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Volkswagen Passat 2006+
Kirstie_H
Administrator Posts: 11,148
in Volkswagen
Evolutionary design changes should improve the Passat's performance and refinement while maintaining the likable character that has made it so popular.
http://www.edmunds.com/future/2006/volkswagen/passat/100293783/pr- eview.html?tid=edmunds.f.mmindex.content.num6.0.volkswagen*
http://www.edmunds.com/future/2006/volkswagen/passat/100293783/pr- eview.html?tid=edmunds.f.mmindex.content.num6.0.volkswagen*
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It seems logical to me that the 2006 Passat is actually the short V6 Phaeton sold in Europe now but not in the USA. I could'nt understand why VW didn't sell the short Phaeton here since it's front wheel drive and much much cheaper. Now, I think I know the answer. It's b/c it will be the new Passat here.If so, VW is going to have a tough time keeping the price tag under 40K.Maybe VW wants the Passat to compete w/ the upscale cars here.(only a quess)
I have to decide if it's worth the wait for the 2006 Passat which is coming out in fall 2005, or buy a Acura TL now. The other possibility is waiting for the 2006 Toyota Avalon which is coming out in early 2005. Why don't these guys introduce their new models at the same time so the decision would be quicker and easier?
VW has succeeded in covering up this un-Audi-ish new Passat by disguising it as an Audi-based Phaeton.
But you can't hide, 'cause this FWD car actually followed the more-intelligent Focus design w/ Control Blade 4-link rear suspension & transversely mounted engine. VW really hired the Focus engineers to do the new Passat's rear suspension.
BMW almost adopted the RWD-ready Focus platform in the late '90's for its future entry-level car, but decided not to risk its upscale snob reputation & therefore changed its mind. In order to excel, BMW had to apply a 5-link rear-suspension design in the new 1-series.
I remember reading once that Focus hired VW engineers to do the Focus suspensions
I wish to know more on suspension, what type of multi-link suspension does current Passat have ? What is the difference between 5 link and Control Blade 4-link suspension ? Any website where we can get more info with some pictures ?
Thank you.
Are you serious? I've heard of VW/Audi people did the styling, either the interior or the exterior, of the new '05 Focus II, but the suspension?
The Control Blade 4-link rear suspension is the cost cutting way to reproduce the old Mondeo wagon's 4-link, which is pretty similar to the Mazda6's 4-link.
The current FWD Passat's rear suspension is shared w/ the '96 A4, but a couple years ago the redesigned A4 upgraded it into the AWD model's multi-link, which I'm not sure exactly what it is. So whatever the current Passat rides on, it's either the semi-independent trailing-arm similar to the Golf/Jetta I, II, III & IV, or worse, the non-independent from the old Audi 100, 90 & 80, Fox, etc. Can some one answer this question?
"I wish to know more on suspension, what type of multi-link suspension does current Passat have ?"
So the current Passat is the only member in the "Audi" family left w/o the multi-link rear, unless it's an AWD model.
http://media.vw.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=9501
The reason it may look long is because we're looking at pictures, as opposed to the real thing.
I think maybe the front end looks long because of the "snout" on it. It appears that the front starts to curve in right where the headlight starts; so if we look at if from a side view it appears that the very front bumper is farther from the wheels than it should be.
I think a top view of the front may better show what’s going on.
Either way looks gorgeous.
How does one respond to sapparo's post (#15)? Yes, the G35 has higher reliability ratings than the Passat. But the Passat did get a recommended rating by Consumer reports (except 4 motion I believe). All cars are more reliable than they used to be. A rating of average is now good. Better than average is excellent. I would avoid buying a vehicle that was significantly below average. VW knows they have quality problems especially with the Golf/Jetta, and they are working to correct this. Assuming that the new Passat will regularly need tow hooks is a little premature at this point IMO.
G35(yawn) is good but does not come close to performance- handling of most German sport sedans as the BMW 3 series and the new and upcoming Audi A4.
I recommend you do sell the G35 soon for the upcoming 6 cyl Passat, Audi A4 or Bmw 3 series. It is no coincidence that Japanese companies try so hard to mimic German sport sedans but never really achieve success.
Better luck Sapporo with your purchase of the new Passat. I guarantee you will love it!
