Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
2009 Nissan Skyline GT-R
This discussion has been closed.
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
-mike
I'll agree with this correct reply, but remember. The Corvette Z06 nearly broke a performance record on Top Gear, yet its front/mid engine layout means there's going to be a handling penalty. For this reason, the Porsche GT3 generally beats the Corvette Z06 in comparison tests among automotive journalists, even though the Vette slaughters the 911 in performance.
THe GT-R shall suffer the same fate; even worse, than the Corvette Z06. Why? Because, like the Z06, the GT-R has the weight up front (because that's where the engine is), hindering road feel and general handling.
And its porky, 3,800 curb weight will most certainly make the car lose to the Corvette and most other near-exotics, unless it's compared against the Ferrari GT cars (in which case the Nissan GT-R should win easily since Ferrari GT cars aren't that special or competent)
I'm sorry it has to be this way but that's what happens when the manufacturer decides on a front-engine configuration.
The benefit to front-engine placement over rear or mid-engine placement is a concentrated polar moment located at and near the front wheels, lending to high-cornering stability over mid-engine cars like the GT3 and F430.
Just curious as I'm not real adept on the nomenclature of a mid-engine car, I guess cause the z06 engine is behind the front axle.
-mike
The GTR has been compared to the 911T and one writer has said the GTR feels more planted. I am a bit concerned about the weight and steering feel which has not been elaborated upon yet. If the GTR's steering feel is better than the fuged E92 M3's, the GTR wil be a good choice for me and I bet many many others.
Joseph
Think about it. By your admission, a rear-engine car is one where the engine is placed behind the rear axle, and a mid-engine car is one where the engine is placed in front of the rear axle.
Both definitions are correct.
It stands to reason, therefore, that a car where the engine is in front of the front axle is a front-engine car, and a car where the engine is behind the front axle is a mid-engine car.
The Corvette has its engine located behind the front axle. By definition, then, the Corvette is a mid-engine car.
The Z06 is a mid-engine, near-exotic.
The Corvette is considered a front/mid-engine and the Porsche Cayman or Acura NSX is considered a rear/mid engine.
Both are mid-engine cars.
Hope that helps!
THe GT-R, being a front-engined car that weighs a ton, in no way, shape or form can out-handle anything with a rear-weight bias unless tires were so selected to reduce polar adhesion.
It's no difficult task to make a car that handles better than the E90 M3 unless we're talking about luxury cars...
-mike
I wish I could find the article to post, but I know this can't be true because the GT-R has already found its way into 5th or 6th fastest production car in history around the nurburgring, and they say they aren't done trying to climb even higher in the ranks.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Wasn't teh article in Road and Track?
In any case, I will not dispute your claim here; the GT-R should run near 7's at the 'ring. But performance around this road course and superlative handling characteristics are two different animals altogether. We have already learned that the Z06 wins awards for its track and road coarse performance, but falls (just a little bit) short in handling when compared to the rear-biased supercars (F430, etc) due to front-mid engine configuration.
THe GT-R with the rubber that will generate a high 'ring finish will certainly also guarantee twichier handling (EMT tires will be the handling downfall for this car just as it was for the Z06).
...Do NOT expect first-place finishes for this car (GT-R) in upcoming comparisons against the rear-mid competitors (F430, rear 911, etc.). Again, it will be aptly and appropriately compared against the Corvette Z06; this is not a battle of idealogues.
From what I'm reading, Nissan steelerships are drooling and foamming at the mouth at their chance to rip sucker enthusiasts off. If true, it would make the 69k price a gimmick. :mad:
Joseph
San Diego
One aspect that no one has addressed is service. This vehicle is a very complex car with expensive technology bits everywhere. How many of you are going to put out the $70K price plus the $10k - $20 dealer ransom to actually own one. After spending that much how confident will you be to have the tech at the Nissan dealer service your pride and joy. This isn't the Maxima or Sentra they service everyday. You would be hard pressed to find some technology on this car that is similar to the rest of the product line from Nissan.
There is more to owning this car than what it's 0-60 time is or how much horsepower it has. I would be curious to know how many people plan to purchase this car for non-street use (racing).
-mike
If you now understand the issue within this post, reconsider your response.
-kind regards
On a side note I saw a Civic si Muguen today at a dealer (a co-worker was shopping there) and it had a $5,000 "market adjustment" over MSRP on it. I nearly had a cow!
-mike
However, I don't think a $70k Nissan is that big of a deal. I am just as wary of who I trust with my $1000 truck as I am my $40k truck. If I trust them, I trust them. It probably also helps that I have served as a mechanic, and I and everyone I've worked with took just as much care when working on a box truck with a Chevy 350 as we did when working on a $120K Kenworth.
Just because a service department serves Starbucks in their lounge, does not mean they have better mechanics in their bay.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
-mike
The Phaeton isn't a good comparison because it was competing with Audi. If Infiniti offered their own GTR at a slight price bump, THEN there would be a problem.
