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Porsche 911

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Comments

  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Two questions:

    (1) What's the "story" behind the car? Was it a dealer demo or privately owned? If the former, do as you wish, but I wouldn't buy a demo. If the latter, why is it for sale after 4 months? Many legitimate possibilities, but I'd just like to know before dropping $65k+.

    (2) Why isn't it being certified by the dealer? I don't know much about the program, maybe a nearly new car only gets the original warranty?

    Regarding the price, something doesn't add up. The MSRP of a 2007 equiped as you specified is $78,780, according to Edmunds. The 2006 should be $1,100 less - with a MSRP of $77,680 and an invoice of approximately $68,000. Were there other options you didn't list?

    In any event, I would hope that you could do a little better than invoice price on a 2006 that has been driven 2,000 miles. I paid 3% over invoice for my brand new 2005 in September 2005. If this car was traded in by a private owner, I doubt the dealer gave them more than invoice minus 10%. So invoice minus 5% would be what I would shoot for. Close to your offer of $65k. But we are talking a couple of thousand on a $65k+ purchase. If it's the car you really want, I wouldn't beat my head against the wall over $1-2k.
  • jakeman1jakeman1 Member Posts: 8
    Thanks for the info and advice. I forgot to grab the sheet he gave me with the listings, but the car also included self-dimming mirrors, floor mats and painted wheel caps. According to the dealer, the buyer is an MD and gambler who churns cars. He bought this car on 07/07. He traded the 911 and a Cayman S for a Boxster S and a 911 S. He has owned a GT3 and traded it in, too (too stiff). The invoice is, if I recall, around 67 or so.

    Chatting with the salesman and other dealers, you get the impression that they are comfortable to sit and wait all winter if they want to sell cars. It sounded like BS to me at first, but I spoke to other dealers who had 2005s and none of them are budging appreciably. One salesman said they don't mind holding a car all winter because demand is so high in spring that it doesn't matter.

    Thanks again!
  • jakeman1jakeman1 Member Posts: 8
    Oh I forgot-- certification... The dealer had just got the car in. They hadn't decided to do it yet. They might...it hasn't shown up on their website yet. Figure it's another $1600 for that...

    BTW, this dealer told me that Porsche does not permit them to "uncertify cars" or give two prices. In the meantime, two dealerships have done just that when I asked more info on two certified cars. Certification would be more relevant to me for an 05 with an in service date of 09/04, but for this car it's not a big deal.
  • jakeman1jakeman1 Member Posts: 8
    The final option-- TPMS!!
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Well, now your $77,880 MSRP on the 2006 reconciles with Edmunds - and the invoice appears to be $67,962.

    Here is the question YOU need to answer, as it has some subjectiveness in it: How much do I need to save to buy a 4 month old / 2,000 mile used 2006 C2 over a brand new 2007 C2 to make it worth it?

    It looks like the 2007 would carry an MSRP of $79,080 (TPMS appears to be standard). I suspect you would be able to get at least a $5k discount in my area. That means a brand new, comparably equiped 2007 911 C2 would run you $74k +/-. Saving $6.5k ($67.5k) for a lightly used 2006 isn't a bad deal, but getting it for $65k and saving $9,000 would be my minimal trigger point. On the other hand, I've never bought a used car, so I'm probably too "greedy". The 2005 (new) C2S Cab I bought last September saved me roughly $8,000 over what a new 2006 would have cost me, but I still had a brand new car that I got to break in.

