Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

fintail · February 2013

Probably more like 20K, on a good day. I don't think I've ever seen a Carat Duchatelet W126 in the US anyway, very period piece.

bhill2 · February 2013

That one would certainly solve the problem of limited rear legroom in my 380SE.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2013

I was thinkin' more like $12,500. This is a curiousity, but in reality an Elephanto Blanco.

fintail · February 2013

Probably not far off. Really, it might be better to seek a German buyer - they'd appreciate it more, and W126s are already minor collectibles there.

If I had an aircraft hangar or Leno's garage etc for storage, and unlimited funds, I'd want it.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2013

What on earth would you do with it? You wouldn't even gain any prestige because everyone would think you're a driver, not an owner.

fintail · February 2013

In Germany, it would get tons of attention at shows - custom cars of that era have a cult around them now. Probably would get some attention at local shows too. But no fun to drive, for sure.

texases · February 2013

Shifty, you've discovered Fin's new business plan:

Mr_Shiftright · February 2013

really? people take 80s Benzes to car shows in Europe? You'd never see that here.

fintail · February 2013

Most definitely, especially highline and custom models. The 80s were 30 years ago now, and many people have some nostalgia for the era. These custom cars were very expensive and exotic when new, and are rare. I guarantee that an 80s era MB customized by AMG/Gemballa/Koenig et al would get a lot of attention there. There's even a signal red C126 500SEC with AMG trim that shows up at the local MBCA show here, always attracts people.

Like the stuff on this page - there's a cult around it now.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2013

I see. I guess it's a cultural thing. Here you could trip over one before anyone would notice it.

fintail · February 2013

Nah, if I am going to be a driver, I will do it right:

Mr_Shiftright · February 2013

I've driven one of those on a number of occasions. Interesting thing is that they really move right out, and handle pretty darn good, too. Very different experience than an American limo---*very* different. Teutonic, head to toe.

fintail · February 2013

Too bad they are like restoring and maintaining a Victorian mansion. They really proved MB was in it for real. Less than 20 years after the end of the war, pretty amazing really.

Mr_Shiftright · February 2013

The MB 600 was an amazing car for its day--a technological showcase--one of the first truly modern Mercedes Benz postwar cars. You could give an American muscle car of the era FITS in that barge and if you couldn't out-drag one, you could easily out-turn them and lose them on a twisty track or road.

The 300 SEL 6.3 was even more ferocious (same engine).

fintail · February 2013

I've seen some videos of one being tossed around back in the day. Pretty crazy - but I'd keep away. A 6.3 could top 140, which was a feat for a sedan back in the day.

lemko · February 2013

This is the way I'd do it!

fintail · February 2013

If I was really going to overdo it, I would do this - pretty much a locomotive with rubber tires, should get people out of my way :shades:

fintail · February 2013

Took the old project car in today for an alignment and to have the suspension inspected. I was pretty afraid of a big bill, as the tires have worn oddly - but I got lucky, only needed a couple minor things ("damper" and "left tie rod" - both under $100). The veteran tech said the suspension was very clean and solid, and is now ready for new tires. Hope to get it those wide whitewall radials in the coming weeks.

xwesx · February 2013

Nice. I figured it might be in for both tie rod ends and ball joints, as well as the steering linkage given its age. I need to replace the steering linkage on my Econoline... it's getting really bad.

fintail · February 2013

I had a steering coupling (I think) replaced many years ago - the steering had a lot of play before that. Cheap part, a bit of labor. At the same time, the car got kingpins. I guess there's not a lot more to do other than some bushings. Really looking forward to new tires, I've wanted some for years.

explorerx4 · February 2013

How old are the tires? I had the original tires on my Mustang for about 18 years, but they were scary.

fintail · February 2013

I think they are from 1999-2000. They aren't cracked or rotten (looking), but they are pretty worn and were cheapies to begin with.

lemko · February 2013

Can't wait to see pictures of your ride sporting the proper whitewalls!

xwesx · February 2013

Tires. Yikes. I really haven't even considered replacing them, but the ones on my Econoline are from June 1995, and the set on my C20 are from July 1997. At least the ones on the pickup are well-worn and need replacement on those grounds (they have close to 50,000 miles on them). The set on the Econoline have maybe 20,000 miles and look nearly new.

fintail · February 2013

Me too, I am a little geeked now. Just gotta order them and make the arrangements - I will within a few weeks. The old car deserves them. The compliments I received yesterday reassured me about the old thing - the people at that shop loved it.

stever · February 2013

A journalist is looking for proud owners of cars 11+ years old to ask why you love your car. If you love your old car and would like to share your story, please send your daytime contact info to pr@edmunds.com no later than Monday, March 4, 2013 at noon PT/3 p.m. ET.

texases · March 2013

...again. I remember his comment that restorations of 'normal' old cars return about $0.50 on each dollar spent. Just got back from visiting some friends, he had bought and restored a '41 GM pickup. Got the bug for a newer project and when he sold the '41 he got EXACTLY $0.50 on each dollar he had spent on the restoration...

