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Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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Comments

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    A kompressor or the I6 out of a 300E would be decent - I know the latter puts out about 180hp, which would be fine in a ~3000lb car.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    Anything to get 0-60 down around 15 secs or less is needed, and maybe make the car capable of freeway speeds. I suspect the transmissions were overbuilt enough to take a somewhat more powerful engine. A complete W123 turbodiesel powertrain swap might not be a huge job. The ratio in a diesel fintail must be high, contributing to its minimal high speed capability. My I6 fintail also has what must be a high ratio (don't know it off my head), it really buzzes along over 70 or so, but the engine doesn't mind.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,747
    That's pretty much what I did with my truck. It had sat for 23 years but only had 29,000 miles on the clock. Well, what chance was there that I was going to have to put a lot of money into it to get it running? I thought the chance was fairly high, so I paid $500 for it (back in 1997).

    Turns out, I won that bet. I only put about $250 into it along with about two hours of work, and it was running like a top. Another $600 for new tires and I was good to go.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,638
    That '77 Bonneville is a good looking car. Nice colors, and big engine. I wonder how low he'd go, money-wise.

    The '83 Continental is nice, too. These were always my least favorite of the bustlebacks, but I'm finding that I like them more and more. I think part of it is that I see them less often than an Imperial or Seville. And, one thing in the Continental's favor is that it had fairly good drivetrains. The 302 V-8 was always decent, as far as I know. I guess some of the earlier 4-speed automatics could still be troublesome, and I've heard air suspensions could be problematic...and expensive. But in contrast, the '81-83 Imperial had finicky fuel injection, and the Seville, after 1980 at least, was stuck with either a V-8-6-4, Diesel, or aluminum 249.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,817
    The earlier Continentals had Ford's CFI which absolutely was better than GM or Chryslers alternatives, but certainly not great. The problem with it is that today there aren't many people who understand it, and a few of the sensors are pretty expensive. Those 5.0s also had crappy timing sets and once they stretch the car will not run well.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • toomanyfumestoomanyfumes Member Posts: 1,019
    When I was a teen I had a '68 Galaxie 2-door in those exact colors, tan with the white painted roof. I don't think I've seen another like it. Of course mine had lots of miles, rust and a saggy rear end, but it was fairly reliable and a decent performer with the 302 V-8.
    2012 Mustang Premium, 2013 Lincoln MKX Elite, 2007 Mitsubishi Outlander.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    I bet if you approached Bonneville guy with say $3800 in cash, you'd be driving away in it. I like the colors of that car, and it appears fairly loaded - I see power seat too.

    Lincoln seems like a deal for $2K if it starts drives and stops. I also notice it has digital dash.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    Cool - my first car was a 66 Galaxie, and my dad had a 68 Fairlane among his hobby cars when I was a teen (I remember similar steering wheel to that 68 Galaxie). I have no desire to rekindle the experience of my first car - it was a 390 that was very thirsty and cold blooded. Sharp looking car anyway, but most were for 66.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    My own project car got a little upgrade today:

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    (pics show how the color looks in different light)
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    So, is that minivan your daily driver - just kidding!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    Some old sales material showing similar tires:

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    I was thinking they might be too wide, but if they are, it is marginal, maybe 1cm.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    Funny thing - there were a few 5-6 year old kids getting out of that Odyssey when I drove by, and one remarked "that's so cool!". The tires are pretty ostentatious - you notice the car now.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I think the nice thing about your car is that it is "distinctively" an MB, wide whitewalls or not. Not as obvious on some of the newer models until you get up close.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    There we go, now it looks like it rolled off the showroom floor yesterday.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,817
    I like it, really sets off the classic look of the car.

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,863
    edited March 2013
    I like the pink Rambler... but not for that money.

    If the RX7 is as nice as claimed, its a bargain, IMHO.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    NICE!!! :):D :shades:
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,747
    Agreed. The wide whites look fantastic on it.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    edited March 2013
    Thanks for the compliments, everybody. They do really set off the car, and make it look nicer than it is - something the car has always done well. An even better 10 footer, now. They are so stark white, I assume they will mellow a little with time.

    I think the whitewall is maybe 1cm (say 1/4-1/3 inch) too wide, maybe intended for Pontons. Probably nobody but an expert would notice this, so I shouldn't sweat it. My car is also a 220SE, not a lowline 190D or something, so they fit in. Also, W111 fintails are 1959 cars, made for several years later but virtually unchanged. The tires fit that time period, they do have some blackwall - not all the way to the ground like earlier tires.

