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2009 Toyota Corolla

1373840424362

Comments

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Corolla is sold in Canada, right? So where is the "hot weather package" with A/C, and maybe tinted glass, for places like the Carribbean, Central America, and of course the warm parts of the U.S.? That way, only the folks who really need features like A/C would need to pay for them. Just like Toyota is giving those folks in the Caribbean and Central America a price break with the "cold weather package" option.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    The current Corolla only has lock/unlock and panic mode. The new one will be an all inclusive key as in the Camry but I didn't see anywhere where it would have a trunk release.
    Mack
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I guess we will have to wait and see WRT the integrated key. I think it's odd that Toyota wouldn't just have one standard integrated key type. The Yaris sedan RKE uses an integrated key, as well, but I do not know if it has a trunk release. If it does, and the Corolla does not, thats bizarre/silly.

    I am definitely interested to see the production pricing and spec sheet regarding standard features and options for all trims. I thought it was curious that Edmunds.com's review showed a price of an estimate $21,975 for the loaded (Sport Pkg, NAV, leather, etc) Corolla S 5M. I wonder what that estimate was based on?

    R: the All Weather Guard Pkg - it has been an option on the Corolla since I can remember. It seems just a way of keeping another approx $70 off the MSRP of the car. Its such a cheap option I don't see the point of not making it standard. Do people really notice the $70?
  • flpcguyflpcguy Member Posts: 24
    Good idea, but I believe the warm weather pkg. is too close to the std. package. Tint dots and reflective properties are included in the standard windows. A good tint shop can take care of the rest with high quality reflective material that will last up to 10 years. I live in FL and have never needed to turn my 2006 CE A/C above low in the past 2 years, though I don't often park in full sunlight for long. The hottest weather I've seen was a July drive on I-75 to Tampa where the road temp reached 106 but my engine temp remained in the middle and the A/C did an adequate job on medium settings (with my dark custom tinted windows). I'm pleased with the standard features on my 06 and wouldn't want to add anything that raises the price. The only worthwhile option is the upgrade pkg with pwr doors and windows for about $500.

    BTW, reports on the so-called 2009 indicate the sedan will share the same power plant and rear end as the Matrix, abandoning the 1FE engine and higher gear ratio trans. of the 2003-06 (especially manual trans).Corolla sedans. This is a giant step backwards for consumers but will reduce production costs significantly and allow Toyota to hold the line on pricing. This is a US specific change. Detuning was required to reduce MPG loss resulting in poorer performance except off the line. Now the drivetrain is just like all the clones and will loosen your fillings and stress you out on a long trip at high speed (3500-4000 RPMs). I can do 70-75 at a quiet 3000 RPMs on I-95. My advice, get a new '08 CE 5-speed sedan while you still can, especially with the $1500 factory to dealer incentive (see Edmunds).
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    The Yaris key does not have a trunk release. All weather guard package doesn't get noticed if at all. Should be standard. I guess the estimated price is based on the previous XRS Corolla that was available in 07. That pup with moonroof and side airbags, alloys, etc, stickered around $20.5k if I recall. So a loaded with leather and nav sport pkg at $1500.00 MSRP is not far fetched. We'll see pricing soon.
    Makc :shades:
  • mcmanusmcmanus Member Posts: 121
    We've waited how many years for this?

    - 200 lbs of safety features
    - worse steering
    - new (unknown to the U.S.) engine with mild performance upgrade
    - better fitting for driver, but wider car
    - higher street prices
    - looks like it was designed more to fit into the Toyota lineup than to compete

    Three year old Civic looks better and better.

    BTW,

    - I've hated the cheap feal of the current HVAC controls
    - I'm 5'-7" and reach to the current steering wheel is excessive
    - I like the current tall/narrow profile for city driving, egress, long range comfort
    - I hate metal dash accents (glare in sunlight, dangerous in crashes)
    - Auto climate control is just something else to go wrong (and pay for)
    - The 2.4L option turns it into a ponycar wantabe (silly!)
  • lostwrenchlostwrench Member Posts: 288
    I welcome the wider stance and lower height of the new Corolla. It is better for driving in the very windy mountains. :)
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Engine is the same as in the Scion xD so it's not new to the US.
    Electric power steering is not worse, just different. It takes a few days to get used to it then you forget you got it.
    Still outsell your Civic. ;)
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    We've waited how many years for this? ...ONE

    - 200 lbs of safety features .. these will be mandatory in every vehicle on the road in 3 yrs.

