Porsche 911

habitat1 · October 2006

I missed the implied dollar sign in the $500 per horsepower difference between the Boxster S and Carerra S. But I don't think that's the metric for comparing the two models that I would recommend. They really are two very different cars, IMO, even if you don't use the back seats.

If I was going for a 2-seat roadster, the new 3.4 liter Boxster S would certainly be at the top of my list. But it might still be a little tough to justify over the $32k Honda S2000 that I bought in 2001. In terms of go-cart like handling, 9,000 rpm's and ease on the wallet, the Honda was tough to beat. But, there really wasn't anything out there that gave the 911 a run for it's money when I decided to go in that direction. Albeit a lot more money.

Good luck whatever you decide.

erichochman · October 2006

hello,

i have been looking for a porsche i can afford and think i may have found her.

i have seen a 2002 911 Carrera in Speed Yellow with lots of goodies. Bose, full leather, PSM, etc etc.
It only has 12,900 miles on it. They are asking $48,000 even. I thought wow...48 grand is not the end of the world, but before i sheel out that kind of money, I thought I could get some expert advice here.

Couple of questions.

1. 12,900 miles is almost brand new. Is it broken in yet? Can it and will it last trouble free to about 60k miles?

2. Am I overpaying for a 2002 model at 48 grand? ( I look at it as almost getting a new 911 FOR ONLY 48 GRAND)?

3. Is there any negative drawbacks from buying a 2002 model which is soon to be 5 years old as the 07's come out?

4. I know its preference, but it seems speed yellow is not very popular. IS this why its so reasonably priced?

Any other longwided thoghts you can share would be great. I thank you in advance.

Eric

habitat1 · October 2006

(1) "12,900 miles and almost brand new". That's more than enough miles to be broken in, but no guarantee that it was broken in properly. Do you have all of the service records and mileage logs? One thing I'd be concerned about is whether it has sat for extended periods of time (2+ months) without being driven. According to my dealer, this is another source of the infamous "rear main seal" leak. And that's NOT something you want to deal with out of warranty. Assuming the car has just been gently, but regularly used, I would think getting another 50k miles (or more) out of it should not be a problem.

(2) Overpaying? - I am not up to speed on used car values for the 911, so I can't really comment on the fairness of the $48k asking price. I don't think it sounds like a "steal" since, it is roughly 64% of the price of brand new base C2 (assume $75k +/- after discounts) and even more of its original price. That's not much depreciation for a 5 year old car, but with only 12,900 miles and assuming it's in pristine condition, may be a fair deal.

(3) "Drawbacks on 2002 / 5 year old model?" If you are buying from a Porsche dealer, does it come with a certified warranty? This would be very valuable, I would think. In the event you are not buying from a Porsche dealer with a CPO warranty, I'd pay to have the car fully mechanically inspected by a Porsche dealer that you would use for service. You might want to consider a third party extended warranty. You shold probably replace the tires as well, if they are still original.

(4) "Speed Yellow" Speed Yellow remains one of my favorite colors, even though I didn't go through with a sale/trade of my Seal Grey earlier this year. If you like the color, that should be enough. There is no reason you should have any difficulty in resale down the road because of it.

Good luck.

ifpsken · October 2006

I picked my Turbo up last month (it was also a cancelled order) I waited a bit less than three months for the actual delivery. The only negative was that it was loaded with options I would not have chosen had I ordered it. I paid MSRP, when I attempted to get the price reduced the dealer offered me my $5,000 deposit back.

To make your decision ask yourself the reason you are electing to go Porsche. Why did you enjoy the 911S? What did you like or dislike about the Turbo you drove? Was it a manual or Tip? Is the 997 a manual or Tip? Do you like attention? The turbo will draw a lot of it.

Your comment "I would not trade the power of a 996TT for the ... of the 997S" The 997 Turbo has what you like, the refinement, and has more power (still has lag but much less).

