the back seat. It is the width of the car and leaves the trunk about 1 foot deep. When you look through your rear speaker grilles, you see the tank and no speakers. Because there is no room for speakers!
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    First of three consecutive evenings of chat start tonight. Mazda Mania is up first, then a session with Marc Trahan from Audi, followed by the Subaru Crew on Thursday.
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  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Speaking of Phill, does anyone know its status?

    I talked to the manufacturer in Canada. They are available now, $3400 plus shipping and installation. It would take a while to pay for itself. However I understand an ICE burning CNG has a much longer life span. Again this setup would be for someone with a roundtrip commute under 200 miles. Or a CNG station at the half way point.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Civic GX now on sale to the general public (in California only for now) from Honda: :D

    http://automobiles.honda.com/models/model_overview.asp?ModelName=Civic+GX
  • gxsocalgxsocal Member Posts: 2
    I have to fill up more frequently certainly, but I haven't needed any home filling stations-- in fact, I just got back from Vegas in the thing. And I would've made it to San Fran if it wasn't for Visalia's stupid card requirements...
  • gxsocalgxsocal Member Posts: 2
    Anyone ever had this happen? 2 of my friends drove my GX and 3 times they claim the engine shut off as they were going around a turn. It's never happened to me, but they said it was bizarre and scary.
  • electrictroyelectrictroy Member Posts: 564
    "And I would've made it to San Fran if it wasn't for Visalia's stupid card requirements..."

    .

    What do you mean?
  • mkzmkz Member Posts: 4
    Does anyone know approximately how much a "gallon" of gas from your home gas line is?

    Also, the Phill FAQ states that it takes about 4 hours to replenish 50 miles of fuel. My commute is over 100 miles. That could be cutting it close.
  • poboypoboy Member Posts: 11
    You can rent and buy the GX's (and other environmentally-friendly cars) from EV Rentals. Phoenix has a branch - see the locations at:

    http://www.evrental.com/index.html

    I just bought my 2001 Honda Civic GX from them for much cheaper than what you could get from the dealer. It doesn't have a warranty (it's like buying from a private party), but even the local Honda dealer said there was no way for them to match the price.

    According to their website, EV Rentals has one green 2001 for sale in Phoenix. You just missed out on the 2001 models - they just had eight of them shipped from Phoenix to Los Angeles. I bought one of them.

    Got another place to look in Phoenix? Evrentals stopped selling them since they weren't selling very well. They shipped their last one to LA last week :(. I definitely missed the boat on that one. I'll have to ship one from LA to Phoenix as a result, but if there is another location to look...

    Thanks!
  • dhirddhird Member Posts: 3
    One U.S. gasoline gallon equivalent (GGE) is, by definition, equal to 5.660 lbs of natural gas (a mass flow meter is used at the NGV station to measure high pressure natural gas accurately in pounds and converts to GGE). However, residential heating natural gas is either sold by volume (cubic foot) or by heating value (Btu or therm). I believe one pound mass of natural gas occupies 24.15 cubic feet at standard temperature and pressure (on which all rates are applied). Assuming your residential gas rate today is $1 per CCF (per 100 cubic feet) or $10 per MCF (1000 cubic feet) or $1 per therm or $1 per 100,000 Btu (all 4 mean the same thing), then your residential gas cost is equal to $1 ÷ 100 x 24.15 x 5.66 = $1.367 per GGE. Actual pump prices of gasoline or CNG may include transportation fuel taxes while home heating fuel may have a significantly different tax levy.
  • gx222gx222 Member Posts: 32
    gxsocal -

    Yes, I have experienced the engine stalling, for me it happened on the freeway at about 65mph, I had to coast across 4 lanes of traffic to get to the shoulder. It restarted after I stopped.

    The problem is only certain Honda dealers will work on the GX, none are close to me. :(

    Has anyone figured out how to put speakers on the back of the car? I'm tired of listening to a 2 speaker stereo system, it stinks!
  • gx222gx222 Member Posts: 32
    does anyone else have a problem sometimes taking a long time to crank the engine before it will start? For me sometimes it starts fairly quickly, but other times it cranks for a long time before it will finally start.
  • electrictroyelectrictroy Member Posts: 564
    "Has anyone figured out how to put speakers on the back of the car? I'm tired of listening to a 2 speaker stereo system, it stinks! "

    .