The G35 is 10 percent short of a BMW and merely a pretentious Altima. Not much of a boast is it.
Regarding quality differeces---this is not the 80s when the market had problematic Yugos, Jags, and Hyundai's.
Also to buy a car solely based on reliability stats to me indicates someone who views his cars with little passion.
If reliability is your sole aim, buy a Hyundai. Have you seen the reliability stats on them, it is quite impressive.
As you probably know, retained values of used cars are closely linked to reliability. No used car buyer wants to end up with a lemon? Right! I mean most resales are not even covered by warranty.
Well if you refer to the link above, notorious unreliable VW is #4 in retained values. Higher than Subarus or Mazdas.
If VW was as bad as Sappora and Bobcat claims, retained values of VW would be close to the bottom not Number 4.
Oh and by the way did you notice the luxury car company with the highest retained value. Sorry Sapporo it is not Infiniti or Lexus, but BMW(another notoriously unreliable German car)
Now, who knows for sure, but it seems to me that the new upcoming in March, 2005, A4 3.2 with all options will be north of $42,000. Yea, I know it (the Audi) is in the Premium segment and I suspect this will be in the "near-Premium" class.
But, this Passat is sure a sweetie and looks to be another up market move for VW. There seems to be an attempt to differentiate this from the Audis, too -- different engine, different engine orientation, different AWD drive.
It would seem this is a real step toward making VW be much more than an Audi-lite, as the Passat, particularly has been of late.
I will be out of the market when this comes to our shores, but based on the press release, this would be a contender. This certainly reads like it would be at $38,000 a potential rival for the A6, comparably equipped at $52,000 (yea, I know the new A6 has a longer wheelbase and is "more car" -- but this certainly is coming in at a "slow down and look me over" price even for us died in the wool Audi fans!)
Bravo VW, Bravo!
I guess that means you do not understand the concept of platform sharing! Nothing wrong with that Sapporo. No need to get angry.
"Smarter product planning, execution with more intelligent design and much better reliability"
Yes and you forgot one thing. Nissan makes big profits with platform sharing. This save a lot money in r&d.
As Altima, Maxima and G35 share the same platform(this is not a clue it is a fact)
Anyway it appears we are getting out of topic here. Why dont you check the following Edmunds site. You will notice there are quite a few Happy campers owning German cars. They are certainly more happy than you are.
randomguy11111, "Reliability and long-term costs of ownership - MB, BMW, VW/AUDI compared" #, 12 Mar 2003 1:18 pm
To me, the interior looks like a refined 5 series...like if they could do it all over again this is what they would have created. Would be nice to see one in wood.
Maybe even throw the TL in there...I hear they can get feisty as well.
this car does not only look good but it can compete with vehicles far more expensive. Do not only love the looks, but also the specs.
I am hoping that soon after the sedan a new Passat TDI wagon 4 motion will be introduced. Love the TDI engine with 170hp and incredible torque. I dont know if this model will exist in N. America?
Your proposal for a G35 vs. Passat site. No thanks I think I had enough for a life time. In fact it was quite senseless.
I agree with the concept that everyone is entitled to their opinion. I keep reading that there are lots of people who are fans of Japanese cars and German cars and so on.
I keep finding more and more sites on the web for "fans of the brand" -- I found a mopar site an audi site an acura site and heck there is probably a site dedicated to the Ford Falcon and other obscure or perhaps one might erroneously conclude brand that would not merit a fan club.
I have never owned a Japanese car -- I plan to test, eventually, the new RL (and the new Audi A4 3.2 and the Chrysler 300C AWD and/or SRT-8 AWD). I have some time to play with ~ 6 months until my lease or milage limit is reached.
I have been so well treated by Audi of America, the Audi Club and my specific dealer, it will be a hard fought battle to move me off of Audi.
This forum, sometimes in spite of sometimes because of its rancor, has made me willing to look beyond the VW/Audi group.
Nothing in my VAST experience with Audi, BMW and VW (other than the historically high prices of BMW's compared with Audis, for example) since 1978 would make me call them junk or whatever other epithet was thrown around here recently.
Nothing can make me have an experience based opinion about Japanese cars -- two of my associates have Acuras, one has about a million miles on it -- the thing is a 1997 and, frankly it is a piece of junk (all things considered it probably was nice about 800,000 miles ago) -- the other young man (he is in his 30's) has a 2001 or 2002 Acura and he says he likes to visit in from time to time in the shop, it is apparently there so much.
Do these two personal stories mean much -- probably not. My personal experience with Audi and VW (including some old Jettas, Sciroccos, Quantums and Passats) since 1977 has made me think these cars are fantastic. I do not think they are bullet proof. Perhaps the Infinity and Nissan lines are.
Disclosure time: both Honda and Toyota (divisions) are my clients. Both Honda and Toyota executives have ONLY respect for Honda and Toyota, by that I mean the Honda folks respect both Honda and Toyota and ditto the Toyota folks.
I cannot in good faith disclose too much information but the only company these two companies think is worse than the Nissan group is Mitsubishi -- and they have some really funny, not even really off color stories that they tell about the "poor quality" of these two brands, especially Mitsu.
Indeed, these folks only seem to have concern -- from Asia -- about what the Koreans might be up to or at least capable of in the future.
Both H and T seem concerned about erosion of the brand and are wanting to move the perception of their brands both "up market" and to a "younger market." Hmmm, this sounds like: Chrysler, General Motors, Ford, Mercedes, Subaru, Volvo and on and on and on.
Currently both H and T, while "knowing" their cars are very reliable, also acknowledge the loss of some youth appeal and an appeal to a performance oriented buyer. Audi and BMW, to name two, do not seem to have this issue at least.
Perhaps the Germans, or the Europeans in general, do not have the reliability thing going for them -- but they certainly do have the "no boring cars" thing down pretty well.
I heard that is why the next Camry will come with an available 275HP engine. I can say this now that it is no longer protected by my NDA.
Love this town-hall.
Love the first amendment. But find it somewhat hard to understand harsh statements from a non-participant in the (whatever) brand.
I really like the new Acura RL -- on paper, for example. Haven't driven it -- I also loved the TL on paper, found driving it was a huge let down due to massive torque steer.
Its reliability may not be at issue, but it certainly was not a driver's car.
The new Passat at $38K fully maxed -- still reads like a bargain.
I've been wrong before.
P.S., while the Phaeton has been a disappointment, it, according to some articles is not THAT far behind where they thought it would be -- these things take time.
Now if they drop it like a hot rock next year, well then our friend (above) will be (future tense) proven correct.
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"Draught-free Climatronic Ventilation" eh!
This is a Phaeton eater, & hence an A8 eater as well, by riding on the Focus-technology Control Blade rear suspension w/ transversely mounted engine.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/ae_news_story.php?id=52674
If new Passat is priced too high it will turn off potential buyers(despite the fact it may be worth every penny). If they keep the prices the same, the new Passat may cannibalize sales from the new Jetta(in Canada they hiked the prices quite a bit for the Jetta).
Not an easy pricing decision.
http://www.volkswagen-media-services.com/medias_publish/ms/conten- t/en.standard.gid-oeffentlichkeit.html
The Passat is on a different platform than the A8/Phaeton or A6; they utilize the ASF.
The new Jetta 2.0T seems perfectly slotted (power/size), to take over where the previous Passat 2.8 left off. There is always a slight overlap between models of the same manufacturer...which I think is desirable.
The new Passat contains some very compelling features and power to match. My only misgivings would be 280hp (I'm very interested in seeing torque graphs) on the Golf platform, but from what I read the new platform is exceptional.
I potentially see loaded 3.6 Passat's cannibalizing 3.2 A6's, but I could guarantee that you would be giving up a higher level of luxury, refinement, and prestige.
The loaded Passat, in the near luxury category, is a competitive segment. After all, for 38K you can buy a lot of car (insert what you think that means here) from other manufactures.
I paid less than that (38k), negotiated price, for my 99.5 A6...but with the new Passat stating it is more rigid than the previous model, which was based on the A6 platform, perhaps the new Passat will be superior to the previous A6 (chassis).
On paper the Passat looks like it would the trump others, but so did the Phaeton (never driven one...maybe it does.).
To make money, VW will have to sell more than 300K. To do that, Passat will have to fight it out in the meat segment of the market with Camry/Accord/Altima, three huge volume models. But what does VW do? It pulls Phaeton II and brings out a Passat to compete with A6, not A4! I'm sure it's a great car. But what will it do to VW volume, and does A4/A6 need another competitor from within the family.
