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Volkswagen Passat 2006+

Evolutionary design changes should improve the Passat's performance and refinement while maintaining the likable character that has made it so popular.

http://www.edmunds.com/future/2006/volkswagen/passat/100293783/pr- eview.html?tid=edmunds.f.mmindex.content.num6.0.volkswagen*

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  • Edmunds future cars section states the '06 Passat will resemble the Pheaton in styling.

    It seems logical to me that the 2006 Passat is actually the short V6 Phaeton sold in Europe now but not in the USA. I could'nt understand why VW didn't sell the short Phaeton here since it's front wheel drive and much much cheaper. Now, I think I know the answer. It's b/c it will be the new Passat here.If so, VW is going to have a tough time keeping the price tag under 40K.Maybe VW wants the Passat to compete w/ the upscale cars here.(only a quess)
    I have to decide if it's worth the wait for the 2006 Passat which is coming out in fall 2005, or buy a Acura TL now. The other possibility is waiting for the 2006 Toyota Avalon which is coming out in early 2005. Why don't these guys introduce their new models at the same time so the decision would be quicker and easier?
  • chidorochidoro Posts: 125
    It actually reminds me of the current Altima more than the Phaeton, especially the rear.
  • When you say the Passat reminds you of the Altima, I think you're referring to the 2005 Passat, not the 2006 which is'nt out yet, and is due in the fall of 2005.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    "It seems logical to me that the 2006 Passat is actually the short V6 Phaeton sold in Europe now but not in the USA."

    VW has succeeded in covering up this un-Audi-ish new Passat by disguising it as an Audi-based Phaeton.

    But you can't hide, 'cause this FWD car actually followed the more-intelligent Focus design w/ Control Blade 4-link rear suspension & transversely mounted engine. VW really hired the Focus engineers to do the new Passat's rear suspension.

    BMW almost adopted the RWD-ready Focus platform in the late '90's for its future entry-level car, but decided not to risk its upscale snob reputation & therefore changed its mind. In order to excel, BMW had to apply a 5-link rear-suspension design in the new 1-series.
  • Interesting!

    I remember reading once that Focus hired VW engineers to do the Focus suspensions

    I wish to know more on suspension, what type of multi-link suspension does current Passat have ? What is the difference between 5 link and Control Blade 4-link suspension ? Any website where we can get more info with some pictures ?

    Thank you.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    "I remember reading once that Focus hired VW engineers to do the Focus suspensions"

    Are you serious? I've heard of VW/Audi people did the styling, either the interior or the exterior, of the new '05 Focus II, but the suspension?

    The Control Blade 4-link rear suspension is the cost cutting way to reproduce the old Mondeo wagon's 4-link, which is pretty similar to the Mazda6's 4-link.

    The current FWD Passat's rear suspension is shared w/ the '96 A4, but a couple years ago the redesigned A4 upgraded it into the AWD model's multi-link, which I'm not sure exactly what it is. So whatever the current Passat rides on, it's either the semi-independent trailing-arm similar to the Golf/Jetta I, II, III & IV, or worse, the non-independent from the old Audi 100, 90 & 80, Fox, etc. Can some one answer this question?

    "I wish to know more on suspension, what type of multi-link suspension does current Passat have ?"

    So the current Passat is the only member in the "Audi" family left w/o the multi-link rear, unless it's an AWD model.
  • Thanks Crekid1, may be it's the styling and not the suspention on Focus, I'll post the link to the article if I find it.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,669
    200hp standard 280hp in V6 model

     

    image
  • carlisimocarlisimo Posts: 1,280
    Big thumbs up from me.
  • The new styling is interesting, but it seems a little out of proportion to me--like the wheelbase is too short. The car would look better with shorter front and rear overhangs, and it would probably ride better with a longer wheelbase also.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,669
    Partially agree...I think it would look a little better if it had a shorter front overhang, but I don't think it looks "out of proportion".

     

    The reason it may look long is because we're looking at pictures, as opposed to the real thing.

     

    I think maybe the front end looks long because of the "snout" on it. It appears that the front starts to curve in right where the headlight starts; so if we look at if from a side view it appears that the very front bumper is farther from the wheels than it should be.

