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http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-sedan/specifications.aspx
That means, the only difference between the 1.8L is the weaker Corolla engine.
As for the XRS, yeah perhaps in the quarter mile, it might get a little jump, but after that, the Si with a 197hp engine is going to blow away the 158hp engine in the XRS. I think 158 is a joke for an upgraded engine. That's only 18hp more than a standard Civic and it's estimated to get far worse gas mileage.
Again, Toyota had the time to build a car that would have better specs than a car Honda released two years ago and it chose to just put very weak engines in them.
It is not competitive with similar sized engines from Honda and Nissan.
It wouldn't be bad to have less power if it had a fuel economy advantage, but it doesn't.
Yep you are right and since they had that time I guess you can conclude the they did that intentionally. Now the isssue is to figure out 'Why' they did that intentionally.
These things aren't done at random or by mistake...'Oops Hey did anyone update the engine?'
If you haven;'t driven the new 1.8L it's much much nicer than the outgoing 1.8L. The 2.4l will just be a big ol motor in a small vehicle. My guess is that they will sell three of them. The other 449.997 sales will be the 1.8L. Ok a slight exageration.
... Vehicle 'A" vs 09 Corolla
Curb wgt ~ 3150 vs ????
OAL ... 188.7 vs 178.7
OAH .... 55.4 vs 57.7
OAW .... 70.1 vs 69.3
Whl Base ... 105.2 vs 102.4
Engine .... 2.2L vs 1.8L
HP-SAE .... ~125 vs 128
FE (New) ... 21/31 vs 27/35
MSRP range $19000 to $26000 vs $17000 to $24000
Standard safety features:
ABS vs ABS
2 airbags vs 6 airbags
Maybe it's a case of once burned, twice shy. Or in the case of Toyota lately, thrice burned, four, five times burned? They are taking baby steps with new models for a while, after the Camry burps and the Tundra problems. They delayed the new HL a little bit, and it seems that new model has gotten off to a solid start, so hopefully they are on the right track with the baby steps thing.
But who would have thought in 1997 that 10 years later Toyota would have to be taking baby steps to deliver new products without glitches.
I bet they will sell a few more than just 3 of the 2.4L Corollas. As long as the least expensive 2.4L models stay under $20K sticker, which I expect they will manage to do.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Yes I assume that they probably will start the 2.4L Corolla's under $20K also. So that brings up this comparo..
Name the other vehicle.
... Vehicle 'A" vs 09 Corolla
Curb wgt ~ 3150 vs ????
OAL ... 188.7 vs 178.7
OAH .... 55.4 vs 57.7
OAW .... 70.1 vs 69.3
Whl Base ... 105.2 vs 102.4
Engine .... 2.2L vs 2.4L
HP-SAE .... ~125 vs 158
FE (New) ... 21/31 vs 22/30
MSRP range $19000 to $26000 vs $19000 to $24000
Standard safety features:
ABS vs ABS
..... vs VSC/TRAC
2 airbags vs 6 airbags
OTOH...
A good find from another site. Here is the 2009 Corolla presented on the Canadian website, these pics are not on the US website.
Note the 6th pic from the left 2009 Corolla
If you want a pocket rocket, I think you're looking at the wrong car!
I notice they don't show navi that's shown on all pictures of XLEs and XRSs on the US site.
On the US website there is a pic of the XLE interior but taken from just the right angle that the steering wheel hides the 'Power' button. I think that there will an XLE trim and then an upgrade package to the XLE that adds Auto Climate and SKS, then another option ( NV ) that adds Navi, then another ( EJ ) that adds the JBL + BT.
It would also be strange if they offered all that and not offer leather on the XLE. It looks like only the XRS has leather.
... Vehicle 'A" vs 09 Corolla
Uh let me guess! I believe Vehicle 'A' is either a Cadillac CTS or a Hummer H3.
