Porsche 911

newbe3 · October 2006

well i will have to do some searching thanks ..great thanks the dealers i have been to dont let you drive new. only pre-owned thats why i have some problems with the salespeople.but they also lack knowledge on the car and options.good old O.C . so i will stay away from the exhaust. was just wondering how it operated the mechanics of it..sounds like the chrono is a must. thought it only pertained to the gauge on top of dash,but it does more??

spiritinthesky · October 2006

I'm not surprised the dealers do not allow test drives of new 911's. Break in is very important and you are not supposed to exceed 4,200 rpm for the first 1,000 +/- miles. You would be much better off driving a fully broken in pre-owned 997S to get a feel for the car.

By the way, although Porsche does not credit the sport exhaust or sport chrono with any increase in horsepower or torque, I have heard from several PCA members who have had their cars dyno'd and found the combination adds 10-12+ wheel horsepower on the 3.8 liter "S" compared to cars without that combination. For whatever reason, not as much on the 3.6 liter base 911.

I just got word that my Turbo will be delivered in 8-10 days.

newbe3 · October 2006

wow you have a turbo on order how exciting so shall i ask how much out the door ?

ssaayy10 · October 2006

I'm not an avid Porsche lover (getting there) I grew up in Michigan where my Dad worked for Daimler/Chrysler for 41 years and needless to say I've always owned American made cars and have had nothing against them. I've come here for some advise, my best friend wants to buy 2007 911. I'm trying and succeeding to an extent to get him to look at some used ones, 2005 in particular. Seems to be a savings of around 20,000 with the 2005 and they have more options, which he really doesn't care about too much. He doesn't drive very much maybe about 4100 miles a year it that. (I do all the driving) I've found him a 2005 exactly the way he wants it like I said with more options then he wants and it only has 6,000 miles on it for 70,000, which I think is much better then spending 90,000 (not including tax). He plans on keeping the car for 10 years and I know this wont go over to well but he doesn't drive to fast at all. (More of a prestige thing than anything) It's Artic Silver, trip, full leather and pretty much everything else. Do you think that is a good deal and my last question is the Warranty. I'm sure the Warranty will pass to the second owner but would he be able to buy an Extended Warranty if he wanted?

blckislandguy · October 2006

Newbe3, at the risk of offending you, let me say that maybe you should put your wallet back in your pocket for 6 months or so. I think that one of the pleasures of Porsche is the number of combinations/permutations that exist and discovering the ones you want. IMHO you don't want to rush into this because, a) its fun to pore over the options, b)there is a lot of money on the table, c) choosing the wrong set of options could hurt the ownership experience and d) some Saturday you might just stumble across a dealer-principal's loaded, used 997 with more options than you thought you could ever afford for less money.

Buy every $13 Porsche magazine at Borders you can get your hands on, especially "911, Nothing Else Matters". Haunt the dealerships, ask the same question to different people. Questions like what is the difference between "full leather" and "special leather", how bad is the standard sound system vs. popping $1200 for Bose?, will I get a like-for-like loaner (e.g, Porsche of Nashau) or do they pick up the car (Inskip Porsche), which wheels are easiest to clean (let me know), at what tire/rim size will I be into hydroplaning?, why can't I get manual, sports adaptive seats?, and, with apologies to Habitat1, how often will I really use the sports chrono? Finally, keep in mind that a dollar saved is $1.30 you didn't have to go out and make.

YMMV

habitat1 · October 2006

"and, with apologies to Habitat1, how often will I really use the sports chrono? Finally, keep in mind that a dollar saved is $1.30 you didn't have to go out and make."

With apologies to blckislandguy, the anwswer is "every day" on the sports-chrono, and a dollar saved is $1.75 earned in my neck of the woods.

Eveything else is right on.

blckislandguy · October 2006

Habitat1, I forget you're in "America". Out here on Block Island our marginal tax rates are a little different because of the underground (underwater?) economy.

Regarding the Sports Chono, indulge me, how often would the average guy use his SC? That is use it as in day to day, non track driving and not just as an expensive Timex? While I have heard of a commuter that times his Providence to Boston commute everyday with his SC, my Luminox Navy Seal watch (at $150, the best watch ever made, incidentally) would do the same job for $750 less..

habitat1 · October 2006

"Regarding the Sports Chono, indulge me, how often would the average guy use his SC?"