Mr_Shiftright · March 2013

Seems to be a facile kind of joke but I've noticed that it is a remarkably accurate formula, give or take a few percent.

My friend sold his (very very nice) 32' Chevy rod for $51,000, after a long time trying. His receipts were about $104,000. (ouch!)

But he won some shows, drove it after the show circuit was done, had fun for a few years, so it was probably cheaper than 4 years of professional therapy at two visits a week. :P

There *ARE* cars you can make money on, but you have to be very shrewd about it.

As someone once told me, in a burst of good automotive wisdom:

"The profit on a car is in the buy, not the sell".

In the case of projects, it's in the buy and in the brakes you can apply to the restoration.

stickguy · March 2013

My issue of autoweek came yesterday. I always read the marketplace piece first, where they feature a recent auction sale.

This issue is was a gorgeous, bright green, over the top resto on a 1969 AMX. Sold for 32K, and supposedly had receipts for over 90K on the restoration.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2013

Case in point---you have to choose the right kind of car to restore. If you chose to do a full nut and bolt, professional restoration on an AMC, Studebaker, Kaiser, Frazer, postwar Packard, or a "stripper" model of the Big Three, or most 4-door sedans, or a metal station wagon, or an entry level sports car, or a pickup truck or van, you're going to take a beating.

If it's not an open car or muscle car, or exotic European, it's risky.

As for street rods, I'm not sure any street rod in history ever made a profit, aside from the "period rods" built in the 50s by famous builders, or maybe some of the famous salt flats racers.

gsemike · March 2013

Still not seeing many old cars listed yet on NY craigs but for some reason, there is a glue of Impalas and pricing is all over the place:

Buckets and console fastback

6 cyl 64 SS

Worth triple if not a sedan

Restored 67 I wonder if the colors on the pass side are that far off in person

Pretty rare site in these parts if you can actually see it

A bit too rough for the money Get that trim out of the trunk and back on the car

Worn out 2 door money for a worn out 4 door

Good candidate for a refurb maybe

New paint isn't great but maybe an affordable ticket to local cruises

Too far to go

The mother of big old Chevies

Not a Chevy but still of interest

stickguy · March 2013

That Suburban is kind of cool. Of course, it needs a restore, and I doubt you can get out for less than 50K based on the condition it is in, so talke about being buried.

fintail · March 2013

People seem proud of their Impalas there. The 61 might be the least harmful deal.

W108 looks really nice, but they bring more like 7-8K-ish even in great condition. It's also a carb (base 108) model, which some like, some don't.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2013

The MB 250 is about 300% over book.

qbrozen · March 2013

As for street rods, I'm not sure any street rod in history ever made a profit, aside from the "period rods" built in the 50s by famous builders, or maybe some of the famous salt flats racers.

There is a show where they do exactly that (buy junkers, make them into rods, and sell them at auction), and if you believe the numbers, they make a profit just about every time. Oh, actually, there are a few shows now that I think about it. The first ... I can't remember what its called... I'm not even sure they are making new shows anymore. They seem to be out in the southwest somewhere. The 2nd is that show that started last year about Gas Monkey Garage. And then there is Counting Cars.

With all those shows, I usually have a hard time believing the numbers, especially Counting Cars. I've seen him buy a car for $5k, spend weeks on it, give it a full interior and paint job, and sell it at $15k "for a profit." Hmmm...

stickguy · March 2013

I am addicted to Speed and Velocity and the car shows, and "counting cars" does not ring a bell.

But the ones I do watch seem to be a stretch. Almost like wheeler dealers, where they don't add in the cost of labor!

Texas car wars is a new one, and those costs for what they do have to be bogus. Desert Valley (not sure the actual name) was the same deal, though they did pick there parts from the yard mostly. Still, the $ did not make sense when you counted man hours, though I guess if you have guys in the shop getting paid $10 it could!

The other older series was "rags to riches" (I think) at Barry's speed shop. I did like the "spendometer", and that one actually seemed legit, because they claimed to spend some serious coin on a few of those builds.

ab348 · March 2013

IMO, all of those shows are garbage. They are all scripted and bear no relation to anyone's "reality" except the producers.

michaellno · March 2013

There is a show where they do exactly that (buy junkers, make them into rods, and sell them at auction), and if you believe the numbers, they make a profit just about every time.

