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2009 Toyota Corolla

1525355575862

Comments

  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    I 'recognize' what you are describing but since I also have it on my Prius I also recognize that it's just an adjustment that needs to be acquired. Why 'needs'? EPS is the future. It is simpler and lighter and IMO now a more precise system than the prior hydraulic system.

    It does take a little to become accustomed to it because as a DBW system any small twitch or movement sends a signal to the steering actuators to make a movement. There is no 'play' in the system.

    OTOH on an open road I've tried driving up to a quarter of a mile with no hands on the wheel to see how the Prius tracks. With no outside intervention it's dead straight.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Had the car been PDI'd (PRE DELIVERY INSPECTED) sorry for the caps. I'm not screaming. and did it also have VSC? The cars with VSC that have not been pdi'd feel very strange. At low speeds the steering is very loose. Haven't tried one at high speed since we don't test drive on the road if a car has not been pdi"d.
    Mack
  • veldevelde Member Posts: 17
    I did phone the Toyota service department yesterday, where I test drove the car, asking if the steering could be adjusted. I was told there was no adjustment that they could make.
    But Mackabee makes an excellent point. It did have VSC on the car. I'm handing this down to my daughter so I wanted that feature. You think that's my problem?! It's either that or the Civic EX. I test drove that and it had Electric Steering - no problem, I was waiting for the 2009 to come out with the rumored VSC and Traction control. Now I'm wondering if that will generate the same issues in the Civic
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Why would the VSC settings affect the steering? I thought VSC works through the braking system, not steering. So, on the Corolla, VSC actually corrects the steering? Very interesting!

    BTW, many cars today have electronic steering. But not all have a problem with steering feel. But it is actually fairly easy to correct, since it is electronic. I remember reading about a review of the then-new 2007 Elantra by the Australian press. They blasted it for lack of steering feel. Some Hyundai engineers flew in and made some adjustments that greatly improved the steering, and they supposedly applied those changes across the board. So if this kind of tweaking is possible on the Corolla, it may not be something a dealer can do, but may be relatively easy for Toyota to make an ongoing change (maybe even apply it retroactively through a TSB) if they get enough complaints about it.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    I don't think the Corolla links the EPS to the VSC/TRAC/ABS system but it does do so in the Lexus models and the Hybrid HH and TCH. In Toyota's alphabet soup it's called VDIM.

    Essentially in an out-of-control situation the EPS limits the ability to turn in the wrong direction exacerbating a skid and assists in turning into the skid to minimize it. It can only be done on vehicles with EPS/VSC/ABS.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Drive one with VSC that has not been pdi'd and one that has and you'll feel the difference. Try it on a RAV4 also, that one is more noticeable on a non pdi'd one. It may not have anything to do with the vsc, I just noticed the different feel on the steering on cars with vsc that had not been pdi'd.
    Mack
  • howardm1howardm1 Member Posts: 3
    Hi all; useful reading. thanks.

    Just picked up an LE w/VSC, pref pack (bumper protector, mats) yest. Test drove it and Prius but decided to use diff for son's college tuition instead :-) Dealer had 4 LEs with VSC, if I remember right, when I chose a red one.

    Live in Central NJ and bought from a dealer here who reported they've stopped discounting since I bought (?); and that they are almost sold out of Corollas and 4 cyl. Camrys. I've had two Corollas before, a 2 dr 1980 and a five door hatch (1988 I think).

    My impressions after 50 miles on backroads to and from work: I like the pick up--not great but better than I expected; see what people are saying about steering, but feels like it just takes getting used to as others said. Fit and finish seem OK--don't like the center dash (black) texture--while they wipe off, appearance changes w/any contact. Radio seems easy to use though sound on basic stereo (4 spkrs) not so good; better playing my iPod, which has been adjusted, tone wise.

    I LOVE how quiet it is; I passed a 98 Camry onto my son, and maybe it's just age of car, but feels much quieter...Mileage, if the seven in one display is believed, was 32 on my first run to work.