Perhaps you are unaware or forgetting that the Sports Chrono Package isn't just a dash mounted chronograph but also - and much more useful - an optional "sports" button which significantly increases throttle response and somewhat increases braking response.

I agree with you, $920 for a dash mounted stopwatch is a bit much. I have used the stopwatch function perhaps 15 times in the past year, at least half of which were to time the drive to various houses we looked at in our never ending search for a new home. It's not something that my wristwatch couldn't do, so long as I didn't forget to look at it when we got to our destination.

But if you haven't driven a 911 with sport chrono, and preferably one that's broken in, with the button activated, you should give it a try. I know Porsche does not officially indicate any increase in horsepower, but the increased throttle response makes it definitely feel quicker. When you first activate it, it also sets the PASM on firm as well, but that can be individually deactivated to the normal suspension setting. Also, in my car, activating the sport button also turns on the sport exhaust. That cannot be operated independently and at least one dealer believes the sport exhaust adds to the sensation of quickness.

I would say that I use the "sport" button for increased throttle response about once every 2-3 times I drive the car. But, by the same measure, I probably only use the sport/firm setting on the PASM once every 6-8 times I drive the car.

xraes · October 2006

Trying to decide whether to pull the trigger on an '04 turbo, low miles, CPO for about 98K or order a new targa, which with options I want, will probably cost around 120k. I like individuality in cars; the turbo has meridian silver paint with cinnamon full leather, light wood, really clean look. I'm interested in the new "gold" color offered on the targa. Has anyone seen it(I've seen the porsche website clip) or have any info. on any other new interior/exterior color options?
Thanks

tomtomtom · October 2006

The "Gold" color is called Nordic Gold and it's a $5000 paint to sample option. So basically, it's not a "new" color. Personally, I would order a new car with the color and options I want as long as it's within my budget.

habitat1 · October 2006

Interesting, second person to mention a $120k to $125k targa.

Far be it from me to suggest what is prudent or not in a highly discretionary sports car purchase. But $120k+ does seem like an enormous amount of money to "individualize" a 911 targa. I was in the dealership last week for my 1 year oil change and a buyer was taking delivery of a brand new 2007 Turbo. Didn't get to see the full options list but noticed the bottom line on the sticker was $133k+/-.

P.S. One thing that appears clear for my looking at used cars on my dealer's lot, all of those "individualized" color option dollars aren't worth nickels on resale. In some cases, they are negatives. So I would plan on keeping the car for a long time or taking a big write-off at resale.

bsumner · October 2006

1. Habitat1 is right on the $$. Context is very important. Far be it from me to tell anyone else what to do with their $$, but $125K for a non-trubo 911 wouldn't get it done for me . . . it feels like the gives (the $$) don't quite equal the gets (a straight 911) . . . at that zip code I'd either go for a turbo or spend a little more for a V-12 animal, like a DB9 (recognizing that it's a different kind of car).

2. On the topic of Targas, what have people heard about stability, etc? Recently I've read some pieces that suggest that the targa historically has had performance/stability issues due to airflow, change in body weighting due to the glass top, etc.

Regards.

-BS

blckislandguy · October 2006

Habitat1, while I knew that SC was more than a stop watch, I've never used the SC while driving a 911. I will though and post what I think.

Now, with regard to sport exhaust, in the interest of saving $2500 (?) post-tax money, if a buyer really wants one, why not just crawl beneath the car with a portable drill and punch some holes in the present muffler? Didn't JC Whitney have a similar exhaust cut out thing for $39 back in the days of the flat head Ford? These Porsche options can get nutty.

habitat1 · October 2006

"Now, with regard to sport exhaust, in the interest of saving $2500 (?) post-tax money, if a buyer really wants one, why not just crawl beneath the car with a portable drill and punch some holes in the present muffler?"

I'm not an expert on sport exhausts. But I think they go slightly beyond poking holes in the factory one. According to a friend who formerly had a 2001 Turbo, the $3,500 aftermarket performance exhaust he had was "not as good" as the $2,400 Porsche factory sport exhaust that came on his C2S. Apparantly, this is an option that is cheaper from the factory (due I suppose to the fact that you aren't first detaching and throwing out the material and labor of the factory standard exhaust).