    As for the dealer claiming to be willing to sit on the car all winter, I think that's half true, half B.S. The reason I got such a good deal on my 2005 last September was that the selling season for 911's was running out (especially Cabs) and having a new 2005 in the spring of 2006 would have been much tougher to sell. It's now November and the car you are considering already has an "in service" clock ticking. One thing is absolutely for sure. If they hold it for another 4 months and end up selling it as an 8 month old car in March, the buyer would have to be an idiot to pay $67.5k then. And the dealer would have carried the car for 4 more months, meaning your $65k offer would have been as good of a deal. I think you are in a good bargaining position. I'd be tempted to write them a chack for $65k and dare them to actually rip it up.
  • jakeman1jakeman1 Member Posts: 8
    Thanks, that's very good advice. Last night, while ruminating further, I looked to see if there were any 2007s in stock that had little to no options. I found one, so I'm checking to see if they will sell it at 5% over invoice. That's actually less than the 2006 and financing is better, too. It's nice to have Xenon etc., but they aren't crucial to me. So, at least there are some alternatives. I like the idea of going out to the dealer and testing the car and writing the check 9a bird in the hand).
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    If you are going for a low option car, I suggest listening to the standard stereo, before going for the $1,300 Bose upgrade. The Bose is not that impressive, IMO. And not necessary in a sports car. Also, the power seat package at $1,550 is not necessary if you are going to be the only driver. The big advantage of memory mirrors and seats is if you are going to have multiple drivers. Heated seats in a coupe are less valuable than in a Cab, as well.

    A distant neighbor of ours has a very low optioned 2005 C2 and he loves it. Only options were xenons and sport chrono. He also got a great "end of year" deal last year. Had been considering an M3, but for only about $9k more, got the 911. As much as I like some of my do-dads, I greatly respect his frugality.

    Good luck.
  • klboylanklboylan Member Posts: 2
    Just purchased a new '06 Carrera S Cab. Did the best job I could and ended up getting 10% off MSRP. Started at 6% told me really could only do 8/9 finally got 10%. '07 looked like 3-4% maybe 5% off cars on lot. This is outside of Philly. Hope this helps.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Congratulations, that's a very good deal. What exactly did you get (i.e. options)?
  • jakeman1jakeman1 Member Posts: 8
    Well, here's the latest: 7% off MSRP or 6.5% over invoice for a 911 from my local dealer. An Ohio dealer, recommended on this forum, agreed to 5% over invoice for a bone stock 911 (metallic paint, mats and heated seats). So, I called a NY dealer and they would only drop the price by $4K (9.6% over invoice). Then I called the NJ dealer where I had tested cars and is closest to my house. They first said 7% over invoice, but then dropped it to 6.5%. The 1.5% difference over 5% is about the cost of going to OH and back, and the dealer (like most) only provides loaners to their buyers. So looks like I'll put in the order tomorrow there. I'm sure I could find a dealer in the tri-state area to do 5%, but this dealer knows I'm closest to them. Also, in NYC it's almost banker bonus time...

    How's that?
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    6.5% over invoice on a new 2007 made to order is pretty good. I wouldn't travel the country to beat it by 1.5%.
  • jakeman1jakeman1 Member Posts: 8
    Your advice has been very helpful! This is a very useful forum!
  • amerikanischamerikanisch Member Posts: 20
    Is this for the new Turbo 911? The best deal I could find in California is $250 discount on MSRP on a 911 Turbo through Costco in Fremont, Ca. The airline ticket to Northern California would cancel out the discount.
  • klboylanklboylan Member Posts: 2
    XJT - Rear Ctr. Console Makassar
    M6A - Black Mats - Porsche lettering
    801 - Makassar Package
    680 - Bose High End Sound Package
    670 - Navigation for PCM
    C02 - U.S. Standard/Emissions
    446 - Wheel Caps with Colored Crest
    342 - Heated Front Seats
    P15 - Power Seat Package
    640 - Sport Chrono Package Plus
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  • jakeman1jakeman1 Member Posts: 8
    This was for a C2. Call half a dozen dealers from all over, that's what I did...and search their inventory online. I actually went to each dealer site from Maine to NC and then CA, IL, and OH. to see what was in inventory. Obviously, they'd rather sell you what is in stock first. As I was looking for stock C2s, there was almost nothing around except for black/black combos (I've already done black). I found a red one online that didn't even come with floor mats, but it was built for a customer. So, I was forced to have one built for me, which meant a 2007.