    Two beefs: why did Toyota get rid of the handy sunglasses holders (my Camry and 02 Sienna had them--2 on the Sienna--and I love them!).

    Second, why/when did Toyota drop the visor extenders?

    Third nitpick: the hook in the front right for a bag seems too low to the floor to do any good.

    Fourth/final: 30 bucks for a spare key? Might be less, salesman said he'd get me one at cost? I know it's got the chip in it for the passive security sys...

    So, overall, these nits aside, it seems very nice and comfortable; have to learn the 'pump' for the driver seat, but I have a bad back and the seat is nice so far (we'll see after I take a longer trip...). The quiet and gas mileage made the sale for me.

    A neighbor just downgraded from an Explorer to a Subaru Impreza--nice looking, and AWD is nice, but 22 MPG? I'm :) with my 32plus.

    HR
  • harvey44harvey44 Member Posts: 178
    I'm curoius...how long is the wait for a Prius in central NJ?
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Probably the same as the rest of the country. Automotive news reports there is a shortage of battery packs. Nissan and Ford are also feeling the pinch. You may get lucky and someone that has one on hold and decides not to buy could be yours. You just have to be at the right place at the right time. We had one available on Saturday and you should have seen the feeding frenzy amongst the sales people. I sold it twice in two days. Saturday a guy that had been calling me since February happened to call me and I told him to hurry as it could be sold before he got there. This guy is a monument to indecision. His wife was along and even she got pissed at him for wasting our time. He drove the Prius, Yaris, and Scion xD and finally his wife talked him into buying the Prius. By the time it was all said and done the prep guys had gone home and no one to clean and wash the car. So he decides they will pick it up Sunday or Monday. Sunday he calls me after I called him since he was supposed to call me at 10 am and never did. He tells me he's not getting the car after all. I said ,ok. I have a plan b.
    That saturday while I was waiting for him to come in and the car to be inspected another customer asked me about the Prius.; I told him I was waiting for a customer to come by and buy it. After they came in and he saw what was going on I went and told him the car might be sold. He gave me his name and number and asked to be called if the deal fell through. I called him sunday and we met at the store at 12 noon. I went through the whole process with him also only to have the wife in Fl nix the deal. So I wasted 2 hours of my time on Sunday, 3 and a half on Saturday and have nothing to show for it.
    ?
    Mck
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Congrats on the new LE! :)
    A couple of suggies; try adjusting the tone control on the radio to tailor the sound to your liking. Just push the "Tune" button and the bass, treble, balance, and fader adjustments come up. I've found the sound system to sound quite good. The JBL upgrade is even better.

    Corolla never had sunglass holders.

    The sun visor extenders were dropped on the Camry in 2002 .

    The hook on the right side of the front is for ladies purses.

    As far as the key is concerned, if you are getting the key with the remote features it will be more than 30 dollars. The non remote with the chip only key is more than 30 dollars as it has to be programmed to the car as the key with remote functions.
    Mack
  • caseydeliacaseydelia Member Posts: 1
    I just bought a Standard automatic for less than $16K, and I'm happy (it's still a Corolla, if not a bit utilitarian). The "True Market Price" in my area (Podunk, North Dakota) was only $100 off MSRP, so I trekked the 500 miles to Minneapolis and got $700 better. With the 0% financing promotion and a $500 College rebate (which offers no payments for 90 days and one year free roadside assistance), it was a no-brainer. The gas mileage is superb (about 38 MPG back on the highway, and I am *not* a gentle driver). But the "multi-information display" is awful...you should be able to see your gas mileage and the clock at the same time, geesh!
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Good for you! Congrats. I've yet to see a Standard model Corolla. Our regional distributors don't order very many of them. I think for our 5 state region I've seen less than 10 on the monthly TVO Toyota vehicle order.
    :)
    Mack
  • rnakawatrnakawat Member Posts: 5
    I'm considering buying someone's last gens factory rim's for my 2009. Will they fit? Are they the same lug configuration and offset?
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    Yes, specs are the same. Wheels from the last gen Corolla will fit, as will wheels from the current gen Prius.
  • dd974dd974 Member Posts: 4
    Does anyone know if or when the HuskyLiner brand will become available for the 2009 Corolla. I had them in my Jeep Liberty which I traded for the Corolla and they worked out great. If anyone knows of some place online that offers these, please post links. Thanks.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I took an LE automatic for a spin today. The test drive pretty much confirmed what I have heard and read about the car, except for one little surprise re fuel economy.