    The tires on this link look similar to mine (pamphlet from 1959-60)

    Some period images of wide whitewall fintails, from a book I bought in Germany:

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    And the cover of a DVD I bought at the MB Museum:

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    This claim still give me a smirk:

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  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,638
    VERY nice, Fin! Where did you get those tires? Coker tire, I'm guessing? Or some other vendor?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    edited March 2013
    I bought them from this place - not just for the decent prices, but because they are on the west coast, so shipping was a bit less than other sellers, all of whom seem to be in the midwest or east coast. Only a few places sell them. They are BF Goodrich Silvertown - maybe the only maker of 13" wide whitewall radials in this market.

    The car has P185/70R13, which is the same size as the old tires on the car that dated back from when I was a student and Clinton was president. I see there is a P175 tire with a slightly narrower whitewall - I wonder if that narrower tire would have fit.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    I once drove a manual transmission (4-on-the tree?) Fintail from the Chicago suburbs to Madison, WI. Nice car, as I recall.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    Yep, 4 on the tree was common until 1965. then 4 on the floor also became available. They all drive like a newer car - but I won't complain that mine is automatic. It's sometimes a little weird, but durable.
  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    At first I thought it was a lowrider but then it said it had air suspension, which obviously failed at one point. And this oneis not even the V8 so doubt that anyone will even try to restore it.

    Parts or project?

    1968 Mercedes 300 SEL

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I wonder if that car has an air suspension that is shot? Looks like a lowrider.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    edited March 2013
    Oh, that's a rare bird, earlier series W109. Might be a good flip if it can be made to run and drive. Suspension could be shot but might be OK - after they sit for a few weeks, they sag down - that one has been idle for a long time. Rotten suspension parts would be my worry. If it can run, sit up to normal height, and isn't rotten (the biggest worry) - buy it for say $900, put a little into making it move, sell it for $2500 for a lover of money pits. Not a sane restoration project, as you'll spend 40K to get 10K in return.

    But seriously, likely a parts car, and for the right price, a good one as it looks complete. Looks like it has super rare accessory rear headrests, those with the Euro lights could nearly be worth the asking price. That would be the kind of thing I would rescue if I had a big building for storage.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes, it has air suspension. i think it's probably a parts car. These have very little value even in nice shape, so there's really no "up" here.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,669
    I guess the spring conversion kit for a Panther wouldn't work on that Benz... :P
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Unless you're a Handy Andy you're going to run into complexity and expense I'm afraid. The market picks and chooses and it is sometimes cruel I guess.

    If this were a '67 Jaguar MkII 3.8 four-door sedan it would be sold so fast there wouldn't even be a need to advertise it.

    The 300SEL is a rare car--another example of how rarity does not always translate into value.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,863
    I think this might be in your neck of the woods, shifty?
    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/cto/3648826937.html

    Guy is down to $9k asking price on the SCCA forum.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • boomchekboomchek Member Posts: 5,516
    Well here's the way I look at it.

    I can buy it and get it towed to our local indy Benz mechanic where he can take his time and mess with it and make it running but even if the repairs to make it a runner cost me $5k I still think it would take me forever to find a buyer not only at a break even price of around $6k but at a price where I can come out ahead on it.

    So even if I put it at $10k it would probably be tough getting rid of it, even to an MB enthusiast as for $10k there are so many other quasi collectible Benzes in nice shape that one can buy.

    I guess the worst case scenario would be the air suspension that might require new hosing, compressor, airbags?, plus if it sat for years then new fuel injectors and other related componensts, an full engine rebuild maybe?

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,669
    Very nice 944 Turbo. But salvage title for $3,000 worth of repairs? Odd...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Too bad about that salvage title...this prices the car, as stated, too high, in my opinion---probably $7500 is all the money here and then some, unless you turn it into a track car, which is what smart money would do. :shades:

    These 944 turbos, when properly equipped and in the hands of a skilled driver, can still give a new 911 fits on a road course.

    So yeah, maybe from SCCA will bite on this, as "good bones" for a track car.

    As for those planning to use this as a street car, we all remember the old rule: "Whatever gets you into a car cheaply when you buy it, will come back to haunt you when you sell it".

    That salvage title hangs like a sharp sword over the car--if you put in lots of need mods and make it a great street car, then you'll never see your money out of it.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,204
    Those tires look great on the car.
    I hope you have a fedora you wear while driving it.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    edited March 2013
    That would work pretty well. They give the car some swank - and with the headroom, I could wear it while driving :shades:

    I was looking around today, here's a fintail with the same tires:

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    And a highly restored one in Germany:

    image


    Nice to see some others who have the same. I was a little concerned that the tires aren't 100% identical to OEM, but they might be as close as one can get for a radial tire.

    Now I have an urge to have the steering wheel restored.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Classy, timeless!

    What's the make and model of that yellow truck?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    I think the truck is a "Framo".
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited March 2013
    I'd never heard of the Framo brand. So, I looked it up, and it made for interesting reading. The small (mini or micro, it looks like) cars were interesting to me. They look like the German equivalent of our Crosley, roughly. Judging from the pics they have about the narrowest wheels I've seen on a car, but with comparatively large diameters. Must have been pretty good in snow. Good weight distribution too, with that tiny motor up front.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    I think Framo was involved with the goofy/neat German 3 wheel trucks before the war, then merged into Barkas in DDR after. Economy vehicles made for local use. The truck was probably their largest product.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 15,817
    Shifty, what do you think this is worth?

    82 Mark VI

    2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,638
    edited March 2013
    Whatever Shifty says it's worth, I'm docking $1,000, simply because the seller sounds a little douchey from the ad copy. :P

    It does look like a pretty nice car, though. I wonder how quick it would be with that Mustang drivetrain? IIRC, these cars actually weren't *too* sluggish for the time to begin with.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,863
    edited March 2013
    Really not all that much. Heck, I just watched an episode of Fast N Loud last night where they auctioned off an all-original example of that car with, IIRC, 6xK miles, and looked to be in great condition. It hit $3400. And that's at an auction.

    Now you've got this one that isn't original and has needs and not a great interior. Not exactly a desirable engine swap, IMHO. Not the most reliable nor very powerful. Did he say how many miles on that engine? I didn't notice. That would, of course, be important to know. He's already down to $4k, which I think is top of the mark if it was done well, no rust, and runs like a top. I'd personally feel better in the $3500 or less range... again, depending on how it looks/drives in person.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,863
    edited March 2013
    You definitely couldn't replicate it for the money. Too bad I'd have to spend more to get rid of the stupid crosses.

    I really like this. Just not at that price. Shifty, you have an opinion on this one? If the paint and body were real nice in person... I'm thinking $6k-7k?? Anyone know the engine in this one? He just says big block. I'm not seeing evidence of a big block being available back then. Looks like 352 was the largest possible.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    On the '83 Lincoln Mk VI, here's my reasoning.

    We have a modified car here, with paint chips and a rust bubble at the vinyl roof border. The engine burns a bit of oil. This is probably a #3 to 3 minus car, and at best a minor collectible. I'm thinking that the asking price is a bit high, and that the market will finally dictate a price of 3000--$3500, presuming a test drive does not reveal a worn out rattling clunker of a car. We do not have detailed engine bay or underbody shots, and if this reveals shabbiness, then the price drops another $500 at least.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    '65 Ford F-150: My thoughts on value:

    60s pickups are gaining in value, no doubt about that; that being said, this particular truck, as shown, has some downside. We don't know if the engine is a 352 or 292, and we have no idea what it looks like under there--now why would be expect a seller to advertise a 'big block" and NOT SHOW IT?!!! :surprise:

    Also, 3-on-the-tree is a negative and scrubs value---right off, you lose 1/2 your buyer base.

    Also I see some mickey-mousing here---bad tailgate fit, rust on the wheels, custom steering wheel.

    Just "taking a whiff" of this truck, without seeing it, I'm going to say the asking price is too high, and that right around $7000 sounds right for it.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    53 Dodge customized pickup. Seems fairly priced at $17,000----fair retail pricing, no money left to flip it, though. This is what that '65 Ford Pickup would be worth if it were fairly pristine and a 4-speed.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,863
    sounds like, as usual, we agree on all the cars/trucks.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    That's because we are impartial observers and can apply some logic to the evaluation.

    If you are "in love" with a car or a brand, you'll never be completely objective.

    We all have our biases, but that's usually harmless unless we are the buyer---then we can get stupid. :P
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,382
    I kind of like that Ford PU. But for sure, if I bought it, it would be a 4 (or at least 3) on the floor within a couple of weeks.

    what I really want is a mid 70s orange Chevy step side Walker Evans special. Street version of this. I still remember the article in car and driver about it.

    image

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

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