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http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage?ws=uf
You should see it about halfway down the front page. Looks official, Automotive News is very careful about what it publishes. Although it still could change again, of course.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I cannot access the site at all because the facility uses software to block time-wasting, pornographic, or otherwise irrelevant sites (but, for some reason, I can get this one).
Thanks.
Thanks,
Ken
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The Prius is sort of the test model for HSD (Hybrid Syngergy Drive) technology. Prius will, likely, introduce the first plug-in version of Hybrid Syngergy Drive.
I'll post some links on that particular product's development shortly. But, for now, the basic idea of a plug-in hybrid is (1) beef up the battery reserve, (2) put a beefier motor in the car so (3) one can go MUCH longer distances MUCH faster . . . on pure electric. The gas kicks in over 50 mph or after the first 60+ miles, making the combustion engine a secondary engine, NOT a primary engine.
Neat thing is that setup will give a 100+ mpg car. Based on some current research in Canada and California, there is a real chance we could hit about 200 mpg with the plugin technology.
In any case, Prius will be the sort of "testing ground" for such technology (to see if consumers will buy it).
The Corolla is a normal car which may use such technology after Prius tests it.
That is why the Prius, like the Yaris and Scion vehicles, has that "ultra-weird" dashboard: evidently, Toyota believes "greenies" are just grown-up teenagers with an emotionally-vested perspective in "weird" and "unique" and "groovy." The irony is that dashboard is the only thing in Prius I really and truly dislike (and I dislike it VERY heartily).
And, conversely, that is why the Corolla has a normal, needle-pointing-at-gauge dashboard. Responsible adults are supposed to like Corolla. We're NOT supposed to be "weird" or "unique" or "groovy."
Or so my reasoning goes.
"Neat thing is that setup will give a 100+ mpg car."
We've already got plenty of 100+ mpg cars.
Take a car. Put it at the top of a mountain and let it coast down in neutral. Measure the fuel consumed. Hey! Whaddaya know......100+ mpg. Or put the car on a trailor and haul it 100 miles. Measure the fuel in the cars tank before and after. WOW!!!! What great mileage!!!
Sarcastic? Yes. Plug-in hybrids are NOT "100+ mpg cars" because they don't travel all their distance ON GAS.
If my daily commute was 5 miles each way and I never exceeded 40mph, I could theoretically never use any gas. Would my mileage be 100 mpg? 1000 mpg? How about a BILLION miles per gallon?
MPG is a measure of how much gas was consumed IN ORDER TO move a car x number of miles; not how much gas was consumed WHILE the car was moved x number of miles.
rant off
And now back to your regularly scheduled program, already in progress....
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060711/FREE/60709001/1041
In it, the announcement seems official that the new Corolla is now set back to a debut 20 months away. Apparently Japan and Europe will get theirs before we do.
It goes on to cite exactly what I thought it would, basically that the current model is selling so well with practically no incentives (increasing sales year over year despite its age) that there is no point in rushing to update it.
Plus, there is an internal struggle between the conservative and avant garde stylists as to how the next Corolla should look. Apparently the new Civic scared them, which I can't see any reason for. Depending on your POV, the new Civic is either nicely streamlined in kind of a dull way or a little weird looking, IMO. I don't like the enormously long, cab-forward-1980s-minivan windshield all that much, the back just looks uninspiring, and the wheel covers on the 16s of the LX model kind of stand out as cheap-looking because they are so big and plasticky.
I am sure the powers that be just want the next Corolla to look like a bigger Yaris and smaller Camry, which 2 models already look so similar it is uncanny. While I wouldn't think that is the BEST road for the new Corolla to take, I don't think it should be outlandish either. Better to let the Corolla's buyer base age a bit - this is a model that draws in commuters of all ages, so it wouldn't do to bring out a polarizing Corolla that kills sales.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
That was my point - the electric motor keeps the car going up to 45 mph and the gas engine takes over then.
What is your issue with this, exactly?
Kinda like saying my bike does not use any gas, but it does run on cheeseburgers (that are eaten) which cost money and may be from beef that was grazed by clearcutting the rainforests.
It's a complex equation...
..can/should PHEV's be allowed to charge up in peak hours or only in off peak hours?
..how many PHEV's can be put into use before additional energy is needed ( pollution produced )at the central power plants?
..is there a parabolic curve where too few PHEV's don't save enough and too many use too much extra energy?
The benefit of PHEV's is that you can 'power them up' at night when the plants are using less capacity and may in fact need some usage.
Dead-on.
I live in Rochester, NY - near Ithaca and Cornell, which has an "alternative energy" program.
Here's some of what has happened with plug-in . . . cost data is presented on some sites (explore for yourself).