     

    I think a top view of the front may better show what’s going on.

     

    Either way…looks gorgeous.

    image
  • Yeah but it's a VW and worst it's german. Last time I checked they were building such quality cars the Japanese were running scared. Better sell my poor quality G35 to get this one. Hopefully they integrated the tow hooks under the front for easy access.
  • You are right. It may look better in person than it does in photos. Overall, I think VW did a nice job with the exterior styling. The previous generation Passat has been copied by the Altima and the Ford 500/Mercury Montego, and it is said that imitation is the highest form of flattery. I would have liked another 3 inches or so in wheelbase, however.

     

    How does one respond to sapparo's post (#15)? Yes, the G35 has higher reliability ratings than the Passat. But the Passat did get a recommended rating by Consumer reports (except 4 motion I believe). All cars are more reliable than they used to be. A rating of average is now good. Better than average is excellent. I would avoid buying a vehicle that was significantly below average. VW knows they have quality problems especially with the Golf/Jetta, and they are working to correct this. Assuming that the new Passat will regularly need tow hooks is a little premature at this point IMO.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    If it was that bad VW would have been bankrupt twenty years ago. If it was that bad VW would not have such a loyal following. If it was that bad everybody owning a VW would be in financial difficulty by paying hefty maintenance fees.

     

    G35(yawn) is good but does not come close to performance- handling of most German sport sedans as the BMW 3 series and the new and upcoming Audi A4.

     

    I recommend you do sell the G35 soon for the upcoming 6 cyl Passat, Audi A4 or Bmw 3 series. It is no coincidence that Japanese companies try so hard to mimic German sport sedans but never really achieve success.

     

    Better luck Sapporo with your purchase of the new Passat. I guarantee you will love it!
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Yeah VW is having problems because of many vehicles late in the product cycle. This has been obvious for quite a while.

     

    The G35 is 10 percent short of a BMW and merely a pretentious Altima. Not much of a boast is it.

     

    Regarding quality differeces---this is not the 80s when the market had problematic Yugos, Jags, and Hyundai's.

     

    Also to buy a car solely based on reliability stats to me indicates someone who views his cars with little passion.

     

    If reliability is your sole aim, buy a Hyundai. Have you seen the reliability stats on them, it is quite impressive.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    http://money.cnn.com/2004/12/08/pf/autos/residual_value/index.htm- - ?cnn=yes

     

    As you probably know, retained values of used cars are closely linked to reliability. No used car buyer wants to end up with a lemon? Right! I mean most resales are not even covered by warranty.

     

    Well if you refer to the link above, notorious unreliable VW is #4 in retained values. Higher than Subarus or Mazdas.

     

    If VW was as bad as Sappora and Bobcat claims, retained values of VW would be close to the bottom not Number 4.

     

    Oh and by the way did you notice the luxury car company with the highest retained value. Sorry Sapporo it is not Infiniti or Lexus, but BMW(another notoriously unreliable German car)
  • . . .fully loaded this thing should come in south of $40,000! It is bigger than the current Passat, smaller than the new A6, AWD, smart key, DVD navi system -- more HP than the new Audi 3.2 engine variant (note: I'll bet Audi will crank up the HP of the 3.2, just like it has done with prior iterations of its engine family) -- shazam! An A5 by any other name. Indeed, this would seem to come in about on par with the last gen A6 (in terms of size, etc.)

     

    Now, who knows for sure, but it seems to me that the new upcoming in March, 2005, A4 3.2 with all options will be north of $42,000. Yea, I know it (the Audi) is in the Premium segment and I suspect this will be in the "near-Premium" class.

     

    But, this Passat is sure a sweetie and looks to be another up market move for VW. There seems to be an attempt to differentiate this from the Audis, too -- different engine, different engine orientation, different AWD drive.

     

    It would seem this is a real step toward making VW be much more than an Audi-lite, as the Passat, particularly has been of late.

     

    I will be out of the market when this comes to our shores, but based on the press release, this would be a contender. This certainly reads like it would be at $38,000 a potential rival for the A6, comparably equipped at $52,000 (yea, I know the new A6 has a longer wheelbase and is "more car" -- but this certainly is coming in at a "slow down and look me over" price even for us died in the wool Audi fans!)