    Sounds like my insight. I'm surprised the GX doesn't have any rear speakers! Anyway, wouldn't it be as simple as running the Line wires from the front speakers to the rear speakers? I did that in my home, and it works just fine.

    troy
  • 2000gx2000gx Member Posts: 1
    There's room for speakers in the back on the side panels above the rear seat. First remove the plastic trim panel, then it get's interesting... You need to be REALLY careful removing/cutting away the inner sheet metal in the shape of the speaker you plan to install; it's very close to the outside skin of the vehicle (I'm not certain whether I put in 5" or 6" round speakers, but there was a bit more room for other sizes, so long as they are not too deep). Hope this helps.
  • nostrom0nostrom0 Member Posts: 44
    Just bought a 2005 Civic GX. I installed rear speakers in the rear doors, near the hinges. Vast improvement.
    Next I'll be installing the Phill device. :)
  • jhoward1968jhoward1968 Member Posts: 1
    I'm going to buy a 2000 Civic GX with in the next week. I have found the location of various CNG stations, but some seem to necessitate access cards. I can't seem to find anything about this online. Can anyone lend some info? Any other suggestions or advice for a new owner? Thank you! jen
  • gx222gx222 Member Posts: 32
    The stations I go to don't have the access cards you describe. Before you buy, make sure you have enough stations nearby and in the areas where you normally drive. The range on these cars isn't very good so you'll be filling up a lot and you will need to know the locations of the stations. And don't run the tank too low, I went to a station the other day and it was broken, so I had to find another one which was 12 miles away.

    One word of advice is to be careful at these stations, they are usually unattended, off the beaten path, (on side streets, etc.), and often you'll be the only one there, especially at night. If you are at some of these stations at night, be aware of your surroundings!

    The other thing to watch out for is sometimes you might pull up behind a bus or trash truck being filled up and you'll have to wait for 10 minutes before you can fill up (making you late for wherever you are trying to go.)
  • nostrom0nostrom0 Member Posts: 44
    Check out www.cleancarmaps.com. They have descriptions of the sites and if there are restrictions for access. Some are only open during business hours (usually private stations).
  • nostrom0nostrom0 Member Posts: 44
    The Clean Energy station I use near LAX has 8 pumps at 2 different islands. I never have to wait to fill up. It's well lit and heavily trafficked.

    By far the cheapest and most convenient method of refueling is using the Phill device at home. No wasted time going to the gas station. :)
    I consider this convenience one of the greatest assests of the Civic GX.
  • gx222gx222 Member Posts: 32
    Half of those pumps at LAX are only the 3000psi pumps though. Depending what time of day you go, even LAX might have all 4 of the 3600 pumps in use by Super Shuttle vans, United Airlines buses and taxi cabs. A lot of the other Clean Energy stations only have one 3600psi pump and if you are stuck behind a school bus, might as well get comfortable, it'll be a wait.

    The LAX station is the exception to the heavily trafficked issue, being right on Aviation Blvd. Many other stations are in out-of-the-way areas and, at night, can be like ghost towns, or are in areas you don't even want to be in at night, especially alone.

    The LAX fueling station brings up another issue with CNG stations, that is the lack of restroom facilities. Most have none, but LAX has one of those plastic port-a-pottys...ugh.

    Just some issues to consider regarding the CNG experience and the need to plan out your fueling stops in advance.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Have you installed a Phill unit in your garage? If so was it a big deal? How can they possibly tax your fuel with that system? I think I read that it comes out to about 60 cents per equivalent gallon of unleaded regular. That would make it a great commuter car.
  • moore101moore101 Member Posts: 39
    I just purchased a 1999 Civic GX. It didn't come with an owners manual and I wanted to know if the service schedule and service parts, air-filter, spark plugs, ect. are the same as a normal Civic. I will be commuting about 110 miles a day so the mileage will add up quick.

    Like another poster asked does anyone actually have a home phill unit? Did you install it yourself? What was the purchase price (and install price) and did you get any rebates? One more: can the 12 foot hose be extended to like 20 feet?

    Thanks,
    Loran
  • nostrom0nostrom0 Member Posts: 44
    The service schedule is different. Oil changes are every 10,000 miles. You should find a dealership that has a tech trained for the GX. You can use Honda's website to find who sells and therefore services them in your area.

