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Subaru B9 Tribeca (B9X)

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Comments

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Finding a used one might be a bit difficult for the first few years If you do find one, why was it traded? Were there problems?

    Bob
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    agreed, I think we should draft a letter on Juice's behalf that would grant him a highly subsidized Tribeca, based on his PR services for Subaru.

    John
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Although typically more expensive in the long run, would you consider leasing initially for 3 years 36 or 45K miles, and then exercising the purchase option at lease end?

    This option makes sense for some people who would prefer to put little or no money down initially, with the understanding that the vehicle's payment life cycle will be longer (say, 3 years for the lease, plus another 4 to finance the remaining payment as per the financing institution).

    From the perspective of interest paid and length to ownership, it may sound negative, but if you want a fully dressed up Tribeca in the near future and won't/can't make a down payment significant enough to facilitate resonable montly payments, I'd say its worth consideration. Just be sure to purchase GAP insurance.

    I'm sure this is all stuff you know/and have thought about, I just thought I'd mention it.

    Joe
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I might have to look at a demo or something, Bob. Or see if a 5 seater with cloth would please her.

    Ideally I'd like a brand-new 'beca with DVD and NAV for an equal trade for our '02. LOL

    The '02 is paid off, so we could put that as a large down payment and just finance what's left.

    Psychologically, her price limit is $20k. :surprise:

    I realize we're living in the 80s and that's pure fantasy. :blush:

    -juice
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No, but I do think my kids would get a kick out of standing up and waving while I drove them around. :P

    -juice
  • volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    :mad: So reading that Toronto Star article, the fully loaded MSRP is $52500 CDN, which at current exchange is about U$42,200. That puts us about 3k US more expensive doesn't it. Subaru can't blame the exchange rate either, the loonie has actually been higher than it is now over most of the past 8 months.

    Article mentions that we are the 4th largest market. Nice of them to reward customer loyalty. :lemon:
  • dcabdcab Member Posts: 101
    We're considering a 5 seater to replace our 97 Outback. It's probably the only way to avoid a minivan. With two young kids, my wife is convinced that we would quickly outgrow a new Outback. With VIP pricing and SubaruBucks, we could get a limited for a little over 29K.

    We're looking at a 5-seater because with only two kids we don't have to have a third row and I question whether the third row seats are a safe place to put kids in the event of a rear-end collision. So many third rows, not just the Tribeca's, are awfully close to the rear glass.

    I'm interested in pre-ordering to take advantage of the free towing package, but am hesitant to put down any non-refundable money on a vehicle that I only saw roped off at the car show in February and my wife has not seen at all. Does anyone know the details about the pre-order program? I called SOA and was told to call my dealer. I wonder if there are uniform requirements or if each dealership can set its own requirements.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Not us, we'll definitely have to test drive first. And we'll have plenty of time because we aren't necessarily buying new.

    I remember the early Legacy buyers had coupons for free service, but eventually prices came down so it all evens out.

    It's funny but when we actually start actively car shopping it may still take 2 years for us to finally buy something.

    -juice
  • subewannabesubewannabe Member Posts: 403
    My kids are already drooling over Tribeca 9" DVD fantasies, but I am watching the Big 3 products get more and more heavily discounted and incentivized. Since I already have my VIP pricing option locked in, I am going to watch the market for a while. I am betting that Subaru will have to discount an already reasonably-priced vehicle in order to move them off the lots by early next spring, given my assumption that GM and/ or Ford will be on the brink of bankruptcy by then and deep-discounting everything to generate cash ( What? We committed too much of our manufacturing capacity to gas-guzzlers? You think?).
    Most American consumers are illogical ....instead of abandoning the uber-SUV's and construction crew pick-up trucks in favor of slightly more expensive but more reasonable and efficient vehicles, they will buy discounted gas-guzzlers and pay $500 per month for gas . Thus, Subaru will need to discount Tribeca by several thousand dollars to sell vehicles in a buyers market.

    Mark
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    I think those are insightful comments. I read an interesting statistic recently, the average mpg per vehicle in California was 22 in 1964. Guess what it is now, in this technically advanced day? 20 mpg!!

    I think we will start to see more turbo-diesels in the US once we get the ultra-clean diesel fuel standards. The new engines are not only super efficienct, but are quieter than the current gasoline engines. There are rumors that Subaru is working on a TDI engine, using the old 2.2 liter block.

    2007 will likely hold some interesting developments in the mpg department, given where we are in 2005.

    John
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Pretty soon the Freestar & Uplander will have a $12,000 rebate, but so what? You lose all that and more come time to resell. It's false savings, in a way.

    That's not where the demand is, in heavily discounted old-tech people movers. Dodge has momentum but Toyota and Honda are picking up steam.