    - worse steering .. personal perceptions, we will all have to judge for ourselves

    - new (unknown to the U.S.) engine with mild performance upgrade .. Incorrect. This is the same 1.8L that currently is in the xD. If you haven't driven one then it's an entirely different experience. The current Corolla is loud and harsh. The xD is a lot smoother/quieter.

    - better fitting for driver, but wider car ... better stability

    - higher street prices ... see below

    - looks like it was designed more to fit into the Toyota lineup than to compete ... as has been said many times here before it competes in a different segment of the economy car market. It in fact owns the generic-economy-appliance-commuter subsegment.

    Three year old Civic looks better and better. .. personal preference. I think the Civic is a knockoff of my Prius.. ;)


    What we have here in this new vehicle is the quintessential low-priced, low-cost generic commuter vehicle for the high-volume mass market. It can be mildly upgraded in performance and it can add some upscale features not normally seen in vehicles of this class. It has no other aspirations other than to meet this demand and make tons and tons of money in the process. If it does so it will be a smash hit. It's timing couldn't be better either. $4 gas in the Spring? $4 - $5 next year? $6 - $7 in 5 yrs?

    Taking a step back and looking at the specs in a different frame of reference. Consider the Camry. For the better part of the past 15 yrs the Camry has owned the No 1 ranking among autos. The Gen4 Camry ( 97-01 ) was the No 1 vehicle every year it was out. This new Gen10 Corolla is a Gen4 Camry - just shorter.

    It's the same width
    It's the same height
    It's more powerful ( both new engines vs the 2.2L in the old Camry )
    it's more fuel efficient ( both engines )
    it has more safety features than that Camry ever had
    it has more upscale features than that Camry ever had
    and most importantly....
    it costs less than that Camry did - even after 5-10 years of inflation

    So the buyers coming to the Toyota lots now have essentially two Camry's to choose from both versions have been the most popular vehicle in the US for multiple years.

    Here's the hook. A buyer coming in to trade his/her 99 or 2000 Camry looks at the new Camry and say's
    'It's soo big and the price is waaay more than I spent in '99. I don't need all that room or all that power.'
    Reply...
    'Would you like to buy your same 99 Camry with more features and better fuel economy ( fuel today is $3.75 per gal afterall ) but at a lower price than you spent in '99?'

    DING!!!!!
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I agree with almost all of your points except when you say that the 2008 Camry is much more expensive than the 2000. Actually, the current Camry is more price competitive than its ever been. In 2000, you had to add RKE, ABS, Pwr Drivers seat, etc, whereas this is standard on the current LE. At the time, the 2000 Camry cost about $21K with those options. Equipped the same, the 2008 costs about $22K, far less than 8 year's inflation.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Agreed.

    I'm thinking more of the sticker shock perception of the buyers now that a lot of Camrys have far more available features than the Gen4's did. The LE was by far the most common purchase and just about all you could add were the features you noted and a Moonroof, sometimes aftermarket leather. $22,000 less discounts was a common transaction number

    Now with the wider variety of trims and all the various options the stickers often run $25000 or even $29000. Yes an LE is still just around $22000, with more features, but IMO there are relatively few LEs for sale and more trims with higher prices giving the perception of 'WOW'.

    Toyota has done a heck of a job making it's two key vehicles larger, more powerful, safer, more efficient and all at the same cost or less than 10 yrs ago.
  • toyoman3toyoman3 Member Posts: 11
    I don't believe this is an all new from the ground redesign like most people expected, it is basically the same car with some important upgrades, but looking at corolla history the car is only all new every 10 years, you can tell by the fact that the wheelbase stays the same, the current trend is to increase wheelbase and either keeping the same total length or shortening it a bit, it is still an impressive package and way better than the 1998/2002 generation I own, ps. it is still my compact of choice.Let's just hope the quality doesn't suffer like it has with Camry , Avalon and Tundra
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Considering this car has been out for two years in other markets I don't think we have to worry about quality issues. Smart move by Toyota to bring this car here after two years of overseas "testing". I bet this becomes the most reliable Corolla ever.
    ;)
    Mack
  • echo2001echo2001 Member Posts: 17
    I hope it doesn't have any first year issues as I am planning to buy one.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    What disappoints me about the new Corolla is that it is admittedly Toyota's defining car, thus arguably the most important vehicle in their wide lineup. It's been six years since a redesign. Yet with all that and Toyota's resources and engineering prowess, what do we get? A car that:

