Porsche 911

chile96 · January 2007

Skip Barber uses the boxster, 911 and cayenne so it's not focused on the rear engine driving capabilities except for the track experience

blckislandguy · January 2007

The new issue of Excellence has a nice review of a base, non 'S" Cab in fly yellow. They make some interesting points about options. They say that for a lot of people the base car makes more sense because the 18" wheels handle much better (I think they used the words, "suspension being tuned better" or something to that effect) than the larger 19" S wheels, they ride better and have less road noise. They continued their comments on options saying that the $2000+ nav is one of the more inferior ones out there, they thought that the roof antenna for $140 was curious but might be OK for those in marginal AM areas, the Bose was OK for $1300, and that the heated seats for under $500 were the best deal on the Porsche option list. Curiously enough they recommended the $140 fire extinguisher not because it necessarily was going to be useful, but , well, it was a Porsche fire extinguisher.

I don't expect everyone (or even, most) to agree with me, but the more I analyze buying a 997 the more it seems that the fewer the options the better. A "4"? Who needs it? You lose trunk space, gain weight, and you just know you aren't going to go out in the middle of winter in a 997 anyway. Sport exhaust? Come on, what is this, the high school parking lot? Embossed head rests? Yep, so now everyone will know and ask for a raise. Lighted door sills? What is this, an assisted living facilty?

YMMV

fedlawman · January 2007

I agree with you 100% - base 911 with no options is the way to go.

The only option I would say is worthwhile is PASM - and even then, I'd be more inclined to spend that money on aftermarket Bilstein PSS9s instead.

Oh yeah, if the ceramic brakes were $800 instead of $8000, I'd get them too.

chrmdome · January 2007

Sirs:

An opinion well stated, however on this forum you should be advised to put on your flack jacket. The fir is about to fly. My position on the issue of options is that since the individual buying the car is paying for them, let him be the judge of whether they are worth the buck given the bang. I am hardly ready for " Excellence " or for that matter any write to make a choice for me when it's my dime. Well, except for GT Purely Porsche... they are the crystal word when it comes to Porsche. A bit highly priced for a mag..but it is the best. ( Oh no! an opinion...)

Chromedome

habitat1 · January 2007

I think you/anyone should test drive the cars and judge for themselves things like handling and ride, rather than take any review as the final word.

For example, on the articles assessment,

"the 18" wheels handle much better (I think they used the words, "suspension being tuned better" or something to that effect) than the larger 19" S wheels,"

I would be tempted to call that a foolish statement. Before getting a 911S, I spent a lot of seat time in numerous Boxster S's, about half with the standard 18" wheels and half with the 19" optional "Carerra S" wheels. I'd challenge almost anyone to tell the difference from driving in a non track environment. BUT, for those that also had PASM, switching between normal and sport modes was immediately noticable.

When I decided to go with the 911, I focused primarily on the "S" model, but still had a few test drives in the base model. Same conclusion. I could not tell any tire specific ride or handling difference between a base 911 w/ 18" wheels and an S with 19" wheels and the PASM set on "normal". If anything, the S was more dental-filling friendly. But switch the PASM to "sport", and everything firmed up significantly. If the Excellence reviewers think that a base, non PASM 911 can carve up a smoth road or take a highway on ramp like a PASM equiped S model set on sport, then they need to explain how they drive.

Whether a buyer wants to limit their cost and go after a limitedly optioned base 911 is a personal decision and one I would fully respect. But I think Excellences assessment of it being a better riding and handling car isn't just disingenuous, it's plain wrong. But don't take my word on it, do the comparison yourself.

redsoxgirl · January 2007

I'd have to call and raise habitat1's response.

If the guys (or gals) at Excellence think that a base 911 outhandles a 911S, they need to get different jobs. I'm not just saying this because I happen to own a 2007 911S coupe. My brother is a former Porsche racing team member and still is actively involved with the company. It is widely accepted among his engineer friends and serious 911 drivers that one of the single biggest advancements from the 996 to the 997 is the availability of PASM. Which you don't get as standard equipment on the base 911. Singling out 18" vs. 19" wheels and tires is rather meaningless when an "S" model rides 1/2" lower and has a highly advanced adjustable suspension. PASM is even used in the 997 GT3, in spite of a moderate weight gain, so you know its the best Porsche has to offer in handling advancement.

