Subaru B9 Tribeca (B9X)

subearu · February 2005

yep, I saw that too. I'll confirm in Milwaukee next week - the lighting is much better there usually.

-Brian

sweet_subie · February 2005

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/jedlicka.aspx?modelid=11527&src- =Home&pos=Edit3

Jeez,
1. Look at the fuel economy of X5 6Cly compared to Tribeca.

2. Look at those prices of all SUvs mentioned in the article,

I don;t see why Tribeca can't compete comfortably with 40k sticker on fully loaded which can be bought at invoice of 37-38k.

look at those high40s, 50s, 60s & 70k mentioned in the article

ateixeira · February 2005

In that price range prestige matters a lot, and Subaru can't match them there, at least not yet.

Remember, people balked when the VDC broke the $30k barrier. For the Tribeca to break the $40k barrier would be repeating that mistake.

-juice

varmint · February 2005

The slanted back end of the Tribeca kinda reminds me of the Nissan Quest. But I have to say, Subaru did a much better job with that part of the design.

I think Juice is right about the 40K mark. Heading north of that would have been more than the badge could support. If Acura had taken the new RL up above 50K, they'd have the same problem.

That said, this higher price does get Subaru's foot in the door. They can focus on the 30-35K models in the first run. The Tribeca may not sell any of the NAV + RES units in the first years, but Subaru can build on the first model and push the 40-45K mark with the next generation.

sweet_subie · February 2005

how can murano go close to 40k ? does Nissan carry presitge ?

I think Tribeca looks equally as good as pretigious brands.

sduford · February 2005

And I don't think the Murano is selling too well either. Now that the novelty has worn off and the people who thought it looked cool have bought one, the sales are plummeting fast.

Sly

cptplt · February 2005

sob, sob!!

I had them flash it specifically to check when I was at the Chicago show!

ateixeira · February 2005

I think a lot of the early models will come loaded up. That's just where the demand is in this segment. People want all the goodies.

Look at the Pilot LX. If you find one, that is, they're so rare. An on-line dealer I saw had 100 Pilots and 93 were EX or higher.

I think we'll see a similarly low rate of "base" models, by that I mean cloth 5 seaters. Maybe 10%, what they call ad cars. Dealers get one so they can advertise "starting at $29,999" street price.

Then we'll see a few more 5 seat Limiteds, but mostly 7 seaters. And among those, very few with cloth, is my guess.

I'm not saying 40% will have DVD and Nav, but I do think 40% will have at least one of those two.

-juice

alpha01 · February 2005

Sly, re: Murano- not sure where you're getting your numbers- maybe the story is different in Canada? The sales are definitely NOT plummeting fast in the US.

In the US, Jan 2005 saw Murano sales that were 44.4% better than Jan 2004 on a Sales Day adjusted basis.

http://www.nissannews.com

Click Corporate>Corporate News>'NNA Reports January Sales' Feb 1 2005

In terms of incentives, the current Murano offer (nationwide US) is 3.0% APR for up to 60 months. No Cash Back. Thats far less than what many others are offering, and similar to what Toyota is offering on the Highlander here in NJ ($750 Cash Back OR 2.9% to 48 Months, 3.9% to 60).

-Joe

sweet_subie · February 2005

in high 30s to 40 price range, subaru better offer free 3-4 year scheduled maintenance. or it better be much cheaper than others

ateixeira · February 2005

Outback LL Beans had 2 years' free maintenance for a while, but they discontinued that. So I'm not so sure.

I did bring that up to the Product Manager, and also perhaps a longer B2B warranty, perhaps to match Acura's 4/50. That would only be a small stretch.

He definitely had that on his mind, put it that way. I guess we'll see.

-juice

sweet_subie · February 2005

i think sub will cut corner here & make the price competitive. so, people won't have 40k sticker shock

steve o · February 2005

ok all here's the deal...glad to still see all the input and ideas on the 00X...oops b9. the only thing that bugs me is it looks like the same few ppl are on here,, we need to get more ppl looking at the B9..as i said before i work at SIA so i do have a very high interest in this new cross-over..Good new is next week i transfer over to the B9 line so now yall have a "guy on the inside"...lol....ill tell ya what i can,if i know or can tell ya ( no top secret stuff) as for the looks think it grows on ya..not as bad as it was at first would have done if a little diff...ive ran on long enough yall have a good one pass on the word ...ill be on fron time to time

kiefaber455 · February 2005

I've read future forecasts that Saab is planning a 9-6 and it's going to be built at the same plant as the Tribeca. If this is the case, how much different content wise and price wise can it be from the B9x? Makes me think it will not be much different than Saab rebadging a Trailblazer into a 9-7, some fancier parts that cost many more dollars.

wmquan · February 2005

I would expect that the 9-6X won't be a good value.