And, by the by, I respect Nissan a great deal for sticking with heritage and NOT rebadging the GTR.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
-mike
$40k for a 911 and corvette beater? I don't think so.
If you mean a "lesser" version for $40k ... well, yeah, I'm sure it could do well.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
-mike
Question, How many customers are out there for this car? And how many of them actually have the means to purchase this car.
i just don't see how. It would have to cut corners somewhere. You would have to get something like Dodge Neon build quality to post performance on par with the GTR and keep it inexpensive.
How many new sub-4-sec cars are on the market right now for under $70k?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
We'll find out.
But, if I had to guess, I'd say 1500 this year, 1500 next year, and then maybe a dip to 1k-1200 the year after.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Look at the STi and EVO for example. The GTR is only slightly beyond them IMO. Heck look for the STi and EVO to be pushing close to 400hp in the next 2 years.
-mike
OK. Maybe not the best comparison since we're talking japanese vs japanese as opposed to european vs japanese, but i think you know what i mean.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
A lot of that money is gravy though, it's not all in the cost of Labor/materials/engineering on the high end cars. We'll see when it arrives though, just seems to be a quite "elite" car for the Nissan line is all and out of line with anything else they offer. If they are doing it simply for advertising purposes then yeah I guess it makes sense.
I'm more of a pedestrian car fan than of "exotics" cause I just can't see forking out $70k for a car.
-mike
I was really hoping the GTR would be mid $40s when I first heard the rumors. It would seem to make sense with the 350z topping out in the high 30s fully loaded. But, oh well. They decided to go for exotic bragging rights instead of volume sales.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'm just not sure of what their point is of the car, where does it fit in their lineup? etc.
-mike
Nissan can easilly clear this question up and sqash the nay sayers. Just state what conditions the car was in. Was it strictly a factory car, tires and all..or were there modifications. Also, they should be clear on whether or not they did the complete ring and not a cut down version. I hope this information will be disclosed officially.
Nissan should've been more careful and explicit about their 7:38 ring time declaration. Why they weren't is beyond me. Perhaps they want hype to build up? There may have been a backfire instead since there seems to be more negativity generated than positive praise. People already have dismissed the time as fake due to the uncertainty of the tires and conditions.
If anyone knows facts about the conditions..please point to official evidence...otherwise we'll just have to wait till independant third party testing is done. :sick:
Joseph
San Diego
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
They have one of those already...
It is called a 350Z.............
GP
No turbo.
No AWD.
Those are 2 big items for some of us.
-mike
It is called a 350Z
Exactly! thats the same thing im saying.
No turbo.
No AWD.
Those are 2 big items for some of us.
Name a car that offers simillar performance at a lower price.
The Z06 is the only car that comes close and that piece of junk is no match for the mighty GTR. It even costs more.
For many years I have wanted to buy a Skyline, preferably R34, and was 3-4 months from having the funds to do so when I heard about a new "skyline" coming out. After all I don't know any tuner's that don't respect the Skyline and it's ability to trash many cars with very little actual tuning. The stories are true this car can push 1000HP with only moderate levels of tuning. Now I don't know a whole lot about the EVO but I have owned an Impreza, and I have never heard of a 1000HP Impreza. Is that even possible? Now granted the Skyline and the GTR are two different cars but I would be suprised if the GTR can't hit 1000HP as well. Given the fact that Nissan knows the Skyline is many tuners dream car and many people are going to want to tune the GTR I would be suprised if Nissan didn't leave enough room under the hood so to speak to allow the tuner culture to do what they want with this car. After hearing about this new car I decided to hold off to see what it would be.
The new GTR smokes even the NISMO tuned version of the R34 and is beats the stock version of the R34 hands down. Whether the GTR will be able to out tune so to speak a skyline has yet to be seen obviously What this cars true potential is will not be known until someone buys one and tunes it. Being a long time supporter of the Skyline it was the second most gotta have it car on my list behind the Mclaren F1. Would sell my soul for one of those but that's a different thread.
That being said Nissan has sold me on the new GTR. I actually don't want a Skyline anymore. The GTR has replaced it on my list. Even if the car is marked up to $90,000 this is still a great buy as far as I am concened. It's going to cost me close to that to import a Skyline to the US and it's stock performance is far from the GTR's.
There are many examples of cars in this price range with similar performace. An 07 Ford Shelby Cobra GT500 was going for $70,000-$80,000 new so it's not like Nissan is out of the ballpark or anything. Heck a used one is going for $60,000+ on autotrader.com
Even if Nissan was using some sort of super slick tire for their run, to even be in the neighborhood of a 911 is a fantastic achievement. And even if the car is marked up it is still going to cost less the a 911 which is considered one of the gold standars for performance testing. Also two other things according to http://www.nordschleife.no/ it appears the 911 used slicks on it's timed run so is that argument even relevant? Also according to www.supercars.net/PitLane?viewThread=y&gID=3&fID=0&tID=10073&bottom=0 the z06 ranks even further behind the the GTR then the 911. Nordschleife is notorious for it's constant elevation changes and turns/chicans etc. If the GTR can post a better time obviously it handle better the a z06.