    It's funny but price does *not* sell by itself. In many, many segments, the hottest model is also the most expensive. BMW 3 series, Lexus RX, Sienna/Odyssey, Mini Cooper S. There are only a few exceptions - Mustang GT and Chrysler 300, maybe.

    Another point - Ford has increased prices 5 times this year. They increase rebates to offset those price increases, and you end up back where you started.

    I think GM should price the Chevy Aveo at $110,000 and then offer a $100,000 rebate. Seriously. ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS rebate! :D

    Guess what? You still pay the same $10 grand. :cry:

    I hope when our Tribeca is 7 years old it's still worth more than $10 grand so we can afford to trade up to a new 2012 Subaru Flying Car.

    -juice
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    yes,
    GM is playing that game esp with high-end models like caddy. price it high, rebate $5000, people fail to see the Net price they pay. they only see that they are paying $5000 below msrp.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Don't want to wander too far off topic, so all I'll say is look at the MSRP of the G6, we're talking nose-bleed here. Completely absurd.

    With an $8000 discount it's still slightly overpriced compared to a V6 Accord.

    Competing with the Tribeca, the Rendezvous Ultra is way overpriced also, and really not very competitive. The Ford Freestyle is more competitively priced, until you add up the cost of all the options. Then it's close to a Tribeca.

    And the fact is in 7 years the Tribeca will be worth twice as much.

    In 1998 the Jeep Cherokee Sport was admittedly tempting, but I'm glad I opted for the Forester because today it is worth more than a 1998 GRAND Cherokee, never mind the regular Cherokee.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    on the future Oz-spec B9 (sans Tribeca)

    http://goauto.carsales.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/8E116E08E19CFAD2CA256FE800082AA3

    It appears the basic Tribeca/Alfa look was locked in before Zapatinas arrived at Subaru! Also, Oz-spec B9s will get a slightly different front end that is better conforming to future Euro front end pedestrian-friendly standards.

    This is a good read folks!

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The B9’s basic design was already locked-in when ex-Fiat/Alfa Romeo designer Andreas Zapatinas came on-board at Subaru in April 2002

    I find that hard to believe. Maybe the chassis hard points were set, but no way was the design complete 3 years ago. They back off a bit from that claim later in the text.

    Zapatinas did, however, take control of the cabin and dashboard design

    Touchdown! If this is true, he is pure talent. This would bode well for future designs.

    I like the reference to Penelope Cruz and I could not agree more with the way they explained it. :)

    I hope they are wrong about the steering.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    a while back that Subaru wanted an Alfa-like look. Maybe that's why they hired Zapatinas?

    I think when they said "locked in" I'm sure they were referring to the design direction, not the details, and it's the "details" which is what we all see and comment on.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    But if he's involved earlier on, from the start, perhaps we can expect even better designs to come?

    The reason I doubt the design was locked in 2002 is that back then GM still wanted Subaru to use their platform. Wasn't that decision made after Zapatinas joined? Then how could the design have been set? They didn't even use the same platform they thought they were going to use back in 2002.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Don't know those answers, just saying FHI executives wanted the new direction be be Alfa-like, and some preliminary work may well have been done and approved by the time Zapatinas was hired. The B11S being one example, even though some Spanish design group got the credit/discredit for that one. That vehicle would never have occurred without FHI blessing.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    had little to do with whether GM was involved or not. That's just surface decoration. The problem with GM sharing the Tribeca had more to do with engineering issues, such as dealing with the boxer engine and drivetrain, and adapting the platform to other GM-sourced engine/drivetrain combos. That's how I understand the falling out there.

    Bob
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    It is no secret that Fuji Heavy Industries – Subaru’s Japanese overlords – is well advanced in the development of a diesel engine, believed to be a turbocharged four-cylinder unit.

    Somehow I can't see the 2.2 liter TDI being adequate for the Tribeca.

    I wonder what else FHI has up its sleeve?

    John
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I've read somewhere that FHI has two diesels under development, an H-4 and an H-6. I think we will see the H-4 first, in some existing European-spec Subie. I think the H-6 diesel will follow, and will be for larger Subarus, such as the B9. My guess is the H-6 is not much more than the H-4 with two additional cylinders. Most likely these engines are turbos, as with almost all modern diesels.

    Bob
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    then this will be worth waiting for. I had been thinking 2006 Baja (if nothing else comes up) to replace my Forester. But, if the Tribeca gets a 6 cylinder TDI then I will likely look at replacing our '02 Mazda MPV in 3 years with the Tribeca. That leaves me stranded on the pickup end, but there is nothing that is just right for me out there. Maybe the '07 Sportrac with a TDI? or a Ridgeline? Possibly even VW is coming up with a Toureg Pickup (TDI?) about the same time frame.

    Either way, I want to keep a Subaru in the lineup (if for no other reason than the Subaru bucks are building up ;) .

    John
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Get a Tribeca and then get a trailer.

