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2009 Toyota Corolla

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Comments

  • jet10000jet10000 Member Posts: 656
    You can see the torque for the civic here. It is the same 128lb ft.

    http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-sedan/specifications.aspx

    That means, the only difference between the 1.8L is the weaker Corolla engine.

    As for the XRS, yeah perhaps in the quarter mile, it might get a little jump, but after that, the Si with a 197hp engine is going to blow away the 158hp engine in the XRS. I think 158 is a joke for an upgraded engine. That's only 18hp more than a standard Civic and it's estimated to get far worse gas mileage.

    Again, Toyota had the time to build a car that would have better specs than a car Honda released two years ago and it chose to just put very weak engines in them.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    The 158 HP engine is due to be replaced soon. Maybe in less than 2 years.
    It is not competitive with similar sized engines from Honda and Nissan.
    It wouldn't be bad to have less power if it had a fuel economy advantage, but it doesn't.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Again, Toyota had the time to build a car that would have better specs than a car Honda released two years ago and it chose to just put very weak engines in them.

    Yep you are right and since they had that time I guess you can conclude the they did that intentionally. Now the isssue is to figure out 'Why' they did that intentionally.

    These things aren't done at random or by mistake...'Oops Hey did anyone update the engine?'

    If you haven;'t driven the new 1.8L it's much much nicer than the outgoing 1.8L. The 2.4l will just be a big ol motor in a small vehicle. My guess is that they will sell three of them. The other 449.997 sales will be the 1.8L. Ok a slight exageration.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Name the other vehicle.
    ... Vehicle 'A" vs 09 Corolla
    Curb wgt ~ 3150 vs ????
    OAL ... 188.7 vs 178.7
    OAH .... 55.4 vs 57.7
    OAW .... 70.1 vs 69.3
    Whl Base ... 105.2 vs 102.4
    Engine .... 2.2L vs 1.8L
    HP-SAE .... ~125 vs 128
    FE (New) ... 21/31 vs 27/35

    MSRP range $19000 to $26000 vs $17000 to $24000
    Standard safety features:
    ABS vs ABS
    2 airbags vs 6 airbags
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    "Now the isssue is to figure out 'Why' they did that intentionally."

    Maybe it's a case of once burned, twice shy. Or in the case of Toyota lately, thrice burned, four, five times burned? They are taking baby steps with new models for a while, after the Camry burps and the Tundra problems. They delayed the new HL a little bit, and it seems that new model has gotten off to a solid start, so hopefully they are on the right track with the baby steps thing.

    But who would have thought in 1997 that 10 years later Toyota would have to be taking baby steps to deliver new products without glitches.

    I bet they will sell a few more than just 3 of the 2.4L Corollas. As long as the least expensive 2.4L models stay under $20K sticker, which I expect they will manage to do.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    As long as the least expensive 2.4L models stay under $20K sticker, which I expect they will manage to do.

    Yes I assume that they probably will start the 2.4L Corolla's under $20K also. So that brings up this comparo..

    Name the other vehicle.
    ... Vehicle 'A" vs 09 Corolla
    Curb wgt ~ 3150 vs ????
    OAL ... 188.7 vs 178.7
    OAH .... 55.4 vs 57.7
    OAW .... 70.1 vs 69.3
    Whl Base ... 105.2 vs 102.4
    Engine .... 2.2L vs 2.4L
    HP-SAE .... ~125 vs 158
    FE (New) ... 21/31 vs 22/30

    MSRP range $19000 to $26000 vs $19000 to $24000
    Standard safety features:
    ABS vs ABS
    ..... vs VSC/TRAC
    2 airbags vs 6 airbags
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    There will be no SKS or automatic climate control for US 2009 models.

    OTOH...

    A good find from another site. Here is the 2009 Corolla presented on the Canadian website, these pics are not on the US website.

    Note the 6th pic from the left 2009 Corolla
  • colloquorcolloquor Member Posts: 482
    You should be glad you're not buying "an economy car" 30 to 40 years ago. What was the typical engine size and HP ratings for those cars . . . around 1.2L and 60HP. You should consider yourself blessed at 158HP. It's rather amazing that we actually got around just fine, thank you, with those cars at that time, and could easily pick up speeding tickets on the freeways too.