$2,500 off MSRP does not sound like much but you WILL receive what no one else across the country is receiving. Check Autotrader, Cars, Ebay and any other internet sites and you will find the car is more often than NOT, sold for a premium. Manhattan Porsche (in the Autotrader.com) advertised 4 in stock. I visited them on Friday and was told they did at one time have 4 in stock but as of that day they had one left on the floor waiting to be picked up and was sold for $15,000 over MSRP.

Check Porsche.com and look at the inventory of 996 and 997s at various dealers East and West coast. They are not selling like last year. Read the Forum, many are receiving good discounts from MSRP on the 996s and 997s. You will NOT observe that on the Turbo!

My Comment.... You want a 997, do you want power, refinement, attention and would you feel ok having something many others would love to have????????? Read the reviews, in Excellence, Motor Trend, Auto Week, Automobile, Road & Track... they compare the Turbo to the non-Turbo.

Let me know what else I can tell you. I really do enjoy this car, the handling/power is unreal and it draws a lot of ENVIOUS eyes!!

redsoxgirl · October 2006

Thanks for your reply - and thanks to others who replied. I have extended my "drop dead" date to this Saturday for making the decision. I have also gotten a little better of a deal - $3,750 discount. The purchaser of the Turbo is willing to take my 911 C2S for half of my negotiated discount and the dealer is willing to apply the other half to the Turbo.

Both the C2S and Turbo are 6-speeds - my only preference. As far as "liking attention", that isn't a factor. I actually considered a pristine 2005 GT3, but between the Speed Yellow color and rear wing, it screamed "look at me" a little too much.

The main issue I am grappling with is the everyday driveability of the Turbo vs. the C2S. This will be my only car, replacing a Boxster S that came with me to Boston when I moved from Raleigh. I will have access to a friend's back up vehicle for the worst weather, but need to have a car that will be comfortable to drive 8-10k miles a year. The 997 C2S would fit that bill for me. The 996 Turbo, with it's rougher non-adjustable ride, stiff clutch, etc., would not. I view the 996 Turbo as more of a weekend/track car.

So if you don't mind, please describe how you use your Turbo and how it drives compared to the 911S or 996 Turbo (if you can compare). Is it a 6-speed? Is there noticable turbo lag at low RPM's in around town driving? Would you feel comfortable putting up to 10k miles a year on it and driving it daily?

FWIW, my brother (former Porsche racing team member) is encouraging me to go for the Turbo. He got me into the Porsche Performance Driving School a few years ago and claims that I would be one of a handful of drivers, male or female, that could actually use more than 50% of the capabilities of the car. But I think the same could be said of the C2S.

If the daily driving capability of the 997 Turbo is as "friendly" as the C2S, I'll go for it. Unfortunately, I may not to get that answer first hand between now and Saturday. My dealer is trying to hook me with a previous buyer.

erichochman · October 2006

THANKS VERY MUCH! VERY MUCH APPRECIATED...

ERIC

w210 · October 2006

One problem with the 997TT as the only car is the small trunk.

I was a little annoyed I couldn't fit my wooden crate of wine (12 bottles) and had to dump it in the passenger side footwell.

The AWD (TT and C4) 911s have a smaller trunk due to the AWD mechanism.

Other than that, very user-friendly and I like the turbos being a little quieter than the regular C2/4s.

Go for it.

ceperry · October 2006

Hi, all -

My husband and I are looking at a new 2006 Carrera 4S, MSRP 100,640. We are ready to buy, but not in any particular rush. Basically we're looking at 2006 models in order to see what sort of discounts can be had now that the 2007s are coming in. (We're looking for a 4-year lease, so not concerned about resale implications of a model year-older car.)

In our area (sf bay area, california), there do seem to be some dealers discounting 2006 C2 and c2S models quite a bit. We've heard 8-10k off is not impossible to get. The catch is, of course, that there aren't many '06s left, and most of them are cabriolets, whereas we want a coupe.