    Here's my notes on the drive:

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef16b02/201
  • howardm1howardm1 Member Posts: 3
    Thanks. Both keys are over $30 huh?

    Now that I've had it over a week, I really like the car--low noise level, steering is fine for me (seems to be 'sportier' than others describe, but maybe my expectations are lower...?).

    The multi display thing is REALLY annoying; the clock on the audio display would have been a good idea, or at least a small clock tucked into a niche on the dash by itself (like on my 98 Camry and 03 Sienna).

    My MPG is a bit lower than expected, on mostly back road driving with mild stop and go at lights (it's back road NJ after all)--avg of 28. Even after a 40 mile each way trip to Philly for a ballgame, the MPG was only 32! Car still has less than 1000 miles on it, so maybe it'll get better.

    Everyone's right about the elbow rest being too hard! All else is good, no complaints.

    Re: Prius avail: salesman told me (for what that's worth) 3 mos delivery is now the norm; ALSO told me no more Corolla discounts (I got $1k off my LE with VSC, remote entry).

    Anyone know why they switched the remote entry from a fob to the key? Darn key is SO big...

    TTFN

    HM
  • veldevelde Member Posts: 17
    Backy,
    You are a wealth of information. Have you driven the 2008 Civic and if so, I wouldn't be interested in your thoughts.
    Velde
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I have, but since you aren't interested in my thoughts and it would be off-topic in this discussion, I won't say any more about it. (I did put a review in the same discussion as my Corolla comments, if anyone else is interested.)
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    Whoa, there! No point in talking about fuel consumption until at least the 3000 mile mark. For that matter, all of our Toyotas and Hondas have steadily improved in both fuel use and power available right up and through the 6000 mile point.

    Your fuel use is perfectly reasonable for this car and a green engine - it will improve at least 10% or more as the miles start to accumulate.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    I read your review on the Corolla. Man, you must have a lot of time on your hands to go from dealer to dealer testing new cars. Have they booted you off the lot yet?
    ;)
    Mack
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    It's cheaper to produce an all in one key rather than a key and a separate remote fob. Most Toyotas with the KE have that type of remote now. Avalon, Camry, Corolla, Matrix, Yaris, and Scions. I imagine we will soon be seeing it on the trucks and suvs.
    Mack
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Why would they boot a prospective buyer off the lot? I ran into a buddy of mine whom I've known for many years, a really great "master" sales rep, and he and I had a great time taking the new Corolla for a spin. If I do buy a Toyota, it would be from him.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    I don't think you are a prospective buyer. It seems to me you are a perpetual shopper/test driver. ;)
    Mack
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Yeah, I am weird... I actually like to evaluate cars (including at least one test drive) before I seriously consider buying them. Which I will be doing this fall. That will make six car purchases (or leases) in less than 10 years. I know it's easier for someone who works for a car maker--you pretty much know which brand you are going to drive, right? ;)
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Yeah, I probably wouldn't drive anything not made by Toyota. ;) Although I like Hondas also but I still believe Toyotas are better.
    Before I got in the business I knew pretty much what I wanted. I would get brochures, CR, Consumer Guide, and the little Edmund's pocket books. I would narrow my choices to two vehicles and then I would begin my visit to the first dealer to test drive. I usually end up buying from the salesperson that treats us best.