    If you want a pocket rocket, I think you're looking at the wrong car!
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    Maybe they will get that in Canada or maybe the picture is an error. There is no text there describing features for Canada.
    I notice they don't show navi that's shown on all pictures of XLEs and XRSs on the US site.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    I think TMS USA is sandbagging the debut. I'd put a small wager that the top of the line XLE has it all...for just under $25000.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    I think TMS USA is sandbagging the debut. I'd put a small wager that the top of the line XLE has it all...for just under $25000.

    On the US website there is a pic of the XLE interior but taken from just the right angle that the steering wheel hides the 'Power' button. I think that there will an XLE trim and then an upgrade package to the XLE that adds Auto Climate and SKS, then another option ( NV ) that adds Navi, then another ( EJ ) that adds the JBL + BT.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    It seems really odd that they would hide that when they are not hiding navi and bluetooth. They almost always show pictures with every available option.
    It would also be strange if they offered all that and not offer leather on the XLE. It looks like only the XRS has leather.
  • windjammerwindjammer Member Posts: 25
    Name the other vehicle.
    ... Vehicle 'A" vs 09 Corolla


    Uh let me guess! I believe Vehicle 'A' is either a Cadillac CTS or a Hummer H3.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Like the new Highlander, another disaster redesign. The only way they can sell this is to continue offering rebates. :sick:

    The new design is FANTASTIC! The only nitpicking I have is that it took too long, need 5 speed automatic i/o 4 speed, and I prefer Sirius to XM.

    Toyota has continued it's long history of improving an already good thing with the new Corolla design.

    It will continue to be a sales hit.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    quote Ken Bensinger
    The all-new 2009 Corolla, which Toyota Motor Corp. says will go on sale in the U.S. in late February, weighs about 140 pounds more than the 2008 model, adds 2 inches to its waistline and has six more horses under the hood, according to engineers. But it will show little to no improvement in fuel economy, and maybe even a small drop for some versions of the car.
    end
    2009 Corolla
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    It might as well be. I've yet to see a Corolla with VSC since this option was "available". Our distributor has never sent our store one with it and I don't recall seen one on allocations to other dealers. A few years back I did see a Corolla with the leather package going to a dealer in Maryland. My guess it was a special order. I don't expect to see very many XLE's with leather or XRS with leather either.
    Mack
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    And your point is?
    :)
    Mackabee
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Not competitive in what way? Doesn't Toyota outsell Honda and Nissan combined? Camry outsells Accord and Altima, Heck I believe even the Corolla outsells the Altima, Corolla has been outselling the Civic the last three years. So where do you get this "not competitive" stuff? :confuse:
    Mackabee
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    no one has said anything about the lack of body side moldings. The folks at the Camry and Avalon forums went apes**t when these became options. image
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Why are you surprised about something that's no surprise? Just more de-contenting by Toyota. Take something off, then put it back on--the options list or dealer add-on list. To be fair, this is not just Toyota; others are doing this too. The side moldings add cost and weight. Besides, Toyota doesn't have to pay to fix the door dings. :sick:
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    VSC was available in some regions on the current Corolla. I have seen it included on one of the 2 LE options packages in my area off and on the last couple years. The last time I checked and it was in the option group was about 4 months ago. When I checked a week ago, they had reshuffled options again and VSC was no longer in the option package.
    Who knows if it will be any more available on a 2009 than it was on a 2007 or 2008?
    I hate Toyota's lists options that are either never available or rarely available.
    I don't see any other automaker doing this. With other automakers, either the option is commonly available in a popular package or you can easily special order it, wait and get it later. With Toyotas you can't order anything outside of your region's normal packages and have any realistic expectation of ever receiving it.

    Are you sure leather is even an option on the 2009 Corolla XLE? They only picture leather on the XRS.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    I'm not surprised by the lack of them. I am surprised no one on the thread mentioned anything about them. I guess they are more important to older folks than younger generations. Personally I like it without the body side moldings.
    Mack
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    The press room mentions leather as an available option on certain grades. I would take that to mean the XLE and XRS.

    "Additional options on select grades include JBL Audio system with AM/FM six-disc CD changer with eight speakers and Bluetooth®, Navigation system with AM/FM CD with MP3/WMA playback capability and XM® satellite radio with XM NavTraffic® capable with six speakers, leather-trimmed seats and shift knob, tilt and slide moonroof, VSC with TRAC and cut-off switch.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    I would hope they don't do that. That is on the high side of the ladder. I'm thinking around $21,000.00 maybe $22,000.00 Let's face reality. You can get a Camry CE for around $17,990.00 just about anywhere. An LE for another $500-1000 more. So now you have customers begin to wonder whether dishing out 24k for a loaded Corolla is really a smart move. I think they should do the same thing they did with Scion, value packed at a value price. They need to to something that will turn the industry on its head price point wise.
    Mackabee
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Here is my rock solid Sunday morning pick of the week, take it to the bank prediction...