The B9 Tribeca is so content-rich that Saab won't be able to add too much to it. Look at the 9-2X and the 9-7X. The 9-2X is based on the pretty rich Impreza so Saab didn't do much more than nose job on it. The 9-7X is based on a much poorer GM vehicle so Saab actually did change more on it (e.g. they had to take some steps to improve the crashworthiness).

Since the B9 Tribeca won't need much improvement, we can probably expect a different front-end (which may be preferred by some who do not like the Tribeca's nose). Maybe a couple of more convenience features like memory seats, and different leather and materials. Some level of free scheduled maintenance, Saab warranty, etc. I wonder if they'd bother changing the dash to a Saab "cockpit" style one. I doubt it because the Tribeca's dash is great.

And then a price boost of several thousand dollars.

After it doesn't sell well, Saab will offer a lot of incentives to cut the price difference down somewhat.

ateixeira · February 2005

Krisshna: the LL Bean Outback was a strong value, in fact it was priced well below the VDC, which didn't get the free service.

So a low price and free service aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

steve: let us know when production actually ramps up so we have an idea of when they'll arrive in dealers.

-juice

varmint · February 2005

In addition to what William wrote, I expect that a likely upgrade for a Saabified Tribeca would the addition of a turbo to the H6. Of course, Subaru may be planning to do exactly the same thing, so the success of that plan would depend largely on how soon Saab could do it.

I'm not sure how much monkeying around Saab could do with the architecture, but deleting the optional 3rd row and making the body even more compact is another possibility.

stgreen · February 2005

Did a search within the board but found no answer...

Does anyone know if you will able to option out a Tribeca with Sat Radio - either XM or Sirius?

do any other Subaru's have sat radio as an option?

njswamplands · February 2005

i have flashlites and sat radio duct taped to my fxt roof. roof is a great place for options

once_for_all · February 2005

Steve, can you get me a Baja Tribeca on the drawing board? I can get a good SUV anywhere, but the only crossover truck that works for me is the Ridgeline.

You probably know my thoughts on the current gen Baja: great vehicle, I would own one but for the head in the roof.

John

ateixeira · February 2005

Saab has not yet done anything extra to a Subaru powertrain. In fact the 9-2x does not even get the STi engine.

I dunno, I don't think Saab has that much influence. We'll see.

-juice

varmint · February 2005

True. How far Saab can go will also be impacted by how much clout GM can bring to bear on the subject. I really have no idea what is possible on that front. I was just musing about the potential for Saabification, and how it could go further than merely a reskin and adding luxury content.

ateixeira · February 2005

The timing seems bad, Saab gets Subaru clones just as Subaru moves upscale.

It's a head-on collision. They both want to be in the same segment.

Had GM been involved earlier on, I could imagine Saab being the upscale Subaru, and Subies remaining more bare-bones. By that I mean thinner carpets and cheaper plastics along with less content.

But it's too late now, the Legacy and Tribeca are big departures from the old school Subies. To paraphrase Lucien out of context, they're "too nice" now.

9-2x was a sales disaster, they forecast 8000 and got about 2000. Why bother?

-juice

alpha01 · February 2005

Juice,

Amen.

Begs the question- exactly what WILL become of Saab?

~alpha

samiam_68 · February 2005

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid={41088636-9D1D- %2D46D7%2DB953%2D27B88CAB84FD%7D&dist=rss&siteid=mktw

richwood · February 2005

Well, it seems to have dried up, but I'll post a final comment on the positioning of LATCH and tether hooks, just to finish off that string (I did say I would post my findings after finally getting to the Toronto auto show).

The TRIBECA will NOT be re-defining or leading the segment in the use of extra LATCH positions as compared to the norm. In fact, I saw only 2 positions on the cut away model displayed in Toronto - and darn it all, they wouldn't even let you near the 2 actual models that were on pedestal displays. Argh!

So we're looking at 2 spots only, as per the industry norm, being the 2nd row outboard positions. It would appear tether hooks are all around, but that was never the point of this line of inquiry.

I do note the SIENNA has 4 seats with LATCH, but in using the two 3rd row spots, you eliminate the 3rd seating spot in said 3rd row. The Odyssey has only one LATCH spot in the 3rd row, giving it three spots in total.

And having now clamboured through FORD's, Nissan's (** the ARMADA had lots of space, but big $$), Toyota's and Chrysler's choices (be they minivans or SUV's), I gotta say that if you need SMALL kids (under 5) in a car, with an extra grandparent or two, a minivan will beat out the TRIBECA.

It's a 5+2 ladies and gentleman, and calling it a seven seater is a misnomer. The same can be said for the Highlander, Pilot, XC-90 and Pacifica though. You can't put a grandparent in the back, but perhaps some nimble youngsters can squeeze in.

Perhaps SUBIE will make me a minivan now...? Here's hoping...

rsholland · February 2005

How do you figure that? The link you just posted states the RX400h will MSRP for $48,535, which is $10K over the standard RX330.