Can anyone give me an idea of what type of discount to expect on an '06 C4S windowing at $10,640 (options it has are sport exhaust (I thought it sounded dumb, but now that I heard it I've got to have it!), sport design wheels, thicker sport steering wheel, sport shifter, nav, sport chrono pkg, lettered floor mats, power seats, Bose premium sound). Any idea how much profit is in there for the dealer? Would it be reasonable to think we might get $12k off?

Any insights are greatly appreciated!

Christina

ifpsken · October 2006

I do not drive mine daily, but I think the comfort is very good for a sports car and may drive it much more frequently in the near future, my daily driver is a large luxury sedan. A friend has a 996 Turbo, drives it daily and has not experienced any reliability concerns.

I do not use the the Sport Mode when my wife is in the car but use it quite often when alone. I agree with W210, the luggage area is quite minimal, especially when compared to the C2S, luggage would have to be placed on the passenger side or on the jump seat behind. I also believe the C2S has a larger gas tank.

My guess is that the Turbo would be as "friendly" as the C2S, it may be a bit lower in front (I have scraped my lower front spoiler a few times exit/entry to store driveways and have already ordered another spoiler). Yes, you will experience turbo lag at low rpm in around town driving, it is less than the 996 but it is still there. the drive comparison was similar to the 996 (comfort), mine is a Tip and the difference between the two lie mostly with that difference. The Tip handles the low speed Turbo boost much easier than the quick shift requirement from first to second in the manual.

I probably will put close to 10,000 miles on it this year, but it will be all pleasure driving, not to and from work.

markgc4s · October 2006

Can anyone recommend a rear child's car seat for a 2006 C4S? I have a 2 yr old boy who would love to take a ride in daddy's 997, but I have been unlucky in finding a car seat that can fit in the rear seat. Anyone have any recommendations? Much appreciated.

habitat1 · October 2006

ifpsken,

I'm curious - does your 997 Turbo ride as harshly as your friends 996 Turbo? I have a friend who turned in his 996 turbo off lease and got a 997 C2S. He let me drive it a few times before he parted with it and the big differences compared to my C2S Cab that I found were:

(1) his 996 Turbo had a very stiff sport suspension that was not adjustable. Even with it's 18" wheels, it was at least as harsh - or harsher - than my 997 C2S with 19" wheels with the PASM set on "sport". The 996 actually felt like it had slightly more body roll, but every little bump that the wheels hit rattled my fillings. By contrast, my 997 set on normal PASM mode, handles our local streets quite well. I assume the 997 Turbo has the same PASM as the 997 C2S and allows you to toggle between normal and sport suspension settings?

(2) his 996 Turbo clutch (aftermarket) was very hard to modulate. Even after several sessions with the car, I'd occassionally stall at start up and would do the herky jerky between 1st and 2nd almost every time. I'm sure I'd eventually get used to it, but it was pretty embarassing. I guess you can't compare, since you have a Tiptronic, but I hope the 997 Turbo clutch is similar to the C2S.

My friend had his 996 turbo modified with a chip, special exhaust, clutch and other engine parts such that it put out 520+ horsepower and 520 ft lbs at the wheels. At 62, he took it to a track event and ran an 11.4+/- second quarter mile. The first time I rode in it, I actually felt pressure on my eyeballs after he floored it on an empty stretch of road. It was scary fast, but not very much fun to drive around town at subsonic speeds over imperfect roads.

So how much of a dent have you put in your 10,000 miles per year of pleasure driving so far?

w210 · October 2006

My understanding is that the Sunshine Kids:

http://skjp.com/products/index.php?v=cat&cid=5&name=Car%20Seats

should fit in the back, as it is one of the narrowest baby seat made.