    I just borrow Bob's. :)

    Speaking of which I may do my annual borrow-Bob's-trailer run soon, Bob. I need some mulch and some pea gravel.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I wouldn't hold my breath for a US-spec B9 diesel. I think you'll see a B9 hybrid here before that.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Just let me know juice. I just sent in my registration for that (late), so I think we're good till the end of the month—which reminds me, I will need the trailer around that time as I will be moving my daughter out of her apartment.

    In any event, give me a call, I'm sure we can work something out. :)

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Will do. I have to get a free weekend, we have the circus tomorrow and then a party on Sunday, so not this weekend. I'll give you a heads up.

    To bring this back on topic, I guess we'll need the tow package on our Tribeca when we get that. :)

    -juice
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    would seem much easier to do than a hybrid.

    The only current issue with diesels are emissions, esp. in CA. But, "trucks" are exempt. At least the larger trucks anyway. Not sure what the GVW has to be to qualify.

    If the schnoze is considered too prominent right now, think of what it would take to throw an electric component in to the drivetrain on the H-6 boxer. Maybe an H-4 boxer and a hybrid set-up?

    The other guys have their engines set in sideways and there is more space for a hybrid add-on.

    John
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The B9SC is a hybrid H-4.

    http://www.machinedesign.com/ASP/strArticleID/56735/strSite/MDSite/viewSelectedArticle.asp-

    Juice and I saw it at the Detroit show last year. They also had a engine/motor/chassis display there. The hybrid part hooks on to the back end of the engine, and is very compact.

    Bob
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    that looks good, but wouldn't the Tribeca need the 2.5 NA? Not sure how the components work together, but I can't imagine the electric portion wants to be turning at 6,000 rpm. So a torquey low rpm unit like the 2.5 seems like it would work better.

    John
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob beat me to it, but yeah, the drive system on the B9SC was packaged brilliantly. Might add 3" to the overall length of the powertrain, that's it.

    I suspect they might make it 5-seat only and then use the space where the 3rd row would go for batteries.

    Diesel and hybrid are not mutually exclusive, how 'bout a hybrid diesel-electric? That would be the ticket.

    -juice
  • saustinsaustin Member Posts: 68
    Hi,
    Am trying to get a group sense of color preference for the B9. Have seen the blue, grey interior combo (Loved it ! )but have been told the gold interior is easier to keep clean if you have kids because it doesn't have the perforations that spills would get into. So that kind of makes us lean towards the Champagne Gold Opal.
    Can we get a poll going ? What are others ordering ?

    Also, why are there no Subaru purchasing (not lease) incentives out ?

    Steve.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My vote is sort of split. I think the biege interior is absolutely stunning, among the top in the entire industry. The gray is not at warm, but the dark color would be easier to keep clean IMHO.

    So I'd take either one, really.

    Remember, the 5 seat Tribeca Limited will cost $1150 less than the Outback VDC. The incentive is already built-in.

    -juice
  • saustinsaustin Member Posts: 68
    Juice,
    What exterior color are you ordering ?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Subaru has been offering to those who sign up early with some extra goodies free. I believe BigElm took advantage of that.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Oh yeah, forgot about the $500 LL Bean gift card, tow package, or XM stereo for pre-orders. That's for a limited time, though, and before even test driving.

    Color? Not sure. I'm not picky, but for fun let's look at the colors closely, now that I'm officially browsing:

    Atlantic Blue Pearl: fave color, though I'll admit it looks better on the Legacy GT than it does here. I'd still consider it.

    Obsidian Black Pearl: looks nice, but I'm OCD and black is impossible to keep looking clean. Still, hard to resist.

    Champagne Gold Opal: perhaps the most practical color, would look good with beige interior I also like. Maybe.

    Mahogany Red Pearl: looks more bronze in person, sort of in the rust color family. Not a fan.

    Titanium Silver Metallic: looks good and should be low maintenance. But it lacks pizazz.

    Satin White Pearl: on certain cars this color looks extremely rich, I'd have to see it in person.

    Seacrest Green Metallic: not sure why I don't like this color more, on paper I should. I think I like the pearlescent paints better.

    To be honest there isn't one color I'd rule out completely, so I'd be flexible. I want to see the ABP and SWP in person to pick a favorite.

    -juice
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    Mahogoney Red/Grey Leather (we have beige in the OB and we're tired of it).

    Bob is right, I took advantage of the $500 LL Bean certificate.

    I think the Atlantic Blue looks very nice on the B9 but my wife wasn't crazy about it. For some reason, the Mahogoney just stood out more.

    Believe it or not, when I looked at the Satin White Pearl, it looked classy/luxury... kinda reminded me of the RX330.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    For some reason I prefer darker colors on the Tribeca, but lighter colors on the Leg GT. Maybe that's why the ABP looks better on the Leg to me, it's too light.