So the RX330 starts at about where the B9 Tribeca peaks out at. I think the B9 will do just fine.

Bob

samiam_68 · February 2005

They already have 12,000 pre-order deposits. The car is not out for another month and a half.

rsholland · February 2005

I'm not saying it won't sell. I'm sure it will. What I'm saying it won't sell at the expense of the Tribeca, that's all. Most Tribeca shoppers are not looking for a $48+K vehicle.

Bob

samiam_68 · February 2005

That's 12,000 less potential Tribeca customers. And don't forget, the Highlander Hybrid is also coming out at the same time. Tribeca will sell at deep discounts. Maybe 4-5K below MSRP. Subaru will have to do what GM & Ford do to move inventory after the initial couple of months of novelty sales.
Too much competition in the premium SUV market and the Tribeca offers nothing over its competitors.
Unless, of course, they stick a hybrid powertrain in it.

subewannabe · February 2005

Crew, Ive been working way too hard and can't keep up with this and other threads. My '94 Explorer is sending me clear signals that it is ready to retire even if it doesnt have a fully-vested 401K plan...and pretty soon my gang is looking at a 2nd Forester XT ( what a great car!), a Legacy GT wagon, an OBXT vs OB VDC, a B9Tribeca or , horrors..a Highlander! Did I miss a post with allegedly reliable pricing or is that still months away?

Mark

varmint · March 2005

Since when has lackluster sales performance stopped GM? :-b

varmint · March 2005

The addition of Toyota's hybrids may spark returned interest in the Highlander, but I have to side with Bob on market competition. The hybrids themselves shouldn't be a big obstacle for the Tribeca.

"Too much competition in the premium SUV market and the Tribeca offers nothing over its competitors."

Not nothing. It's relatively inexpensive for a feature-laden vehicle. Otherwise I agree. Most of the B9's advantages are very small. And it's soon to face a new round of competition.

rsholland · March 2005

myself included, are a bit disappointed with the Tribeca as it currently stands. I suspect that Subaru has big plans for this model.

Historically Subaru rarely introduces an all-new model, with all new running gear, all in the same year. The last Subaru to do that was the SVX back in '91.

I expect to see the following on the Tribeca, perhaps starting with MY07:

 A turbo trim level
 A larger displacement H-6. It's well known that they have a 3.6 H-6 in the works.
 Detail content upgrades such as xenon headlights, auto up/down window switches, and so forth.

Subaru does this intentionally. If you play all your cards in one year, you quickly lose the attention of the press for subsequent years. So Subaruevery year"tweak" their model lineups, if for no other reason, to keep their name in the forefront with automotive news editors.

Also, Subaru knows that the MDX and a few others are up for a redesign soon. They want to see what these new cars offer, and then respond accordingly. It's nothing more than automotive leap-froging.

Bob

sweet_subie · March 2005

i completely agree. they do this a step at a time

WMarton · March 2005

Don't forget to add this one to the "to do" list:

- new front end. :-)

Bill

ateixeira · March 2005

Touchee! LOL

Hybrid Highlanders and the RX400H will sell at full MSRP for the foreseeable future, and Toyota's going to rake in the bucks, no doubt.

But hybrids are aiming for, what, 2% market share in the near-term? Don't forget the other 98%. Even long-term we're talking 90% non-hybrids.

They just get a disproportionate amount of attention (hype, even). 12,000 deposits is great, but they sell that many F150s on a bad Thursday.

The other thing is street prices. We know the hybrids will sell for a full $48k plus, while street prices for the Tribeca will put it at $29-35k or so.

I don't think even the Highlander hybrid will overlap with those prices, because they tend to load them up.

To be honest the RX330 will probably give up those sales, not the Tribeca. The RX will be sandwiched in the middle of the two trendier Toyota hybrids.

-juice

jon_in_ct · March 2005

From rsholland, "Subaru B9 Tribeca (B9X)" #2002, 1 Mar 2005 2:09 pm

Historically Subaru rarely introduces an all-new model, with all new running gear, all in the same year. The last Subaru to do that was the SVX back in '91.

I expect to see the following on the Tribeca, perhaps starting with MY07:

 A turbo trim level
 A larger displacement H-6. It's well known that they have a 3.6 H-6 in the works.
 Detail content upgrades such as xenon headlights, auto up/down window switches, and so forth

I can't figure out why you believe "it's well known that they have a 3.6 H-6 in the works." Maybe because it's often repeated by people who have no clue about what FHI is doing.

FHI can't increase the EZ30's 89.2-mm (3.51) bore because there's only 9.2-mm (0.36-in) of metal separating the cylinder bores. FHI could increase the EZ30's stroke, but that would require raising it from 80-mm (3.15-in) to 96-mm (3.78-in) to achieve a 3.6L displacement. But FHI's been so enamored with oversquare engines for so long, I just can't see them "stroking" the EZ30 up to 3.6L displacement.

