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2009 Toyota Corolla

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Comments

  • nanotubenanotube Member Posts: 30
    Okay, I stand corrected. Found on toyota.com:

    MP3 jack and available leather-wrapped steering wheel with audio controls (XLE, S and XRS only)

    I am still disappointed by the fact that

    1) Not available on LE or standard
    2) Optional, not standard on XLE and above
    3) Still can't apprehend the option of a Nav model with no steering wheel audio control? (see pic in my previous post)
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    I have to believe that Toyota will change the tweak the equipment levels to include standard steering wheel audio controls on all trims except the base.
  • basiliskstbasiliskst Member Posts: 55
    It may be all new suspension parts, but with a unit body construction I have a hard time believing it is all all new floor plan or pick-up points. This is very evidently an evolutionary Corolla. Retuned suspension is a better bet. I'd be shocked if it had independent suspension, but I suppose we'll find out soon enough.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    for the new Matrix lists an indy rear (Corolla already has an indy front) suspension for the XRS only. But I suspect that will go for the Corolla as well, since they are so closely related, and the XRS is meant to be more distinctly the sporty model now. I wonder if the 'S' will get the IRS as well...

    I think most side mouldings and certainly the nasty plood in the current Corolla LE is ugly and might pay a dealer a few bucks extra to rip it off/out. So if that makes me part of this "younger generation" that keeps getting referenced here, then I guess I'm younger than I thought.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Here's a direct quote from the Toyota press release (emphasis mine):

    But it offers an all-new body with a lean, stylish shape, and it delivers increased interior and luggage room, more power, more economical engines and an all-new chassis and suspension.

    But no mention in the lengthy press release as to whether it's an independent rear suspension. So that leads me to think that either Toyota was embarrassed to admit in the press release the the Corolla is finally getting an independent rear suspension for 2009, or it's not getting one.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    The all new chassis refers to the fact that it's 3" wider than the previous one so the new one had to be redesigned and retested from scratch for things like crash test worthiness and fuel economy.

    Radically different not really but it is all new.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    OK, but it's not just an all-new chassis, but an all-new suspension too. Why would Toyota go to all the trouble of designing an all-new suspension that is same-old, same-old?

    Or is this just marketing-speak?
  • giantkillergiantkiller Member Posts: 273
    The all new but but still old in comparison to the 2 year old Civic has "advanced" semi independent TORSION BEAM rear suspension. Now that what Toyota call all new.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    That's a wild assumption. Maybe they will make it standard on XLE and XRS or standard with nav or mandatory bundle with nav down the road.
    Steering wheel controls are needed with bluetooth, so maybe the bluetooth only comes with the JBL stereo and not the nav stereo.
    Don't expect it standard on the LE.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Not just Civic but just about every other car in its class has an independent rear suspension. I see the accountants still reign supreme at Toyota with the 2009 Corolla. ;)
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Does the Elantra have IRS? Because less compact cars than you might think have an independent rear these days. Sentra doesn't. I don't think Cobalt does. Not sure about Focus, and I would have to go and look all these up, but it's a rare thing. Cost-cutting in the industry continues apace...

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • colloquorcolloquor Member Posts: 482
    Yes.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    So...yes? LOL!

    Yes to what? :-P

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • colloquorcolloquor Member Posts: 482
    I was answering YOUR question from the previous post! Yes, the current generation Elantra has Independent Rear Suspension (IRS) as did the previous generation.

    One answers your question - and, you don't get it - amazing!
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Take it easy, colloquor, I was just having a bit of light-hearted fun, that's all.

    I had a feeling that's what you meant.

    Caliber and Sentra don't. Civic does. The good thing you can say about a torsion beam rear is that it is durable (for less costs to the consumer down the line) and cheaper to put in in the first place, keeping the sticker price down.

    Obviously, performance-based merits are all on the side of the indy rear.

    Toyota shies heavily away from giving their cars even a hint of sportiness, hence the choice to continue the torsion beam.

    IMO, the thing Toyota should strive to avoid is having their compact car labelled a "cheap little appliance", an abyss they continue to skirt without quite falling into it...