I believe it's called "Fast and Loud", and, like "Wheeler Dealers", I suspect they don't factor in any cost for labor.

Mr_Shiftright · March 2013

Something is definitely not right with those shows---either they are faking it (often happens on Reality shows), or not counting labor, or, even more likely, the actual quality of the work is down and dirty--- a TV camera can make a real turd look great from 10 feet away. You won't see body filler, overspray, cheap chrome work, file marks, cheesy materials in carpets and upholstery, or all the things not working in the rod.

I could show you photos of cars I have inspected that look great but are utter disasters when you look underneath or actually try to drive them.

Building rat rods is fine but don't call them 'restorations'.

qbrozen · March 2013

Yeah, that one with the spendometer was the first one I was thinking of. They do claim the labor is in there and the spends are pretty high. So he'll spend something like $45k and get $50k at auction. Of course, if they were to subtract the transportation costs and auction fees...

Counting Cars is the one that is a spinoff from Pawn Stars on History Channel. It is about the guy who usually does their appraisals at the pawn shop. I think it is an entertaining show and he is quite a character... but the numbers make no sense.

qbrozen · March 2013

To each his own.

As for the scripting ... eh. I don't watch it for the drama personally, although that's probably what drives viewership. For us gearheads, we watch to see what cars they dig up and what they do to them. Wheeler Dealers is definitely the most technical of the bunch.

stickguy · March 2013

I am not a techie in any sense, but I have done stuff on my cars and know a fair amount, and have to say that I learned quite a bit from old Edd China on that show. I like the way he explains and shows what he is doing.

jpp75 · March 2013

Remind me, what year is your fintail?

Mr_Shiftright · March 2013

Oh I think they know what they're doing, for sure--I was just questioning how it plays out in TV land.

fintail · March 2013

It's a 64, which is later run for a 220SE. So, I get dual circuit discs and a 4 speed auto. My car also has the earlier style round horn ring steering wheel, so it's the best of both worlds.

fintail · March 2013

The only American-based classic car show I've found I can tolerate is Chasing Classic Cars - Wayne Carini seems very honest, and he has good taste. The other more dramatic ones really seem scripted.

Wheeler Dealers is fantastic, I can watch it for hours. Edd is a good combination of skilled and patient, and Mike is a superdork - but not an unlikeable one, he has enthusiasm. If Edd's labor was billed at a market rate, he'd be a millionaire.

omarman · March 2013

What a thing to preserve/restore. At first glance it reminded me of the plain white Ohio Highway Patrol Impalas from that era but it's actually just a low option 307 sedan.

Not my favorite color, but this 1970 Custom Impala was probably one of the best Detroit battleships around back then. For some reason my eyes were drawn to the fender mount turn signal indicators. I don't recall seeing them on big Chevys but by 1970 the options and accessories were growing for these things like the bulk and weight.

andre1969 · March 2013

That '70 Impala looks like a really nice car for $5,000. I can even deal with the color, as IMO at least, that's one of the more tasteful shades of green I've seen from that era. My grandparents' '72 Impala was similar, but I think its green was a bit darker.

My grandparents also had a '68 Impala, but it had a 327. I don't remember it very well. They gave it to my Mom in '72 when they bought their new Impala, and she traded it when I was 5, for a '75 LeMans. I remember it being a vibrant, colorful bluish-green color, but I was looking through some old photos over the weekend and found some where it was in the background, and it appeared to be more of a dull grayish-green.

ab348 · March 2013

Personally I like the '67/'68 generation better than the '69/'70, but all are preferred for me to the later versions that were just too bulky. We had a '69 when I was a kid and the interior was pretty disappointing. The dash just wasn't as good as the earlier models. Ours was very softly sprung and really wallowed badly - in fact that was a big part of why we got rid of it. It was a Sport Coupe, Butternut yellow with a black vinyl interior.

Given they sold so many of them, it's not surprising that you see a lot of these '70's still at shows and the like. There is one locally that is an all-original survivor car, carfully preserved, but with a most unfortunate color combo - a tomato-red paint job with a black vinyl top and gold cloth interior. Ordered that way new by the guy who still owns it.

This one may have been "professionally restored", but is that white piping I see on the seats? And why a junky aftermarket air cleaner? Throw that away.

fintail · March 2013

That 1970 does look like a good deal, and is a good representation of how cars really were in the day. For 5K, not a bad driver.

The 68 - if I want a mint low mileage car, I want it to be original - if not, the mileage isn't worth much.

Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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