Go to the Nissan website and look up the specs on this car to find out what this thing actually has in it. The price tag is not all about the HP. Nissan has inclulded many new technologies into this car. In my opinion it truely is a model of modern ingenuity.
Let me know what you think.
The problem I have with the GTR is that it's not going to be a Tuner's Dream Car because at $70K + Dealer Markup, you aren't going to see a lot of them "tuned" at least not in the same way the tuner scene would normally do it.
The demographic for a $70k car is not the same as the WRX/Integra/etc. group.
-mike
....nuff said
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/supercars/nissan-gt-r-dyno-475hp-at-the-hubs/-
A few days ago we were talking about Nissan wanting to get the GT-R to an SAE-certified 480hp so it would match the Porsche 911 Turbo, one of its chief rivals. It looks like that should be an easy feat if the dyno numbers coming out of Japan today are solid - and it looks like they are. According to testing done on a Dynapack dynamometer, the new GT-R pumps 482PS (475hp) to all four hubs, with torque peaking at 580Nm (428lb-ft) at the hubs.
Assuming parasitic drivetrain losses around 15% - although the loss could be even larger given the GT-R’s all-wheel drive platform - that would put power at the crank around 550hp and 495lb-ft of torque - absolutely insane numbers for a 3.8L engine, twin-turbo or not. Suspicious? Head on over to NAGTROC, the North American GT-R Owners Club forums, where poster Chuck H has links to photographic evidence of the testing, complete with shots of the dyno screen.
While these numbers seem to fit more aptly with the GT-R’s 3800lb curb weight and its scorching ‘Ring times, it still seems odd that a car with a drag coefficient of 0.27 would top out at anything under 200mph with 550hp under the hood. Maybe there’s more to this story than meets the eye. We’ll keep you updated as things unfold.
Thanks to Jeff for the tip!
this is gonna be sickker
youtube.com/cubanwhite
Now, I know some people have addressed examples such as the 1990 NSX's price of $40k at it's release and how it kept edging up toward $100k each year due to either manufacturing costs or slowing sales. I for one liked the old NSX and all it's achievments, but it just didn't have enough horses to compete with exotics. I believe a manufacturer can sell a car such as the GT-R at $70k initally and can either lower or most likely raise that price slightly depending on demand or manufacturing cost. As long as the amount of performance you get matches what you're paying, you shouldn't lose too many customers. Shame on you NSX.
I believe Nissan themselves had prior experience with what I call "mis-targeted introductory pricing" when it came to the XTERRA SUV which was first introduced in 2000 (2000 Motortrend SUV of the Year) as a lesser Pathfinder. They wanted to price it in the $17k - $20k range aimed at the Gen-X demographic and the appropriate income. Sort of like Honda markets their Element. What ended up happening was all the active lifestyle 30 somethings with more money to spend were buying them left and right. Nissan's marketing and showrooms picked up on this and started raising the price to the $22k - $26k range without too much hassle. A so-called shift in pricing and demographic is possible, but with the supercar association attached to the GT-R, it seems it will be locked into that category no matter who buys it. On another note, I think "GT-R" sounds better than Skyline. If Nissan is really going for Porsche's spot then I can already see the car magazines with covers titled "911 vs GT-R" or "Viper eats GT-R dust".
If you still don't agree, just look at where Toyota is going with their up-coming Supra. A 5.0 liter V8 trying to push towards the 200mph mark. The price for that is currently rumored to be $50k aimed to compete against Corvette, BMW and the GT-R. I hope they do well, but for now I'd rather go with Nissan. I was shocked when they tested the acceleration and handling of the GT-R. I didn't know it was going to be that fast. They brought their A game and those engineers are not messing around with this car. Hopefully the U.S. version will have the same specs.
I think you and I know what an over priced car is. It seems like the Skyline is finally here in America and wants to win the "Why pay that much for a exotic?" award. Everyone can judge for themselves whether or not the numbers add up as they start showing up in the streets and tracks this year.
Thanks,
Tony Carl
-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host
An all-wheel drive car doesn't feel like a rear-wheel drive car. So I think it's a matter of preference when it comes to transmission. How do you know Nissan isn't coming out with a 6 speed manual for the GT-R in the next year or so?
As for an MT coming out next year, that would be great, but not likely or they would have launched it at the same time.
-mike
Motorsports and Modifications Host
It's hard to find a balance between a road car and a computer-controlled drive by wire machine. The trick is for a car manufacturer to be able to provide the best technology at the lowest price to the consumer.
Are you a Skyline fan?