    I don't know if you ever read my story when I got back from Desert Storm and we were looking for a second car as the Toyota Van was not enough for two drivers. If things would have been different at the Honda dealer we went to I would be selling Hondas today. We were pretty much ignored when we pulled up. All the salespeople that were staring out of the showroom windows scrammed.
    I looked and went around to open the door so the kids could get out and also open the passenger side for my wife. I made a comment to her about what I saw and she saw it too.
    We walked to the lot and looked for the Accords. We found one with a manual tranny and we waited for a salesperson to come out. No one did. It was probably one of the hottest day in that summer so I told my wife I would go in and find a salesperson.
    When I walked into the showroom there was one guy reading a magazine and another behind a counter that I assumed was a sales manager. I walked up to him and told him I was buying a car today and I had been on the lot for over 20 minutes and no salesperson had come out to assist us. He apologized and looked over to the guy reading a magazine.
    "Hey Jack, this gentleman wants to look at a car." The guy got up and folded the magazine and came over. His expression made it seem like I had interrupted his dinner or something.
    He came up and said "Which car you want to drive." more of a command than a question. I told him there was a bronze accord I wanted to test drive. "Show me where it is." he said. We walked out to the car and he copied a number and said he would go get the key. We waited another 10 minutes and he shows up with the key and a d-tag.
    What happened next I will not forget for as long as I live. He unlocks the car and my three boys get in the back seat and buckle up. As my wife opens the front passenger door and is about to get in the car he stops her. "Oh no, I have to go with you on the test drive." he says. I looked at him and said to him "Where's my wife going to sit?" I asked, and this is what the moron said:

    "Just throw her in the back seat with the kids"

    :surprise: I could not believe my ears and my wife was so upset she stayed behind as I took this idiot on the ride of his life. Needless to say I didn't buy the Accord. On the was back to the dealer he asked which other cars I was considering. told him a Camry since we had already owned two Toyotas and they were bullet proof. He says to me "It looks like you already had your mind up on the Camry." and I replied: "No. This car was right up there too. Unfortunately the way you treated us makes me not want to come back to this dealership ever, See that woman standing outside the building? She has a pre-approved check in her purse. We are buying a car but not from you"
    I got the kids and met my wife at the edge of the building, we got back in our car and I said to her: "Honey, if I ever get into car sales I hope that I don't treat anyone like this guy treated us."
    Mack
  • robbiegrobbieg Member Posts: 346
    I am interested in the Corolla but want to know how car seats fit in the back seat. I need to put two in. One is for a newborn, so the car seat is going to click in. The other is a forward facing seat for a one year old. I am worried about the fit because the click in seat really doesn't fit into my 2005 Legacy.

    Thoughts?
  • veldevelde Member Posts: 17
    Mack,
    Great Story!
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Best thing to do is take your car seats down to the Toyota dealer and do a test-fit in a Corolla, to make sure everything fits the way you want. There is much variation in car seats, and in attachments for car seats.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Thank you! :blush:
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Good story Mack..

    My own is similar and how ironic ( see below ).

    1989 my former company promotes me and as an officer I'm entitled to choose any vehicle under $20000 which they will buy for me outright. I'm very hot to get an Accord at that time so my wife and I go to the local Accord store ( the three children are left with the oldest as the sitter ) in North Jersey and do the whole process...lambs to the slaughter so to speak. Well the '89 Accord was very very nice and I decided to buy it. We go inside and get everything written up and as we're going over the figures there's a $2500 surcharge in the vehicle price. Huh?

    'What's that?' says the neophyte.
    'Accords are the hottest vehicle on the market now. It's a market adjustment surcharge.' replies shark.
    Til now we've been like George Halas as described by Mike Ditka; i.e. we threw around nickels like they were manhole covers. All our prior vehicles were purchased preowned. The only reason that this is a new one is that someone else is buying it for us. $2500 surcharge??? That brings this $18000 Accord to over $20,500 plus NJ taxes and fees.

    'I'm not paying that.'
    Now the kicker ala Mack's story.

    'Well don't expect to go anywhere else and try to negotiate something better. We all talk to each other, ya know.' DING!!!!!!!!! [ thoughts of attacking slimebag scum-sucking shark are somehow repressed]

    So I walk out the front door of the store across the parking lot shared with the Toyota store walk in the front door there. 'I want to test drive a Camry' 'Sure'. Cliff Notes: With an $800 discount off MSRP I drive away 2 hours later in my first new Camry at about $17500 +TTF.