And, no offense to Cab owners, but any real test of handling needs to be done on a coupe. So between testing a "speed" yellow base Cab and then suggesting that a Porsche fire extinguisher is a must have "logo" option, I think these guys (or gals) left their credibility with the sports pages in the powder room before going to work that day. If you get my drift.

tagman · January 2007

I also believe that the "S" with PASM is the way to go, and after careful comparisons it's the way I went with my '07 Carrera S Cab (in speed yellow, BTW).

I question any reviewers preference for less power found in the base unit. Additionally, the PASM in the "S" gives a very nice choice, IMO, that is instantly noticeable between normal and sport modes. Personally, I like the "S" wheels better, but when it comes to subjective matters, there are lots of choices that should be personal.

Blckislandguy, you should test for yourself as others here have said. I would be willing to bet however that you will recognize and want the advantages of the "S" variant and that you will also like the PASM.

Good luck!

TagMan

spechtbach · January 2007

Only get the options that make you happy. The bi-xenon headlights are wonderful. The tire pressure indicator is std for 07.Spend the extra $$ on driving classes!With Porsche, you can order the car with any option package.

spechtbach · February 2007

I have only had my C2 since October. The basic problem in driving the car fast in a high speed corner is that the steering gets very light. If you hit a bump in the pavement while cornering it scares the ... out of you. I don't think PASM,19" wheels or "S" helps with this problem. I asked a club driving instructor about this issue and he told me that you will get used to it & push on the gas.Any comments,opinions or advice?

Mr_Shiftright · February 2007

You could probably adjust the front end and/or modify it to control that better...it's what they call "bump steer". I'd imagine larger wheels would amplify that problem somewhat but I'm not sure.

here's more than you ever wanted to know about it. Is this what you're experiencing?

Bump Steer Explained

tagman · February 2007

I have only had my C2 since October. The basic problem in driving the car fast in a high speed corner is that the steering gets very light. If you hit a bump in the pavement while cornering it scares the ... out of you. I don't think PASM,19" wheels or "S" helps with this problem. I asked a club driving instructor about this issue and he told me that you will get used to it & push on the gas.Any comments,opinions or advice?

I know the sensation you are describing. It can be quite unnerving. Relax, there is nothing wrong with your car. It is an inherent characteristic of the car, not necessarily a bad one, but one to become more familiar with and overcome.

Before trading it in on the C2, I had an '06 Limited Edition Lotus Elise Sport with both Sport Pack and Track Pack, and its cornering, even over bumps, felt like a slot car, as though the car was literally glued to the road. Quite amazing, frankly, and almost nothing is quite like it at any price.

That feeling of being "glued to the road" does indeed fade away from the C2's front end when cornering at high speed, particularly when the road has any bumps. Don't let that sensation freak you out, because your instructor is correct. Stay with the throttle and the car will in fact reward you by tracking correctly around the turn... up to realistic limits of course, so beware!

It can be difficult to wrestle down that sensation, but if you have a place to practice, I'm willing to bet you will overcome it.

TagMan

blckislandguy · February 2007

Yep, next time order your 997 with the extended cab option, sometimes call the "high speed sweeper, enhanced Yankee edition" option. It adds 6" to the wheel base and makes the car much more stable on any roads north of the Mason Dixon line.

Seriously, I think that more than anything else, the short wheel base is the problem. I have an F150 Supercab with 139" of wheelbase (I don't think that Conrail has locomotves with this much wb) and nothing is going to deflect it from its mission.

amerikanisch · February 2007

Not to change the subject, but have any of you afficianados heard any time frame for the introduction of the new transmission on the 911? I have heard everything from this Spring to not until the 2009 models come out. Does anyone have any inside information?

Thanks

habitat1 · February 2007

My dealer believes the DSG will be available in some 2008 models, but unlikely before that. He also believes that it will eventually replace the Tiptronic completely, rather than be a third choice. He used to work at the factory, so his past predictions have been pretty accurate.

amerikanisch · February 2007

Do you know when the 2008 911 S Turbo models will become available for order?

designman · February 2007

The response to that Excellence article is an example of how rumors get started and snowball into something that doesnt exist. They never said the base non-PASM 911 on 18 tires handles better or that the engine is better or that this was even a comparo with the S. It said the car has admirable qualities or charms. With regard to the 18s and suspension, the writer said it is more predictable. However you MUST consider that he also recommended 19s with PASMthats the better handling setup. He also compared the base cab with its true marketplace rivals, the SL500, 650ci, and XK8 convertibles, calling it more fun to drive.