    I'm soliciting bids for the Phill unit right now. It looks like it'll cost $3400 plus $1000 for installation. No rebates that I know of. Fuelmaker will not allow you to install it yourself. They send the unit to the installer. I would contact Fuelmaker directly about extending the hose. phill@fuelmaker.com.
  • moore101moore101 Member Posts: 39
    4400? Ouch. I think I'll stick with the old-fashioned fill up at a station (about 5 of them on my way to work).
    Thanks for the info on the service. According to honda.com there is a dealer that supports the GX in Monrovia so that isn't too far. I will still do the normal wear item maintence just like my other cars.
  • moore101moore101 Member Posts: 39
    There is a recall for some 98-00 civic's including the GX that have an faulty ignition switch which may cause intermittent stalling

    see this link for more info: http://www.car-recall-database.com/honda-civic-recall-36986.htm
  • moore101moore101 Member Posts: 39
    Does CA require the GX to be smogged?
  • moore101moore101 Member Posts: 39
    I found out a smog check is required just like any other car.
  • gx222gx222 Member Posts: 32
    The GX has a different and much more expensive maintenance schedule than regular GXs.

    The GX requires replacement of the expensive "low pressure fuel filter element" every 10,000 miles. I have quotes from 3 different dealers ranging from $185 to $325 to accomplish this. This is not something you can do yourself, only GX dealers are supposed to do it. If you don't do it you may have warranty problems.

    You also need to inspect the "high pressure fuel filter" every 10,000 miles and replace it every 30,000 miles. The price I got for the rear "CNG filter assembly" is $998 for just the part!!! The GX dealers don't know much about these cars so its hard getting decent info from them. They are pretty much clueless when it comes to the GX, but thats the price the parts department gave me.

    The engine valves need to be inspected every 30,000 (probably the same as other Civics but that is maintenance most cars don't require.) My valves started clattering after 10,000 miles, so I can see why they require this.

    The CVT requires the oil be changed every 24,000 miles or 2 years if you live in a hot environment and drive fast (not sure what they define as high speed) otherwise its at 36,000 miles and again at 60,000 miles.

    The CNG tank needs to be inspected every 3 years or 36,000 miles.

    For those used to a low maintenance car, maintenance costs on this car may come as a shock!!!

    p.s. the 3 GX dealers I am familiar with each only have 1 technician certified to work on the GX, so if that person is off, or on vacation, don't expect your GX to be worked on.
  • moore101moore101 Member Posts: 39
    Thanks for the info. What year is your GX? I got the standard civic owners manual but it does not cover anything about the CNG portion of the car. Did your manual come with a CNG suppliment?
  • gx222gx222 Member Posts: 32
    Mine is a 2003. It came with the regular Civic manual and also a smaller GX supplement.
  • rj90rj90 Member Posts: 1
    Does anyone know where I can buy a used Honda Civic GX in California and where I can add another tank? Thx.
  • cajeffcajeff Member Posts: 4
    I have the Phill. I assisted in the installation. The purchase price is $3400 and there is a $2000 incentive either out or tba. (1000 from the MSRC, and a matching $1000 from SCAQMD that was supposed to be voted upon by the SCAQMD governing board on May 6.) It would, of course only cover the South Coast Air Basin and cover units purchased after Apr 01,2005.

    The scoop, to the best of what I can figure out, is you can lease the unit from Honda, and the $79/month could get down to < $40, pending these incentives..

    The unit uses advanced technology ceramics in the compressor. No oil is used in the compressor.

    Installation cost varies depending on what you have as far as gas lines and where you want to vent it. (It has cooling air and a dryer type vent) It requires a dedicated 120v min 15a circuit. (standard household circuit) Expect $500-1500 depending on your situation. I was going to opt for the second meter, and pay about 76c/T for gas, but I figured the the additional meter charge of $13/month made it not worth it. There is a "blended" SoCal Gas Co rate in the works to reduce your residential rate for certified users of home refueling. It's not out yet, but I'll wait. If I fuel at over baseline residential rates now, my break even is 40T/month. Not even considering the $704 one time fee the gas co wanted for the second meter. (Refundable at the end of 36 months based on some usage requirement which I don't know about) Of course, additinal piping would be required.

    The unit uses your car's tank and fills slow.Upon disconnect, It recaptures the gas in the line and doesn't have to vent it every time you disconnect like fast fill staions.. It seems to have no compression heating, (what you get with a fast fill) so it fills well.

    Hose.20 feet? No. 15? very likely. Being foward thinking folks, We always back our vehicles in, and my Phill is in the left side of my garage. If some other person nosed in, I can fill by reaching the hose over the back window and trunk. The noise level of the Phill is surprisingly quiet. I have a 2003 GX.