    Denoument: 10 Toyota's later [ 3 more Camrys, MR2 Spyder, Highlander, Prius, Solara Conv, Tacoma ( son ), Supra ( son ), Celica ( dtr ) ] I am now working in my retirement job on the other side of town from Mack selling Toyota's as he does.

    I still haven't purchased my first Honda. I just enjoy keeping them well down in 3rd or 4th place.
  • howardm1howardm1 Member Posts: 3
    Yeah, that makes sense...darn thing is SO big...that ergonomic doesn't factor in.

    Do you (or any other reader) know where I can find a softer console cover? Driving it every day now for two weeks it's a little elbow-numbing.

    Again, these are all relatively trivial points; I really like the car. Hope the fellow who responded to me that the mpg will go up is right though...But I would like to be able to find a softer console cushion that doesn't look taped on...and a decent looking I pod holder I can attach too.

    thanks everyone.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Great stories! I always wonder what leads people into car sales, and why they have a brand preference if they do. It has been my consistent experience over 25 years that Toyota dealers are much much easier to deal with than Honda dealers. There are bad Toyota dealerships too of course, but I have never met a GOOD Honda sales person. And what's with the "I have to come along and babysit" attitude from Honda dealers? At my local Toyota store they just toss me the keys and ask me to please limit my test drive to 30 minutes. Ditto at the Subaru store, I might add.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    You could check with an auto upholstery shop, the kind that does custom interiors. Should be a relatively trivial exercise to fasion a custom padded cover (vinyl or leather) that wraps over the hard plastic one.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    They are really great stories. And they save me from having to wade through the thousands of posts in the "Stories from the Sales Front Lines" discussion to get stories like that. Must be tons of stories like that in there. ;)
  • bearcrkrdbearcrkrd Member Posts: 167
    I just bought a Honda Civic. It did seem a bit strange that the saleman had to not only come along, but HAD to drive the vehicle off the lot. We pulled over down the street. I was driving when we came back, though (?). I had purchased 5 new Toyotas from Thanksgiving 2000, last one 20 months ago. I wanted to try something different, thinking maybe something could happen and this would be my last new car. They tossed me the keys the last couple time I was shopping at Toyota. I don't test drive unless I'm serious, I do like to look around showrooms and open doors and kick tires when the new model year comes out. Anyway, I believe I did say I was serious, and they tossed me the keys. That was the right move. RESPECT. I remember it enough to bring it up here after 20 months.
    This time around I got the Edmunds number on the purchase, but the trade was another matter. I traded down, but my third fill-up was 40mpg, and that was the whole point.
    I live just South of Seattle. There are a good number of new Civic 2 and 4 doors on the road. There are TONS of Corollas. The reviews are nuetral at best, yet they are selling like hotcakes. The redesign has used a couple of lines that make the thing look lower and wider, and the nose is better looking, too. I think the Corolla is better looking than the Camry. Lastly, I wanted to buy a Saturn Astra, to support GM. I checked them out a couple times after they arrived. Didn't drive, just looked on the lot. I was impressed, and the 100,000 mi warranty was super. I traded an 18-19 month old Sienna, and went with the best gas mileage I could find, and it was cheaper by a couple thousand, or more, than the Astra. I do feel kinda bad. It was a bad financial deal to start with, and I just couldn't make it worse. Anyway, what I wanted to point out is this; I have seen ONE Astra in a parking lot, a little dirty, and with a lincense plate, so it was purchased by someone. That's it!!! Not a single one driving down the road. Any road, anywhere!
    Thanks for the stories!!
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Our store instituted a ride with every customer unless there is no room then we have to do a permission to ride slip. That lasted for about a week as it took to much time to copy the license, enter their information in the CRM, and then print the permit.