VW's going to fall behind Acura in volume in a really short time.
Anything over $30K the Passat will get its clock cleaned in sales by many other near luxury brands. The Acura TL being being a perfect example and it is the segment sales leader selling like hot cakes at $33-36K. VW of late has miscalculated big time with Phaeton blunder. You build market by volume and high quality not be bringing out a white elephant.
VW put its compacts in a niche between economy compacts and "premium" compacts, but there's no such niche in the midsized market.
Other than that, the car looks great (I assume its long nose it borne out of the European pedestrian safety regulations), the interior looks great, and it sounds like VW will give a lot of functions to the electronic emergency brake. How have previous Passats been on torque steer?
All theoretical of course (not being able to drive it)...but if I were about to put down 35K on a new car, I'd take the Passat 3.6 over the TL any day. If they want to discount it 6-7K then it's just that much more attractive.
Not having numbers in front of me, I believe that the Jetta is VW's high selling model. It looks like it will compete favorably against the import masses (Honda, Toyota, Nissan).
Overall...I shop for the "best" auto for the price and don't concern myself with the company's accounting.
We both felt the Jetta (yes) was a much better car than the ES300; just did not impress.
Torque steer? That could be an issue on the non-AWD version.
It may be a failure, and perhaps VW should have made a separate division like Acura and Lexus did when they wanted to take Honda and Toyota upscale.
Before any of the current apparent sales issues with the Pheaton ever came to be known, I remember reading that the Phaeton concept was expected to take time, VW's management had set board expectations thusly.
From all I can tell in "the Press" the Phaeton is (broken record) a lot of car for the money. US dealers apparently don't need gravity they suck so much, to read some of the tales told here and elsewhere.
My barber, there's a good source, eh?, has a new VW Beetle, 10,000 miles on it, loves it, has been in ONE TIME for service -- he still thinks it is a good deal and a great car. He had Japanese (Mazda or Honda I think) before that.
I only know, personally, two dealers in greater Cincinnati -- they seem competent. I dunno about the other dealers, maybe they're all duds.
The Passat with all the stuff outlined with 280 hp and AWD with a 6spd DSG or tip -- if it tops out, rather than starts at $38K, one more time, I'll say bargain.
The W8, from what I can tell suffered from lack of visual cues of its "specialness" and, also, had virtually NO advertising to differentiate it.
If I saw an apparently identical Passat for +$10K, I might be somewhat reluctant -- espeically if the salesperson said "W8" to me -- and I didn't know any better.
But for $33 or $34K the W8's should have flown off the dealer's lots -- of course the largest dealer I know, never had any more than 2 at a time on the lot and only EVER had ONE sport model -- I wanted to drive it, but it sold FAST!
Wonder if anyone was keeping any benchmarks or if they see how well a car sells even with benign neglect.
I hope VW is profitable -- I want my car vendor to be thus. Thinking from a Macro Economic perspective.
Asta La Pizza and Spumoni for all!
)
I did not mean compete, but I meant compelling value compared to the others. It is true that I should not have made this comparison since the Passat and Phaeton are in a different league altogeter. I believe VW is all about--providing compelling value for high quality, not charging premium prices for high quality(leave that to Audi). So if VW provides value, what's the story with the Phaeton. The President of Audi USA lost his job because he said the truth(it was idiotic introduce the Phaeton in the first place) h
If a Passat starts selling close to the prices of A6s or even A4s, then the Passat is toast. I love this new Passat based on the specs and the photos, but I hope I love the price too(then I am a potenital buyer).
Otherwise I will replace my 99 BMW 323 with a new 06 3 series.
In fact Honda introduced the Acura to imitate VW's Audi division in the mid to late 80's.
Now VW is going to imitate Honda's Acura division by introducing a new division seperate from Audi. Does that not sound a bit redundant!
The whole point is the Phaeton disaster should be etched in VW managements brains when they price the new Passat. VW is not a premium price marque because public perception views it as a mainstream model. Charging hefty prices for a Passat will cause VW to lose it mainstream buyers and the many dealers who service these mainstream buyers
You're right, only cars with similar price like the Caddilac Allante can compete with the Mercedes SL. But who was GM trying to fool?
"...perhaps the new Passat will be superior to the previous A6 (chassis)."