    - has fewer standard safety features
    - has fewer standard comfort/convenience features
    - has questionable quality on the interior
    - has less interior room
    - has a less sophisticated suspension
    - has an all new engine that gets just 1 mpg (EPA overall rating) better than a relatively ancient, iron-block design while putting out less power and torque
    - and is more expensive

    than one of its major rivals that will be out for a year and a half when the 2009 Corolla debuts in the U.S. What "extra" does the new Corolla give us? An optional, more powerful (and thirstier) engine, availability of a 5-speed AT on the highest (most expensive) trim line only (already available on competitors like Civic and Mazda3, with 6AT on the Rabbit/Jetta); and availability of Bluetooth (already available on competitors like the Versa and Sentra) and factory nav (already available on competitors like Civic and Mazda3).

    At one time, not so long ago (like the '90s), the Corolla was one of the top cars in its segment, because it was actually one of the best cars in its segment. I feel the 2009 Corolla will continue the more recent trend where the Corolla continues to sell in big numbers in the U.S. because of reputation, general competence, and buyers who don't know any better. Make a decent car (even if someone other than Toyota makes it, e.g. Daihatsu), put a Toyota label on it, and it will sell.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    I disagree on a couple of points. The 09 will have more standard safety features than any other generation Corolla. To wit: abs, side impact, side curtain airbags.

    " Make a decent car (even if someone other than Toyota makes it, e.g. Daihatsu), put a Toyota label on it, and it will sell."
    They already did. The original Scion xB or Toyota Bb is made by Daihatsu and so is the evolution of the Bb which we didn't get. It's also known as the Daihatsu Materia in other markets.

    We keep image Corolla was never meant to be an enthusiast car.
    :shades:
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Actually, you didn't disagree with me on ANY of my points. I didn't make a point that the new Corolla has fewer safety features than any previous Corolla. But the new features it adds aren't anything special in its segment for 2009, and some of its competitors better it in that area. So, ho-hum on the safety features, and shame on Toyota for makings key safety features like ABS and side curtains so hard to get on the Corolla until now.

    As for the 2nd point, you simply amplified the point I made, rather than disagreeing with it.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    I just found out Bluetooth comes with the JBL stereo and don't get the JBL stereo when you choose nav. So, you have to decides\d whether you want JBL and bluetooth handsfree OR navigation.
    With no voice control to operate the nav while driving, a portable GPS makes more sense than bothering with the factory nav system and then giving up bluetooth and the upgraded stereo.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I'm still confused. The 2009 Corolla has fewer standard safety features than which vehicle? And at what point is increased interior volume in this segment of decreasing incremental benefit? Regarding the interior, well, C/D said the climate knobs were disappointing. Edmunds.com remarks the opposite, and their comments weren't relegated to just the climate knobs.

    I just don't necessarily think a vehicle has to be best in every aspect of execution to be a strong all-rounder which is the characteristic that has typically defined "Corolla".
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Examples: Corolla lacks standard 4-wheel disc brakes in almost all trims. It also has VSC standard only on its top-line XRS trim, which will account for a very small percentage of sales. Some competitors offer 4-wheel discs on all trims and offer VSC standard on a larger percentage of their cars.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Wow, you're impressively fast. Regarding discs vs. drums.... sure, discs are more desirable from a performance perspective, especially under repeated heavy use. But if the Corolla can stop quickly and confidently, which it seems to do based on edmunds.com's numbers, maybe its a fair cost-benefit tradeoff. And, given that it stops short, I'll take the active head restraints offered on every Corolla, which some competitors don't offer on any trim line.

    Regarding "best", sometimes the most sophisticated componetry or specifications doesn't necessarily add up to being the "best". MT remarked that Toyota, despite the Corollas weight gain, has managed to keep it as light as the 'svelte' Civic, and that the body is impressively rigid. These are things that don't necessarily come through on a features sheet. We've not seen comparos or driven the cars, so I am interested to see how it actually compares on ride, noise, handling, real world FE, crash test scores, reliability, etc. And, pricing is yet to be announced.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    You mean discs, right?

    Active head restraints are valuable, but not a new thing, e.g. see Civic and Elantra among others. Corolla is late to the party there, along with most everything else they are offering in the "new" Corolla. Except maybe for the hideous ground effects on the sporty models. Those are pretty unique--fortunately. ;)
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Thanks for the correction - love that edit button! :blush:

    But, again, to my point about the actual component not necessarily being indicative of execution - the Elantra indeed has an active head restraint. However, it does not achieve a the highest rating in rear impact from the IIHS. So despite not offering something new, in the execution of the same component, perhaps Toyota has seized the chance to gain a competitive advantage there. (I recognize the Civic does achieve the highest rating with its active restraints, as do the Cobalt and Impreza but not many other direct competitors).

    Sidenote -one thing I find annoying - where are the IIHS crash scores for Sentra, Elantra, etc? I hope Toyota fronts the Corolla to the IIHS for quick side and rear testing, as they did for the Highlander. Styling, as always, is subjective, and I find the "S" very unappealing because of its all flash/no-dash approach, but I guess the consumer has spoken and its a popular model. The body kit is way more acceptable on the XRS, for me.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I agree, it's annoying that the IIHS isn't faster at testing all the new models. Maybe they'll test the Corolla right away because it sells in such high volume, or if Toyota pays them to test it faster than the IIHS' regular test schedule.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    You can see them on youtube.
    I've said all I'm going to say about the 09 Corolla. I will never win an argument with backy and nippononly, but then again I expect that from Honda lovers. ;)
    Mack
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    You're wrong here backy.

    The Camry is and will always be the center of everything in NA as far as Toyota is concerned; The Camry is the defining car, The Corolla is the good soldier that supports the Camry by covering it's back side to support the pricing of the Camry.

    The Corolla is in fact the direct competitor to the Sonata simply because Hyundai doesnt want to price the Sonata directly against the Camry... that would be silly. So the Corolla does the dirty work of fighting off the Sonata buyers with a mini- Camry look and feel.

    The Elantra isn't in the picture; it's priced too low. It may be the 'natural competitor' to the Corolla but buyers often class themselves by price segments.
  • mcmanusmcmanus Member Posts: 121
    Scion xD is only months old, Tell me how the first 100,000 are running after they have 100,000 miles on them. I both a first year Camry in '97 and the tranny went at 132k miles. BTW the engine/transmission hadn't changed from the previous generation. I drive 25 - 30k miles per year, so end up on the bleeding edge of owner experience.

    I'm a consumer, not a salesman, so don't care which car sells the most.
  • mcmanusmcmanus Member Posts: 121
    Safety features mandatory in the near future, fine but I don't like paying for them. The greatest 200 pound safety feature is behind the steering wheel. The other features largely make up for poor drivers and slezzey lawyers. And they often get in the way of driver feel/control.

    Don't expect race car steering, but why take a step backwards. This is important here in the great white north where you need to know when the wheels are slipping in snow and ice.

    I haven't driven the new engine, just going from the reviewers comments. But its new to the U.S. and the old engine/tranny were well known, so it'd better be better.

    Tall/narrow design benefits city driving and egress for us older folks. Low and wide is what everyone else does, where's the choice in that?

    Less discounts, less/no factory offers to be expected with a new . Haven't seen the Gen 10 Corolla, but can't believe its the same interior size as my '97 Camry (which was a bit too big for my taste).

    Civic/Prius comparision?? Sure they're both metal transport boxes with 4 wheels with reasonable economy from Japanese based companies. Not sure what message you're trying to convey.

    Agreed, gas prices will continue to go up as demand keeps increasely exceeding production capacity. Thats why we're here and not at the Hummer forum.

    I'm not a salesman, so don't care about how various cars get pitched.
  • mcmanusmcmanus Member Posts: 121
    No one has picked up on what I thought was the most important comment I'd made:

    "looks like it was designed more to fit into the Toyota lineup (rather) than to compete".

    This points to the GM-like mentality I saw in the 80's as a consultant that, like so many other large organizations, they couldn't see outside their own walls. Middle managers competing with each other, upper management busy trying to manage the middle managers and internal politics. Everyone fiddling while Rome burns.