What if FHI simply added two cylinders to the 2.5 engine, similar to what they did to create the EG33D engine for the SVX? That's a lot more expensive so FHI would want to keep the 2.5L's bore and stroke, resulting in a 3.7L 6-cylinder engine that could only be used in the B9 (or SVX) because it's so long.

I believe the twin turbo 6-cylinder engine in the B11S was a 3.0L. Its power was rated as 294kw (394hp). That'd probably be sufficient for the B9 to outperform most competitors.

rsholland · March 2005

 A larger displacement H-6. It's well known that they have a 3.6 H-6 in the works.

Ok, let me rephrase that:

 A larger displacement H-6. It's been rumored that they have a 3.6 H-6 in the works.

Bob

njswamplands · March 2005

i need to take a engine displacement 101 class. brenda you teach that?

varmint · March 2005

Technically, Subaru could increase the bore. I'm not saying they should, but they could.

Using a technique similar to Honda's quad-sequential sleeve design, they might get the the distance between bores below 9mm. Honda got it down to 6mm. There's no reason why Subaru couldn't invest in developing their own method, or pay to use the patents.

c_hunter · March 2005

I have no doubt the Tribeca will do fine. At a bare minimum, it's going to allow Subaru to keep all those customers that have been going to other brands to get more seatroom.

The Tribeca basically has all the goodness of the high-end Legacy/Outback models (which are selling very well) and adds new capabilities and features. It will probably sell for the standard invoice to MSRP range for Subarus, but I doubt we'll see incentives and deep discounts a la Ford/GM.

Craig

c_hunter · March 2005

According to the very early reports, Subaru insiders were calling the Tribeca a 5+2. So your observations are not surprising.

CRaig

trueawd · March 2005

As far as I've heard the next big engine for the Tibeca will be a Turbo 6 and yes most likely a twin.

This would give it between 350-400 horse and of course a pretty flat tourque curve. Means tq should be about the same as the horsepower. It is the engine from the B11. It would be light fast and hopefully it will be next year!!!

With all 4 wheels pinching the ground better then any other suv on the planet and the boxer..it should out perfrom them all...mabye turbo Cayanne would be one better..if that??

rsholland · March 2005

I'm sure Subaru is testing many different engines, many we will never hear about. The rumored 3.6 I mentioned earlier could be on an all new block, and not based on the current 3.0. I'm just speculating here...

BTW, I believe the 3.6 rumor originated not from nasioc, but from from one of the car magazines, some time ago. Which one, I don't remember?

As Jon mentioned, a 3.7 H-6 could be developed just by adding two more cylinders to the 2.5 H-4. That's certainly a possibility too.

3.7 H-6 based off the current 2.5 H-4: 2457cc + 1228.5cc = 3685.5cc.

Bob

ateixeira · March 2005

They could stroke it - remember the Tribeca's platform is wider, so it could accomodate a 3.3-3.6l or so engine based on the EZ30.

Or we could see some form of the EJ257 turbo, maybe with 280-300hp if Subaru wanted to keep it affordable.

An STi could get the H6 and a turbo, but that would put prices in the $40s, and then everyone would be screaming about the price.

I bet there are several design studies going on simulateously. The ST-X had a supercharged engine that never made it to production. So just because a certain engine is rumored, even factual, does not mean it will make production.

-juice

rsholland · March 2005

I bet there are several design studies going on simulateously. The ST-X had a supercharged engine that never made it to production.

Oh absolutely! I'm sure there are tons of engine studies going on that we will never hear about.

I don't think we'll see a H-4 of any kind in this vehicle.

Bob

varmint · March 2005

"...just because a certain engine is rumored, even factual, does not mean it will make production."

A very good point.

A whole new block would be expensive. And it would make the current H6 more or less redundant. Engine blocks should last at least 8-10 years on the market before being replaced. They need to amortize the costs. Building an engine that ends of up being replaced in a few years smacks of poor product development. I give Subaru more credit than that. I think it's far more likely they have another solution in mind.

rsholland · March 2005

And it would make the current H6 more or less redundant.

I don't agree with that. I think there's room for both engine blocks to exist.

I can see the 3.0 (small block) H6 in Legacys, Outbacks, and even Foresters. This engine was just redesigned last year, and I see a long future for it.

I can see 3.6/7 (large block) H6 in B9 and future larger Subarus, which most likely will be coming at some point.

Bob

ateixeira · March 2005

The EZ30 started production in 2001 IIRC, they just updated the tuning but its basically still the same design (bore, stroke, block, all the geometry).

The EJ series goes way back, but the turbos use a different block anyway.

-juice

Subaru B9 Tribeca (B9X)

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles