Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Any downside to buying a hybrid?
This discussion has been closed.
Most popular vehicles
Popular New Cars
- New Acura MDX
- New Acura RDX
- New Audi Q5
- New BMW 3 Series
- New BMW X3
- New Buick Enclave
- New Cadillac Escalade
- New Chevrolet Equinox
- New Chrysler 300
- New Dodge Challenger
- New Ford Edge
- New Ford Escape
- New Ford Expedition
- New Ford Explorer
- New Ford F-150
- New Ford Focus
- New Ford Mustang
- New Honda Accord
- New Honda Civic
- New Honda CR-V
- New Honda Fit
- New Honda Odyssey
- New Honda Pilot
- New Hyundai Elantra
- New Hyundai Santa Fe
- New Hyundai Sonata
- New Hyundai Tucson
- New Jeep Compass
- New Jeep Grand Cherokee
- New Jeep Wrangler
- New Mazda 3
- New Mazda 6
- New Mazda CX-5
- New Nissan Altima
- New Nissan Maxima
- New Nissan Rogue
- New Porsche Cayenne
- New Ram 1500
- New Subaru Crosstrek
- New Subaru Forester
- New Subaru Impreza
- New Subaru Outback
- New Tesla Model S
- New Tesla Model X
- New Toyota 4Runner
- New Toyota Camry
- New Toyota Corolla
- New Toyota Highlander
- New Toyota Prius
- New Toyota RAV4
- New Toyota Sienna
- New Toyota Tacoma
- New Volkswagen Jetta
- New Volvo XC60
- New Volvo XC90
Popular Used Sedans
- Used BMW 5 Series
- Used Chevrolet Impala
- Used Chevrolet Malibu
- Used Chrysler 200
- Used Dodge Charger
- Used Ford Fusion
- Used Ford Taurus
- Used Honda Accord
- Used Honda Civic
- Used Hyundai Elantra
- Used Hyundai Sonata
- Used Tesla Model S
- Used Toyota Camry
- Used Toyota Corolla
- Used Volkswagen Jetta
Popular Used SUVs
- Used Acura MDX
- Used Acura RDX
- Used Ford Edge
- Used Ford Explorer
- Used Honda CR-V
- Used Honda Pilot
- Used Hyundai Santa Fe
- Used Jeep Compass
- Used Lincoln Navigator
- Used Mazda CX-5
- Used Nissan Rogue
- Used Subaru Crosstrek
- Used Subaru Forester
- Used Tesla Model X
- Used Volvo XC90
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
BORING.
I pretty much gave up then. I knew the Accord Hybrid was coming out, but at $30K was out of my price range and I was already driving a used gasser Accord that averaged 31 mpg all the time--absolutely no benefit to going to hybrid from that.
Someone at work had two diesel Jettas (they liked their first one so much they got a second one). I drove one at the dealer. FUN! Still kept researching, compared it to gassers... the diesel won. Bought it in March and I love it. My diesel-powered automatic has gotten 37-44mpg from day one. The turbo is great. The amenities are awesome. No, it doesn't stink or make a lot of noise.
My coworker's Jettas are both manual and get consistently 45-49mpg.
I really want to love the hybrids, and I still love the idea. But if Honda comes out with a diesel-electric hybrid, THEN you'll see me come back to them.
Seriously, congrats to all those who love their hybrids. I just feel I found a better solution for the same price as a gasser, and I wonder why the media drools over hybrids so much.
It most certainly is there. See: actual window sticker
Those big numbers are for comparison sake only. The misconception that they actually indicate what owners can expect is getting way out of hand.
JOHN
1. Why are you paying research for another company; doesn't make economical sense.
2. Yes, after 5 years when you pay off the additional $3,000 premium you paid for a hybrid. Voodoo economics.
3. HOV lanes are based on High occupancy not high mileage and aren't you the one that said you want to go at or belowe the speed limit to obtain hyper mileage even if you held up a string of cars behind you.
4.Still doesn't make hybrid economics work. One has to wonder why the government would offer incentives to promote the hybrid . Not because they altruistic or because they are nice guys; it is only because the government has mandated to get soo many hybrids on the road no matter what.
5. That is not ABSOLUTELY not true; I have a 2005 Honda Accord EX V6 w NAV 6-speed. The NAV computer give instanteous mileage and overage mileage. I have increased by commute mileage by 4 mpg and I didn't have a hybrid.
6. Hybrids are a miniscule part of the polution. If you were really concerned you would look at diesel contruction vehicles. This answer is the first one so far that i agree with!!
7. Everyone cringes when the price of gas goes up,, including hybrid owners, and even those who work for oil companies.
8. Partially true; I feel I am extremely well educated concerning hybirds.
9. LOL Is that the same feeling when acceleration presses you to the back of the seat and you hear that awesome engine sound ?
10. One could always get a bigger tank. I haven't ever experienced this thrill, my bladder is too small and my coffeee intake too high.
11. Huh
12.Huh? maybe less agressive; very few hybirds less than 1%; I actually saw a totaled Prius the other day; it was sickening ( these reasons seem to be getting weaker and WEAKER!!! )
13. Variation of 7 and 10; you really want to count this ??
14.You are kidding me are you. If you really, really believe this I have some swamp land for sale in Florida. Good idea, but I really don't think this will accomplish this.
15. Not oil , most hybrid owners still believe in changing oil every 3,000 miles. This I completely don't understand. The oil filters and contamination have improved significantly in the past 10 or so years , why follow a change schedule that was needed in the 60's and 70's ?
16. A hybrid does not make economical sense, if saving money and TCO ( Total cost of Ownership) is you primary goal. Again this is a repeat of item 2,
17. I already know that I; I don't own a hybrid.
Your arguments are weak and unconvincing.
Have a good day,
MidCow
There are 3 things against the HCH for us. 1) Its a sedan, we already have one. 2) I dont like CVT trannys. 3) No rear disk brakes. Just dont understand that one.
I like to listen to the blowhards here and about the net and in the press dishing hybrids. When you talk face to face with most folks they seem very interested in them and over all have a willingness not to listen to absurd anti hybrid hype.
How can auto stop be a bad thing? And the hybrid a/c compressor. Both wonderful ideas. And the folks freaking out over the battery packs. If they where the problem that so many people think they are, the cars wouldn't even be in production. Hybrids have been around now for what,, 5 or 6 years. Im sure if they where as bad as folks say,,Toyota, Honda, and Ford would be dropping them. And for heavens sake GM would have never made hybrid locomotives at the scale they do.. DUH!!!
As for EPA I expect I will see it. We see it in our Accord and with a bit of care we can smash EPA. Hypermiling we can destroy EPA and not be in the way or a problem in traffic.
To tell you the truth the wife and I have started riding together to get to our jobs in Tulsa. We put about a 100 miles aday each on a car when we both take a car. Since we started riding together in the Accord in two weeks we have saved over 120 bucks in gas. We have also enjoyed slowing down to speed limits. Wife uses the time to read or we just chat and start our days off abit slower. Rides home are just as enjoyable.
If for some reason we dont end up with a hybrid and end up with a 06 Civic EX Coupe. It wont be because of BS stated here or in other places in the media. It will be because its a sedan or no rear drum brakes or not enough features on the Insight ot the darn CVT tranny. Test drives, ins. cost also weight in. Not becuse there dangures, or dont have resale. Heck when wife and I are done with cars they never have resale value. There worn out. LMAO
No matter what we buy,, we will see EPA and plan on surpassing it. :shades:
Like you, I plan to buy a 2006 Prius also and I have not seen anything here or elsewhere to convince me otherwise.
My point on break even is for comparing similar vehicles. In addition, trading in a low miles few year old car on a Prius is usually not economically justified, unless the trade is worth a lot. One of my cars is, another isn't.
My personal record was set 2 tanks ago at 941miles @ 69.2MPG calculated.
This tank looks potentially better as I've crossed 650 miles and still have 1/2 tank left.
Any downside to buying a Honda Civic Hybrid, especially with the new improvements for 2006?
Pushing 70MPG, I just can't think of any.
Perhaps with new diesel purity stds (lower sulfur) it will be taxed less in states that put a premium on environmental friendliness. I can't decide what's worse... wasting more gas or using less diesel but polluting more. In the end the U.S. is WAY too dependent on oil, so more options (diesel, hybrid, whatever) can only be good in the long run.
Where I live diesel is a bit cheaper, but mostly it hovers around the same price as gas, so it makes a lot of sense. I'm not in stop-n-go traffic much either, so hybrids really didn't win there for me.
EPA estimates are not way off on most cars. The car that is the farthest off seems to be the Toyota Prius. Apparently, the Prius is ideally suited to achieve very high mileage on the EPA mileage measurement test and the same mpg can not be achieve in real-world driving. Most other cars achieve close to EPA estimates if driven conservatively in real-world driving conditions.
YOMV,
MidCow
That is excellent!, enjoy your 2004 Prius. It is just that most Prius owners tend to get in the low 40's mpg. Which would be great, except the car is EPA rated at 60/51.
YMMV,
MidCow
H'mm if that is true why did you buy a Honda Civic Hybrid instead?
Yes the Prius is great, but it is not an economy car except in high mpg.
"very well equipped" Yes Prius is extremely well equipped except low perfromance, no manual transmission, no sunroof, no rear disc brakes and no upgraded suspension comfort or handling components. Ohterwise it is a very well equipped car: Xexons, NAV, skid control, smart key and for 2006 leather and backup camera.
"midsize" - small "midsize" and that is only because in a hatchback the area above the hatch area is included or else it would be compact size.
"diesel" Yes, VW has some very high miles per gallon cars and they polute more than conventional ICDEs or the by far the Prius. This will all probably change when low sulpher comes to the US in the next couple of years and Honda, BMW and Mercedes bring their diesels back over here.
One has to wonder why in Europe where gas prices are twice as high as the US that diesels are the vehicle or choice and there are very few hybrids.
YMMV,
MidCow I want a 5-speed Insight w/AC for a commuter car
H'mm if that is true why did you buy a Honda Civic Hybrid instead?
Yes the Prius is great, but it is not an economy car except in high mpg.
"very well equipped" Yes Prius is extremely well equipped except low perfromance, no manual transmission, no sunroof, no rear disc brakes and no upgraded suspension comfort or handling components. Ohterwise it is a very well equipped car: Xexons, NAV, skid control, smart key and for 2006 leather and backup camera.
"midsize" - small "midsize" and that is only because in a hatchback the area above the hatch area is included or else it would be compact size.
"diesel" Yes, VW has some very high miles per gallon cars and they polute more than conventional ICDEs or the by far the Prius. This will all probably change when low sulpher comes to the US in the next couple of years and Honda, BMW and Mercedes bring their diesels back over here.
One has to wonder why in Europe where gas prices are twice as high as the US that diesels are the vehicle or choice and there are very few hybrids.
YMMV,
MidCow I want a 5-speed Insight w/AC for a commuter car
I did not even shop Hybrids, so Prius was not really an issue in my decision. I went in to a Honda dealership to buy a used car, and the Hybrid on the lot had what I needed for a good price, so I bought it. I kind of "stumbled into" my hybrid, and I have loved every second of the experience. ( Well, other than the time I spend on Edmunds defending Hybrids to all the naysayers; I don't love that part.)
And regardless of "why" the Prius is a midsize, it IS a midsize, and it does deliver more MPG than any other midsize in the USA, including the VW diesels, and at least as many creature comforts of some cars costing far more money.
quote midcow-"One has to wonder why in Europe where gas prices are twice as high as the US that diesels are the vehicle of choice and there are very few hybrids."-end quote
Then wonder no more my amigo - here is the answer:
Diesel fuel is taxed less over there, so diesel fuel is thus cheaper, so the running fuel costs for diesel cars is cheaper. That's the ONLY reason. Their air is dirty, they have grimy black particulate buildup on some of their buildings, and some towns have even FORBID use of diesel engine cars on certain days.
Hybrids are making some minor headway in Europe, but with gas prices higher than diesel, they still have a tough time over there.
No sunroof- To each his own... hate them.. had it in my previous cars and I never used it
Rear discs- Nice, but not need, regen braking along with front discs really is fine for the Prius. 60-0 in 129 feet.
Have a look at Greenhybrid... their Prius average is 48+.
This topic is here for discussion of possible downsides of buying hybrids. It is not here to be a battleground between hybrid enthusiasts and those who have their doubts.
1. Uncertainty of resale costs. This will be impacted by several factors: a) How well the public comes to accept the technology, b) Actual long term reliability and maintenance (especially the battery replacement issue, c)upcoming availablity of other technology (low sulfur diesel, CNG, hydrogen), and d) cost of gasoline - obviously, higher gas cost = more interest in the technology.
2. Uncertainty of battery life (there is a whole forum for this one, no point in rehashing it here).
3. To get high MPG, you have to drive a relatively small vehicle. The Prius seats 5, with 16 cu ft of cargo if you stuff it to the ceiling. That is small compared with the capacity of most mid-sized (or even compact) SUVs. (Of course, you can hybridize an SUV as well).
4. To get the best MPG, you have to modify your driving style (yes, I know that is also true of the ICE only vehicles, but it shows up in higher differences with the hybrids, because they have so much higher potential MPG).
5. Lack of true off road capability (detriment to hybrid SUV). The current AWD versions can have problems with overheating the electric motors in off road conditions.
6. High initial purchase cost (compared to a similar sized ICE only vehicle) due to limitied availablity, and the cost of adding the hybrid components.
7. The technology is not easy for the average person to understand - mixing electricity and gasoline doesn't seem right in many people's mind. Or as they say back home: "That just ain't natural!"
BTW, there are certainly "upsides" to hybrids as well, but this forum is for the "downsides". Go figure... :confuse:
1- Resale costs are currently better than most cars. There have been a few articles on this already. Bottom line... resale costs remain better than average.
2-Battery issues....just that NOT. 150,000 mile warranty in CA/NY etc.... 100,000 elsewhere.
3-The Prius with rear seats down can swallow 2 bikes. The back seat is more roomy than an Acura RL.
4- I achieve low 50's mileage, keep temp @ 74 and drive 60-65 on the highway. No mods to my driving style at all. When I thrash it and drive 80-85, I get low 40's.
5- Who drives a conventional car off road?
6- High cost? That's your opinion. Paying 26k for a fully loaded Prius with all the technology is a bargain. A fully loaded Civic 06 will cost 21.5k. Depends what you can afford. To me, it was the cheapest car I've purchased in quite some time. Also my favorite car of all time.
7- Electricity and gas have been partners in cars for years. How does your spark plug ignite?
Even when Low Sulfer engines come in ...If EVER.... they will they will be hard to find...at least until there is a heavy volume of Diesel Cars...and some states will not allow the Cars or the Fuel for emvironmental reasons....
Hybrids are Clean..Quiet...Pass no foul oders...
Little or No Hi-breds in europe...They are made in Japan...Which can't even Make enough to satisify the US market...Why would they bother to try and break in a new market until they have enough production.
"When that happens the original hybrids will be close to the end of their useful lives. The owners will be grinning about all the bucks they saved on fuel. "
It all depends on how you define "close to the end of their useful lives" because remember on of the downside of buying a hybrid over the conventional equivalent gas car is the higher initial cost of $3000-$5000 which based on gas pricing takes 5-7 years to recover.
Conservatively at 5 years the hybrid versus gas engine (ICE) will break even and at years 6,7, 8 and beyond the hybrid owner will save bucks on fuel.
So assuming the useful life is beyond the (5-7) year break-even and assuming the owner still has the hybrid, then YES I agree with your statement.
Also, don't forget the time value of money. Assuming a modest cost premium of $3,000 and a modest inflation rate of 3% 5 years in the future that money is actually worth (1.03)^5 * 3000 = $3,477.82
The initial cost premium is a pretty significant downside!
cruis'n in 6th :shades: ,
MidCow
Hybrids are Clean..Quiet...Pass no foul oders...
Little or No Hi-breds in europe...They are made in Japan...Which can't even Make enough to satisify the US market...Why would they bother to try and break in a new market until they have enough production."
Well, here are the responses, in order:
If the low sulfur diesel becomes available and the manufacturors make the vehicles, CARB will allow them into California. Emissions are the whole point behind low sulfur diesel.
If they are allowed in, they will not have odors. Quiet is another story; we'll have to wait and see.
There are few hybrids in Europe because they are not very much better at MPG than diesels, which sell wildly over there and are very popular. It is not a matter of production, it is a matter of market interest.
1- Resale costs are currently better than most cars. There have been a few articles on this already. Bottom line... resale costs remain better than average.
The question is not resale costs now, but in about 3-4 years; that is an unknown.
2-Battery issues....just that NOT. 150,000 mile warranty in CA/NY etc.... 100,000 elsewhere.
How about at 250K miles? Here in California, cars don't rust out.
3-The Prius with rear seats down can swallow 2 bikes. The back seat is more roomy than an Acura RL.
I afraid I just don't understand that response. My specification was seating for 5 and 40 cubic feet, and the example provided is room for 2 and two bikes. Well, I grant that is true, and is exactly the downside of most hybrids (the 3 SUV models being the exception, but they don't get really high MPG).
4- I achieve low 50's mileage, keep temp 74 and drive 60-65 on the highway. No mods to my driving style at all. When I thrash it and drive 80-85, I get low 40's.
I think your example demonstrates the point quite well: You are limiting your use of A/C, and if you don't drive carefully, your mileage decreases by 20%. And at the lower number, you are approaching MPG that can be achieved by a similar sized ICE vehicle running with A/C blowing at full blast.
5- Who drives a conventional car off road?
You may have missed the fact that this item applied to the hybrid SUVs.
6- High cost? That's your opinion. Paying 26k for a fully loaded Prius with all the technology is a bargain. A fully loaded Civic 06 will cost 21.5k. Depends what you can afford. To me, it was the cheapest car I've purchased in quite some time. Also my favorite car of all time.
Thanks for the example; I think you have demonstrated that the Prius costs $5,500 more than a similarly equipped Civic. I can't vouch for those numbers, but (if accurate) that is about 25% more, pretty significant in my book. The question is not affordability, which varies with income; it is the difference in price compared with other cars of similar size.
7- Electricity and gas have been partners in cars for years. How does your spark plug ignite?
Sorry; I should have been more specific so people wouldn't get confused. The spark plug ignites via electricity to explode gasoline, which provides the power to the wheels via the transmission. This is a well known and widely understood process. Hybrids use electric motors to power the wheels in various combinations with conventional engines. It is that mixture of propulsions that is somewhat foreign to some consumers. That is a different concept, and not as easy for people to understand.
Anyway, I'm glad you like your wheels. Enjoy your Prius; it is a fine car.
Initial CR satisfaction ratings on new models are like J.D. Powers & Associates Initial Quality awards - all too often much ado about nothing.
Cheers,
MidCow
I never said it wasn't a great car. I started reading these Forums because I wanted to get educated in Hybrid technology for my next auto purchase. I have learned a lot.
I mostly post because I cannot stand poor logic. There are many people who post here with great arguments, others with great emotion (but rather less thought), and some with both logic and emotion.
This particular forum is one I feel my opinion warrents posting - I have considered the upsides and downsides of Hybrids for some time.
If you get anything resembling good logic, let me know.....
Really, though, there downsides to ANYcar purchase, because NO car is perfect. Any car purchase will have downsides as well as upsides.
As a logical, though-driven buyer, you choose the car with the fewest downsides. For me personally, the extra $1524 I paid for my Hybrid over the comparable EX was a good choice, and the downside of the extra $1524 was outweighed by my emotion of wanting the 48 MPG performance.
That's just me...........
Why do I think that "THEY" should listen to "US"? Because we can assist in making a hybrid car even better. How many times have you thought of something wrong with your car only to shrug it off because there seemed to be no one to relay it to that cared. Well, I contacted Toyota and suggested they give this site a look-see and time will tell if it works.
Railroadjames
If you drive 15,000 miles a year and get 25 mpg...you will use 600 gallons of gas at 3.00 per gallon that is $1800...If you get just 50mpg in your preis you will save $900 per year...you will also drive a very green car...and you will have the most advanced Hybrid system available today.
Costco quoted me a price on a fully loaded Preis of $3000 under invoice. (unfortunately it was after I had paid full price.)
Call them and ask...Others may want to also.
I live in Washington ST. If it makes any difference...I the Top package they sell (6) with some extra's ...With tax and License and everything else, I paid $29,357...The MSRP Price was $26,742.
As I mentioned I didn't find out about Cosco until after I had already bought the car...I also paid $800 extra to have Leather installed. My wife reminded me of that it is her car...
From the time I started looking...It was less then 30 days for me to pick up the car...They all talk about the 3-6 month wait but if you are real agressive and let them know you want it now and what color...You can get one....At least out west.
If you get anything resembling good logic, let me know.....
Really, though, there downsides to ANYcar purchase, because NO car is perfect. Any car purchase will have downsides as well as upsides.
As a logical, though-driven buyer, you choose the car with the fewest downsides. For me personally, the extra $1524 I paid for my Hybrid over the comparable EX was a good choice, and the downside of the extra $1524 was outweighed by my emotion of wanting the 48 MPG performance."
Ah, larsb, at last we agree on something!
After a quick search, there are no problems listed which are related to the fact that the vehicle is a hybrid, if that's what you are looking for.
As far as I know, and I frequent these websites a lot, there are no known problems with the "Hybrid drive system" in either the Highlander Hybrid or it's upscale brother the Lexus RX400h.
On Friday morning (9/23/05) we were in the car -- only two short blocks from home when the Message area in the center of the dash came on with different messages... Check Hybrid System... Check AWD... Check FSW (or something along those lines)... then the warning light icons started lighting up... the anti skid icon and others, then check engine... then the motors went DEAD!!! The car shut down and wouldn't start.
Called for a tow as we couldn't get it started. Got down to Toyota and while they were nice enough it seemed like the underlying response was -- "what are you doing wrong?!" as one mechanic put it... "I drove it for 70 miles and never experienced a problem with your car!"...
Well, maybe but that was last Friday and I still haven't heard from the service dept. They are dealing with Toyota headquarters and the problem is out of the handsof the local Toyota dealership.
This is a no brainer -- it's the computer system! They should just give us a new car -- we only had under 2,000 miles on it.
jackdaddy, "2006 Hybrid Toyota Highlander" #1726, 26 Sep 2005 10:33 pm
If you get anything resembling good logic, let me know..... "
Here's some logic for ya, Mr Green Jeans:
If their Hummer and your Civic trade kinetic energy in a collision, guess whose kids walk away and whose are carried away?