    Toyota hopes that their name sells Corolla. After years of waiting, the new Corolla (like the current one has aged into) is an entirely unremarkable product. Nothing so far indicates that it exceeds any competitor on any major point. How dull! The new Corolla even looks almost identical to the current .

    The relatively new Camry just finished in last place in two recent Edmunds comparison tests, behind Malibu in both cases! And Toyota does not want to compete on price/content value (would tarnish their already fading reputation as they'd get lumped with the hungry Koreans instead of the much more elite Japanese).
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Whatever.
    :shades:
  • windjammerwindjammer Member Posts: 25
    For a couple of people who hate Toyota as much as they do. They really do spend an awful lot of time on this forum don't they.

    I have a friend who bought a wrist watch that had more "standard options " then the rest. Like water resistant, stop watch capability, date and illumines dial all for this for only $19.95. Pretty much did everything except keep the correct time. Which by the way
    was why he purchased a watch in the first place.

    Corolla may not offer all the "standard options" on there vehicles as some of the others. But they do offer a track record of reliability and resale value. Which is the main reason I bought the car in the first place . Corolla offers all the amenities as the others. But only if I want them. Simple but sound concept
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    "Haven't seen the Gen 10 Corolla, but can't believe its the same interior size as my '97 Camry"

    I think this claim will turn out to be a "trick of the numbers", in that interior passenger volume will be similar, but with a higher roof helping to make that number. Therefore, knee and shoulder space will be more limited than in your '97, especially in the back seat, but the claim of "the same interior space as the '97 Camry" will technically be true.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kasper06kasper06 Member Posts: 30
    In the recent issue of Motortrend the Toyota Camry beat the new Accord and the new Malibu. Lets not be so one-sided here people. Lets present all the facts not just the ones that you want to present to make your unfair, biased case. Lets be fair and balanced if we can please. It's obvious there are a lot of Toyota haters on this thread and that's ok. Before passing judgment on the all new 10th gen Corolla, lets drive it first. Everyone here is judging this car before they have even seen it or driven it. It will be on sale for everyone to see very shortly.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    No one has picked up on what I thought was the most important comment I'd made:

    "looks like it was designed more to fit into the Toyota lineup (rather) than to compete".

    This points to the GM-like mentality I saw in the 80's as a consultant that, like so many other large organizations, they couldn't see outside their own walls. Middle managers competing with each other, upper management busy trying to manage the middle managers and internal politics. Everyone fiddling while Rome burns.

    Toyota hopes that their name sells Corolla. After years of waiting, the new Corolla (like the current one has aged into) is an entirely unremarkable product. Nothing so far indicates that it exceeds any competitor on any major point. How dull! The new Corolla even looks almost identical to the current .

    The relatively new Camry just finished in last place in two recent Edmunds comparison tests, behind Malibu in both cases! And Toyota does not want to compete on price/content value (would tarnish their already fading reputation as they'd get lumped with the hungry Koreans instead of the much more elite Japanese).


    In all of this you've missed about 2 month's worth of posts. Including the Camry ( btw the Camry finished first ahead of both the Accord and Malibu in Motor Trend's most recent comparo of the new models together ) Toyota has intentionally gone for the center of the generic, auto-as-appliance subsegment for it's two main vehicles.

    It isn't a mistake that both the Camry and Corolla often seem bland in comparison it's intentional for several reasons, volume, volume, volume. Everything in the auto industry revolves around volume because the intial 'costs of entry' are so high. It's no mistake because this recognition of what the typical driver wants also where the highest volume occurs in a nornal distribution curve; +/- one standard deviation from the mean encompasses 68% of a population being studied, supplied, counted. After that the curve slopes shapely down.

    From Wikipedia...Standard Deviation and confidence intervals
    [edit] Standard deviation and confidence intervals

    Dark blue is less than one standard deviation from the mean. For the normal distribution, this accounts for about 68% of the set (dark blue) while two standard deviations from the mean (medium and dark blue) account for about 95% and three standard deviations (light, medium, and dark blue) account for about 99.7%.About 68% of values drawn from a normal distribution are within one standard deviation σ > 0 away from the mean μ; about 95% of the values are within two standard deviations and about 99.7% lie within three standard deviations. This is known as the "68-95-99.7 rule" or the "empirical rule."

    To be more precise, the area under the bell curve between μ − nσ and μ + nσ in terms of the cumulative normal distribution function is given by


    What Toyota has done is hog the center of this segment by cutting costs to offer the least costly vehicle to the mjority of the buyers. In doing so it has turned a $17000 vehicle into a fabulous money maker. Your biased references ' as they'd get lumped with the hungry Koreans instead of the much more elite Japanese).' show a complete lack of understanding of what the Corolla has been til now and where it belongs. It is a basic low-cost rock-solid people-mover that makes money. Nothing else. It has alway been this with a few temporary offshoots. BTW Toyota is the elite Japanese ( worldwide ) maker simply because it makes the most money. This is only about business. Nothing else.

    This is where your entire reference to GM fails. In the end all the comparo's are only beauty pagaents. In the end there is only one single metric that matter. Which products, which company makes the most money at the end of the year? By cutting costs and offering a vehicle that appeals to the masses rather than to the enthusiasts Toyota has been able to grow this name to the No 1 nameplate in the entire history of the world. It sells because it meets the needs of the masses. Because it meets the needs of the largest part of the masses it sells more than the others. Because it sells more volume than the others it has lower total costs than the others meaning it can be sold at a lower price and it can make big profits at a low transaction price.

    Finally everybody has to eat. There is no way one company can sell an entire market. The others recognize that they [ a) can't b) choose not to ] compete in the generic people-mover subsegment ( where all the volume is ) so they make vehicles which appeal to different ( lower volume ) subsegments. But then their costs can't be as low as Toyota's because their volume is not great enough so they have to make their vehicle appeal in ways that are more costly.

    In the end everybody is happy with each in their rightful places. These are business people afterall and their only concern is the bottom line. If Toyota has staked out the center why fight them down in the trenches of $17000? Let Toyota make money at $17000 due primarily to volume. The others will make money in other areas.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    I think this claim will turn out to be a "trick of the numbers", in that interior passenger volume will be similar, but with a higher roof helping to make that number. Therefore, knee and shoulder space will be more limited than in your '97, especially in the back seat, but the claim of "the same interior space as the '97 Camry" will technically be true.

    Actually the width and the height of both vehicles, the 97 Camry and the 09 Corolla, are the same or very minorly different. It's the length that's different by about 11" iirc meaning a somewhat smaller trunk and shorter wheelbase. Legroom probably is less in the new Corolla. Thus the interior room will be smaller primarily front to back.
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Member Posts: 504
    kdhspyder, you have said it all for me. Brilliant. And thanks. :)
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    So, wait, regardless of the height of the Gen 4 Camry vs. Gen 10 Corolla, exactly where has Toyota or any of the mags said the interior is going to be the same size as the Gen 4 Camry? Sometimes, I feel like rumors or speculation get legs on these forums, and that's not a statement I remember reading....
  • colloquorcolloquor Member Posts: 482
    Correct - they still don't have the side crash results for the Scion xB as yet.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Maybe we could talk more about cars, specifically the 2009 Corolla, here vs. who hates Toyotas or loves Hondas, or why Toyota isn't like GM? And maybe we could allow for both positive and not so positive opinions about the 2009 Corolla here, rather than labelling people who don't love every aspect of the car "Toyota haters"? Thanks.
  • kasper06kasper06 Member Posts: 30
    It seems like some people are forming rather strong opinions (particularly negative) about the new 2009 Toyota Corolla without having seen it in person or driven it. And yes, you sound like a Toyota hater. From your current and previous posts you seem very biased against Toyota, particularly the Corolla. Opinions are fine but you beat a dead horse as someone noted earlier.
    Back to my original point, DRIVE IT FIRST then after that you will be able to form a more intelligent opinion that others here can respect. Thank you.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I will drive the Corolla before forming a final "consider/not consider" opinion. But please tell me, why is it unacceptable to form an initial opinion--in this case a negative one--of the new Corolla based on a lot of info, including several reviews/test drives by professionals, but it is fine for others to form an initial opinion without driving the car, if that opinion is positive?

    And why is it "beating a dead horse" to discuss concerns about the new Corolla, but not beating a dead horse to continually put forth (the same) positive opinions about it?