     

    Bravo VW, Bravo!
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    This is getting to be a delightful dialogue, Sapporo.

     

    I guess that means you do not understand the concept of platform sharing! Nothing wrong with that Sapporo. No need to get angry.

     

    "Smarter product planning, execution with more intelligent design and much better reliability"

     

    Yes and you forgot one thing. Nissan makes big profits with platform sharing. This save a lot money in r&d.
    As Altima, Maxima and G35 share the same platform(this is not a clue it is a fact)

     

    Anyway it appears we are getting out of topic here. Why dont you check the following Edmunds site. You will notice there are quite a few Happy campers owning German cars. They are certainly more happy than you are.

     

    randomguy11111, "Reliability and long-term costs of ownership - MB, BMW, VW/AUDI compared" #, 12 Mar 2003 1:18 pm

     

     
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,669
    Back to the passat.

     

    To me, the interior looks like a refined 5 series...like if they could do it all over again this is what they would have created. Would be nice to see one in wood.

     

    image
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,669
    Perhaps we should create a 2005 (2006?) Passat vs G35 form. We could all "git it on" in there.

     

    Maybe even throw the TL in there...I hear they can get feisty as well.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Back to the Passat indeed,

     

    this car does not only look good but it can compete with vehicles far more expensive. Do not only love the looks, but also the specs.

     

    I am hoping that soon after the sedan a new Passat TDI wagon 4 motion will be introduced. Love the TDI engine with 170hp and incredible torque. I dont know if this model will exist in N. America?

     

    Your proposal for a G35 vs. Passat site. No thanks I think I had enough for a life time. In fact it was quite senseless.
  • Think peaceful, non-strident thoughts, indeed.

     

    I agree with the concept that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I keep reading that there are lots of people who are fans of Japanese cars and German cars and so on.

     

    I keep finding more and more sites on the web for "fans of the brand" -- I found a mopar site an audi site an acura site and heck there is probably a site dedicated to the Ford Falcon and other obscure or perhaps one might erroneously conclude brand that would not merit a fan club.

     

    I have never owned a Japanese car -- I plan to test, eventually, the new RL (and the new Audi A4 3.2 and the Chrysler 300C AWD and/or SRT-8 AWD). I have some time to play with ~ 6 months until my lease or milage limit is reached.

     

    I have been so well treated by Audi of America, the Audi Club and my specific dealer, it will be a hard fought battle to move me off of Audi.

     

    This forum, sometimes in spite of sometimes because of its rancor, has made me willing to look beyond the VW/Audi group.

     

    Nothing in my VAST experience with Audi, BMW and VW (other than the historically high prices of BMW's compared with Audis, for example) since 1978 would make me call them junk or whatever other epithet was thrown around here recently.

     

    Nothing can make me have an experience based opinion about Japanese cars -- two of my associates have Acuras, one has about a million miles on it -- the thing is a 1997 and, frankly it is a piece of junk (all things considered it probably was nice about 800,000 miles ago) -- the other young man (he is in his 30's) has a 2001 or 2002 Acura and he says he likes to visit in from time to time in the shop, it is apparently there so much.

     

    Do these two personal stories mean much -- probably not. My personal experience with Audi and VW (including some old Jettas, Sciroccos, Quantums and Passats) since 1977 has made me think these cars are fantastic. I do not think they are bullet proof. Perhaps the Infinity and Nissan lines are.

     

    Disclosure time: both Honda and Toyota (divisions) are my clients. Both Honda and Toyota executives have ONLY respect for Honda and Toyota, by that I mean the Honda folks respect both Honda and Toyota and ditto the Toyota folks.

     

    I cannot in good faith disclose too much information but the only company these two companies think is worse than the Nissan group is Mitsubishi -- and they have some really funny, not even really off color stories that they tell about the "poor quality" of these two brands, especially Mitsu.

     

    Indeed, these folks only seem to have concern -- from Asia -- about what the Koreans might be up to or at least capable of in the future.