When your kid is over 30lbs, you can move to a booster seat, the Briax Parkway seems to work:

http://www.britaxusa.net/products/360_parkway.aspx

The Britax Parkway is easier to install and remove being a booster seat, but then, the Sunshine Kids seat should be safer being a convertible seat with a 5-point seatbelt.

w210 · October 2006

I have also scratched the lower spoiler a few times even at very low speed. Two things:

1. I would definitely not paint it (Porsche left it unpainted for very good reasons), nor would I lower the car.

2. I won't even bother replacing it it's bound to happen again! Luckily my scratches are cosmetic only at the bottom (you can only feel them if you run your fingers under the spoiler).

ifpsken · October 2006

I do not believe my Turbo rides as harsh. Obviously, with the suspension set to Sport it is harsh. I have not driven a C2S, so cannot compare, and when I drove the C4S it was only for a short distance, but the Turbo does not feel harsher or smoother than the C4S. Yes, the PASM was standard, but I do not know if it is the same. I would assume it is the same though.

I did not have a problem w/start up driving the 996TT manual, my problem was watching for red line, floored in first gear. It came upon me in what seemed like a fraction of a second and I hit the rev limiter! I will more than likely do the same as your friend (chip & exhaust).

I have owned it 5 weeks now, have 643 miles (I have been out of town too often this past month) and will probably take it out tonight for 50-75 miles. We have a canyon road, in our locale, that is quite fun.

To W210, I placed a new front spoiler on order, was told $200. Mine is also scratched on the bottom and I believe I will have to replace it sometime soon.

markgc4s · October 2006

Thanks for the info!! I am going to order the sunshine kids product today. Keeping my fingers crossed.

spiritinthesky · October 2006

"I did not have a problem w/start up driving the 996TT manual, my problem was watching for red line, floored in first gear. It came upon me in what seemed like a fraction of a second and I hit the rev limiter!"

Interesting and appropriate observation. When I had the opportunity to test drive both the Tip and 6-speed in Germany, I was pleased to see that they slightly raised the redline on the 997 Turbo (6,500 +/-?). It's still pretty easy to bump into the rev limiter, but the 997 is a little better than the 996.

On the other hand, for those that REALLY like to row their own gears, I think the new GT3 would be a hoot to drive with it's 8,400 rpm redline. Not to mention that the lighter weight and RWD setup would produce better handling characteristics than the 450+ lb heavier Turbo. I'm a die hard manual driver myself, but not so die hard as to want a track car as a daily driver. Hard to call the TT a compromise, but in that respect, it is the right mix for me.

habitat1 · October 2006

Well, if no one else with a 997 wants to take this post, I will.

I'm laid up for a few days with a reconstructed ACL yesterday. No fun in the 911 for a week or two, I suspect. To add insult to injury, I turned on the History Channel this morning to find a 1 hour special on the history of Porsche. If you haven't seen it, check your local listings - I think they replay it every couple of months.

Unfortunately, it's a little dated and stops with the evolution of the 993 model in 1995. But it was great to see the beginnings with the 356 and 40 years of evolution and tradition. I would never flaunt it to my non-Porsche friends, but it made me proud to be part of a unique "family".

Anyone here know where the term "Carrera" came from?

purplem46 · October 2006

Named after the Carrera Panamerica race in Mexico. I think the 550 won it in the fifties.

amhjms · October 2006

I've got a 2000 Boxster (base) that I've had for nearly four years now. It have been a dream (it is a daily driver) and I'm becoming convinced that I'll always want a Porsche in the garage. At some point I hope to be in the position to upgrade and after seeing a video of the new GT3 I'm wondering whether or not I should consider a GT3 (I'm not interested in the Turbo, especially for the money). Anyway, my questions are (1) would a GT3 (a 997 model) be a practical daily driver - i.e. could I reasonably expect the same incredible reliability I've experienced with my Boxster and (2) depreciation - what could I expect on a GT3 with this regard? Looking at eBay it seems like GT3s hold their value very well in comparison to most "less-special" (is there such a thing for a Porsche) Porsche models. While a GT3 is quite very expensive (or it would be for me) to purchase, even a nicely packaged 911 2S/ 4S could reach $90 - 95+, and therefore it seems if a GT3 holds its value better, it actually might be a good alternative and not that much more costly in the long run. Reliability seems tough to judge based on the small production volumes of GT3s, but I curious if others have hear or experienced something they could pass along. If seems like more people would have figured this out, so I'm guessing I'm missing something (this seems like a bit of arbitrage) but am not quite sure what.