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • goldsuvgoldsuv Member Posts: 51
    The Caliber has IRS. You must be thinking of the 80's K-car.
    They had a torsion beam rear suspension. Also the Focus and VW Rabbit have IRS.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    No, I guess I was thinking of the Neon maybe? Did that have IRS? But I digress.

    I confirmed that Sentra and Cobalt have a torsion beam in the rear. Not exactly rarefied company for Corolla to be in for the next gen, to be sure.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Is this the XLE's interior that we aren't getting?
    image :shades:
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    image :shades:
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Looks like the US version will have the cheap rotary controls now found in the Yaris and Scion xB/xD bad moove.
    :shades:
    "
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    If they really are ala Yaris, that would be a bad move. I am hoping they are of a higher quality, i.e. smoothly damped, as are the rotary controls on some other cars. I actually like the rotary setup, it's very intuitive, but not if I can hear plastic crunching as I turn them.
  • sr1945sr1945 Member Posts: 38
    Prior to SEMA and after looking at the photos of the possible new 09 corolla shown slightly above else where, I put down a deposit at Toyota. Really liked the looks and the new NAV system.

    SEMA came, saw the new US version of the Corolla, and immediately got my deposit refund back and bought a 08 Accord with NAV.

    Me thinks.... That Toyota does not like the US very much or are just plain stupid by giving us a dumb down corolla over some other nations. I would have jumped on the new car, but thank you toyota for waking me up to reliality that you don't care about us that much to give us something that would have been good, and replace it with another version many do not like
  • jet10000jet10000 Member Posts: 656
    The press room mentions leather as an available option on certain grades. I would take that to mean the XLE and XRS.

    "Additional options on select grades include JBL Audio system with AM/FM six-disc CD changer with eight speakers and Bluetooth®, Navigation system with AM/FM CD with MP3/WMA playback capability and XM® satellite radio with XM NavTraffic® capable with six speakers, leather-trimmed seats and shift knob, tilt and slide moonroof, VSC with TRAC and cut-off switch.

    Well clearly the above paragraph doesn't spell out if the leather is on more than one grade which is what you're trying to claim.

    Furthermore, if you go to:

    http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/future/corolla/index.html?s_van=GM_HOME_COROLLA_F- UTURE_IMG

    Click Explore and Learn and then click the Reveal Video, the pictures of the leather interior are grayed out for all trims except for the XRS. If other trims had leather as a option they would be highlighted as well.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    Yes. All the XLE photos show cloth seats and they always show leather in their pictures when leather is available.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Corolla should begin to mimic Camry in its options packages. Leather can be had on the 4-cyl Camry XLE, so it should be available on Corolla XLE too. But that is something they could change easily enough during the model run.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Yes like the 4c XLE Camry the standard model has cloth. Leather, Navi are upgrades to the standard XLE.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    I'm trying to claim anything. This is what I know from inside sources. I do work for a Toyota dealer and have contacts at the distributorship and some of the factories you know.
    Mackabee
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    "Me thinks.... That Toyota does not like the US very much or are just plain stupid by giving us a dumb down corolla over some other nations. I would have jumped on the new car, but thank you toyota for waking me up to reliality that you don't care about us that much to give us something that would have been good, and replace it with another version many do not like"

    Me agrees with you. Nav has been available in European market Corollas since 2003. You can see a picture of one in one of my Carspace albums from the Frankfurt auto show 2003. And I do think they think we are dumb. Look what they did with Lexus. They glorified Toyotas and charged premium prices for them and we bought them hook, line, and sinker. I still can't believe some Lexus owners don't know they are driving Toyotas. :confuse:

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  • jacksan1jacksan1 Member Posts: 504
    You've got to be careful when you compare Europe or Japan with North America when speaking about what those markets get and we do not. Remember that for various reasons, including taxes and space, with many people in those other markets the Corolla is just about the biggest vehicle that they can own. Because they cannot move up in vehicle size, they want to move up in accoutrement and are willing to pay for luxury and other special equipment. I am not sure that North Americans, especially those in the U.S., are willing to spend the premium for a small car when they can get larger cars with comparable equipment for not much more. I am not saying which approach is right. But I can also see a marketing rationale.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Til the present I'd have to say that it's not that Toyota doesn't 'like' the NADM it's that they recognize that it's we who determine what goes into the vehicle.

    Why wouldn't they put upscale options in a compact vehicle if we bought them and they could make a profit from it? It's just a business decision that we the consumers, til now, have forced on all the vehicle makers. Go to the Ford and GM sites and you'll hear the very same complaints about the Euro Focus and the Euro GM Astra vs the NADM Focus and Cobalt.

    When the vehcle makers ask us the buyers what we want in our economy cars the mmost important consideration is PRICE!!! You yourself said the same when I broached the possibility of a $23-$24K Corolla. $24000 Corolla?????????? Who's going to buy it when they can get a Camry for less?

    Europeans buy these all the time at that price. In Japan the Corolla is the primary vehicle since forever.

    Here it's basic transportation...'Take all the 'junk' out of it and just give me 4 doors, 4 wheels and rollup windows.'

    We'll see soon if a $24000 Corolla will fly here. BTW the timing couldn't be better for the debut of a new 'economy' vehicle as gas goes toward $4 and $5 by next summer.
  • sr1945sr1945 Member Posts: 38
    Bought a 06 EX Honda Civic sedan with Nav prior to the new 08 Accord and paid about $22,000 for it if I recall and it was a really nice ride, and interior package.

    The 09 Corolla could have been the same, with a nice interior, and nicer Nav but they decided against it. I would have purchased one and almost did with the deposit until I was disappointed with the SEMA showing over what I thought would be the interior that was shown before. What is so hard to have the same interior layout as the Europe model. Not that much of a change. Should not cost all that different by the looks of it.

    At least Toyota could have offered the upgraded interior such as those in Europe, but not so. I had a 03 Corolla and was looking forward to the long waited 09, but boy did they ever mess up and all that time for this ? Something is wrong some where at Toyota.

    I took my business elsewhere.
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Member Posts: 504
    On a strictly marketing perspective, there is really no incentive for Toyota to take a risk by creating a possible inventory surplus of expensive Corollas when the plain vanilla version has had no difficulties moving off the lot. If they want to pad their profits, it is far less risky to do it with the Camry or Highlander or whatever. I am personally partial to small cars with luxury. At the same time, though, I would also hesitate to complain to McDonald's when they do not offer a great sit-down meal. I may go to a different restaurant someplace else, but the last I checked, McDonald's was not having any problems unloading all those burgers.

    In the same way, you and I may go to a different make because of our tastes, but the fact remains that Toyota's Plain Vanilla keeps selling and selling.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    Who says they have to fill lots with loaded models? Just build 2 percent that way to start and they can increase later if needed. Common sense.
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Member Posts: 504
    Who says they have to fill lots with loaded models?

    I certainly did not. I wonder who did.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Since the '09s aren't out yet and we haven't seen the upgraded interiors I don't see how you could have made a judgement yet. In Feb we'll see. I assume like all inititial launches the first vehicles to hit the stores will be the loaded up XLEs and XRSs.
  • jet10000jet10000 Member Posts: 656
    there is really no incentive for Toyota to take a risk by creating a possible inventory surplus of expensive Corollas when the plain vanilla version has had no difficulties moving off the lot.

    There was really no incentive for American car companies to upgrade their passenger cars four years ago either when they were moving tons of large SUV's and light trucks off the lots with big profit margins.

    However, when the gas crunch hit, those large vehicles sat on lots causing billions of dollars in losses.

    With oil closing in on $100 per barrel there is a huge risk to companies like Toyota that want to continue to offer North Americans stripped down compact cars and not upgrade them with more features comparable with autos sold in Europe and Japan.

    Honda offers a 4 cylinder Civic with heated leather seats beginning this year. Other than Mackabee's supposed "inside" sources, there's been no official info from Toyota that the Corolla will be available with the same feature for the 4 cyl.

    Business is about forward thinking, not doing the same thing just because it's always been done that way.
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Member Posts: 504
    With oil closing in on $100 per barrel there is a huge risk to companies like Toyota that want to continue to offer North Americans stripped down compact cars and not upgrade them with more features comparable with autos sold in Europe and Japan.

    This theory cuts both ways. If the gas price skyrockets, people can just as well want stripped down cars that are affordable when everything else is getting expensive due to the fuel surcharge. You may be right, though.

    By the way, what is Honda forecasting for the unit output of the leather-trimmed Civic for 2008?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Honda offers a 4 cylinder Civic with heated leather seats beginning this year. Other than Mackabee's supposed "inside" sources, there's been no official info from Toyota that the Corolla will be available with the same feature for the 4 cyl.

    Of course there was. The announcement at the SEMA release was clear, leather, Navi, JBL + Bluetooth are all going to be options. In the Canadian release they also 'imply' by their pics that SKS and Auto Climate are also options. They're being cute about it by not saying anything and keeping the chatter flowing until release.

    What's worse than someone saying something bad about your product? Nobody talking about it at all.
  • giantkillergiantkiller Member Posts: 273
    The question is not about the availability of junk or not. The question is if this supposedly all new Corolla is really new. Aside from rear disk brake and VVTI at the exhaust, this is essentially the same car that it will replace. For 18K and change, I could get a Civic with better powertrain, suspension, and safety features. My point is, Toyota has to better or at least equal the competition. Consumer nowadays are different as compared to consumers a decade ago. With the availability of information, I dont know how this inferior car can win the business of the smart consumer.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    They are options on the XRS, but it doesn't look like there will be factory installed leather on the XLE in the US right away if ever. I have never seen any automaker that had leather on a certain model that didn't picture the leather interior by default in their marketing photos.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Price, reputation, price, reputation..then there's price and reputation.

    You look at this from the eyesight of a driving enthusiast, which is fine. Now if there are 500 others who have no interest at all in powertrain, suspension and handling and all they want is Dependability, Reliability and Price... nothing more. 4 doors and 4 wheels.is all they want to get from A to B then yes Toyota may lose the 12 enthusiasts but gain 12,000 others because the vehicle is priced right. In the end nothing matter except which vehicle makes more money. The rest is fanboi hoohaa and beauty contests. Just count the money at the end of the year and that's the winner.

    Toyota doesn't need to better any competition, it only hs to appeal to the most buyers. If they want to appeal to the more basic buyer that's fine, it's a HUGE market and there's enough for all the others. Let Mazda, Nissan and Honda fight for the enthusiasts Toyota has its hands full with Hyundai.

    BTW both the Civic and Corolla have similar safety features.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    I guess we'll have to wait and see. From the Canadian site it appears that all the options are available. I can't see them offering it in the North but not in the South. For what reason would they do this?
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Member Posts: 504
    Price, reputation, price, reputation..then there's price and reputation.

    You look at this from the eyesight of a driving enthusiast, which is fine. Now if there are 500 others who have no interest at all in powertrain, suspension and handling and all they want is Dependability, Reliability and Price... nothing more. 4 doors and 4 wheels.is all they want to get from A to B then yes Toyota may lose the 12 enthusiasts but gain 12,000 others because the vehicle is priced right. In the end nothing matter except which vehicle makes more money. The rest is fanboi hoohaa and beauty contests. Just count the money at the end of the year and that's the winner.

    Toyota doesn't need to better any competition, it only hs to appeal to the most buyers. If they want to appeal to the more basic buyer that's fine, it's a HUGE market and there's enough for all the others. Let Mazda, Nissan and Honda fight for the enthusiasts Toyota has its hands full with Hyundai.

    BTW both the Civic and Corolla have similar safety features.

    I could not agree more, kdhspyder. One could even say that the Corolla's 41 years' successful run is precisely because Toyota ignores so-called auto enthusiasts.

    In fact, in the Japanese automotive world where I used to be in, there is a saying that no car that critics rave about ever sells. An overwhelming majority of the COTY Japan Car of the Year winners have historically been a major commercial flop. If I could short-sell a COTY JCY winner like a stock, I would be making oodles of money every year.
  • giantkillergiantkiller Member Posts: 273
    A Civic LX is hardly a performance car. Nobody buys a Civic LX because theyre car enthusiast.
    You're probably right with the COTY but only with respect to Toyotas who won it. As far as I know COTY award winners from Honda such as the Civic and Fit were hugely succesful.
  • giantkillergiantkiller Member Posts: 273
    A Civic LX is hardly a performance car or a driving enthusiast car. In some ways this present Corolla was better than the old Civic when it was first introduced. The Civic at that time was the best selling comapct and Toyota was compelled to produce a Corolla that would better it in every aspect and honestly, they have. Fast forward today and you see a Corolla that is way behind in terms of improement. About the doodads and junks maybe but not the essentials like drivetrain and suspension.
    BTW Civic has Active head restraint, Corolla has none.
  • dgecho1dgecho1 Member Posts: 49
    I tested the 08 corolla the other day...not been in 1 for several years....ok but not competitive with the civic lx......at all....civic leases and sales are very competitive whereas here in FL you have the toyoguard and $700dealer fees...that is $1400 right off the top that is too much..much less all the other add-ons...I looked carefully at the 09 specs...bought an 08 civic and never looked back. Toyota is NOT at the edge the way it was back in 90's and early 2000's...disappointing since I think a lot of their products have been tops instead of just so-so like now....
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    OK, to understand your post...you compared a 6 y.o. model with a new model and found the new model to be better. That sounds like a very logical conclusion to draw, goood job. However to counter your argument about the pricing, here in the Central Atlantic region there are no such charges and the Corolla is far, far, far lower than a Civic, as in not even a contest. Consider this: the Civic was brand spanking new with all the latest features last year when it debuted....and all this year the 'outdated' Corolla has outsold it and made more and more money.

    We'll revisit the pricing when the new 09s arrive.

    Count on this. The Corolla will outsell the Civic and make much much more money for the parent company. And in the end that's the only criteria that counts.

    Everything else is just beauty pageantry hoopla.
  • raychuang00raychuang00 Member Posts: 541
    I think Toyota was way too conservative in the new drivetrain for the 2009 Corolla. A 132 bhp engine with a 4AT transmission won't cut it against the 140 bhp engine with 5AT transmission found on all Honda Civic models.

    Besides, Honda is now one model year away from doing their mid-model change (MMC) on the current Civic. Honda could easily offer a new 1.8-liter I-4 engine with the new Advanced VTEC valvetrain and a six-speed automatic, and that will make it even MORE desirable than the new Corolla. I hope Toyota comes to its senses and offers a Corolla sedan with the new 150 bhp Valvematic engine and a 5AT transmission to better compete against the upgraded Civic.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    I doubt there will be any major powertrain changes on the 2009 Civic especially when the new Corolla isn't even matching what the Honda Civic has now. If they add stability control, bluetooth and a few other minor improvements to the 2009 Civic, they will be set until the full redesign in a few years..
  • jet10000jet10000 Member Posts: 656
    Toyota may lose the 12 enthusiasts but gain 12,000 others because the vehicle is priced right. In the end nothing matter except which vehicle makes more money. The rest is fanboi hoohaa and beauty contests. Just count the money at the end of the year and that's the winner.

    Perhaps an automotive executive cares who sells the most at the end of the day, but as a buyer it means zilch to me. As a buyer, I want the most features and the highest quality in relation to the dollars I'm willing to pay.

    American manufacturers thought nothing mattered except which vehicle makes more money for many years too. So they did the same thing you're advising to keep counting the money and declaring a winner. They followed your advice and now they're in the hole.

    Car buyers don't change their buying habits as quickly as buyers of clothes or music. But as proven by the decline market share of the "Big 3", change they eventually will.

    So sure Toyota can throw any old Corolla out on the lot and it will sell in the short term. But if they don't continue to offer a cutting edge product in terms of features and value, the money they may have counted in 2006 won't count for much in 2016.
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