Read between the lines. Theres no need to trash Pete Stout and Excellence.

designman · February 2007

Redsoxgirl PASM has its detractors among plenty of track rats and professional critics. Most critics fall short of slamming Porsche for it, but it is referred to practically everywhere as refinement in a negative sense. IMO it has helped insulate the driver from the road. Feedback just isnt the way it was on the older ones. Stouts comparison of the 997 GT3 to the 996 GT3 in the same April issue of Excellence pretty much sums it up. And the second opinion in the sidebar by Johannes van Overbeek also criticizes PASM even though both writers give the 997 the nod.

tagman · February 2007

D-Man - Thanks for the clarification.

Good job reading between the lines!

TagMan

redsoxgirl · February 2007

My mistake in criticizing blackislandguy's summary of the Excellence article before reading it myself. There were some rather liberal interpretations of what was actually stated in the post I had responded to.

However, just to balance out your statements...

"PASM has its detractors among plenty of track rats and professional critics. Most critics fall short of slamming Porsche for it, but it is referred to practically everywhere as refinement in a negative sense. IMO it has helped insulate the driver from the road. Feedback just isnt the way it was on the older ones."

My brother, who I previously indicated still has a professional relationship with Porsche, and his racing team friends, would generally disagree with your statements and those of the Excellence editors. I won't get into a [non-permissible content removed] for tat debate, since much of what we would be debating is subjective in nature and I'd only be repeating his opinions. But what isn't as subjective are track times. My brother has bested his best lap times in a 996 GT3 by over 2 seconds in the 997 GT3 at Barber Motorsport Park. Notwithstanding the power increase, he would attribute at least some of that to PASM.

I do appreciate what you claim to be the "feedback". But, IMHO the non-PASM 996 isn't the 911 to get nostalgic about. The air cooled 993 is.

beatfive · February 2007

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=a46FG2hBzreg&refer=home

tagman · February 2007

Interesting indeed, but I would expect there are many rounds to go in that fight, before an ultimate compromise is finally ironed out.

History shows we have little to fear here, as most legislation like that favors business. Even if somehow eventually there was a small increase in the price to build every Porsche, it would make little difference in the long run, IMO. Thanks for the link.

TagMan

habitat1 · February 2007

``This is a business war in Europe,'' Wiedeking, 54, told shareholders at Stuttgart's Porsche Arena on Jan. 26. ``It's the French and Italians up against the Germans.''

Perhaps not. From what I can tell from EPA emissions data, if Porsche has a moderate sized problem achieving these proposed standards, Ferrari will be put out of business completely. Compare the emissions of a Ferrari 430 to a 911 Turbo and it looks like a sewage plant compared to a mountain stream. And the 430 is Ferrari's most environmentally friendly vehicle.

Protecting the environment and global warming are very serious issues that, unfortunately, have been politicized far too much and frought with ignorant comments from some "experts" that couldn't pass Chemistry 101, but get air time on the nightly news. An interesting comment from an actual scientist on a recent History Channel program on nuclear technology was that US CO2 emissions would be reduced more by building 1-2 new nuclear power plant per year to replace/augment fossil fuel plants than all of the proposed auto efficiency proposals currently on the table, combined. Not to say that they shouldn't be implemented as well, but a bullet wound requires surgery, not just a bandaid.

chrmdome · February 2007

Greetings:

Well....... Porsche SUV 2008... back to those ugly and nontraditional ( deleted vulgar word ) headlights. Let's keep the round/ egg shaped headlights! You know, evolution not revolution! Combo of turn signal/ headlight in past 996 was to save money. Ugly as it was ( and the reason for me waiting until 2006 for my 997) Porsche has flush pockets. Why in the world are they revisiting old school. Bummer. More HP than the 997 turbo in an SUV from Porsche is also an oxymoron. Maybe just moronic.... My new Silverado has 367 and doesn't need more...

Chromedome. PS where is everyone?

habitat1 · February 2007

"My new Silverado has 367 and doesn't need more..."

Your new Silverado couldn't USE any more horsepower, as it isn't exactly competive with the Cayenne's suspension and handling.

Porsche may be guilty of taking the "S" in SUV to the extreme, but for 95% of SUV's out there, they are the oxymorons for using the label "sport", not Porsche. I think FAM for "family utility vehicle" would best describe our 2005 MDX and it's one of the better handling ones out there.

Can't speak for "everyone", but the cold weather and ice has had my 911 out of commission for a week and I'm in a bad mood.

hotrod81 · February 2007

Can't speak for "everyone", but the cold weather and ice has had my 911 out of commission for a week and I'm in a bad mood.

We've had salt on the roads for at least 3 weeks. I couldn't stand it any longer last weekend, so I warmed up the car for about 15 minutes in the driveway, with me in it! :surprise:

blckislandguy · February 2007

I thought that a three quarter ton pickup handled well? After all, look at the vehicles tailgating in the passing lane on a snowy night. Those 367 horses under the hood just have to get out.

Most of the vehicles that I see that have skidded off the road tend to be large SUVs and pickups. Not European sedans.

chrmdome · February 2007

Greetings:

There was no intention to compare a Silverado with a Porsche or a Silverado with an european sedan. The Chevy Silverado is the 2007 "truck of the year" and in the context of hauling/towing, 367 hp does just fine thank you. 0-60 time is not of interest here! It's not a rocket! The new GMC Sierra will have a 6.2 liter 400hp model with balanced frame/suspension. GMC has been around for a while making trucks and neither you nor I should consider that we know better than they when it comes to truck design. Mine is a 4x4 anyway and likely ( yes likely )to be found off the side of the road, intentionally. I digress......My point was that those damn butt ugly headlights are going back on the new 2008 Porsche SUV. The 996 was given those mostrosities to save bucks. Digressing, my point about horsepower at 500 bph in an SUV was also questioned in one of the popular porsche writes ( Excellence ? ). It seemed odd to the author as it does to me that the 997 Turbo has an equivelent hp to thier SUV. When we think of dumping the " little darlings " out with thier soccer balls on Saturday morning with Mom at the wheel with a vehicle that has 500bhp...the one good eye opens..just seems weird.
Stiring up the pot a little more guys. Grab this months copy of " Excellence " and read the column on technical questions. This author gives his little ditty on the 2000 mile break in period. That should warm up your cold hearts.
Sounds to be somewhat in contradition to the opinions on this post over the last year, but the authors advise is to break it in as you wish..redline whatever..read it guys and see what you think. Well talk about warming up a cold heart, habitat1 , it's 70 degrees, sunny and dry here in good ole' San Diego. I think I'll fire up the 997S tomorrow and let the rubber meet the road..enjoy the white stuff. Cheers

Chromedome....from beautiful, delightful Sun Diego ( no speeling error there! )

designman · February 2007

Chrome... the contrasting difference in opinion on break in has been going on forever. The grip-it-and-rip-it approach subverts all of my scientific intuition and the notes in Excellence offer nothing definitive or remotely scientific. I wonder if Porsche, any other manufacturer, or anyone period even collect data on break in. Short of absolute knowledge, my attitude is to err on the side of caution. San Diego, I'm jealous!

habitat1 · February 2007

A couple of comments:

Porsche was criticized by some purists for even making an SUV period. Then they produce the most "S" worthy SUV and they are criticized for going too far? You can't please all of the people all of the time. In any event, I take my kids to soccer and basketball in our 911.

The 996 headlights were to save bucks? I agree that I much prefer the 993 and 997 look to the 996. But come on, in full production how much could Porsche possibly be saving? I think it's just a styling mistake, but I don't think Porsche was trying to expand market share or profitability by saving a few dollars on headlights. Especially when they can make tons more by selling $5 wheel crests for $250.

As for break in, it seems rather odd that I got exactly the same recommendations from 3 sources I consider highly qualified - a neighbor who is a former Porsche race team member, my sales manager who spent several years at the factory headquarters, and a friend who has dual masters from Duke in mettalurgy/material science and mechanical engineering. Not to mention several other high end car fanatics. I am skeptical of the Excellence editors and writers real technical and scientific knowledge of the matter, but everyone is free to do as they wish.

chrmdome · February 2007

Sir:

I agree with your view 100%. Having been around cars since the age of 14, I have had the unfortunate experience of finding metal shavings on my magnetic oil plug just once. ( 1965 VW Bug ). This was an experience I wish not to repeat on a $100K + high performance and expensive to fix vehicle. They can grip and rip a test car if they like... not me, not mine.

Chromedome

chrmdome · February 2007

Sir:

Butt Ugly headlights...( style mistake ? ).. the 996 was shadowed by the Boxster by those damn things, now thier SUV dumb! Tradition.. yes round ones! Have you ever wondered why, when you looked in your rear view mirror at a 996 or a Boxster, you had difficulty in knowing which model it was. The reason is simple... they had the same headlights. This was a financial move. 996 owners were not to fond of this. Understanding that at Porsche, before the advent of the ever popular and tremendously successful Boxster, Porsche was having financial problems, they were close to going under. A Japanese motor group came in and tried to save the company, I'm not sure that they were involved with the Boxster, the model that saved Porsche, but thier input was sharing parts with various models, thus the same headlights and other common parts. Get a good look at the dashboard on the 997 and the Cayman. So similar it's sad. Anyway, to think Porsche was always so flush with cash as they are now brings me to the interior quality of the 996... compare it to the 997 ,the difference is obvious. Porsche was shaving things here big time. When the 997 came out in late 2004 all the mags were writing about the great improvement ( exterior and interior quality ) and the 997 sales skyrocketed. One butt ugly headlight part which included high/low beam, running light and turn signal...one part to buy, one part to install.. simple, it was a cost saving measure, just as shared parts continue between the Cayman, Boxter, 997,... Chevy Silverado, GMC Sierra etc. Yes it was all about bucks . Finally , I didn't agree with the article in " Excellence " I just thought I'd toss the idea out there, it's scary as far as I see it.

Chromedome

habitat1 · February 2007

Perhaps you are right that the 996 headlights were part of a larger cost cutting strategy, but I think it's equally likely that the new Cayenne is just a (unfortunate) styling decision. And, by the way, while I would agree that the 997 interior is more attractive than the 996, I believe the 996 was considered a step up from the 993 and it's predecessors. That doesn't stop some purists from still claiming the 993 had the most "soul" of any 911 model. For them it's almost as though an attractive, comfortable interior is an anathema to a real sports car. As was the decision to go to water cooling.

For whatever reason, headlight styling has always been a bit of a wacky world of "if it's not broken, let's fix/change it anyway". Mercedes went from round to square back to round. Every sports car manufacturer, Porsche and Ferrari included, dabbled with flip up headlights in the 1980's and early 1990's. I guess I'm glad that I couldn't afford a 911 until the headlight style happened to coincide with my tastes.

As far as the 997, Cayman and even Boxster interiors looking similar, that's not "sad" by me. It certainly doesn't diminish my ego as a 911 owner to hop into a Cayman and feel at home. Almost the opposite. I bought the 911 because of the car's engineering, performance and functional attributes. I wouldn't have wanted to feel like I was being subliminally prodded towards it, just to get a Porsche-worthy interior.

I'll now let this issue go and return to praying to the weather gods that the forecast of 45+ degree weather by early next week comes true.

chrmdome · February 2007

Sir:

Full agreement. For me, the most pleasing Porsche ever made is the 993. Just absolutely beautiful. The correct size , just perfect, classic interior. My wife dosen't know it yet, but a quality used 993 is my next purchase. We have 5 vehicles in the driveway now and she's not really happy about that, or the prospect of a 6th. Oh well boys will be boys with thier toys. Concerning interiors and part sharing. Some of the Porsche writes share my feelings about part sharing. If I purchased a $140K 997 Turbo the least I would deserve is a unique interior. You get a semi-unique interior. The design issue is probably the best present day example of " build it and they will come" . The design and material change from the 996 to the 997 has made Porsche the #1 car company on the planet. Flush pockets! Have a great day and hope the weather improves for you. Later

Chromedome

blckislandguy · February 2007

Chrome, keep in mind that your VW bug didn't have an oil filter so you saw more shavings than normal.

Speaking of break-in recommendations, everyone in the industry seems to agree that you shouldn't use synthetic during the initial break-in because it is too slippery and the mating surfaces don't have a chance to wear-in together. They also agree that the very first oil change should come early on. Yet, Porsche sends the car out with synthetic and the first oil change isn't due for 10K on some models and 20K on other vehicles/engines. Finally, why the continued use of a cartridge style oil filter that was last used maybe 45 years ago by other manufacturers? Maybe the cartridge style won't blow off the engine as a spin-on will on a cold morning?? This is puzzling to me.

habitat1 · February 2007

"everyone in the industry seems to agree that you shouldn't use synthetic during the initial break-in because it is too slippery and the mating surfaces don't have a chance to wear-in together."

Who the heck is that "everyone in the industry"? As far as I know, EVERY serious performance car I know comes from the factory with Mobil One. All BMW "M" cars, all AMG cars, all Porsches, all Ferraris, even the Honda S2000. Maybe those "everyone's" are flunkies from GM who have lax engine tolerances that are measure in inches, but for tight tolerance, high performance engines capable of 7,000-9,000+ rpm, the "slippery" Mobil One is perfect.

I did have my oil changed at 1 year and 10,000 miles, half of what the first service requirement was, but had a Porsche factory technician assure me that it wasn't necessary, given the 9.3+ quart capacity.

chrmdome · February 2007

Sirs:

I've had the great pleasure of going on my yearly long range ocean fishing trip ( tuna: bluefin, yellowfin, albacore, wahoo, yellowtail, etc ) out of Fishermans Landing here in San Diego, with one of head engineers who is responsible for developing Mobil 1. He has deep trust in the product. Habitat1 has it correct. The tolerances on certain engines will not allow Mobil 1 not ( double negative but you get the point ) to leak past the ring surfaces to such a degree that oil consumption skyrockets. The engine will actually leak oil where it did not with the nonsynthetic product. Obviously he (the engineer ) is biased, but he swears by the product. The only question that I would offer is this. If the surfaces do not mate properly during break-in with Mobil 1 , why then has my oil consumption on my 2006 997s dropped dramatically after the 2000 mile break in period? It's pretty much standard knowledge that oil consumption drops dramatically at this point..Logically then the surfaces, rings etc do mate properly. The one point I may add for those who are presently in this break in period is to do the following. During break-in, when you downshift, allow the car to slow as you come to a stop while in gear. I have been told that the negative chamber pressure caused by this process allows the rings to seat more properly. By the way, the only " filter " I had on my 65 VW was a screen. Some guys used those toilet paper filters and swear by them saying that they extended oil life tremendously..Wish I had Mobil 1 in the VW, it would probably still be alive

Chromedome

hotrod81 · February 2007

Reading a recent post, I saw the VW mentioned. Do VW owners naturally become Porsche owners? I wonder how many people reading this forum actually owned a VW early on. Perhaps you even tried modifying it. :shades:

rogueag · February 2007

Good morning, I am in the final negotiating stages of buying this car. This will be my first Porsche so I am in the quick learning stage. It has Tiptronic, Bose, Xeons, Nav, Sport Chrono,19 inch wheels and power heated seats. The car has 17,600 and approximately 27 months left on warranty. There is not a Porsche dealer where I live in west TX. Dallas, where the car is, is about 325 miles away. I am concerned about service and warranty work because of the distance involved. The starting price is $69,900. My questions are is there anything specific that I should be looking for in this car regarding problem areas or maintenance issues. The dealer stated that if the car had a major issue where it was undriveable that Porsche road side would pick up the car and take it to them in Dallas. Thanks in advance.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2007

The only think I learned from taking apart VW engines and Porsche engines is that they have nothing to do with each other except a vague similarity in concept. Mickey Mouse vs. Michaelangelo if you will. :P

blckislandguy · February 2007

Habitat1, while I agree that "every serious performance car...comes with Mobil1" that wasn't under discussion. Rather, I mentioned that during the break-in period the mating surfaces need to get acquainted and wear in together. A full synthetic is too slippery to allow for this. Source? The Automotive Engine Rebuilders Asscociation

Like you, I did the first oil change in my Porsche at 10K, well before the factory recommendation. Not withstanding a technicians off hand comment about the superiority of a 9.3 litre oil capacity, the original oil, synthetic or dino, in a new engine still contains metal chips from the machining operations, still gets dirty and, especially here in the Northeast, dilluted during winter by cold running. The only way to tell the quality of the oil is by spectrographic analysis ("oil sampling"), something which the owners of expensive diesel powered equipment do on a regular basis.