The new design is FANTASTIC! The only nitpicking I have is that it took too long, need 5 speed automatic i/o 4 speed, and I prefer Sirius to XM.
Toyota has continued it's long history of improving an already good thing with the new Corolla design.
It will continue to be a sales hit.
The all-new 2009 Corolla, which Toyota Motor Corp. says will go on sale in the U.S. in late February, weighs about 140 pounds more than the 2008 model, adds 2 inches to its waistline and has six more horses under the hood, according to engineers. But it will show little to no improvement in fuel economy, and maybe even a small drop for some versions of the car.
end
2009 Corolla
Mack
Mackabee
Mackabee
Who knows if it will be any more available on a 2009 than it was on a 2007 or 2008?
I hate Toyota's lists options that are either never available or rarely available.
I don't see any other automaker doing this. With other automakers, either the option is commonly available in a popular package or you can easily special order it, wait and get it later. With Toyotas you can't order anything outside of your region's normal packages and have any realistic expectation of ever receiving it.
Are you sure leather is even an option on the 2009 Corolla XLE? They only picture leather on the XRS.
Mack
"Additional options on select grades include JBL Audio system with AM/FM six-disc CD changer with eight speakers and Bluetooth®, Navigation system with AM/FM CD with MP3/WMA playback capability and XM® satellite radio with XM NavTraffic® capable with six speakers, leather-trimmed seats and shift knob, tilt and slide moonroof, VSC with TRAC and cut-off switch.
Mackabee
2.4L Corolla XLE with...
Base: $19500 ( includes ABS, 6 airbags, VSC/TRAC, Alloys, Sunroof ) .. As opposed to a CE Camry for example
Options:
Leather ( LA ) .................... $1150
JBL+BT ( EJ )....................... $1400
Navi ( NV )........................... $1200
SKS + Auto Climate ( SK ).. $1000
Mats, etc ( Z1 )....................... $279
Plus Dest, Processing...........- $700
And to put this into perspective....
The answer to the questions above, Vehicle "A" was the Gen 3 Camry ( 97 -01 ).
The '09 Corolla is shorter than the Gen 3 by 10" overall but only 3" in WB, but it's almost the same size everywhere else. However the '09 Corolla...
..has more standard safety features,
..is more efficient than the 2.2L across the board,
..is far more powerful,
..is lighter,
..has more options such as JBL, BT, Navi,
..will cost less than an equivalent Gen3...7 yrars later
I had two of the Gen3's and thought that they were great vehicles for what they were intended to do. If you told me back then that I could have more, more, more and more for a lesser price????
How is this different than the 2008 Focus re-styling? Neither are fresh sheet of paper designs and very evolutionary. The older bones still show through.
The Corolla with the newly available 2.4 liter sounds fun.
Eh? Is that because younger people have more money to pay for repairing door dings? Or some other reason? :confuse:
Mackabee
What is my point?
Is bigger better?
Was the current Corolla too small?
Does Toyota have a commitment to fuel economy and the environment?
Mazda is making their new models lighter than previous at the same time increasing safety and fuel economy.
VW Rabbit uses 6 speed automatic.
Honda Civic uses 5 speed automatic.
Nissan Sentra uses a CVT.
Mazda3 uses 5 speed automatic.
Hyundai uses a 4 speed automatic for it's Elantra and was loudly criticized for not being competitive.
Subaru took a beating among the Subie fans for returning a 4 speed automatic and 5 speed manual in the new Impreza.
I like the overall design and have no doubts it will sell quite well.
However, I'm very surprised to discover that Toyota extended the development time for the new Corolla and then introduced it with no significant improvements in the powertrains.
Toyota typically raises the bar with every redesign.
Not this time.
There is no free pass for Toyota.
If you have a car that you want to protect from dings, you need to not park in tight spaces. No body side moldings needed.
What a totally unrealistic statement. It's clear you never have to park in a parking ramp with narrow spaces, in limited supply. Lucky for you.