    Service.
    Folks have commented about the fuel filter issues. I had the low pressure filter ($153) cut open after about 15,000 miles. A lot of folks seem not to replace them every service, in CA any way. (Our NG in CA is very clean) It was so clean I couldn't find any contaminants. I haven't replaced the high pressure filter yet,
    but haven't reached 30,000 miles either.

    Safety.
    I found the the 4 dr Civic with SIABs was listed as one of insure.com
    s 10 safest cars of 2002. I also have seen pictures of a rear end collision of a GX by a gas tanker truck. The tank didn't leak and definitely provided substantial safety over a conventional gas car.

    Hope this helps...
  • moore101moore101 Member Posts: 39
    Used Civic GX: I just got mine from the recycler.com but keep an eye out on ebay and autotrader.com.

    The tank: I just saw an add at the LAX CNG station. A company called clean-tech in Los Angeles can add a 5 gge tank for $1500 installed.

    http://www.clean-tech.com
  • moore101moore101 Member Posts: 39
    Thanks CAJeff for the detailed information!

    On the Phill unit it sounds like the rebates are still being ironed out. What if they never materialize? Would you still have got the unit?

    How did you "help" on the install? Did it save you much?

    Have you had it long enough to figure out approx how much it cost's per "gallon" to fill up at home with Phill?

    Sorry for all the questions.
  • cheapdudecheapdude Member Posts: 2
    moore101,

    If you don't mind, can you tell me how much you paid for your used civic and the year.
    I just bought a 2001 for just under 13k. Was that a good deal? They are so hard to find.

    BTW, I called cleantech and they quoted a 3 GGE tank for $900 installed
  • cajeffcajeff Member Posts: 4
    I did some investigation on this, as I have a 2003 GX.
    There is a lot of mis information out there.
    The high pressure filter cartridge has an MSRP of $47.02 part number 16905-SIG-003 and has a 36,000 mile reccomended replacement schedule. The entire assembly which DOES NOT need to be replaced has an MSRP of $822. This evidently is where this big $$ misquoted item comes from. I understand this is for 2001's and newer.
    The low pressure element that has a 10,000 mile reccomended replacement NOW has an MSRP of $115, and this is a newer price. Expect that to come down, too.
    It seems that the 10,000 mile service interval on this filter is due to the fact that some CNG facillities in the NorthEast end up adding oil to their NG due to compressor lubrication, or specifically for it.. How this is done, I don't know, but it really isn't a problem most everywhere.. I guess some injectors got clogged when someone never changed their filters, so now it's in the service schedule.
    I plan on changing or I should say EXCHANGING my low pressure filter between two filters, and inspecting them. I would hope that this service interval becomes an INSPECT for oil but that's what I'm going to do. Worst case would be clogged injectors, and If my filter is clean, that's not going to happen. You may find a little clear thick fluid, mercaptain, the odorant in your filter, but it evaporates. Oil would be obvious. I totally cut my first one apart. I changed it at 15,000 miles, as I had to have the filter ordered.
    If it's any consolation, the oil filter only needs to be changed every 20,000 miles!
    I get mine changed every 7,500 miles, as I get free oil and filter changes for the life of my car. (A deal that my dealer no longer offers for obviou$ reasons!)
    Hope this helps.
    ps, the PHILL uses high tech ceramics in it's compressor and thus has no oil.
    JC
  • fe2cruzfe2cruz Member Posts: 1
    Honda currently uses 1.7l SOHC for thier civc GX CNG car.
    I want CNG, but with more horsepower and a 6 speed tranny.
    The K20 engine seems perfect for this, however is Natural Gas
    compatible with DOHC VTEC? Or will all the power gains be lost?
    Are there parts available to convert the K20 engine to propane?
    I know I will lose some power, but with mods it seems
    I can still be over 200 hp. It seems i may lose lots more
    torque though.
  • nostrom0nostrom0 Member Posts: 44
    Thanks for the clarification. Overall it seems the CNG has an inexpensive service schedule, considering the miles between oil changes and everything else.
  • moore101moore101 Member Posts: 39
    Cheapdude,
    Sure I paid $7750 for a 99 GX with 69k. The car is in ok condition, 1 large dent in the rear drivers side door and it also had a oil leak at the rear main seal (between engine and transmission). Luckily, the car is a certified preowned honda and has a powertrain warranty till 100k so the leak is getting fixed free. I don't think the prior owner knew about the warranty.