    I always ask if they like for me to come along in case they have some questions. 99% of the time they tell me to come along.
    :)

    :shades:
  • nedzelnedzel Member Posts: 787
    Almost all of the times that I've test driven a car, the sales guy drives it off the lot. I don't understand the logic behind that.
  • veldevelde Member Posts: 17
    I was told by a salesman at Hyundai recently that they are liable if you hit a customer walking through the parking lot while they are weaving in and out between the cars as they are browsing, so they hand over the wheel to you once you are free of their property.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    Well, I live near San Francisco, and I have to say that about half the cars on the road around here are Civics or Corollas. I have noticed the '09 Corolla in large numbers on our streets already, but I don't think they are outpacing Civics (the new style) that still have the dealer sticker instead of a license plate.

    I, like you, went to check out Astras recently because I had looked forward to their arrival eagerly. The EPA rating on the stick is 24/32, which is only a little worse than Civic/Corolla, and the drive was pretty nice. I wasn't moved to trade early, but I will keep them in mind next time I do trade. Also similar to you, I have yet to see ANY Astras on the roads here. It will be a shame for GM if this thing totally flops, as it is a car worthy of consideration. I would argue that it is at least as good a deal, and with a nicer interior and better moves on the road, than the '09 Matrix.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • bearcrkrdbearcrkrd Member Posts: 167
    I think that's what I was told. Slipped my mind in all the excitement.
    Just got back from a 790 mile road trip. Averaged 42 +, that's with 4 mountain passes, only one of which was on an Interstate. That's for my new home forums, I guess. ;)
  • bearcrkrdbearcrkrd Member Posts: 167
    I test drove a Civic LX and Vibe base w/2.4 and Auto. Had rented an xD for a day a couple of weeks prior. One gear short, but I think the Scion would have been the best $$ factoring in the Trade. Thought the Vibe was best looking. It was more $ and higher interest, but had more features, as the Civic LX has drum brakes and no tractiojn/stability control and a smaller engine with less torque. Civic felt better, so Astra probably would have, too. Wish GM well with it! I was all over my state today, and didn't see an Astra. Fair portion of the just under 800 miles were in the less populated areas, though.
  • harvey44harvey44 Member Posts: 178
    So how long would the wait be? Guess if you can?
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    "So how long would the wait be? Guess if you can?"

    Your guess is as good as mine right now. We don't have any new Prius on the lot and there is/are none on our next month's allocation. I figure we might have seen the last of the 08's. The factory in Japan is gearing up (no pun intended) for the 09 which will have a slightly bigger power plant and Hybrid synergy drive system and is rumored to get 80mpg. Stay tuned. I'll post more when I get the scoop.
    Mack
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Member Posts: 7,160
    Whoooooaaaaa, Mack.

    None of that is accurate on the Prius. The new 09's which will be here in Sept/Oct will be exactly the same as the 08s. Zero difference. It's the 2010 MY Prius' which will have the changes. These should arrive next summer, i.e. 14 months from now.

    They will have a more powerful powerplant but they will get nowhere near 80 mpg. There may be a 10-20% improvement over the 48 mpg of the current Gen2's which would bring the effective fuel economy to 55-60 mpg for most drivers.

    Check PriusChat...
  • cz75cz75 Member Posts: 210
    You'd think Toyota would've wanted to try harder than try to compete with this loser against the Mazda3 or Civic, but alas it must be an urban myth because they sure didn't.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    "You'd think Toyota would've wanted to try harder than try to compete with this loser against the Mazda3 or Civic, but alas it must be an urban myth because they sure didn't. "

    Loser? The Corolla is whipping both the Mazda and Civic, and Sentra, and Aveo, Fit, etc.etc.etc....Loser?
    :shades:
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    I haven't seen anything to the contrary coming from Toyota. Word has it we are getting two new hybrids later this year. One for us and one for Lexus. ;)
    Mack
  • jendanandjendanand Member Posts: 1
    How do I cancel the auto door lock function on my 09 Corolla LE with the smart key system?
  • harvey44harvey44 Member Posts: 178
    Hard to call the Corolla a loser. They'll sell every single one without an incentive and it will probably be in the top five in sales. But they could have made it a little more exciting I think.

    Looking for a loser...trying the new Ford truck.
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