     

    Both H and T seem concerned about erosion of the brand and are wanting to move the perception of their brands both "up market" and to a "younger market." Hmmm, this sounds like: Chrysler, General Motors, Ford, Mercedes, Subaru, Volvo and on and on and on.

     

    Currently both H and T, while "knowing" their cars are very reliable, also acknowledge the loss of some youth appeal and an appeal to a performance oriented buyer. Audi and BMW, to name two, do not seem to have this issue at least.

     

    Perhaps the Germans, or the Europeans in general, do not have the reliability thing going for them -- but they certainly do have the "no boring cars" thing down pretty well.

     

    I heard that is why the next Camry will come with an available 275HP engine. I can say this now that it is no longer protected by my NDA.

     

    Love this town-hall.

     

    Love the first amendment. But find it somewhat hard to understand harsh statements from a non-participant in the (whatever) brand.

     

    I really like the new Acura RL -- on paper, for example. Haven't driven it -- I also loved the TL on paper, found driving it was a huge let down due to massive torque steer.

     

    Its reliability may not be at issue, but it certainly was not a driver's car.

     

    The new Passat at $38K fully maxed -- still reads like a bargain.

     

    I've been wrong before.

     

    P.S., while the Phaeton has been a disappointment, it, according to some articles is not THAT far behind where they thought it would be -- these things take time.

     

    Now if they drop it like a hot rock next year, well then our friend (above) will be (future tense) proven correct.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,890
    but some off-topic, hostile posts have been removed. This topic is reserved for the upcoming Passat redesign - plenty of other places to discuss German v other reliability. Thanks!

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  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    http://media.vw.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=9501

    "Draught-free Climatronic Ventilation" eh!

     

    This is a Phaeton eater, & hence an A8 eater as well, by riding on the Focus-technology Control Blade rear suspension w/ transversely mounted engine.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    Just in time to embarrass the more cramped but similarly priced car w/ the Control Blade rear suspension & transversely mounted engine -- the new Volvo S40/V50.

     

    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/ae_news_story.php?id=52674
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    This Passat does look like compelling value versus A8 or Phaeton or other expensive marques.

    If new Passat is priced too high it will turn off potential buyers(despite the fact it may be worth every penny). If they keep the prices the same, the new Passat may cannibalize sales from the new Jetta(in Canada they hiked the prices quite a bit for the Jetta).

     

    Not an easy pricing decision.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,669
    I seriously doubt the new Passat is meant to even remotely compete with the Phaeton or A8.

     

    The Passat is on a different platform than the A8/Phaeton or A6; they utilize the ASF.

     

    The new Jetta 2.0T seems perfectly slotted (power/size), to take over where the previous Passat 2.8 left off. There is always a slight overlap between models of the same manufacturer...which I think is desirable.

     

    The new Passat contains some very compelling features and power to match. My only misgivings would be 280hp (I'm very interested in seeing torque graphs) on the Golf platform, but from what I read the new platform is exceptional.

     

    I potentially see loaded 3.6 Passat's cannibalizing 3.2 A6's, but I could guarantee that you would be giving up a higher level of luxury, refinement, and prestige.

     

    The loaded Passat, in the near luxury category, is a competitive segment. After all, for 38K you can buy a lot of car (insert what you think that means here) from other manufactures.

     

    I paid less than that (38k), negotiated price, for my 99.5 A6...but with the new Passat stating it is more rigid than the previous model, which was based on the A6 platform, perhaps the new Passat will be superior to the previous A6 (chassis).

     

    On paper the Passat looks like it would the trump others, but so did the Phaeton (never driven one...maybe it does.).
  • mariner7mariner7 Posts: 509
    I think VW is in for some rough times in NA. Rumor is it's losing a cool billion in USA alone this year, fact is BMW's going to be the top European seller this year and for the foreseeable future, all because of VW's avoidable missteps.

     

    To make money, VW will have to sell more than 300K. To do that, Passat will have to fight it out in the meat segment of the market with Camry/Accord/Altima, three huge volume models. But what does VW do? It pulls Phaeton II and brings out a Passat to compete with A6, not A4! I'm sure it's a great car. But what will it do to VW volume, and does A4/A6 need another competitor from within the family.

     

    VW's going to fall behind Acura in volume in a really short time.
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