    $900 isn't bad. Did they say the tank fills up the rest of the trunk?
  • moore101moore101 Member Posts: 39
    I just got the owners manual and GX shop manual supliments. It appears that the 98-00 GX's only have one fuel filter near the tank on the underside of the car.

    If anyone needs info from the shop manual let me know and I will post it.
  • cheapdudecheapdude Member Posts: 2
    He said the trunk is pretty much gone after adding the 2nd tank. He said, "but you can still fit in a pack of cigarettes"
  • moore101moore101 Member Posts: 39
    hah nice. Are the cig's to perform a leak test ;-)
  • ravenflightravenflight Member Posts: 5
    I am very interested in purchasing a GX, especially since there is a refueling station a couple blocks from my work. I have a few concerns though. Most of the stations listed in the San Fernando Valley seem to require a SoCalGas Card to purchase gas even though they are listed as "Public Access". I tried calling the 800 number to the Southern California Gas Co and the rep I spoke to didn't even know that they had CNG refueling stations- much less how to get one of these payment cards. Does anyone have any experience using these stations and how they managed to get one of these payment cards? Also what price per "gallon" could I expect in the Glendale area? Shouldn't the Gas Company be promoting this technology- or at least training their employees that it exists?

    Will the 2006 models have any significant upgrades? I was very diasappointed looking over the GX brochure in that Honda charges almost a thousand dollars more for the GX versus the Hybrid, but they don't provide any of the extras that are standard on the Hybrid- ie Leather trimmed seats, Electronic Brake Distribution, 4 speakers instead of 2, Hybrid exclusive color, blue lit instrument panel... Seems odd that they would charge more for the GX over the Hybrid- which has a much more complex drivetrain and very expensive batteries and motors, and then not even offer the same features. Will Honda get serious with the GX in 2006 by either reducing the price or giving it exclusive features like their other premium priced Hybrid?
  • nostrom0nostrom0 Member Posts: 44
    The City of Glendale has a fuel station available to the public. It does require a SoCalGas Card. You can apply for one with Bill Torres, (213) 244-5215. The prices per GGE vary quite a bit depending on the station. The most expensive and most consumer-friendly seem to be the Clean Energy stations. Last time I philled up over at LAX it cost $2.14 per GGE. Down in Long Beach at a SoCalGas station it was $1.59. I haven't used the station over in Glendale so I don't know what the price is over there.

    I don't know what the plans for the next model year are, but I think the GX is a better vehicle than the HX. Natural gas is cheaper than gasoline, especially when it's from your home gas line. I also think home refueling is such a huge convenience they should make a bigger point about it when marketing the GX. The last time I bought gas at Costco I waited in line for 20 minutes. Also, the emissions from the GX are lower than from the HX, and it's a less complicated vehicle. I would have liked leather seats too, but I'm very happy about the political statement I'm making by not buying gasoline anymore.
  • ravenflightravenflight Member Posts: 5
    I completely agree with you that the GX is better than gasoline powered hybrids. I just wish Honda felt the same way. It seems like all the car companies are pushing costly hybrid technology when natural gas is far cleaner, cheaper, simpler, and has the added benefit of being domestically produced and not contributing to US reliance on middle east oil.

    Hybrids seem to add a lot of complexity (read- more things to break down) for a minimal 23% increase in economy. Couldn't they achieve 47 mpg just by improving the engine? Am I mistaken in thinking there were cars getting 50 mpg back in the 80's? Plus when gas prices go up to 4.00 a gallon (and higher) you're still stuck using gasoline. Until America stops being infatuated with SUV's and China stops becoming industrialized I don't see gasoline getting cheaper. So what's the automakers solution- Hybrid SUV's! So now you can get the same 29 mpg from your Ford SUV as you can from your full size Crown Victoria! Pure stupidity. Does anybody honestly believe these 2000.00 battery packs will last for 7+ years? Much less retain even 50% of their capacity. I have yet to own a battery (lead acid, ni-cad, nickel metal hydide, lithium ion) that lasted more than 3 years.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I am in complete agreement with all you posted. It is amazing that more car companies don't sell CNG vehicles. Many of the taxi's in San Diego are CNG. Is the Civic GX the only factory produced CNG car available to the general public?
    I was going to convert my 1993 Chevy truck and the company went out of business a few years back. I like the duel fuel idea even better. For those times you may not be close to a station or your home fueling station. Has anyone with a PHILL installed calculated the cost difference by refueling at home?
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