Anyway, I'm a person who likes to plan things way in advance so would appreciate any thoughts from others as I think about this over, save up money and work on angles to play on my wife (who still thinks I'm a fool to be so in love with cars). Happy driving to all!

habitat1 · October 2006

I'm anxious to try out the 997 GT3 myself, but one specific factor will kill any deal for me - it's a 2 seater. My duaghters riding in the back of our C2S Cab has been a big factor in my overall enjoymnet of the car and justification of its price tag.

Whether or not the 997 GT3 would work as a daily driver will, IMO, be a highly subjective, individual judgement. I had a 2002 Honda S2000 that was heavily debated as to whether or not it was suited for daily driving. Noise was the biggest issue, followed closely by ride harshness. I found most complaints against the S2000 to be coming from those that didn't really appreciate sports cars anyway. But spending $100k+ on a 997 would be upping the ante quite a bit over your former Boxster, so I suggest you make a plan to extensively test drive one before making the plunge.

One thing you might try is test driving a used 996 GT3. I think it would be safe to say that if you were comfortable with that as a potential daily driver, the 997 will be an improvement. Not sure if the GT3 will have the adjustable PASM, but assuming it does, that alone would make it easier to own as a daily driver compared to the 996. I haven't heard much either way about the dependability or durability of GT3's - other than that they were apparantly exempt form the rear main seal (RMS) leaks that affected stnadard 911's. The only GT3's I've looked at seem to have too few miles to draw any long term conclusions.

I agree with spiritinthesky - if you like to row your own, an 8,400 rpm redline is second only to my former 9,000 rpm S2000 in giving you room to play. With a lot more power.

nyccarguy · October 2006

Is Spanish for race

fedlawman · October 2006

I can't imagine owning a GT3 and using it as a daily driver. I would love to have one - for weekends and DE's only.

I haven't driven a Porsche in almost 20 years, so I went and tested a 911 Cabriolet and Cayman S last weekend.

The room in the back seat of the 997 impressed me (Habitat1, I take back everything I ever said about you abusing your kids), but unfortunately, the dealer didn't have any 911 hard-tops in stock (!?!?) so I didn't get the undiluted 911 experience I was looking for.

OTOH, the Cayman S stunned me with it's poise and performance, and I think it would be a significant step up from the Boxster you're currently driving.

I say before you drop six-figures on a GT3 you'll likely never push to it's limits, drive the Cayman S.

amhjms · October 2006

Thanks for the feedback to my GT3 questions. I was speculating that feedback on using as a daily driver would surround ride, etc. I actually have three young kids as well, but surprisingly having the Boxster has never really been an issue for us. That said, if I do consider going w/ a GT3 I'll look into whether I could get one made with the back seat (making it that much more unique, although perhaps in a bad way!)

The car would be used in Oregon where the roads are generally smooth. However, as the weather is lousy I was considering having another car for daily driving, perhaps a GT3 would make this an even more attractive/ important solution.

I've thought of the Cayman, but I've been so happy with the Boxster that I think I'll either go 911 (really my dream) or get another Boxster.

Anyway, while I am American, I'm actually living in Amsterdam right now so hope to get to Stuttgart in the next few months and maybe I can talk through my dilemma with someone there for insights, as well as inquire about custom building alternatives.

Thanks again for the help, and if anyone has insight on GT3 reliability I'd still appreciate hearing about that.

Best to all and long live Porsche!

habitat1 · October 2006

"Named after the Carrera Panamerica race in Mexico. I think the 550 won it in the fifties."

You win.

I guess that also tells us where the Panamera comes from as well.

fedlawman · October 2006

I don't think reliability would be an issue compared to any other European sports car, but I suspect maintenance and parts would cost quite a bit more than your "run-of-the-mill" Porsche. Expect to pay considerably more for brake pads/rotors, tires, plugs, filters, etc. Labor will also likely be more involved and expensive after warranty.