    My sense is that dealers think that all buyers have lots of cash at any income bracket--they want to push the cache concept to its furthest. I only went back to my local dealer after being really sure I had a good price from somewhere else, and was ok going there if necessary. Another thought: I test drove at this dealer 2 times and also put an offer in on a used car-- the salesman knew I was ready to buy. If they can really be convinced that you are really ready to buy, they take this a lot more seriously. Good luck!
  • woody1173woody1173 Member Posts: 5
    "A national newspaper is looking to interview Porsche and BMW owners who use their car for “everyday driving,” from going to the grocery store to commuting to and from work, instead of just using the car during the weekends for nice drives. Please send an e-mail to ctalatiedmunds.com no later than Monday, August 28, 2006 by 2:30 PM PT/5:30 PM ET containing your daytime contact information and what car you drive."

    Karen - can you tell me where/when this story ran? I am looking to get a 911, and it will be my only car which I will use for day-to-day commuting, etc. I'd like to see others' viewpoints. Thanks.
  • kyingkying Member Posts: 61
    I responded to this email in August, but no one contacted me afterward. At any rate, I am eager to read the story too.
  • dweiserdweiser Member Posts: 288
    Maybe we should ask if they contacted ANYONE from this Forum.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    Habitat1, your analyses for the board are really right on and I think everyone learns a lot. Thanks.

    To add just one comment to your analysis, I've noticed that some Porsche sales guys have a born to the manor way about them. This might be helpful in dealig with what they perceive to be wannabes or arrogant MDs (I realize that this last description may be redundant to some). But I'll bet that the dealer-principal who is paying monthly juice to floor plan the cars and on his loan for the new building that Porsche made him build to their spec, knows to the penny who much it is going to cost him to keep a 997 in inventory for another four months. Maybe an email to him might do the trick?
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    FYI to all, there is a 2006 C2 with Bose, heated but manual seats (!), and zenons in Arctic Silver with 5000 miles on ebay this morning. It has a current bid of 63K and a "Buy It Now" of 69.5K. I don't think that 997s are selling well now in our soft economy.
  • unsure3unsure3 Member Posts: 8
    Hello all! Great forum - tons of useful advice! And on that note, I'm hoping some of you will share your wisdom regarding my dilemna (a dilemna I'm enjoying, truth be told).

    Ever since I can remember I've wanted a new 911. The first car I bought myself was a 10 year old 928 S4, which I absolutely loved (had to sell it when I moved to the US). Owning that Porsche fuelled my desire to own a 911 even further, as did the servicing cost of the 928 (astronomical vs. a 911, but that's a different story...)

    Anyway, I visited a Porsche dealer today, and he convinced me to drive a Cayman S. What a car! It was absolutely thrilling to drive. He had me convinced that this was the way to go, until I got home and configured one online - $75K for the one I'd want. Considering a 997 C2S and C4S spec'd as I'd have them top out at $92K and $98K respectively (a difference in MSRP of about $17K to $22K), a Cayman S hardly seems worth it.... I didn't drive the C2S or C4S, so I can't compare the models unfortunately.

    ANYWAY, and to cut an already long story short (or at least wind it up quickly), I was hoping some of you would provide input on several fronts:

    1. PRICING: What sort of discount should I expect (perhaps a range) on these 3 models, MSRP'ing at $75K, $92K and $98K respectively. Maybe the price differential will shrink even further after the discount...

    2. REGRETS: I'm worried that I'd get the Cayman S, and then regret not spending a little extra to get the 911. Has anyone been in "my shoes" in this regard, and if so, what did you decide and did you regret the decision?

    3. CHILD SAFETY SEATS: One potential advantage of the 911 are the rear seats (for my two v. young kids). Do car seats or booster seats actually fit into the back of a 911? My dealer seems to think that most won't, and told me that Porsche discontinued their own brand of car safety seats. Even if some brands fit - how hard is it to actually fasten a child into a rear safety seat?