    And if you think I am a Toyota hater, you really aren't reading my posts, such as when I opined recently about how the Corolla of the '90s was probably the best car in its class--not just the best-selling car, the best car. How could I hate Toyota but say it can make the best car in its class? And why would someone who hates Toyota buy a Prius (but unfortunately have to let it go when it could not be delivered in time)? And why would someone who hates Toyota be eyeing the 2011 Prius as their next mom/pop car? :surprise: See why it's best to stick to cars vs. making incorrect gnereralizations about people?
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    So you really didn't buy a Prius or any other Toyota. Sorry backy, but you do sound like a Toyota hater to the rest of us.
    Mack :shades:
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Member Posts: 504
    I am not in favor of labelling people, either. We should focus on the substance of each argument, and leave out a lump sum approach that unfairly overgeneralizes each contributor into this and that category.

    I don't think that critical comments necessarily make anyone a hater, nor do supportive arguments necessarily make someone a cheerleader.

    The Corolla is in some ways a paradox par excellence in the auto world, which seems to evoke various kinds of emotion. Let's debate the car (and its business model) hard - but we need not unfairly label anyone while doing so.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Getting back to the topic in hand. I have some info on the 09 Matrix for all of you. Love it or hate it it's still going to be a very nice car even with the 4spd auto. ;)
    One thing I noticed on the Mechanical and Performance section that has not been mentioned at all is this:
    Active Torque Control with Electronic coupling. Sounds like Honda's ATTS system on their awd models and Prelude SH doesn't it?
    Other than this system everything else is pretty much what we know about the car.
    Cruise control and VSC are optional. I'm surprised they didn't make the cruise standard.
    No pricing yet.
    Stay tuned.
    :shades:
  • windjammerwindjammer Member Posts: 25
    And why is it "beating a dead horse" to discuss concerns about the new Corolla, but not beating a dead horse to continually put forth (the same) positive opinions about it?

    Posting a concern once is the way to establish a "legitimate concern". Posting that same concern a couple of times could be considered a way to establish "serious concern". However posting that same concern over and over is like.... well... "beating a dead horse"
  • mcmanusmcmanus Member Posts: 121
    I own Toyota (3rd one) and their dealer is the best in town, so I want to stay with them, but Gen 10 doesn't go where I wanted it to go (wider, heavier, safety numbed versus a 21st century economical version of a BMW 2002).

    I have zero respect for Motortrend. It is fully bought and paid for by advertisers. Car and truck of the year award winners are easier to predict than the weather (whose turn is it that has a hopefully market impacting new being released). Some of the past winners were worse than laughable.

    I rely on sources like Consumers Union and Edmunds.

    I will drive it as I'll be in the market this year. But have had a bad experience with a first year Camry ('97) and don't expect any deals on a first year product. Might as well go with a Scion xD.
  • mcmanusmcmanus Member Posts: 121
    I'm writing from a consumer's perspective, not the manufacturer's. So I don't care about marketing strategies or which company generates the greater profits.

    I had a '97 Camry and it was dull to the max (until the tranny went at 132k miles). We've all waited a long time for Gen 10 (wanted to buy another Toyota) and have seemingly gotten very little.

    All Gen 10 seems to do is to bring Corolla up to current industry standards. Its not faster, innovative, bigger, or safer than anything else out there. Hopefully it will be cheaper and maintain good reliablity.

    Again, I have zero respect for Motortrend (better named Advertising Moneytrend).
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    FYI I've owned 3 Toyotas, including 2 Corollas. I guess I must really hate them! :surprise:

    OTOH, I don't sell Toyotas for a living either. ;)
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,163
    . Its not faster, innovative, bigger, or safer than anything else out there.

    And why should it? If it meets sales and profit targets of the mfr., there is no need for them to go extra mile and make it better than necessary. If you don't like it, don't buy it. I know I wouldn't, for many reasons, but I totally respect their ways. My regret is that people don't share my criteria and Toyota marketing practices simply drive me nuts, but it is completely different issue. Their job is to make car at price that would both make best profit and sell. Corolla fits that profile. They do that consistently. Many others could do only one thing at the time - some either.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    That's about the essence of it. This is a huge and varied market. Each company chooses to produce a product that for it will make the most money. That's all that can be said.

    No one product will appeal to all buyers, some will be dissatisfied, some bored, others left wanting and for many it will just meet the need perfectly. All this is intentional.
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