Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Warranty Direct recently sent me quotes of $4,200 for a 7 year/75k mile "Luxury care" bumper to bumper and $3,700 for a similar length "SecureCare" Plan with a few more exclusions. Their "MajorCare" plan which covers most big ticket items is only $2,200 for 7/75.
I am not going to buy an extended warranty until at least a year from now or later. They have little value on resale and if you buy a 7/75 when the car is new, you are effectively only getting 3 additional years and 25k miles over the factory warranty. I'd rather wait until I decide how long I'll keep the car.
Having said all this, my dealer didn't even suggest the invisible film stuff for the front end sheetmetal. I had them put it on my Cayenne for $700 or so and highly recommend it.
Also, for what it's worth, they initially quoted me around $1,100 a year for my 911, and then the first bill came in at around $2,000. Turns out they rated the 911S in the same category as a Carerra GT. Took quite a bit of work to get them to give me the same rate as a base 911, but they finally did.
This was all told to me first hand by the F&I guy at the Porsche Dealership who left for the mortgage business.
He told me that they would absolutely LIE to do whatever it took to sell these warranties and tire coverages. I already knew this but he said most of the time, these company's would declare bankruptcy and all their assets would be in the Bahamas so they would be untouched. They would start the company over again under an adjusted name and not have to honor any previous issued warranties.
Seriously, for $5-7K, put that money in the bank and collect interest(albeit tiny). Once in a blue moon something big will go out and at most cost the amount of the warranty - but even if it was covered by the warranty(which they'll fight tooth & nail), you'll still have to pay some of it out of pocket because they'll say, "Yeah, we'll cover the clutch but we won't pay for the labor on X(which has to be done) or this or that. And we'll also only pay $40 per hour for labor, not the $110 your porsche dealer charges"
I know there have been SEVERAL threads on Edmunds about these extended warranty companies and how they're screwing people left and right.
FWIW, I have not had any experience with these companies so I am not bitter - just don't like to see honest people getting screwed over. So if you're a crook, yeah - go ahead and buy one - they're great!
However, I would also assume that most people successful enough to buy a 911 are also smart enough not to be easily and imprudently pursueded by the F&I guy. It's relatively easy to shop around and look into the credentials of the various companies offering these warranties. Pricing is negotiable as well.
It is absolutely true that the probability you will spend more than $5k on repairs on a 911 is less than 50/50. Otherwise, all of these companies would be out of business. Same is true for the collision component of your auto insurance. I am paying $2,000 a year on our three vehicles for that, and haven't had an at fault accident in 15 +/- years. Geico is $30k ahead on me. Should I drop collision on our 911 and save $800 a year? (I have raised the deductable to the maximum $1,000 already).
Point is, with a 911, an out of warranty engine replacement (rear main seal leak) is $15k+/-. Replacement of the navigation system if the screen dies is $4k +/-. Electrical gremlins at 60k miles - who knows? There are lots of other items that would cost hundreds on a Honda that cost thousands on a 911.
I am absolutely NOT advocating extended warranties. In fact, I doubt I'll get one because, for me, a $15k engine replacement is a low probability item that, if required, would not bankrupt me. But others may have a different risk profile, to which I would recommend shopping hard and doing lots of research.
P.S. We probably will get an 8/120 extended warranty on our MDX. It's relatively cheap ($1,500) and I'm not completely convinced that the automatic transmission woes of Acura have been solved. More importantly, it is thoruhg AcuraCare - a factory program that pays 100% of the costs and there is no third party company to deal with. BUT, we have been offered the plan from a midwest dealer for $500 less than the DC dealers were willing to discount. So "caveat emptor" still applies.
You definitely have to read these "warranties" over and see what the exclusions and deductibles are. They will rarely match a factory warranty.
they are a product like any other and you can shop around.
As far as I know, thats all there is to it, that on Brand new cars they offer the program automaticly, call them for more info? what is everyone paying for insurance?
You're missing the green grass and arbor canyons of the suburbs. NYC insurance is expensive. ;-)
When I gave the 997 Turbo info to my auto insurance broker, the insurance quote was $1,000 PER MONTH!!!!! As it turned out, my company, Mercury, simply did not want the business. He searched the market and directed me to State Farm. I paid $473.23 for 6 months (Orange County, Calif)! I found that it is best to search your local area market for the best rates.
I recently had a Clear Bra installed, $625. Any pro or con comments?
Speaking of prices (you all know that this is one of my favorite topics), I think that Porsche resale should get even better as they trot out ever more expensive variants on the 911. There has to be a halo effect that would extend down to a "lowly" base 997. I mean, even an upper middle class guy should be able to catch some spillover effects from the truly high end people (entertainment lawyers, trust funders, Silicon Valley types, hedge fund managers, joint MD/JD's, etc.) buying GT-3 RSs, now-used GT Carreras, 997 Turbos, 997 Targas, 997s with Aero kits, etc.
I think that the rear main seal (or RMS as the car mags say) is confined to early 996s. Speaking of 996s, I get the impresssion that you are adamant that a 996 is far inferior to a 997 and you wouldn't even consider one. Is it just the interior and the RMS leak?
The install can be done anytime, your dealer must have made that comment so he would recive the sale. My installer clayed the surfaces before installing.
I am not "adamant" that the 996 is "far inferior" to the 997. It's just that the 997 appeals more to me as an daily driver and I appreciate the performance improvements as well as the aesthetic ones. But, if you can get a good deal on a CPO 996, you aren't going to get a "say what?" from me.
P.S. It appears the RMS leak has occured on some 997's. None that my dealer is aware of, but check out the "Rennlist" forums. That is why I was religious about following break in recommendations and post them monthly.
The years and miles are after the original warranty expires. This means that along with 2 years of original warranty + 5 more yeras, I will have 5 years warranty.
I am sure I will be signing this up (opting for $ 250 deductible options) and on checking with the credit union folks, they personally had very good experiences with this.
I feel somehow more confident about warranties offered by Credit Union folks than the dealers promoted companies.
Anyone with additional perspective. Thanks
The RMS leak issue has not, to my knowledge, been fully explained in any "official" Porsche customer communications. I couldn't even confirm that there really was a change from the 996 to the 997 in the RMS design. Shame on them. It's one of the few smudges on Porsche's integrity that I am aware of.
http://www.griotsgarage.com/catalog.jsp?&SKU=11153
It will describe how clay is used. I use Clay Magic instead of the Griot's product but I use a lot of other Griot's products.
I picked up my Turbo on a Friday night and clayed it Saturday after I had wiped it down and discovered quite a bit of either paint overspray or some other type of contaminate on the surface. Now it shines like a new car should!!
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2602a.shtml
Did you get a chance to talk to your local dealer about a Turbo 911 (Tip) at MSRP? I had one lined up at my local dealer and they sold it out from under me. Thanks!
He says the problem lies in the new engine case designed for the 996, which uses 6 main bearings in stead of the old 8 mains in the 993. For this reason, he presumes, the crankshaft is not adequately supported and may....may...caused movement of the seal and leakage.
The current remedy is to use an improved seal, which is installed in a very non-intuitive manner, that is....DRY, and with the crankshaft area DEGREASED and with no one even TOUCHING the seal surface prior to installation.
As to what % of 996s leak or how likely yours is, he really can't say....but he does see this problem and it is well-known in Porsche circles. Yours is probably fine but it's a good thing to watch out for.
Another thing he suggests is that if any 996 owner is having difficulties with heating system components, such as blown out heater cores or radiator overfill jars, this indicates excessive cooling system pressure possibly caused by a bad head gasket. So if you see these symptoms have the engine tested immediately.
Hope this helps. If the 997 case is the same engine case, then we may see the same problem...if it has been re-designed to improve this situation, then okay I guess.
Porsches GT and racing motors are, curiously, 993 engine cases modified for water cooling.
Perhaps others have similair observations - please let me know, because I am worried that perhaps I have a bum transmission in my 2006 Carrera S. Shifting into higher gears is sometimes silky smooth, and other times feels "tight" or "stiff". I always push clutch in all the way before shifting. Also, sometimes I'll be sitting at a stoplight, and it will not go into 1st. Releasing clutch and then repressing solves this. Lastly, sometimes it feels like you can feel a gear mesh when shifting - is this what people refer to as knotchy? Thansks.
I suggest you try driving other 911's at your dealership for comparison. If your's still seems tight, stiff, notchy or whatever, then you can grab the service manager and have him check it out.
P.S. Was the car brand new when you bought it, without demo miles? A friend went to try out a "new" 911 several weeks ago at one of the local dealerships. As it turned out, it had over 900 miles on it and he also claimed it didn't shift as smoothly as mine. Perhaps coincidence, perhaps not.
the sales manager was out for two weeks, back Monday. But the assistant SM indicated their next unsold allocation is for a December build, Jan/Feb delivery. They have had all Turbo allocations pushed back 1+ month and the next 3-4 incoming are sold. But its a relatively small dealership, so keep checking around from your end.
Also, he indicated Tiptronic was considered an "option" and could be specified on any 911 allocation 4+ weeks prior to the (starting) build date. That sounds different than what you heard. However, the assistant sales manager is a glorified sales person, whereas the manager is much more knowledgeable about the vehicles. I'll let you know if I hear anything different on Monday.
I ordered the car, and waited the 4 months for delivery; it had 10.7 miles on it when I got it, and now has 2900 miles.
I have followed all the break in recommendations.
I will try to go there Monday and see if I can drive
another. thx...
My new 997's battery discharged overnight. I'm not sure why but when I left the garage the engine fan was running. In the morning the battery was dead. The rear stabilizer was raised as well. I had left the key in the ignition; maybe that was what drained the battery. The key, of course, was stuck and couldn't be removed. And I couldn't open the front hood without battery power, and had to use jumper cables to the auxiliary electrode by the clutch pedal. (This a catch-22: if you're on the road and carry jumper cables in your luggage compartment, you can't get to the cables without a jump!)
After recharging the battery with a trickle charger, the window wouldn't reset to fully closed upon shutting the door. According to the manual, after restoring battery power the window position can be re-stored in the computer by raising the window *once* and then raising the switch again. Having opened and closed the window out of this sequence, I wanted to repeat the process, so I disconnected the battery and re-connected it a few seconds later. This didn't help. I re-connected the battery two more times without success.
After that a number of things went wrong. The PSM failure warning came on and went off about 12 hours later. The car alarm came on at 6:00 a.m. without anyone touching the car.
I took it into the dealer and they found something wrong with the window motor, which they will replace. They also found 59 computer "faults" that they attributed to disconnecting the battery. They suggested I not disconnect the battery and also buy a battery conditioner.
I found nothing in the manual about computer problems from loss of electric power. My questions: 1)Doesn't the computer have protection built in to protect against transients, and shouldn't it restore to a default state when powered up again? 2)If the Porsche tech needs to work a couple of hours to reset the computer when power fails, how do you deal with a dead battery out in the field? What is the local service guy supposed to do? 3) Does it sound reasonable that I caused the "faults" by reconnecting the battery, or is it possible that the car's computer (7 weeks old) has a problem itself?
Thanks...
1. is the dealership OBLIGATED to submit the checklist to Porsche before Porsche grants a CPO warranty (which this car has per the Porsche computers)?
2. is the dealership OBLIGATED to reveal this list to the customer and have the customer (me) sign at the bottom of the form where it says "Customer Signature and DAte" thus verifying that i purchased a car with either no mechanical faults or with faults that have been repaired as documented within the checklist (i was never shown the checklist and to this day the dealership "cannot find it")?
3. what recourse does a customer have when multiple repairs are to be done on the CPO vehicle if the dealership continues to do the work without submitting warranty claims to Porsche (this is, apparently, why i cannot pursue this case as a lemon law case against the manufacturer, or so i have been told by the lemon law attorneys that have been following this for me)?
i am at the end of my rope. i cannot tolerate anymore the non-answers and run around i get from porsche corporate asking who is somehow unable to tell me the answers to these questions. they have no one, apparently, that is in charge of verifying that the CPO checklists have been done before they grant CPO warranties, a fact that i have a hard time getting my mind around.
what i know is that i purchased a car with so many problems that indicate that no one did a CPO check on it before they sold me it and now i seem to have no other recourse but to sue the dealership over fraud, for selling me a multi-owner car (yet another issue that i won't go into hear..that the car fax they gave me was from 2004!) that was never CPO'd.
PLEASE. ANY HELP WOULD BE A BLESSING.
david
As I understand it, the dealership is not dismissing it's responsibilities to repair the car under the CPO warranty. Your concern is that the CPO warranty was issued on a car that had known problems and/or was never fully inspected properly. Given the history of the problems you have had and length of time the car has been out of service, I would think you should be entitled to some additional compensation. And if there was either fraud or convenient neglect on the part of the dealership, perhaps a buyback is justified.
As a side note, this is another reason I am skeptical of suspiciously low mileage vehicles. While this kind of incident could happen with any used car, for whatever reason or coincidence, I have heard of more very low mileage cars with "issues" than ones that have been driven regularly and have a well documented service history. A 5+ year old car with only 5,000 miles would have sent my red flags all the way up to the point I would have wanted complete documentation before buying. A little late for that now, but good luck in getting your problems resolved.
http://123car.com/lemon/lemonbystate.html
Someone should compensate you for the loss of use of the car due in large part to the pre-existing conditions. What is that worth? If you would be happy with the cost of the rental car, simply sue the dealer in small claims court. However, do bring a lawyer. The dealer already has one on retainer and their incremental cost to have him appear against you in court is zero. If you do go to small claims court and you are an MD (as I suspect by your screen name) work hard at trying to be humble that morning. Arrogance won't cut it.
At the same time, ask Porsche for an additional year on the CPO given the "irregularities" in the CPO. This extension might be very easily obtained (no money would be coming out of anyone's pocket) and would definetely be much more valuable to you on a now six year old turbo than reimbursement for a rental.
Good luck.
My 2007 C2S is arriving in about 7-10 days. I have been called by the dealer asking if I'd be interested in "trading up" to a 911 Turbo. It seems that a gentleman who has a Turbo coming in late October has decided he doesn't want to spend that much and wants a C2S instead. My C2S, to be exact, so that he doesn't have to wait another 2-3 months.
The deal would be that I could trade my C2S, which I had negotiated at $7,500 off MSRP, for a Turbo at $2,500 off MSRP. I'd lose $5k of my discount, but according to the dealer, I'd be the only person to buy a Turbo at any discount in the country. The Turbo is colored and configured the way I would like and will run about $40k more than the C2S. However, I am due for a one time bonus shortly that would make that additional amount pretty painless at this time.
Any 911 Turbo owners out there that can comment on the car? I have driven the 911S extensively and an old 996 Turbo a few times. I would not trade the additional power of the 996TT for the better interior, handling (IMO) and overall refinement of the 997S. Unfortunately, I have not found a 997 Turbo to test drive first, and I can't wait to decide until this one comes in.
All comments welcome.
My 2 cents.
Not too many cars can provide such power with the amazing traction to go with it. I suppose the TT is a stick? The tiptronics apparently are very hot right now as Porsche has under-estimated the demand.
The dealer is correct it is very rare to get a discount on a 997TT. I say go for the TT, if it has the options and color combination you like.
On the $40k upgrade or not question, I think that depends a lot on how much you would actually use the extra power. In my opinion, the new 997 Turbo is the best truly supercar value out there. If I'm not mistaken, it is essentially the same price or cheaper than a 996 Turbo S, with far better performance. But even if I had the extra money burning a hole in my pocket, I personally couldn't justify giving up a C2S Cab for the 911 Turbo. I press a button and the top is down, my kids are happy. I don't need advanced Skip Barber classes for that. If I was single, I might go the other way and get the 911TT (and Skip Barber).
P.S. Regarding Tip vs. 6-speed, I just read yet another review this month (R&T or Motor Trend) that tested both, side by side. Although the Tip was 0.1 seconds faster to 60 (3.3 vs. 3.4, I believe), the editors all preferred the 6-speed. Better downshifts, etc. This is consistent with the opinions of the lucky few I know that have driven both.
The only disadvantage of buying out of state or out of your area is the slight loss of goodwill you might have gained if and when you need service. But the local dealer I have taken my car to for a warranty repair seemed to treat me very well, in spite of not getting the initial sale.
"Is a 911s worth the 30k more over a 2007 Boxster S being 500/hp. I am selling my 2000 Boxster and it has been a great car."
I was seriously considering a Boxster S last fall. But I have a wife and two kids that all fit in the 911S. Instead of being just my personal fun car, the 911S is our "family car" with 9,700 miles as of its one year anniversary. Hard to put a price on that. Not sure what the 500 hp is referring to, other than a 911 Turbo, which is another $35k+ on top of a 911S Cab.
Does he give you a loaner?
I bought the Boxster in Florida, moved to Chicago and didn't notice any difference in service. With service at 20,000 miles there aren't many services to be performed unless you have a problem.