Of course if you want to really gripe about option costs, try the X51 Power Package that runs around $16,900. That buys you 26 more horsepower, using, amoung several other other items, the same sport exhaust system that's on my car. According to my friend, he thinks at least 1/3 to 1/2 of the power increase is due to the sport exhaust alone, based upon before and after dynos of his old turbo.

All that said, I don't recall recommending to anyone that they lighten their wallet by $2,400 for the sport exhaust. I only have it because of the discount I got on my in-stock car.

dweiser · October 2006

If you don't mind telling us habitat1, what did your first year oil& filter change run you? I ask not to be nosey but because I have one coming up next month.
Thanks,
Don

habitat1 · October 2006

dweiser,

$239.16. They charged me 1 hour of labor at $115 and the parts ran $26.67 for the filter and $79.40 for 10 quarts of Mobil 1. Taxes and environmental fees are the rest.

I had called up my local dealership after getting a $250 quote from a Pittsburgh dealer that would have given me a loaner car while I was up there a couple of weeks ago. However, the Pittsburgh quote included 1.5 hours of labor at $85 and included a more thorough 1-year inspection of the car, including removing the wheels, measuring brake pad wear, checking all hoses, etc and giving you a written report. I didn't realize until I picked the car up that the local dealer simply visually inspected the brakes and tires with them still mounted. So I didn't get quite the full 1-year inspection I would have liked. But at least I have the peace of mind that everything "looks OK" and the oil and filter are new.

tomtomtom · October 2006

Steven Creek Porsche in N. Cal had an oil change promotion for $199 just over a month ago.

kyfdx · October 2006

I remember taking in my '84 911 Targa.. not too long after I bought it in 1990.. $83 for an oil change.. :surprise: I just about died... I was getting my Honda changed at Jiffy Lube for $12.95, around the same time..

Times sure have changed...

newbe3 · October 2006

good advice although i like new over used ..i will pick some minds seems to be happening right here on this format and i thank everyone involved

dweiser · October 2006

Took delivery of my P-car on 11/12/05.
Called the closest dealer today and made an appt. for oil & filter change (and inspection) on 11/01. Was quoted $198 for oil & filter change. A few weeks ago they sent me some coupons, one of which was for 10% off an oil change so I'll save $19.80 looks like.

newbe3 · October 2006

do you know how the exhaust actually works the mechanics of it..what does pushing the button actually move etc.

habitat1 · October 2006

do you know how the exhaust actually works the mechanics of it..what does pushing the button actually move etc.

Honestly, no I don't. The sport exhaust on the "S" model has asymetrically sized quad tailpipes and I've been told that the airflow through the larger one on each side is increased via a baffle which opens up. But I have never seen a schematic diagram or detailed technical explanation of what happens. It definitely has a raspier and louder exhaust note.

newbe3 · October 2006

sounds good i will have to ask dealer

newbe3 · October 2006

So its a personal choice on the SC and exhaust it seems but i like the comments. So with both are we faster? seems we need someone who has both for a comment.Also shall i order my s car with options about 4 months out or shop dealers on line around my state or out of state taxes are high in calif. but if i buy out of state i know some how they will ding me for money .somehow any one know how that works?

bmuir · October 2006

Since the car will be out of state in order to get tags you must register it with CA and of course pay the sales tax. That how it works in most states. In Florida we even have to show up with vehicle and have an onsite appraiser(damage,too)

look at it.

tomtomtom · October 2006

you pay sales tax base on your residence. if you have a house in Oregon, you better change your driver license to that address :-)

bsumner · October 2006

Actually, you typically pay sales tax based on registration, which can be different from residence. For example, if:

1. You are a resident of CA;
2. You have a vacation home in WA;
3. You buy and register a car in WA (one that you keep at your vacation home); and
4. Accordingly, you would pay sales tax in WA, not CA.

I just did a similar thing moving one of my old cars from the east coast to the west coast. I didn't need a driver's license (or residence) in the other state to register a car there . . . .

-BS

tomtomtom · October 2006

I live in California and I do own a house (rented out) in Oregon. I was going to buy my 997 using that address. However, when I talked to my insurance agent, they said I need to have a Oregon driver license in order to get the Oregon registed car insured.

blckislandguy · October 2006

The criterion for insurance (forget registration, its sales tax and insurance that everyone wants to save on) in New England seems to be "principal place of garaging". So, if you live in Boston and yet have a summer home in NH, you still need to pay the MA sales tax (NH has none), register and then insure it in MA because that is where the car is principally garaged. If you play games (i.e., register and insure in NH) and have an accident OR have a NH neighbor complain about the MD up from Boston on summer weekends with Live Free or Die NH plates on his Porsche, you're up the creek.