Calcars hybrid program: http://www.calcars.org/priusplus.html
E-drive: http://www.edrivesystems.com/index.html
Canada's Hymotion: http://www.hymotion.com/ (note the Canadian govt. is buying modified Toyota hybrid fleets from these fellows)
The Wikipedia general info on the product: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_hybrid_electric_vehicle
The plug-in is cheap to run precisely because it uses less expensive electricity at lower speeds, reserving the liquid fuel and related combustion engine at higher speeds (where combustions engines run more efficiently and effectively, in any case).
To bring this full circle, the Prius is rumored to be headed this direction.
The Corolla may allegedly get Hybrid Synergy Drive.
Either way, it will be a good number of years before we see HSDs as the "norm" in Toyota's lineup. Change happens slowly.
Which, actually, is sad: I adored the Camry Hybrid I test drove.
I just can't afford it - ergo my hopes for a Corolla HSD (or at least an S with a 5-speed) in 07 or 08.
I just re-read wondering why he ranted so.
I get the distinction . . . but the reality is that, with current technology, I don't think there is a way to build a VERY efficient car that can also go long distances without marrying the electric and the combustion outside the Toyota Hybrid Syngergy Drive.
And HSD is pretty amazing stuff - compared with the Honda version, it's rather technically advanced.
But, until that "next best thing" comes along?
I'm willing to be an engineering dolt and regard it as an integrated propulsion system (because Toyota Marketing tells me to :P ).
IMO next year is the year of the Tundra. Nothing is going to get in the way of the rollout of this new vehicle as it goes for the heart of the truck market. Nothing.
It's fortuitous that the Corolla is still doing so well. All the equipment is fully depreciated and the lines are humming at full capacity and the incentives are amazingly - zero. The Corolla is just a cash machine now.
OTOH the timing of the Tundra investment in TX is dicey. With gas at $3.00 and higher(?) and domestic trucks tanking ( along with the older Tundra ) it's not surprising that they want everything to be focused on the Tundra.
But still, it seems good business to continue a model selling this well, even increasing its sales despite its age. The market is fickle: change it just a little for the next generation and you may no longer have the magic equation, with a consequent drop in sales. One thing's for sure, the price will go up a good bit for the next model.
Right now nothing much can beat it for price. Not even the Koreans. The ages-old Focus can, but it's also ages old, and showing it.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I get the distinction . . . but the reality is that, with current technology, I don't think there is a way to build a VERY efficient car that can also go long distances without marrying the electric and the combustion outside the Toyota Hybrid Syngergy Drive."
Well, I'm glad at least one person gets the distinction.
For the record, I'm all in favor of more research and implementation of plug-in hybrids. I think that they are the logical next-step beyond the current Toyota HSD or Hondas IMA. I just get irritated at the technically inaccurate claims of "100+ mpg".
But that's MY little problem...
Technically, it IS inaccurate. Agreed. But I nearly missed your point in the content of the rant.
In application, though, low use of the combustion engine is the end result (or the effective end result) for a plug in hybrid . . . which means VERY stingy fuel use. While electric motors do wonderfully with the "start from a dead-stop" and "low speed changes" kind of thing based on how they (1) work and (2) deliver the power, internal combustion engines do better at what effectively end up being highway speeds.
Add to the mix that that first approximately 60 to 75 miles from the heavy electric mode of plug-in hybrid costs from between 75 cents to a buck or so . . . and that is wonderfully cost effective.
Fully electric cars are neat, but that whole "cannot go very long distances" thing is, indeed, a problem given how "average families" travel.
Granted, speaking for myself, as age 40 looms, the idea of "car trip" grows less and less appetizing: I try to keep my headaches few and far between, so I probably could use an fully electric car.
I'll just be happy, though, with a Corolla HSD for now.
next Gen Corolla?
The TN material conflicts with this press release from Toyota Motor in Autoweek:
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060619/FREE/60619005/1041/T- OC01ARCHIVE
The Corolla after all has to remain an economy sedan in the $15-$19K range so it makes sense that the 1.8L will reamain the basic engine. However as a replacement for the Celica the Corolla Coupe, if it exists, could go with the 2.0L.
The timing and the other specs from the TN post seem reasonable.
Nice to see them put a Corolla GTS back out there after all these years. The spiritual successor to the AE86 will have BIG shoes to fill, even if it is unfortunately FWD.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It's nice to see that Toyota is launching a new family of 4s, just as they introduced in '03 with the new family of V6s, now permeating to most Toyota V6 models. This could also explain why Toyota did not significantly redesign/upgrade the Camry 4 with Dual VVTi for the '07 redesign. Sounds like it might be possible as an MMC upgrade for '10 model year. (God, that sounds bizarre 2010)
~alpha
Yes different segments, but like the Camry this year nothing else is taking attention away from the primary product. Jan/Feb '08 seem correct to me for the new Corolla.