As for the custom back seat idea, I think it would be difficult with the factory roll cage thats in there...

I live in Seattle, so if you do end up with the GT3, please come out to some local club driving events (PIR, PR, SRP) and let me check it out (I guarantee you'll be the center of attention)!

msabba · October 2006

Did you ever decide between the C2S and the Turbo? Nothing like living vicariously via this forum.

redsoxgirl · October 2006

Did you ever decide between the C2S and the Turbo?

Sorry for keeping you in suspense. And the answer is.....C2S..... with a large dose of frustration for the dealer having wasted my time.

I had pretty much decided on the Turbo, but was getting nervous about the delivery date slipping (now mid November). I asked the sales manager to see the actual order documentation / verification from Porsche. As it turned out, the incoming Turbo does NOT have the optional sport chrono / overboost option. I had asked that specific question at least twice when we were going over the options. Shame on me for not figuring out that the MSRP I was being quoted was about $2,000 too low.

But no real regrets. I still hadn't convinced myself that the Turbo would be a good daily driver. And, after complaining to the general manager about the stupid mix up, he knocked another $1,000 off my car. Which should be in this Friday (yes, the 13th).

P.S. Can someone tell me what would possess someone paying roughly $45k more for a Turbo over a C2S to NOT check the $1,840 sport chrono that provides overboost from 460 to 505 ft lbs of torque? Not to mention faster throttle response and firmer braking. That's unbelievable.

w210 · October 2006

It will be a sin to order a turbo without the sports chrono so you made a good move walking away.

porschetarga4s · October 2006

You aren't going to get a spare tire in a 911 because there isn't anyplace to put one. Period. And have you priced the run-flat tires you'd like Porsche to use instead? $$$$ and you have to have rims that are designed to use them so they don't fall off or shred.

porschetarga4s · October 2006

You're not trying to claim that an old 914 or 911 can hold a candle to the engineering in a new 997 are you? Besides, if you really want to carry a full size spare, you can always put the thing in the front trunk of a 997 and not carry luggage there.

kyfdx · October 2006

pathdoc isn't likely to reply... He posted that message about two years ago...

porschetarga4s · October 2006

I have just been through the process of ordering a 997 Targa 4S. The car has a base price of $95,900. With a ton of options (including custom paint, full leather, and all of the dark wood [Makassar] options, as well as 20 others on the extensive list) the price became $125k plus tax and license. The dealer [Beechmont Porsche in Cincinnati, OH] gave me a $5,000. discount and split the cost of enclosed trailer transport to California. If you need to buy a Porsche, I highly recommend Bruce Harnish. Don in Folsom, CA

spiritinthesky · October 2006

redsoxgirl,

I agree with W210, you did the right thing on passing on a Turbo w/o sport-chrono. I asked my dealer about it and he said he was unaware of any Turbos that had come in without that option in his entire region (Northeast). My dealer would not order a Turbo without sport chrono without at least a $10k non-refundable deposit. It will be hell to re-sell if the orignial buyer walks.

porschetarga4s,

It sounds like you've ordered quite a car. But I hate to burst your bubble, that is not a very good discount. There is at least a 13% dealer mark-up on the car and options. My dealer indicated that he would give an 8% discount on such a car, which would work out to $10k. If you are so inclined, ask Don at Bruce Hornish to give you a better deal. With all of the options you are loading up on that car, you deserve it.

Also, just curious, why $125k for a Targa 4S when you can get a Turbo for $130k-135k?? Even the future Turbo Cab should only come in at around $140-145k

blckislandguy · October 2006

Porschetarga4S,

ditto on the comment on the "discount" and double ditto on the questions

ifpsken · October 2006

Habitat: I put a fair amount of miles on the TT this weekend, it is now up to 850 miles. During my lengthy drive on Sat I switched a few times between sport and comfort for the sole purpose of trying to compare the comfort of the 997tt vs the 996tt. At the default comfort setting, the ride is definitely more comfortable than the 996tt, in Sport it is definitely more firm/harsh than the 996tt. It would be a very acceptable daily driver with regard to comfort.