    2.4L Corolla XLE with...
    Base: $19500 ( includes ABS, 6 airbags, VSC/TRAC, Alloys, Sunroof ) .. As opposed to a CE Camry for example

    Options:
    Leather ( LA ) .................... $1150
    JBL+BT ( EJ )....................... $1400
    Navi ( NV )........................... $1200
    SKS + Auto Climate ( SK ).. $1000
    Mats, etc ( Z1 )....................... $279
    Plus Dest, Processing...........- $700


    And to put this into perspective....

    The answer to the questions above, Vehicle "A" was the Gen 3 Camry ( 97 -01 ).

    The '09 Corolla is shorter than the Gen 3 by 10" overall but only 3" in WB, but it's almost the same size everywhere else. However the '09 Corolla...
    ..has more standard safety features,
    ..is more efficient than the 2.2L across the board,
    ..is far more powerful,
    ..is lighter,
    ..has more options such as JBL, BT, Navi,
    ..will cost less than an equivalent Gen3...7 yrars later

    I had two of the Gen3's and thought that they were great vehicles for what they were intended to do. If you told me back then that I could have more, more, more and more for a lesser price????
  • basiliskstbasiliskst Member Posts: 55
    Both the Corolla and Matrix look like re-styling and engineering updates to the current generation and not "all new."

    How is this different than the 2008 Focus re-styling? Neither are fresh sheet of paper designs and very evolutionary. The older bones still show through.

    The Corolla with the newly available 2.4 liter sounds fun.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I guess they [body side moldings] are more important to older folks than younger generations.

    Eh? Is that because younger people have more money to pay for repairing door dings? Or some other reason? :confuse:
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    One difference between the 2009 Corolla and 2008 Focus is that the Corolla claims to have an all-new chassis. I assume this means it has (finally) a fully independent rear suspension, but I didn't see any mention of that in the press release.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    And your point is?

    Mackabee


    What is my point?

    Is bigger better?
    Was the current Corolla too small?
    Does Toyota have a commitment to fuel economy and the environment?

    Mazda is making their new models lighter than previous at the same time increasing safety and fuel economy.

    VW Rabbit uses 6 speed automatic.
    Honda Civic uses 5 speed automatic.
    Nissan Sentra uses a CVT.
    Mazda3 uses 5 speed automatic.

    Hyundai uses a 4 speed automatic for it's Elantra and was loudly criticized for not being competitive.
    Subaru took a beating among the Subie fans for returning a 4 speed automatic and 5 speed manual in the new Impreza.

    I like the overall design and have no doubts it will sell quite well.

    However, I'm very surprised to discover that Toyota extended the development time for the new Corolla and then introduced it with no significant improvements in the powertrains.
    Toyota typically raises the bar with every redesign.
    Not this time.

    There is no free pass for Toyota.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    Body side moldings are not useful. How many cars do you see with dings even though they have the moldings? All car doors do not all perfectly line up with the moldings on other cars.

    If you have a car that you want to protect from dings, you need to not park in tight spaces. No body side moldings needed.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    If you have a car that you want to protect from dings, you need to not park in tight spaces.

    What a totally unrealistic statement. It's clear you never have to park in a parking ramp with narrow spaces, in limited supply. Lucky for you.

    Can you prove body side moldings are not useful? That is, they never protect a car against damage?

    I saw a current-gen Camry today with the optional side moldings. They looked fine. There is no stylistic reason why Toyota can't put side moldings on its cars such as the 2009 Corolla. It's all about cost, and maybe a little about weight.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    VW Rabbit uses 6 speed automatic.
    Honda Civic uses 5 speed automatic.
    Nissan Sentra uses a CVT.
    Mazda3 uses 5 speed automatic.

    Hyundai uses a 4 speed automatic for it's Elantra and was loudly criticized for not being competitive.
    Subaru took a beating among the Subie fans for returning a 4 speed automatic and 5 speed manual in the new Impreza.


    This is a good subject for enthusiasts to banter back and forth about...but really now how many gears does a 1.8L engine need? For Middle America is there any HUGE benefit? I thnk not. Enthusiasts? OK but then they have Mazda, VW, Si, etc etc. For the bulk of the buying population it's overkill to put any of those in a 1.8L engine. It's a matter of diminishing returns.

    However, I'm very surprised to discover that Toyota extended the development time for the new Corolla and then introduced it with no significant improvements in the powertrains.
    Toyota typically raises the bar with every redesign.


    Actually there are two very significant differences. This dual VVT-i 1.8L is much, much nicer in front of you. The 2.4L is obvious but that is likely to change in 2-3 yrs. This redesign IMO is all about the interiors and the interest to go after another demographic.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    kdhspyder This is a good subject for enthusiasts to banter back and forth about...but really now how many gears does a 1.8L engine need? end

    A 1.8L engine performs better with a 5 speed automatic than a 4 speed automatic IMHO.
    Honda Civic DX (the base version of Civic) provides a choice of 5 speed automatic or 5 speed manual.

    If you choose to use need as a basis to defend the 4 speed automatic in the 2009 Corolla then I'd like an explanation as to why Toyota is not using a 3 speed automatic since the 2000 Corolla offered a 1.8L with a 3 speed automatic. If it was OK then, why not know?

    3 speed and 4 speed automatic's were fine in 2000, for the 2009 Corolla I expected a 5 speed automatic.

    quote Honda -5-speed automatic transmission offers more gear ratios for quick acceleration and enhanced fuel economy. You get more power, smoother upshifts and downshifts and quieter operation.-end
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Do Hondas offer DOHC with Dual VVT-i?
    Mack
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    I'll have to disagree with a couple of your predictions.
    1. vsc/trac will be optional and not standard
    2. EJ option w/Bluetooth is only what? $650 on Camry? why would it be twice as much on Corolla.?
    3. I still don't see the smart key as an option on our version of the Corolla.
    4. Nav will probably be around $1800.00 or so. Same design as the Scion's and quite nice to use also.
    5. Z1 pack looks like the Camry price. I believe it's lower for Corolla.

    Unless you have some info on pricing that I don't then we are spitting in the wind right now my friend. ;)
    Mack
    5. Leather you're probably on the money.
    6. Destination seems a bit steep.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    I see cars every day with door dings above, below and past their moldings.
    You cannot rely on moldings at all. What works more reliably is not parking in tight spaces.
    If you cannot or will not do this, you will have to deal with door dings, moldings or not.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    You cannot rely on moldings at all. What works more reliably is not parking in tight spaces.

    The only possible way I could avoid not parking in tight spaces would be to never drive my car.

    I'd prefer to have bodyside moldings as standard equipement.

    I'm fully aware that the younger generation finds moldings to be out of fashion.

    Moldings provide more protection than no moldings.
  • mcmanusmcmanus Member Posts: 121
    2008 ratings for Corolla are down, dis-satisfaction is up. The industry moves on (quality, Hp, features, etc.) and Corolla stays dull and non-competative. Toyota quality reputation has been badly tarnished. What segment is Corolla supposed to be competing in anyway? Too expensive (MSRP versus features) to be a good economy alternative yet lacks performance features to stack up agains Civic or Mazda3.

    The redesign is already too little and too late. This apparent "freshening" of engine/body should have been introduced as a mid-term tweak years ago. And don't talk to me about sales figures. Henry Ford almost ran his company into the tank selling Model Ts way too long with that strategy. This is a car that only a Toyota fan (or someone that is only after mpg in a compact) might attract.

    A 2.4L Corolla took some Einsten way too long to come up with. Is that supposed to make it sporty? What Toyota recent retail heritage are we supposed to believe that would come from? Look at the TC or Solara and tell me this will make Corolla sporty (Not). IMO it fits closer to a granny racer description.

    Corolla has been neglected like an ugly step sister by a company that has been overly focused on sales figures and hybrids.

    I've been a Toyota fan (of the local dealership as much as the brand) and have owned three. A year ago I was interested in the new Corolla, but now I don't think I'd be satisfied with either the current one (if cheap enough) or the (mildly) new one. I was hoping for an economy version of the new BMW 1 series from Toyota.
  • mcmanusmcmanus Member Posts: 121
    Moldings are a classic example of marketing. It cost $5 to put them on a car, but they'll spend $50 per car to advertize them. If market research indicates that no one cares about them (and that the backlash is less than the advantages) they'll delete them.

    Then if you want them, the dealer can add them for $100. Its a win/win for the company.

    Narrow cars with tall seating (and therefore shorter doors) are the best defense against parking lot scrapes. Honestly cars shouldn't be designed to be so pretty in the first place. The engineer's solution would be to build them all simple with square sides and add a 2x4 bumper all around.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Yes it will be optional on some models like the base and possibly LE but they've already announced that it will be standard on the XRS and I'm certain on the top trim XLE.

    The EJ extra on the Camry is $1000, maybe $1100.

    There is no reason to believe that Canada will get SKS and not us.

    But that was the point of my post, to make a prediction 6 mos in advance of the launch. We'll see.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    HUH???

    Your first paragraph is off the chart in error. Dissatusfaction? The 2nd most popular vehicle in NA is being bought in ridiculous numbers in it's 6th year because the public is dissatisfied with it? The vehicle is higher in price than when it debuted, is virtually unchanged and dated after 6 yrs and yet people are snapping them up in volume second only to the Camry? Who's doing the buying if the public is dissatisfied. OK they might be dissatisfied because the vehicle is dated.

    Demographic goal? They ( Toyota ) have hit this one squarely on the the screws. The buying public in NA for the economy segment is looking for 'normal' styling, reliability, economy and a very affordable price. 4 doors, 4 wheels and an engine that will turn on for 10+ yrs without costing an extra dime would be a good description of the vehicle for this segment. The buying populatio falls under a normal distribution bell curve and Toyota has identified what means most to the largest segment of buyers under this curve.

    Yes Mazda and Honda and Nissan have specialty vehicles that perform much better than any Corolla. But the volume in these vehicles is far too small to build a strategy around. The money to be made from these vehicles is of very little interest to a huge manufacturer. Volume, Volume, Volume is all that really counts.

    That being said, elsewhere someone pointed out that if a person really really wanted to 'show off' in his Corolla then the 2.4L + TRD accessories are the perfect way to do it. The 2.4l is a lot better for low end torque than any of the rest which don't hit their strides until near the redline. Add the right TRD accessories and this can be a pocket rocket to compete with any of the rest.

    But because Toyota has TRD it allows the main thrust of the production and marketing to be directed toward the general population that's looking for 4 wheels, 4 doors and and engine that costs nothing extra for 10 yrs.

    You are right that the Corolla even though it is the prime vehicle for Toyota worldwide is just a good soldier here in NADM. It has always protected the Camry's flank. The Camry is the star. But there is a very good likelyhood that this new Gen10 might pass the Camry and take over the spotlight itself.

    Look at the comparo I offered above. The new '09 is almost the same vehicle ( shorter ) that the Gen3 Camry was - except more powerful, more efficient, with more safety features, with more interior features and all at a lower price than that Camry. It will probably eat into some 'traditional' Camry sales. However an XLE Corolla with 6 airbags + VSC/TRAC, leather, JBL+BT, sunroof+alloys, SKS + Auto climate will only be slightly more than a standard LE Camry with no options. Then a Navi option can be added where it can't be added to an LE Camry. That's a good choice for the buying public. It helps to support the pricing of the Camry as well.

    'Well Ma'am, if you don't really want a $26,500 ( MSRP ) XLE Camry with all those options how about a Corolla with the same options for $3000 less?'
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Then if you want them, the dealer can add them for $100.

    LOL, that's a good one! Try more like $200-250. For example, what's the price of the optional side moldings on the Camry? That will give you some idea what they'll cost on the Corolla.

    I doubt market research had anything to do with Toyota dropping side moldings from the Corolla--and the Camry, RAV4, etc. before it. It's all about bucks. Toyota, and other automakers, have dropped features like side moldings and folding side mirrors and padded interior trim because they figure some people won't notice. But some (like me) find those features useful (modlings and folding mirrors anyway) and do notice.

    Another cut from the 2009 Corolla--no one seemed to notice that the not-too-bad-looking plood was dropped from the LE for 2009, and now you need to get the XLE to get plood.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    plood :confuse:
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Plastic wood.
  • cubssoxscubssoxs Member Posts: 139
    The gen 3 camry is (92-96) i thought
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    And you are telling me this... why?
  • cubssoxscubssoxs Member Posts: 139
    i was not telling it to you i was telling it to khdspyder who was talking about it
  • nanotubenanotube Member Posts: 30
    Not even with Navigation model?? Toyota, you are kidding me right?
    image
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    No audio controls available? Are you sure?

    Even a Chevrolet Aveo offers steering wheel audio controls as an option.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Yes you're right since the first Gen was produced in Japan. I was thinking of the ones made here. Good catch.
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