& the new A6 chassis as well! Long heavy nose is a wrong design that should no longer exist in the 21th century. Audi will amend that but only in the future. VW is doing it now. So if the new "Focus-ized" Passat is superior to the A6, then it shouldn't be far off from the A8/Phaeton. The current Passat w/ extended wheelbase is already available in China & as the Skoda Superb in Europe. So can the next Passat.
Do people still remember the Legend/RL after the introduction of the TL? Who really needs a car that big? Does it provide limo-like comfort like a Rolls or the S-Class? The A8 rides too hard, & the Phaeton runs out suspension travel on deep bumps.
VW can always import the lower-price Skoda Superb to compete w/ the Camry/Accord. :-)
VW is having problems in Europe because Skodas cannibalizes the sales from Passat.
VW is a large multinational company that has the potential to produce the new Passat at competitive prices. They have a plant in Mexico which can be expanded to produce less costly Passats. VW is thinking of building a plant in USA(does anybody remember the pickup version of the VW Rabbit manufactured in USA). VW has plants in China . VW has plants in other parts of the world where currencies are not that strong. With all these plants VW does not have to rely on Germany to manufacture a costly Passat(reflecting the strong Euro and hefty wages earned in Germany ).
It would be interesting to see the reliability of VWs manufactured in China. In fact it may be scary!
Picked up my luggage, hailed a cab -- which happened to be a new shiny black Skoda Superb (I think it was this model, anyway). The air conditioning vents were dead on current gen Passat, the door pulls and other hardware also Passat -- not Passat-like, Passat.
It is hard to figure price points and make US to European price comparisons -- ALL cars seem to cost more in Europe no matter what. By my conversion, a Passat (not fancy like we see here) in London is about $40,000 US equivalent. A "strippie" A4 in Zurich (with a motor lower in displacement than any we get here) was also pretty close to $40,000 -- for that kind of money a US V6 A4 with most of the options would cost the same.
Anyway, I look at the VW group in Europe and see Skoda, VW and Audi, with VW slowly moving up market to compete with Mercedes and Audi aiming at BMW -- and based on what year you look at sales, Audi pulls ahead of BMW then is passed next by BMW. In Germany, Audi and BMW are closer together than the Bush Kerry popular vote. As I recall, Audi is now in Bush's position probably due in part to the freshness of its product line.
Odd, in Germany Audi and BMW are much closer in price than they are here.
In any case, at age 53, I still view VW as a near premium brand -- I would not think to compare a Passat with a Camry or Accord, apparently I am in a minority.
Working with less than two dozen people, I get to see a lot of cars up close and personal. One of the folks I work with has a 2004 Passat V6, manual transmission. His ONLY critical comment, "the car is under tired." Whenever I ride with him, I think "Audi."
I mentioned earlier, the new Passat sure seems like an Audi A5 -- at A3 or A4 prices.
As I continue to age, VW still seems to retain the image of a driver's car.
To me, VW is moving in the right direction, forward.
I find the Passat wagon drives and handles just as well as the sedan; plenty of room too.
Why bother spending $ to redesign the Passat into some'in different for a car that sells at lower price? The only thing they did was to increase the wheelbase & redesign the rear door into 2-piece glass w/ the C-pillar glass deleted to save $. The China long-wheel-base Passat still kept the Passat rear-door/C-pillar configuration. While that of the Phaeton & especially the next Passat looks more like the Skoda Superb & the Nissan Altima, if also BMW-ish.
A few years ago, a Taiwan car magazine sampled the made-in-China A6 & found the interior craftsmanship superb. From the pictures, the only thing "wrong" or different from the German-made one I spotted was that the dashboard wood-grain lines were lined up vertically rather than horizontally.
you are correct, quality control issues are essential. If VW cannot change the perception that their products are unreliable, they should do what Hyundai did: Offer the best and most comprehensive warranty in the industry . This would provide VW with the strongest incentive to address reliability issues: otherwise their comprehensive warranty commitments will go out of control. This is why Hyundai jumped from the worst reliable manufacturer to among the best.
I know this is not relevent to this forum, but I want to make a correction
I was wrong and you were right.
The Altima,Maxima and Murano all share the same platform.
While the Nissan Z35, Infiniti G35 and FX SUV share another rwd platform.