Can you prove body side moldings are not useful? That is, they never protect a car against damage?
I saw a current-gen Camry today with the optional side moldings. They looked fine. There is no stylistic reason why Toyota can't put side moldings on its cars such as the 2009 Corolla. It's all about cost, and maybe a little about weight.
Honda Civic uses 5 speed automatic.
Nissan Sentra uses a CVT.
Mazda3 uses 5 speed automatic.
Hyundai uses a 4 speed automatic for it's Elantra and was loudly criticized for not being competitive.
Subaru took a beating among the Subie fans for returning a 4 speed automatic and 5 speed manual in the new Impreza.
This is a good subject for enthusiasts to banter back and forth about...but really now how many gears does a 1.8L engine need? For Middle America is there any HUGE benefit? I thnk not. Enthusiasts? OK but then they have Mazda, VW, Si, etc etc. For the bulk of the buying population it's overkill to put any of those in a 1.8L engine. It's a matter of diminishing returns.
However, I'm very surprised to discover that Toyota extended the development time for the new Corolla and then introduced it with no significant improvements in the powertrains.
Toyota typically raises the bar with every redesign.
Actually there are two very significant differences. This dual VVT-i 1.8L is much, much nicer in front of you. The 2.4L is obvious but that is likely to change in 2-3 yrs. This redesign IMO is all about the interiors and the interest to go after another demographic.
A 1.8L engine performs better with a 5 speed automatic than a 4 speed automatic IMHO.
Honda Civic DX (the base version of Civic) provides a choice of 5 speed automatic or 5 speed manual.
If you choose to use need as a basis to defend the 4 speed automatic in the 2009 Corolla then I'd like an explanation as to why Toyota is not using a 3 speed automatic since the 2000 Corolla offered a 1.8L with a 3 speed automatic. If it was OK then, why not know?
3 speed and 4 speed automatic's were fine in 2000, for the 2009 Corolla I expected a 5 speed automatic.
quote Honda -5-speed automatic transmission offers more gear ratios for quick acceleration and enhanced fuel economy. You get more power, smoother upshifts and downshifts and quieter operation.-end
Mack
1. vsc/trac will be optional and not standard
2. EJ option w/Bluetooth is only what? $650 on Camry? why would it be twice as much on Corolla.?
3. I still don't see the smart key as an option on our version of the Corolla.
4. Nav will probably be around $1800.00 or so. Same design as the Scion's and quite nice to use also.
5. Z1 pack looks like the Camry price. I believe it's lower for Corolla.
Unless you have some info on pricing that I don't then we are spitting in the wind right now my friend.
Mack
5. Leather you're probably on the money.
6. Destination seems a bit steep.
You cannot rely on moldings at all. What works more reliably is not parking in tight spaces.
If you cannot or will not do this, you will have to deal with door dings, moldings or not.
The only possible way I could avoid not parking in tight spaces would be to never drive my car.
I'd prefer to have bodyside moldings as standard equipement.
I'm fully aware that the younger generation finds moldings to be out of fashion.
Moldings provide more protection than no moldings.
The redesign is already too little and too late. This apparent "freshening" of engine/body should have been introduced as a mid-term tweak years ago. And don't talk to me about sales figures. Henry Ford almost ran his company into the tank selling Model Ts way too long with that strategy. This is a car that only a Toyota fan (or someone that is only after mpg in a compact) might attract.
A 2.4L Corolla took some Einsten way too long to come up with. Is that supposed to make it sporty? What Toyota recent retail heritage are we supposed to believe that would come from? Look at the TC or Solara and tell me this will make Corolla sporty (Not). IMO it fits closer to a granny racer description.
Corolla has been neglected like an ugly step sister by a company that has been overly focused on sales figures and hybrids.
I've been a Toyota fan (of the local dealership as much as the brand) and have owned three. A year ago I was interested in the new Corolla, but now I don't think I'd be satisfied with either the current one (if cheap enough) or the (mildly) new one. I was hoping for an economy version of the new BMW 1 series from Toyota.