Gentlemen, this is not worth the risk.

esf · October 2006

I'm new to the 911 forum, and I've never owned a Porsche before. Just admired them from afar.

I currently own an '05 S4 Cabriolet, and I go crazy over cars sometimes, and right now, I'm already thinking my next car (in two to three years!) will be a 911 Carrera cabrio, or possibly a Targa 4. Any experience with either of those? I know the Targa just came out, but I'm sure someone here has a Carrera. Is the performance difference between the C2 and the C2S monumental enough to fork over the extra $12,000? I have a convertible now and love it, so should I look at the Targa, also? What options does Porsche overcharge for (there are dozens of them, I know), and what should I avoid if I buy one?

Thanks!

'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG  '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet  '03.5 Lexus RX330 (soon to be replaced)

habitat1 · October 2006

Welcome to the forum.

"Is the performance difference between the C2 and the C2S monumental enough to fork over the extra $12,000?"

First, the MSRP difference is $10,200, not $12,000. Second, that price gives you a fair number of items with the S model that are optional on the base 911:

1. Porsche active suspension management (PASM) - $1,990. (toggle between normal and sport suspension)
2. 19" (vs. 18") Carerra S style wheels and tires - $1,550. (70% looks / 30% performance, unless you go to the track)
3. Bi-Xenon headlights - $1,090. (a near must have)
4. Sport steering wheel - $250. (nice)
5. Brake calipers in Red - $1,690. (ouch!?)

Plus, a few other cosmetic differences with respect to the guages, aluminum door trim, etc.

If you add up the first four items, they total $4,900. Meaning that, if you were to want/order all of those items, the difference to get the "S" model with the 3.8 liter engine would be an additional $5,300. The difference would only be $3,610 if you went all the way and ordered the $1,690 red brake calipers, but that's a little overboard if you ask me.

I would not describe the performance difference between any non-turbo 911 models as "monumental". But it is definitely noticable. I've been very satisfied with my well equiped (but well discounted) C2S Cabriolet. But so has one of my distant neighbors with his $15k less, lightly optioned C2 Coupe.

You are doing the right thing in starting your research early. Fortunately, now that the 997 model has been out for nearly 2 years, you should be able to find a decent selection of pre-owned ones to test drive. As everyone here knows, I'm a big fan of the $920 sport chrono option which, when the sport part is activated, results in quicker throttle response and more sensitive braking. But I am sure the group would love to hear from someone other than me what they think of it. So please report back.

redsoxgirl · October 2006

I picked up my 2007 C2S Coupe a week ago and already have 550 miles on it, courtesy of a weekend trip with my brother to Bar Harbor. I'll report back after I finish the break in period.

However, if you are considering the a cabriolet vs. targa, you should be aware that, at least as far as I know, the targa will only come in the AWD "4" version.

Before ordering, I considered and test drove pre-owned versions of the C2, C2S, C4, C4S coupes and the C2S and C4S cab. What my test drives told me - and my brother (former Porsche racing team engineer) agrees - is that the extra weight and drive train loss of the "4" completely offsets the additional power of the "S". In other words, forget Porsche's conservative published performance ratings that show the "2" and the "4" neck and neck. The C2S is noticably quicker off the line than the C4S. As a matter of fact, the C2 (non S) is just as quick as the C4S. If you drove a C2S Cabriolet back to back with a Targa 4S, I would expect the former to feel noticably quicker.

Obviously, the "4" provides some advantage over the "2" in inclement weather and snow. But even here in Boston, I did not want to give up the lighter weight, feel and performance of the "2" for the AWD capability of the "4". As far as dry pavement, the new 997 has to be pushed to extreme limits for the "4" to kick in a transfer of more power to the front wheels. I've taken two Porsche performance driving schools and I was unable to do that on the roads I did my test drives on. The "2" was very buttoned down and comfortable in everything I threw at it.