    4. AWD or C2S vs. C4S: Does AWD really make a significant difference in the wet, or does the car remain tail-happy? I live in an area that sees torrential rain quite often. While I want to feel safe, I don't want to go overboard and indulge in excessive options...

    Thanks to everyone who read this post! Your patience is GREATLY appreciated. :)
  • purplem46purplem46 Member Posts: 54
    I can only respond to points #1 and #2. First, the amount of discounting is entirely contingent upon which dealer you are working with. Get your best quote, then shop it to dealers within an area you are able to work with geographically. You can probably get the best deal on 06 new models still in stock. Second, you need to drive the 911/911S before looking for third party opinions. Then buy which one feels best to you, and don't worry about regrets. Good luck.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    1. Pricing - I got nearly 10% off MSRP last September on a 2005 C2S Cab as the 2006's were just around the corner. Check into dealer inventories for 2006's on all of the models you are considering - finding one in stock that is close to what you want should get you the best discount, even if you have to take an extra option or two. If you want to custom order a 2007, you should be able to get a 5%= discount on a 911 and a 7%+ on a Cayman, based upon feedback from my dealer in the DC/Baltimore area. But the 2007 MSrP also went up over 2006, so consider the 2006 option.

    2. Regrets - I had been considering a Boxster S. But after I realized the 911 could be out "family" car, I went for the extra $35k+. Worth every penny. If you ever want to put those little ones in the back seat, you only have one choice.

    3. Child safety seats - don't know. My youngest was 7 and 52 lbs when we got ours. Now, at 8 & 11, they still fit well, although the 11 year old is growing quickly and is now within 1" of my 5'1" wife. I think she can grow another 3-4" before we have to cut off her food supply to keep her in the 911.

    4. AWD - I went the C2S route. The Cab is already 180+/- lbs heavier than the coupe. The extra weight and drivetrain power loss of the "4" means that you basically are using the extra 30 horsepower of the "S" to make the "4S" as quick as a base "2". I have had no difficulties in an occasional heavy rain. The car is NOT tail happy unless you really push it. If you really want the extra stability of the "4", I'd consider saving the extra money for the "S". If you want maximum dry weather performance, go with the "2S".

    Good luck. And remember, all of these are personal opinions. You can get any of the cars you are considering and still risk splitting your face with a wide grin.
  • spechtbachspechtbach Member Posts: 16
    I was in the same situation. The CaymanS was nicer to drive than the 911. The 911 looked better,had a more open interior and I used to own a 912.I ordered the 911 because it is the car I really wanted.The only must option is the xenon headlights.Another valuable option is a spare tire &jack unless you enjoy waiting for tow trucks.I have had my 911 for several months and very glad I made this choice. The bottom line is buy what you want.I am also glad I joined PCA where I foud out about the 997 spare tire in their tech section. Good Luck with your choice.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Another advantage of the 911 (besides the back seat) is actual engine bay access.