Then if you want them, the dealer can add them for $100. Its a win/win for the company.
Narrow cars with tall seating (and therefore shorter doors) are the best defense against parking lot scrapes. Honestly cars shouldn't be designed to be so pretty in the first place. The engineer's solution would be to build them all simple with square sides and add a 2x4 bumper all around.
The EJ extra on the Camry is $1000, maybe $1100.
There is no reason to believe that Canada will get SKS and not us.
But that was the point of my post, to make a prediction 6 mos in advance of the launch. We'll see.
Your first paragraph is off the chart in error. Dissatusfaction? The 2nd most popular vehicle in NA is being bought in ridiculous numbers in it's 6th year because the public is dissatisfied with it? The vehicle is higher in price than when it debuted, is virtually unchanged and dated after 6 yrs and yet people are snapping them up in volume second only to the Camry? Who's doing the buying if the public is dissatisfied. OK they might be dissatisfied because the vehicle is dated.
Demographic goal? They ( Toyota ) have hit this one squarely on the the screws. The buying public in NA for the economy segment is looking for 'normal' styling, reliability, economy and a very affordable price. 4 doors, 4 wheels and an engine that will turn on for 10+ yrs without costing an extra dime would be a good description of the vehicle for this segment. The buying populatio falls under a normal distribution bell curve and Toyota has identified what means most to the largest segment of buyers under this curve.
Yes Mazda and Honda and Nissan have specialty vehicles that perform much better than any Corolla. But the volume in these vehicles is far too small to build a strategy around. The money to be made from these vehicles is of very little interest to a huge manufacturer. Volume, Volume, Volume is all that really counts.
That being said, elsewhere someone pointed out that if a person really really wanted to 'show off' in his Corolla then the 2.4L + TRD accessories are the perfect way to do it. The 2.4l is a lot better for low end torque than any of the rest which don't hit their strides until near the redline. Add the right TRD accessories and this can be a pocket rocket to compete with any of the rest.
But because Toyota has TRD it allows the main thrust of the production and marketing to be directed toward the general population that's looking for 4 wheels, 4 doors and and engine that costs nothing extra for 10 yrs.
You are right that the Corolla even though it is the prime vehicle for Toyota worldwide is just a good soldier here in NADM. It has always protected the Camry's flank. The Camry is the star. But there is a very good likelyhood that this new Gen10 might pass the Camry and take over the spotlight itself.
Look at the comparo I offered above. The new '09 is almost the same vehicle ( shorter ) that the Gen3 Camry was - except more powerful, more efficient, with more safety features, with more interior features and all at a lower price than that Camry. It will probably eat into some 'traditional' Camry sales. However an XLE Corolla with 6 airbags + VSC/TRAC, leather, JBL+BT, sunroof+alloys, SKS + Auto climate will only be slightly more than a standard LE Camry with no options. Then a Navi option can be added where it can't be added to an LE Camry. That's a good choice for the buying public. It helps to support the pricing of the Camry as well.
'Well Ma'am, if you don't really want a $26,500 ( MSRP ) XLE Camry with all those options how about a Corolla with the same options for $3000 less?'
LOL, that's a good one! Try more like $200-250. For example, what's the price of the optional side moldings on the Camry? That will give you some idea what they'll cost on the Corolla.
I doubt market research had anything to do with Toyota dropping side moldings from the Corolla--and the Camry, RAV4, etc. before it. It's all about bucks. Toyota, and other automakers, have dropped features like side moldings and folding side mirrors and padded interior trim because they figure some people won't notice. But some (like me) find those features useful (modlings and folding mirrors anyway) and do notice.
Another cut from the 2009 Corolla--no one seemed to notice that the not-too-bad-looking plood was dropped from the LE for 2009, and now you need to get the XLE to get plood.
Even a Chevrolet Aveo offers steering wheel audio controls as an option.