Also, if you go for the base model, I recommend checking the PASM option box. It is one of the most significant improvements in going from the 996 to 997.

tagman · October 2006

This past summer I made some inquries here about Tiptronic and I never followed through with any purchase. Now that the Targa is upon us, I have a deposit in place on an '07 Targa 4S, pretty well-loaded. Here's the catch . . . it has the Tiptronic S.

I've always been a manual shifter with my sports cars, but I've had some conversations in these last days that are incredibly supportive of the Porsche Tiptronic. The buttons are on the steering wheel itself, I am told, and the shift is almost instantaneous while hands are still on the wheel.

I am also told that the "connection" to a car that I am used to with the conventional manual is not lost with this type of racing shifter, and that in some ways, there is even more of a connection (when using it in manual mode, of course).

I've also been told that when using the car as a daily driver, the Tiptronic offers the driver a bit of a break from constant shifting when stuck in traffic. I live in California, so traffic can be a consideration at times.

Can I get a reality check from you folks here?

I typically post on the HELM forum, but this question deserves to be right here where you guys know these cars best.

I need feedback about this Tiptronic S. Pros and Cons.

The dealer has told me I am under no obligation, if I want a manual transmission, all I have to do is take the next one, instead of this one. So this is my chance to get my facts together.

Thanks,

TagMan

nyccarguy · October 2006

Tagman

From your posting above it seems that you're actually talking yourself into the Tiptronic!

Stop right there!

"I've always been a manual shifter with my sports cars" Go with your gut and listen to yourself! Stick with a stick :P

You've also heard the expression "good things come to those who wait." Wait for a stick and it will be a good thing I Promise!

While I'm sure Porsche's Tiptronic is decent as far as Automatics go, it is an expensive option with a power robbing torque converter. Drive a manual transmissioned 911 and the slushbox back to back to see which one suits you best.

blckislandguy · October 2006

Redsox girl, nice post and analysis. If you use your C2S as your daily driver in Boston you will be all set this winter. A generation ago, before there was AWD, heated seats, winter tires, etc., the VW bug was thought to be an unstoppable winter car. Now if you live outside Rt 495 where it can blow and drift......

Did you get a Sports Odometer? (joke) I mean Boston to Bar Harbor and back should be more than 550 miles.

redsoxgirl · October 2006

"Did you get a Sports Odometer? (joke) I mean Boston to Bar Harbor and back should be more than 550 miles."

Very perceptive! I meant to say we went to Boothbay Harbor, where some frinds have a place. We did head up to Bar Harbor on Saturday, but not in my car, as there were 6 of us.

Tagman:

On the Tiptronic, it's getting favorable press lately because it's faster than the manual transmission - on the Turbo. That is NOT the same tiptronic that is on the standard 911. The non-Turbo tiptronic is Ok with upshifts, not so good with downshifts. Do not confuse the two.

If you enjoy a 6-speed, I could not see spending $3,400 on a Tiptronic that will make your experience less involved. The clutch in the 997 is very easy to modulate and, unless you are stuck in bumper to bumper traffic 3 hours a day, should pose no problem. If you are stuck in that kind of traffic, maybe you should get a Prius, not a 911.

Within 2 years, the tiptronic will likely be replaced on all or most models with the DSG. That, according to my brother, will be the transmission to have if you don't want a manual.

tagman · October 2006

If you enjoy a 6-speed, I could not see spending $3,400 on a Tiptronic that will make your experience less involved.

Yeah, for me, that's what it's about. I like to really connect to a car when I'm driving.

My previous Porsches and other sports cars were ALL sticks, without exception.

Sounds like the Tiptronic would be a big mistake I would regret, and I surely wouldn't want that to happen.

Thanks for the feedback.

TagMan

tomtomtom · October 2006

you really should test drive both cars on your regular route.

spechtbach · October 2006

Problems with Tiptronic:
Much less fun
More to go wrong & expensive to repair or replace
Difficult to sell

tagman · October 2006

Thanks for a number of balanced posts regarding the Tiptronic. I almost had myself convinced to just take it, since the first Targa is to have one, but a little patience, and a good side-by-side comparison would be better.

Frankly, I probably don't even need the comparison, since I've ALWAYS had the stick in the past, I think it is realistic to just get the 6-speed manual.

It might also be better to wait just a little while for the first few cars to sell, because the initial demand might be too high for a Targa . . . but I'm not sure.