    I like to work on my own cars and the fact that you need a lift to access the engine really turned me off of the Cayman and Boxster. How is an owner supposed to do any "shade tree" maintenance?
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    I drove a Cayman service loaner recently and never had so much fun in a car. It was fantastic, although a little loud with the engine right behind your right ear. I think you'd have to get a good set of radar detectors (fore and aft) to avoid losing your liscense in one of these Go Karts. They are fun!
  • spechtbachspechtbach Member Posts: 16
    Don't get caught up with Porsche's overpriced options.Spend your money on track days or driving lessons to drive a Cayman or 911 closer to the cars potential. Both cars are excellent. I have a friend who worked as a driving instructor. He routinely beat Ferraris & Porsche Turbos with a 914-4 becuse he knew when to brake & spent a great amount of time learning to drive.
  • outamoneyoutamoney Member Posts: 7
    Any suggestions on storing my beloved 06' 997S for the winter would be greatly appreciated. Just turned viciously cold here in Calgary so may not be driving it for awhile. It is in a heated garage.
  • hotrod81hotrod81 Member Posts: 16
    The service department where I bought my 997 said to over-inflate the tires with 50lbs of air to reduce flat-spots. I believe that a full tank of gas is also advisable - to reduce moisture buildup in fuel tank.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    Add Stabl Gas treatment to your fuel tank and turn off the heat to your garage. Warm air promotes rusting.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    I would check with your local dealer for their storage recommendations. hotrod81's suggestion of overinflating the tires makes sense, since that is what Porsche does when the cars are shipped form the factory. I have also heard it suggested that the battery be disconnected or connected to a trickle charger to prevent it from being completely discharged by the draw from the cars electrical components. I think Porsche sells a trickle charger specifically approved for the car. On the cold vs. warm, my dealer recommends warm (50+ degrees), as long as it's in a relatively dry area.
  • spechtbachspechtbach Member Posts: 16
    2007 911 come with the tire pressure monitoring system as standard equipment. It was approx. a $550 option in 2006.I think it is also standard on the 2007 Cayman & Boxter.
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Member Posts: 491
    you might want to get a Battery Maintainer also.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    "Another valuable option is a spare tire &jack unless you enjoy waiting for tow trucks.I have had my 911 for several months and very glad I made this choice."

    Tell us more about the spare tire and jack you got for your 911. Cost? Can it be mounted on front and/or rear? Does it take up all of the trunk? Did you get it through a Porsche dealer or other source?

    It sounds like you have already had one or more flats? I have 11,800 miles on the odometer and, knock on wood, still have good tread on both my front and rear tires. But I do get a little nervous thinking about how long it would take Porsche roadside assistance to find me on some of my longer (400 mile) road trips.
  • outamoneyoutamoney Member Posts: 7
    Thanks for everyones advice.

    Made a call to my service manager & he offered the following:
    -Inflate tires to 50 psi.
    -Full tank of gas.
    -Trickle charger plugged in . . came with my car.
    -Park the tires on cardboard, the lime from the concrete could react with the rubber, even if the floor is heated which mine is.
    Full tank of gas
    Lock it up and put it to sleep!
    Thanks again
  • spechtbachspechtbach Member Posts: 16
    I purchased the spare tire from my local Porsche dealer.It is not inflated. It takes up about 1/3 of the trunk. According to Porsche, it can be mounted on both front & rear.I haven't tried it out yet.You also must purchase a jack & wrench to remove the lug nut.No such wrench is included in the tool kit.You may also want to carry a bicycle pump since it is questionable that Porsche's electric pump will actually inflate the spare tire.The spare tire list is $783.85 The jack list price is $181.18 The dealer gave a 10% discount for PCA members. I can't say how valuable PCA has been in tech advice.The dues are a bargain. The majority of Porsche dealers don't even know the spare tire option exists. I had no success in locating the spare tire or jack from another source for less cost.
  • amerikanischamerikanisch Member Posts: 20
    My salesman just called and said the new DSG tranny will not be available until the 2009 model year (this from a mysterious person "in-the-know" in Germany). My wife would like the car sooner than that. Any suggestions on getting the true introduction time frame?
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Thanks for the info on the spare tire. That's great that it only takes up 1/3 of the trunk. It is a little pricey for a temporary spare, but that seems to be Porsche's pricing strategy on options.
  • drmataradrmatara Member Posts: 2
    What's a spare tire good for if you have no space to store the tire that went flat? I looked at my rears (19" C2S) and they are huge. They will not fit in the trunk and if you have a passenger you're out of luck again.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Damn good point. I have a C2S as well and after work I will take out a tape measure out to check whether the 19" x 295 rear wheel/tire would fit in the trunk.

    One thing for sure, the C4 is out of luck. It's trunk is smaller than the C2. But, if I'm not mistaken, the 993/996 versions of the 911 carried a spare, so I think at least the 997 C2 with 18" wheels and 265 rear tires may work.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    What about the back seat?

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  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    996 had a small donut. I think 993 did also but am not sure.
  • spechtbachspechtbach Member Posts: 16
    You need to carry some sort of bag to hold your full size tire.Large plastic trash can bags will work or you can order a nicer bag from tire rack. The brake dust and road grime will damage your interior. Another option is to hide your spare tire & pick it up later.All of these options beat tow trucks. Do you realize how much damage can be done to your beloved car by a careless tow truck driver? The less your car is touched by anyone else including the dealer, the better.Maybe other places are different but in California the odds of getting good service are slim!

    With Porshes now standatd & error prone tire pressure monitoring system,accurate tire pressure gauges are important. One of my tires was several pounds off which set off a warning light that could not be re-set.This required a time wasting trip to the dealer to repair the re-set system. Porsche is not good with electronics. So the bottom line is to get a very accurate gauge. one option for gauges is www.aerostich.com ph:800-222-1994.Michelin has a very good gauge.Does anyone know a source for Michelin gauges? I purchased a non-electric analog Flaig gauge from aerostich. The Flaig gauge works fine.
  • 07997turbo07997turbo Member Posts: 31
    I think I acquired the last 911 Pre-Production allocation available (I called all over the country and finally found a place im Mass that had one left after the guy thought he could get the triptonic and found out otherwise). It is a car with no equal. there is no other way to explain it. When you watch the Boost indicator just below the tach start to count up and hear that beautiful whine of the twin turbochargers, similar to that of a Jet engine... and then you are instantly pressed back onto your high side bolstered sport seat...to be honest, I havent found a piece of road where I can actually use the sport Chrono feature I purchased as an add-on (though I knew the car would be worth less without it in the future)... I am looking forward to next spring. I have only put 1700 miles on her since recieving delivery in october. She is now tucked softly away in the garage I built just for her, the snow is getting ready to fly and the salt trucks will be out.

    To conclude, She is a dream to drive. She can be as fast as an F-1 or as docile as a kitten... and I can honestly say I have yet to drive or even see a car that could be considered her equal.

    You must drive her to understand.

    Trace
  • ifpskenifpsken Member Posts: 39
    Any comments on aftermarket exhaust? What to be aware of, what supplier I might stay away from? Tips, ideas or recommendations?
  • 911nut911nut Member Posts: 7
    For those members who have taken delivery of a Targa.
    I find myself in a dilemma. I currently have a 2002 996 C4 conv. and a 2004 Cayenne S.
    My problem; In the next two years I will be adding to my 911 fleet and I am in a quandary
    regarding the Targa4s with the x51 pkg. or the Turbo Coupe. I realize the Targa will set me back as much as the Turbo. Hence, the dilemma, I love open motoring and find myself possibly regretting the Turbo Coupe. I am not sure in regards to having another convertible in the family. Any advice will be deeply appreciated. I know that at the time of this posting there are not many Targas on the road.
  • blckislandguyblckislandguy Member Posts: 1,150
    This kind of takes some of the GT out of the Porsche experience. Can you imagine going up to Montreal from Boston some night this month in a C4 (for the foul weather capability) and getting a flat at, say 10:30 PM near St. Albans? If you were greatly in luck some skiers might pick you up while you went for a ramp truck while the 997 was parked on the Interstate.
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    I can't imagine using a 911 for winter touring, AWD or not. The road can be a very deadly place in the winter as witnessed with the James Kim tragedy.
  • tomtomtomtomtomtom Member Posts: 491
    A Turbo Cab?
  • guestguest Member Posts: 770
    A 911 works fine on the snow with proper tires. James Kim was unfortunately on a seldom used logging road. The tires are more important than 2wd vs 4wd.Summer performance or track tires do not do well in the snow.
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