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Comments
So I definitely see the possibility have having two H6 engine families—especially as Subaru moves upmarket.
Varmint, are the 3.0 Accord V6 and the 3.5 Acura V6 built off the same engine block? I'm assuming the Acura 3.2 V6 is based on the Accord engine, but what about the 3.5?
Bob
I'm not sure about the smaller displacement engines in Japan.
The EJ series has been around for ages, ever since the 1.8l, 2.2l, and 2.5l have been around in the US.
-juice
The old 3.5RL had a different 3.5L, which was not based on the J series. It was actually a very old racing block they retuned for street use. But the thank-gawd-they-finally-did-it 2005 RL uses the same J series.
Getting back on topic, I think a new, larger H6 could be cast in several sizes. As well as a 3.5 or higher, they could leave it un-bored for 3.0 or 3.1 and replace the current H6. A single block spread out over several models would be cheaper than maintaining two H6s even if they have to convert engine bays.
Can't believe we haven't had any good Tribeca rumors for so long! C'mon, Subaru! Leak us a tidbit. Somebody somewhere must've captured a photo of these on the street by now.
Wonder when Subaru will call to let me know I won my Tribeca in their contest. *sigh*
-Brian
An article at http://www.sae.org/automag/globalview_09-00/06.htm describing the development of FHI's EZ30 engine makes the issue of changing bore pitch even clearer. According to Noriaki Sekine, Manager of power unit development at FHI: With this in mind, I'd say that the recent engine displacement discussion here has veered not to boring, but to, how shall I say this politely, uninformed. Consider this contribution from ateixeira, "Subaru B9 Tribeca (B9X)" #2014, 2 Mar 2005 1:46 pm piece by piece Stroking an engine doesn't change its external dimmensions. A four-cylinder spark ignition engine is a non-starter with the B9 Tribeca. A B9 Tribeca wouldn't need to called an "STi" to be equipped with a turbo EZ30 and the only ones who'd whine about the price would be those who paid $50K for some other wimpier brand. The ST-X design and fabrication was stricly an SOA effort. SOA hired a Michigan company, SVI (see http://www.subaru.net/owners/prototype/stx/stx.htm and http://www.automotive-technology.com/projects/subaru_STX/subaru_STX4.html) to build the ST-X and its powertrain. To say there are "several design studies going on" is hardly profound. FHI's CEO has declared they're working on both hybrid and diesel engine development. But this in no way supports the idea that FHI is working on a 3.6L engine for the Tribeca.
http://www.cars101.com/subaru/tribeca/tribeca2006.html#orders
Disappointing to see so many little "premium" touches (like puddle lights & the auto-dimming mirror) are options, but I'm sure Subaru's trying to keep that MSRP down. Also somewhat disappointed the audio upgrade is only available with a bump up to leather. The upgraded audio should be STANDARD across the line, since this dash won't allow for aftermarket upgrades.
STD: 100-Watt AM/FM stereo with MP3-compatible single-disc in-dash CD player, 6 audio speakers
UPGD: 160-Watt AM/FM stereo with MP3-compatible 6-disc in dash CD player, 9 audio speakers
The only options the 5-seater folks can order are the port (or dealer) installed options.
Bob
It was the Justy's tiny engine that was an in-line.
But the Leone, GL, BRAT, SVX, Loyale, XT, Impreza, Legacy, Forester, and Outback have had boxers.
jon: if they can get to 3.2l by boring it out like Honda did, they could also stroke the engine to obtain even more displacement, no?
I just feel like you conclude that certain things are not possible, but they only seem impossible, as Honda's example with clever cylinder liners proves.
Stroking an engine doesn't change its external dimmensions
You sure about that? I would expect that the boxer would end up wider.
-juice
"...if they can get to 3.2l by boring it out like Honda did, they could also stroke the engine to obtain even more displacement, no?" - Juice
Not sure, Juice. When modifying an engine by stroking it, the crank offset (not sure of the technical term) must also be enlarged. Otherwise, the piston cannot take advantage of the longer stroke.
Subaru designed the engine with very tight bore spacing making for a very compact fore/aft design. 9.2mm doesn't leave much room for expansion. But with boxer engines, and the Outback's relatively narrow stance, I would assume width is of equal importance. I'm making a big assumption here, but if Subaru were going to build the engine with such a tight web, I'd expect they didn't leave extra space in the bottom... excuse me.... "middle".