TagMan

blckislandguy · October 2006

Red Sox girl. The next time you plann to go to ME in the late fall, let us know. I can't think of two more desolate places than BBH and BH in October. When the tourists leave, they shrivel up. Now, Camden, Rockland, Portland, Wiscasett, etc. are places to go almost year round.

Re: Tiptronic vs. Stick. IMHO, speed comes last. The differences are tiny. Think rather about the degree of involvement you want, ease of driving, and then resale. Do I miss a stick in my Cayenne? No. Its a reliable beater I drive to work in for 8 minutes while inhaling coffee, tuning in Imus, and making cell phone calls. A 997 on weekends would be a different kettle of fish.

tagman · October 2006

Hey, blckislandguy . . . thanks. It's always good to run into you on these forums.

TagMan

amhjms · October 2006

I wrote a post a few weeks back regarding whether a GT3 could be driven daily. Feedback I received was no, better to use one only as an occasional ride.

I was driving my daughter to a friends yesterday (in my 2000 Boxster) and passed by the dealer a ways off the A2 highway Southwest of Amsterdam (we're living here for three years) where I saw a bright orange Porsche I immediately recognized as a GT3RS. I dropped off my daughter and rushed back to the dealer...then was rewarded with being able to look not only at the orange one but then another GT3RS in contrasting black (with orange trim) and yet a third GT3 (dare I say the "base" version?) in solid black. All three were stunning, absolutely stunning. They simply look like race cars, especially with the Euro-version roll bars in them. I recall the price was about 170 k euros, including taxes, about $216,000 (I've learned cars here are about double of what they are in the US, one of the reasons I'm highly motivated to buy something really nice when I get back as they'll be 50% off!). I spoke long enough with someone at the dealer to learn both GT3RSs were already sold. I didn't sit in any of them, I didn't even ask.

I've priced out a C2S and C4S with the options I'd want and compared to the GT3 I'd want. They stacked up about $94 k, $100 k and $112 k. In my opinon a difference that makes me think I should just get what I want and plan on buying my other dream car (this will make you laugh), a Jeep Wrangler, to drive my ~12 mile each way commute back in Oregon.

Anyway, curious if anyone has driven (or owns) a 997 GT3 and can either wet my appetite by telling my how incredible it is, or reinforce that I'd really be so happy with a "normal" S car, I wouldn't likely give it a second thought. I do know any 911 is a big jump from my Boxster but I've worked pretty hard for the first bit of my life and consider my purchase of a 911 a reward to myself that I really want to get right...I don't want to regret anything about it. To me a GT3 seems so unique that I have a hard time believing anything less just won't seem as special. Note that I have no interest in a Turbo and the GT3RS is too boy-racer for me. so I'd want the "base" GT3. Someone recommended I drive a 996 GT3 while I'll plan to do before buying. I may consider one of these when I get back, but since a GT3 seems to hold its value very well, these are only a ~$20 k - $30 k savings over a new one, therefore I figure I might as well buy new.

Best to all.

redsoxgirl · October 2006

My brother is a huge fan of the 997 GT3, having had the opportunity to drive one at the Porsche track in Germany back in early September. I do not think they have yet made it to the US - at least not to my dealer.

I drove a 996 GT3 at one of the performance driving schools in 2004 and also loved it. On a track. It would not be a car I would want to run over city streets. And, as far as I know, the 997 GT3 will NOT have the PASM adjustable suspension that the C2S or Turbo have. The GT3 goes out of it's way to save weight and the PASM is considered unneccessary in a track car.

If you really want a weekend car that you can take to the track, the GT3 is hard to beat. RWD, lightest weight 911, 8,000+ rpm redline, etc. But, not to sound condescending, would you be buying a GT3 because you really want to become an accomplished amateur track driver or simply because you want the unique look? My brother would argue that anyone considering a GT3 should budget at least $15k+ for Porsche (or Skip Barber) driving schools through the advanced level, and have the time to go to a track and really use and enjoy the car's capabilities. A GT3 that is used only for casual weekend winery tours is viewed by serious Porsche enthusiasts as negative statement on the owner (i.e. "poseur") and a waste of a great car. Even Jay Leno knows how to drive his Carerra GT.