    From that standpoint, the only "dark" colors are that Red and Black. While I think the Black looks great, we all know how hard it is to keep that looking clean.

    Put it this way, if I had free car washes I'd pick Black. :)

    -juice
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    I think you are on to something here. Either of the diesels could be effectively perked up by a hybrid electric component enough to make it a more peppy vehicle than the current H-6 gasoline.

    John
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If you look at the Ford Escape Hybrid and the Highlander/RX400H duo, what's really lacking is the highway mileage. Basically in a brick-shaped vehicle the engine pretty much has to work all the time, so they get little benefit from the electric motor on the highway cycle.

    I believe the HL gets 27mpg, and the RX400H 26mpg, highway. Not bad, but not much better than the gas-only counterparts.

    A diesel, OTOH, could do well in both cycles, amazingly well. The Passat TDI wagon gets 38mpg and I think the Benz E class gets 37mpg, much better numbers than the new hybrids with just a diesel engine.

    SUVs would not do as well, but hybrid SUVs could come close. So we might see a 10mpg jump in highway economy with a diesel+electric hybrid.

    Who's with me? ;)

    -juice
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Why is it that Edmunds does not list any options on the Tribeca? They only list the prices for the different trim levels - no detail listing. Am I mistaken in that there are no options for the Tribeca? Other than adding DVD & NAV to any of the models.

    Two of the items they are offering for early signing are the tow package and the satelitte radio. Are these limited time offers, or are they items that will be available for all levels of the Tribeca?

    Just trying to see what is offered with what. BTW, interesting to note that Edmunds TMV for the Tribeca is already below MSRP for a brand new vehicle that technically has not even hit the show room floor yet.

    Mark
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    In terms of sheer MPG, I would agree that diesel offers benefits that hybrids dont (or cant at this time). However, your argument leaves out considerations for the enviornment and the alacrity factor that designs like the HL and RX400H bring to the table. Both run to 60 about 1 second ahead of their gasoline counterparts. Ditto the Honda Accord V6/Hybrid- in Consumer Reports testing loop, its about 2 MPG better than the standard V6, but its 2 MPG better while being faster, and far less polluting.

    Joe
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    Let me help you out Mark.

    If you want to see options and accessories, the only site that has this info (so far) is www.cars101.com and they've been pretty 'on point' with Subaru's vehicles before they are 'officially' announced.

    Also, the pre-order offers are 3:
    Towing upgrade package
    Portable XM radio
    $500 LL Bean Certificate

    The offer is up to May 19th (I believe).

    You can also go on to www.b9tribeca.com and click on preorder.

    Oh... and I think Edmunds just pulled that number out of their _______ until they get some more info.

    Hope this helps.
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Thanks Elm. I figured there had to be something out there, I just could not find it. BTW, the b9tribeca site does not list all the options yet. Oh, and congrats and good luck with the Tribeca and the move!

    Mark
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    The move will happen soon... my wife is getting a job transfer and I think it's time to move on to better things.

    In the meantime, I'm going to have to come up to get the B9 if it doesn't get here before we move. Now, I'm thinking of getting the Leg sedan for me to play with as a second car but may wait till the '06's ;-)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    We'll probably see a lot of the accessories that are offered on the Legacy GT. They're probably sorting that stuff out now, as we speak.

    TMV sounds accurate in this tough market. Pilot LX runs $24.8k around here, EX for just over $27k. It is a buyer's market, no doubt about that.

    Besides, the Ody is hotter than the Pilot, more in demand at the Honda dealers.

    Joe: true, but hybrids haven't always been so consistent. MT lists a quicker 0-60 time for the Accord V6 than it does for the hybrid model. And real-world MPG doesn't match the optimistic EPA numbers.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm very pro-hybrid, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate.

    Highlander was priced right, IMO, $33k for FWD and $34k and change for AWD. Much better than the $50 grand for the RX400H.

    -juice
  • grdh20grdh20 Member Posts: 46
    It's a little hard to choose a color without seeing them all in person, so I played it safe and went sil/grey on my preorder. All the dealers are saying now preview car in May and preorders due in June.
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    I am not totally up on the newest generation diesels. But I do know that a great deal of progress has been made on the emissions front, especially with the new fuels that are due out (2007, I believe). Some of the improvements have come from: electronic injection timing; higher pressure independent, multi stream injectors, and off course turbo charging.

    But, shutting off diesels and restarting them is not susposed to be their strong point. These are traditional hybrid car benefits that may not lend themselves readily to diesel engines.

    John
  • cpp788xcpp788x Member Posts: 47
    Hi,

    For me the Green, Rust , and Blue are too trendy. The silver is too common. The gold is very nice but not with powder coated silver wheels. the wheels should be anodized aluminum or chrome. That leaves the black and white.

    It's simple really - whatever looks better with the grey leather.

    I like the white

    Charlie
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