Incidentally, I think it would be a great idea if Porsche offerred free oil sampling with every $300 oil change. This would cost them about $10 in lab fees and further bind the customer to the dealer, a goal of all successful businesses. (While a happy customer is good, a loyal customer, e.g., the people who like it or not think they have to buy certain products, is better.)

chrmdome · February 2007

Sirs:

Actually a great idea, oil analysis. Google " oil analysis " and any one of several companies that come up will test your sample. The only problem is: once you get the results, ussually a factor of metal salts and base metals. What do the results mean. Obviously Porsche would have the answer, however are they going to devuldge those answers to you....Other than a VW that I owned when I was car stupid, not vehicle that I have owned since I was 16 has had an oil related problem, This included 4 Porsches. I have been absolutely religious about oil changes , however, and have always exceeded OEM recommendations, even if the oil looked relatively clean. It's like blood, if its old or low your dead

Chromedome

hotrod81 · February 2007

The only think I learned from taking apart VW engines and Porsche engines is that they have nothing to do with each other except a vague similarity in concept. Mickey Mouse vs. Michaelangelo if you will.

Multiple times my 1985 Carrera was refered to as a glorified volkswagen as an attempt to say something insulting to me. Kind of aggravating. But my post was not an attempt to bring up that sour subject. I was just mussing on a cold day as to what makes some of us choose a Porsche over something else. Not really wanting to start a fight with anyone. goodday.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2007

Din't interpret your comments that way at all :P

Porsche, like Ferrari, offers the driver something completely different in experience, and that's why I think most people who choose a Porsche do so....you can't get "it" anywhere else. It's nothing like a Viper, a Corvette, an NSX, an EVO or whatever....it's its own experience. So in THAT sense, yeah, a 1965 VW was its own experience for an American car owner, but I'm not sure all that POSITIVE an experience!

blckislandguy · February 2007

Hey, my first car when I came home from Vietnam was a VW and it was a POSITIVE experience! A VW bug is the fastest thing off the line for the first 30 feet. A real stump puller. No joke. Talk about pedal to the metal, when I would drive up to VT to go skiing (it had a vertical ski rack, like a rocket launcher, on the rear bumper) I would just put the hammer down and not lift up until we hit Stowe. Of course you had to wear clean socks because the heat came in through vents on the floor.

chile96 · February 2007

Two things: 1)Get a Pre-purchase inspection at either a dealer(not the one where you're buying the car if applies) or a local independent shop and 2)get a dealer to give you the service history from the VIN (they can and have done this in the past if you're nice)

If the car is in no-man's land without any of the above near you - i don't know what to tell you. Honestly, i'd wouldn't buy one without the above mentioned so it may mean buying out of city/state.

Are you in Midland? If so, I lived there shortly and will be returning shortly. And I had to have my cars shipped to Dallas for routine maintenance or warranty work

designman · February 2007

...while I agree that "every serious performance car...comes with Mobil1" that wasn't under discussion. Rather, I mentioned that during the break-in period the mating surfaces need to get acquainted and wear in together. A full synthetic is too slippery to allow for this. Source? The Automotive Engine Rebuilders Asscociation

I'm not even close to being thoroughly knowledgeable on break-in and oil, but the way I understand it is that the primary concern is tempering the metal parts of the engine, wear to a lesser degree. A bad temper which is created by heating extremes, rates and inconsistencies can distort metal creating improper seating and tolerances. It can also weaken the metal and affect its properties. These are the undesirables. The idea of a slippery oil is to prevent wear, prolong the process of wear which is desirable even if it takes longer for mating due to wear. In any event, there are many factors and I would be interested in hearing what your source has to say about it. Got a link? I suppose I can google the AERA but it would be nice to know that we are reacting to and commenting on the same item.

kyfdx · February 2007

'99 C2 coupe.. Ocean(?)blue (navy), with black leather..

40K miles.. Nothing special in the way of options..

$29K

Whaddaya think?

designman · February 2007

That's definitely a great price especially if it's a clean specimen. There are a few concerns with the 99 which is FMY for the 996 but I forget what they are. It's ironic, there are 993s that are 2 years older that are fetching more than that.

kyfdx · February 2007

Yeah.. I haven't seen it.. except for the on-line ad.. It seems like it might be in "daily driver" condition.

Driver's bolster is pretty worn (typical), some chips out of the front spoiler, etc..

But, this is the part that kills me.. "center glove-box is loose, and it doesn't have floor mats". Uh.. what? Even at a "bargain" price, it seems you'd put a couple hundred into fixing something, just so you wouldn't have to note it in the ad.

nyccarguy · February 2007

Hmmmmm. What else is hiding?

Post a link to the ad so we can check out the car's condition.

Porsche 911

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