Also, I'm not sure why you would consider the C2S, C4S and GT3, but not the Turbo. If you do like lighter weight and handling of RWD, knock out the heavier, more expensive and slower AWD C4S. The C2S is the closest comparison to the GT3 and, with the PASM set on "sport" gives you a very nice track experience, although much more civilized than the GT3.

Good luck.

amerikanisch · October 2006

b> Can anyone help?
We have an appointment to order a new Porsche 911 turbo on Monday and the list of options is driving my wife bonkers. I think we are going to order Silver exterior (2 choices- the GT silver is an extra $2300) but cannot decide between solid black or grey/black interior. Also the carbon fiber and aluminum interior touches may be more sporty but wood accents always made a sports car look more luxurious to us. Still, the new matt finish wood is not the glossy burlwood that makes the Mercedes SL 600 look so rich.
The sport chronometer and tiptronic automatic are no brainers but I doubt that the upgraded PCCB brakes will hold their value unless I sell to a race car driver. If the expensive brakes lasted 5 X longer than the stock brakes, they might be worth it. We plan to drive the wheels off the car and keep it ten years, but you never know.
Basically we are looking to limit the options and get a lot of "bang for the buck" which is difficult because the options are so expensive. The stock interior doesn't look bad, but I was thinking about perhaps a solid black interior and going with some silver exterior color accents, such as the air vents and perhaps a wood streering wheel (but which wood? There are 2.) and a wood accept on the handbreak/ shifter knob and dash. I think the silver color with the black contrast is striking and that is why I am thinking solid black interior rather than two tone. Black interior, interior silver accents matching the exterior (just a few) and the wooden touches on the steering wheel / dash and brake handle/ shifter knob. A BIG CONSIDERATION will be possible resale value so we do not want to "ruin" the car. I am in my fiftes and I imagine a buyer of such an expensive car might be middle age and have similar tastes (wood vs carbon fiber) The silver accents will look much like the aluninum look and will be cheaper so we are covered there. Any advice from an "expert"?>

amhjms · October 2006

Redsoxgirl,

Thanks for the insights and reply. I've read several of your posts and have imagined (nothing creepy, just curious) you must be quite an interesting lady (and person in general) between your knowledge/ love of cars and obvious breadth of live experiences. This is meant as a sincere compliment and hopefully reads like one.

My interest in the GT3 is not as a pure track car, although over the years I'll certainly consider taking in there, especially as my son ages and it becomes an activity he and I can share. However, I'm doubtful that it would become anywhere near the primary use of the car. My interest in the car is definitely not, however, purely due to it's looks. I'd say the interest is a mix between my appreciation for the uniqueness of a GT3, a deep appreciation for the technology in the car and to a degree a belief that the car would actually hold its value better for both of these reasons (i.e. slightly more cost upfront would lead to less depreciation -- I'm an accountant so can't help but have this as part of the equation). This said, before I'll agree I should accept a lot of criticism for "waste(wasting) a great car" I'll propose that most Porsches are capable of significantly more than what 80% (or more) of their owners ever subject them too...I'm sure only a few ever make it to the track. Jay Leno and others have incredible financial resources...if I was in the same situation I'd likely go further down the road, but I think it seems a little extreme to me to suggest unless I can, I also shouldn't spend $10 k more on a particular model of car.

I'm guessing that Porsche is starting to see the market for folks like me as the US-model GT3 is now showing PASM and Sunroof as standard options and making others such as navigation available as options. Perhaps the GT3RS is now meant to fill the niche for primary track-use cars (i.e. what the old GT3 filled, although I think there was also a 996 GT3RS)? Of course, this could also mean some of the uniqueness of the GT3 will be lost, which indeed would be unfortunate.

Anyway, I don't mean to start a debate in the least, but providing a POV. I'm definitely a Porsche enthusiast (lifelong, started when my Dad had a 914 and we did "cookies" in the snow in the local high school parking lot) and am looking to fill my dream to have a 911 in the garage that I eventually pass along to one of my kids to fuel their love of the same (I actually bought the Boxster I drive now from my dad). I want to convince myself that the car I buy is the one I'll be most excited about for the longest period of time. I'm guessing people who bought 911 RS 2.7 cars in the early seventies and still have them are extremely thankful for their model selection. My Godfather actually had one which I rode in when I was 16. I still recall how special it felt, even when it was 14 years old and looked quite old-fashioned compared to the 911 slope-noses that were popular at the time he took me for a ride.

Lastly, your point on the C2S vs. C4S is a very good one. I'll have to beg the dealers to let me drive both to ensure I get the 2 vs. 4 WD decision right. I don't want the car to feel over-done so this is really important. My lack of interest in the Turbo simply surrounds my belief that these cars would likely have significant additional costs (purchase costs, insurance, depreciation and maintenance) for performance I don't really need and for a car I don't see as particularly unique. While the GT3 has additional performance (which I don't need either per my admission above), it seemingly comes at little incremental cost and is a model I find quite unique.

Anyway, thanks again for the insights and Jack (my son) and I will look for you when we finally make it to the track!

amhjms · October 2006

Amerikanisch,

I'm a 35 year-old and have a Speed Yellow and Black leather Boxster with silver accents, although the accents are limited...I think too much can look a bit boyracer. I.e. the rollbar hoops and door armrests are still black. I have been a Porsche enthusiast for a long time and have seen a ton over my years. Not sure if this makes me an expert or not. Your questions are very much opinion-oriented in my opinion. As you know very well, especially if you plan to drive the car for a long time, the most important opinion is, far and away, yours.

I've seen pictures of a two-tone interior black/ silver interior and think they look great. This said, I love my black seats as they have held up very well for seven years, I think silver would start to look a bit dirty and could show more stains, wear, etc.

In my opinion, while I generally like wood in luxury cars and most SUVs, I don't think it looks right in modern Porsches. I also have the opinon that carbon fiber is a bit of a trend material, as is silver to a degree, and could start to make the car look a bit dated at some point. At first carbon fiber was considered extremely high-tech, but now that it is used for design in many things including lower end cars, I see the trend could be ending in high end cars unless used for function (i.e. a lot of places in the Carrera GT).

My honest opinion is that you need to be really careful to choose one accent material (i.e. carbon, wood or silver) and stick to it as closely as possible. I would shy away from two accents in, even just a few, as the few might look out of place (as if the original pieces broke and were replaced) and the overall look could be a bit busy. Additionally, I'd guess a future buyer might be okay with a relatively plain vehicle but to find someone to buy a wood and silver accent car would require finding a person who liked both and liked them together.

Anyway, since you plan to keep the car a long time I highly recommend making the car suited well to your taste and where you think they'll be for the longest time. Porsches are relatively modular cars, so I can imagine you could change out pieces at a later point if you decided something didn't come out as you wanted. Perhaps this takes some pressure off? The nice thing about Porsche options being so expensive upfront is that changes down the road might even be cheaper (i.e. sports exhausts for example).

Anyway, I hope one persons opinion doesn't just add to the confusion.

Enjoy your Turbo!

amerikanisch · October 2006

amerikanisch · October 2006

Amhjms,

Thank you for taking the time to respond in such a thorough manner.
To clarify, the leather interior we are considering in our Turbo is all black or a black/grey two-tone. The silver would be done on accents such as the louvers on the vents and other subtle places. This would save money as the silver exterior color is similar to the aluminum look which is $2700 for the package while exterior silver color looks somewhat similar and is only $900 for the same places as the $2700 package. I think you are right about mixing and matching too many trim materials but the porsche manual suggested this- for entreprenarial reasons no doubt. I do not have to add any cosmetic features but if I can do something that markedly improves the look of the cockpit, I would consider it as long as the expense was mot too great. In my opinion, the carbon fiber as well as the aluminum look are rather cheap-looking. That is why I was considering wood- to give the Porsche more of a luxury appeal. I may not even ,like the new matt finish wood and I would have to actually see it before ordering.
Thanks again and any other opinion would be greatly appreciated and fully considered.

w210 · October 2006

I am in a similar situation, wanted the biggest bang for the money spent.

Went arctic silver with solid black interior. I find GT silver a little too pink for my taste. Regarding the interior, grey/black two tone is nice but I prefer black carpet over grey - easier to maintain, nicer contrast against the silver.

Went tiptronic and regular brakes. PCCB not worth it for me who does't track.

Stayed away from all cosmetic options.

The only exception was the aluminum look multi-function steering weel as regular leather multi-function steering wheel does not feel very good to my hands.

The wheel actually goes very well with the silver exterior.

Lots of pictures we had a meet earlier this month:

http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=997turbo&Number=281913&page=0&f- part=all

Porsche 911

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