No, I see two realistic possibilities. The first is that Subaru didn't expect the hp war launched by Nissan. So they built their H6 with the assumption that it was big enough to carry them for quite a long time. The second is that they decided from the start that this engine would get upgraded via forced induction.
Personally, I think the second is the more likely of the two.
-juice
Ken
John
Judging by the Volvo diesel engine in Europe, it should be possible to generate 250 lbs/ft of torque and 40 MPG.
My $0.02.
John
What's 1% of 1% of the US market? Nothing, basically.
I like diesels, but they should build one primarily for Europe. It has to make its business case over there. If so, then we might see it in limited quantities.
-juice
a. the diesel fuel here has been of very poor quality
b. in the past diesel cars were slow, noisy and smelly.
Once the fuel has been fixed (2006 in Canada, 2007 in the USA?) and they start bringing in modern turbo-diesels, I think people will be all-over them.
They provide better performance, fuel economy, practicality, and cost of ownership then most hybrids.
Sly
Spend the money on developing AVCS further and on Direct Injection as well. What needs attention now is their bread-and-butter 2.5l engine IMO.
-juice
http://www.subaru.com
~alpha
Might be on to something here...
John
John
If Subaru is smart, they will monitor the marketing movement and potential sales of these engines before deciding what they'll bring. I'm for the diesel engines, as supposed to be a major improvement from the 80's and 90's.
With Hybrids costing so much (sales wise), it'll be interesting to see the introduction of diesels. Even more interesting to see where our gasoline engine compadres end up.
I think it'll be the battle of the HP's w/ MPG's as opposed to just the HP's of our current days.
John
but no sat radio? they want to take on the big boys and like someone mentioned, that dash makes aftermarket a challenge.
So I ask again, so xm/sirius FACTORY option?
It would be nice to see a diesel-electric hybrid. Talk about range...
-juice
-juice
The 2nd row has rear tether anchors on the backs of the seats:
The rear tail IS red:
There are LATCH emblems on the bottoms of the outer seats:
Hopefully the images appear for everyone. The rest of the album is here: http://www.imagestation.com/album/index.html?id=2129972785
-Brian
Subaru rep commented that visitors weren't allowed in the Tribeca's due to them being "handbuilt" and not up to par on quality. I did notice the powerseat switch paneling on the driver seat was loose, and a small dent in the front fender, nothing other than autoshow wear and tear really.
-Brian
Question - the LATCH anchors in the 2nd row, do they move fore/aft with the seat?
If so, that means you don't have to reinstall the child seat every time you slide the seat forward to let someone in the 3rd row.
It's pre-production, I doubt the hand-built part though.
-juice
The hand-built line made me chuckle actually. I refrained from commenting on it to the spokesperson.
-Brian
Now, I hope they price it at $8,995 so I can afford one. )
-juice
Anyone else still bummed about the loss of Subaru's relationship with McIntosh? Anyone know what happened there? Design differences? Too expensive? No one cared? Now THAT was a premium feature.
-Jeff
I won't lose sleep over it. Rumor has it that the NAV and sound system is Kenwood - now that I'm happy to hear.
Ah well. Kenwood's quality will make me happy.
Any how, the aux input is in the 3rd row, where you might hook up an iPod or portable gaming system. There is storage there near the port, I'm sure pretty soon people here will have all kinds of nifty solutions for mounting them.
Sam: saw that, great timing for Subaru. Eat your heart out, Lexus!
I know CR doesn't allow you to quote them, but I'll bet Subaru advertises the Tribeca and mentions "from the brand rated most reliable by a leading consumer magazine". Watch.
-juice
CR results get such press coverage, sub doesn't need to.
-juice
Don't get your shorts in a knot yet. That ranking is just for the 2004 model year. This shows that Subaru is making great strides in initial quality, and I applaud that. But so are the Koreans.
However, those stats say absolutely nothing about long-term reliability! Inf act the Korean cars are known to fall apart after about 5 years.
I think Subaru still has some work to do before they can displace Lexus. But still, nice job!
Sly