Redsox girl: Congratulations on your decision! Even though the Sport Chrono was not an option, I believe that you would have thoroughly enjoyed the power of the TT. But as an only car, I believe the storage limitation would have been a sore subject for your ownership period.

I, for the first time, jumped on it, from a standstill 1st and second gear, shifting out of 1st at about 5700rpm on Sat and..... WHAT A THRILL!!!! Obviously, I have never experienced this kind of power before so it was quite exhilarating! Perhaps I should try Willow Springs after the break-in!?!

erichochman · October 2006

hi,

i am still in the hunt for my dream car. i was thinking of stepping up into a 2001 911 Turbo with very low miles.

questions

1. its a non porsche dealer. (they sell exotics and have been around forever, but nonetheless, not an authorized dealer. is there a drawback to buying an expensive car like this?

2. how dependable were the 2001 Turbos? did they also have the rms leak?

3. the price is $74,000.00 even and it only has 9000 miles on it. is this a fair price?

4. is the maintenence much much higher on a turbo than a non-turbo or about the same ie oil change, tuneup?

any other thoughts about the 2001 turbo would be helpful.

thanks very much

eric

habitat1 · October 2006

1. My frined who traded in his leased 2001 Turbo on a 2006 C2S said it was resold by the dealer for $73k+/- with a 4 year/100k total CPO Warranty. It had 11,000 miles, with factory and certified upgrades that took it to 520hp/520 ft-lbs. The CPO warrantly would be worth a lot to me. What can/will the selling dealer provide?

2. Turbos, as far as I have been able to research, do NOT have the RMS leak issue, nor do GT3's.

3. Not sure on the price, since I never shopped for one. But I would point out that a brand new well equiped 2006/7 C2S could be purchased for about $80-$85k and would be almost as quick as a stock (non "S" / X51) 2001 Turbo. That would be a reality check for me, even though I would concede the Turbo is more unique. It has also been speculated that used 996 Turbo prices are falling due to the availability of the 997 Turbo and its significant improvements at a relatively competitive price to what the last 996's Turbo S's sold for. That prbably doesn't have as much of an impact on a 2001.

4. No idea on the maintenance.

5. Other - I would ask for full documentation (annual/routine maintenance, mileage logs, etc). I apologize for sounding like a broken record, but since I have 10,000 miles on my 1 year old 911, I remain cautiously suspiscious of cars that have only been driven 9,000 miles in 5-6 years. And, if you get very serious, I'd have a Porsche mechanic do a complete inspection.

gottschalk · October 2006

I agree. Even though I am a huge turbo fan and currently have a deposit on a 997TT, I would rather have a new 997S anyday than a 2001 Turbo. As stated the performance difference is not that great and I think the new interiors are much improved. I like the fact that I would have a full factory warranty. Just my 2cents. Good luck.

gottschalk · October 2006

Never heard of a backseat in a GT3. No roll cage in US models I am told. I think you should consider a 997. The 2007 models are going for around 5% off MSRP and the new 06 models are going for 10-11% off MSRP. Great deals. If you plan on doing alot of track time that maybe the GT3 is for you. I agree with the post that you should test a used GT3 for a sense of what ownership may be like. Cheers.

erichochman · October 2006

Thanks very much. It was a big help!

Have a nice weekend.

Eric

newbe3 · October 2006

I am in the market for a 911 carrers S coupe no one will give back on the price , you suggest don in folsom ? i am in so-cal.. will he barter on price? if so give me his number please

spiritinthesky · October 2006

I'm not sure of the state of the market in southern California, but a former business partner got $7,000 off on a Cayman S in the San Francisco area a couple of months ago and could have gotten a similar deal on a 911.

Given the wide variety of colors and optional equipment, you should do an internet search of all California dealer inventories and find cars that you would be interested in. Then contact the dealers by phone or in person with the price you are willing to pay.

I guess from your name that you are a "newbie" to Porsche. Don't act like one. Do your research in advance, know what you are willing to pay, find an in-stock car through the Porsche web site and cut a deal if you can. Move on to another dealer if you can't. But any initial conversation with a Porsche dealer that you start with a general "do you barter on price" is likely to get a cold shoulder. Especially if you are in your 20's and drove in with a Toyota. Or just don't appear or act credible in general.

Good luck and don't get hell bent on staying in California if the dealers are not competitive. My dealer ships 4-5 cars to California every year from Pittsburgh. From what I saw of the previous deal from Folsom, it was no deal. And that poster never returned to explain what drugs he was taking to get a 911C4S up to $125k. Roll your sleeves up and get cracking - there are decent deals out there that you can do yourself, if you really are serious.

dweiser · October 2006

Just f.y.i.
http://www.motortrend.com/future/spied/112_0607_porsche_911_gt3_panamera/index.h- tml

newbe3 · October 2006

sounds good. seems easier said than done all i want is a seal gray 911 s coupe with nav. got quoted 86,400 out the door here in so cal. and just have to order it....but will anyone deal?? not sure how to surf cal. web sites. Also porsche sales people treat you like s_i_. You would think spending lots of green would mean something..any way thanks for the info.

newbe3 · October 2006

where in the bay area did he get the car

habitat1 · October 2006

"not sure how to surf cal. web sites. Also porsche sales people treat you like s_i_."

Go to Porsche Homepage title. Go to USA under the North American tab and a screen will pop up that allows you to "Find a Dealer". Type in your zip (or another one for another area) and "300 miles" and presto, you have a complete list. You can click on each dealer's site and check out 911 inventories. Porsche couldn't make it much easier - I can't do that for an Acura.

Second, if you find a dealer that has listed a car you want, call the sales manager directly. And, I agree with spiritinthesky, know what you want to pay in advance so you can cut a deal quickly and with authority.

Lastly, as I am sure you are aware, the 911 option list is a mile long. My 2005 911S Cab had $13k worth of options. But given that I got a $10k discount, it worked out better than a $5k discount on exactly the car I wanted. Be prepared to take some options you might not have ordered to get the best deal on an in-stock car. And don't get a 911S without the $920 sport chrono package. If you need to ask why, you need to do a few more test drives with that "sport" button turned on.

newbe3 · October 2006

so the answer to get a deal is dont order .deal with what they have on the lot.???thanks for the insight on the chrono pkg.does it really make a big diff. ? and how does the option exhaust work / does it add more H.P. did you get the color u wanted ??..I really appreciate the replys and info. shared keep it coming THANKS

tomtomtom · October 2006

when you order, you are ordering 2007 model. You WILL receive discount (5%?)but just not as deep as those 2006 that have be sitting in the lot. If this is your first Porsche, you should order one exactly the way you want it. You don't want to settle for something less to save $5K on a $90K car.

habitat1 · October 2006

I bought a brand new 2005 997S Cab when the 2006's were on the way. Compared to ordering a 2006 exactly the way I wanted it, I saved an additional $5k in discount ($10k vs. 5k) and avoided a $2,400 in price increase. So, even though I might not have ordered $4k worth of options, I essentially got them for free and then some by taking a car off the dealer lot. I was only interested in Seal Grey / Black at the time, which I got.

The Porsche sport exhaust does not officially add any horsepower, but it, along with the sport chrono, give the feeling that they do. The sport exhaust is $2,400 and not on a high percentage of cars. The sport chrono is $920 and on about 2/3 or more of the "S" models, as best I can tell. If you are asking these questions, it sounds like you haven't even test driven the car?? Not a wise move on any car, let alone a $80-90k+ 911.

newbe3 · October 2006

i will get 5% off ?? good point taken thanks

Porsche 911

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