.....besides the Yaris and the FJ Cruiser (and, to a lesser extent, the all new Rav4 which was only a few months old when the Camry debuted).
Why would they have trouble "stealing the Tundra's thunder" when they had no trouble releasing 2 other all new vehicles and 1 other completely redesigned vehicle within months of the new Camry? I think the Corolla has been delayed less because of the Tundra and more because of the fact that they want to attempt to "one-up" the new Civic and soon-to-be-released '07 Elantra, which looks pretty impressive on paper at least. That, and the ridiculous sales numbers on the current generation Corolla hardly require any panic....
After all they hype about Civic's alleged 2.0 liter?
Go take a close look at the Honda USA website and check out the engine specs for any Civic Coupe or Sedan (dx, lx, ex) and tell me what you see?
Seriously - how many liters does the little Honda sport?
I get this odd feeling that the Japanese car companies are still following the "wee engine with acceptable performance and good efficiency" equation and just rounding the "size" data upwards.
Fuel where I live is now $3.14 a gallon, US dollar. Expected to rise before Summer's end.
I hope the FE thing proves to be the guiding force in build and sales: I can't afford much more debt at this point!
The marketing hype for the new Honda Civic in the USA is that it sports a 2.0 liter engine with more HP and torque AND better FE than the previous generation Civic.
Now, here is a direct cut-and-paste from Honda USA's website on some engine data for Civics, as they are sold here in the US, as they are driving on US roads, right now.
Civic Coupe:
Displacement (cc) 1799
Horsepower @ rpm (SAE net, Rev 8/04)* 140 @ 6300
Torque (lb.-ft. @ rpm) 128 @ 4300
Redline (rpm) 6800
Bore and Stroke (mm) 81 x 87.3
Compression Ratio 10.5:1
Civic Sedan (which should be identical, and is, but am pasting anyhow in the interest of integrity):
Displacement (cc) 1799
Horsepower @ rpm (SAE net, Rev 8/04)* 140 @ 6300
Torque (lb.-ft. @ rpm) 128 @ 4300
Redline (rpm) 6800
Bore and Stroke (mm) 81 x 87.3
Compression Ratio 10.5:1
The Civic is NOT a 2.0 liter! It's just short of a 1.8 liter, albeit by a single cc (a very wee amount, indeed).
With modern engines, the need for upping liters for performance is really . . . well, 1960s-archaic.
After all, Lotus uses a Toyota-made 1.8 four-cylinder in all Lotus models today . . . and I don't think I soul is about to argue that Lotus is a sluggish vehicle.
Regards
Fast and style
In case we have another Katrina in the Mexico Gulf, or getteing worse eith the arabian conflict, and 10% less with the gasoduct close from Alaska, recently George Bush said the american are petroleumholics. like drunks with alcoholic. What do you think
Outside the rumors, I know nothing.
Sorry there - but I will post something if I find any legitimate news.
Reality is, Edmunds will be among the first to report on the introduction of a Corolla Hybrid: a Corolla Hybrid will be, in truth, quite a step forward (whenever it finally happens).
The Civic Si DOES have a 2.0 liter with more Hp and torque. The other Civics do (according to the EPA) have higher FE than the last Civic.
BUT - I clearly left that part about "SI" and 2.0 out.
My bad: sorry about that.
Wanna bet that the weight gain in the next-gen Corolla will be at least 200 pounds? And FE won't rise.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Yeppers. Sad, that.
Funny thing is the Lotus runs the *SAME* engine as the Corolla, but with more advanced tuning and modified intake et. al.
Nice car - and I get a total kick out of the fact that the car can just zip along like lightning on the little 1.8.
Carbon fiber and aluminum, carbon fiber and aluminum, it is the intensive use of these materials that will lead the way to weight reduction in cars these days, I think. And of course it will be MANY a day before we see the extensive use of these materials in a car in Corolla's price class.
Of course, they can always use plastic - I was aghast to see that the new BMW 3-series uses plastic front fenders? That is certainly one way to reduce weight, but in a car as expensive as the BMW, I would expect to see use of expensive lightweight materials, not just plastic.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
That stuff is just nasty.
Sadly, it seems manufacturers love plastic.
Are you sure on the diff between the two engines? I may be getting memory-mushed, but I could have sworn the 1.8 in the Lotus was identical, save for some minor (but significant) design differences such as, for example, using cogs-and-chains in place of belts. As for the Toyota nomenclature for the engines, I ain't THAT familiar with the product to know.
Plastic.
Ya hit a nerve here!
Even the BMW-made, BMW-designed Rolls-Royce has plastic. Nasty stuff.
And, on that note, I have to say that, while Toyota also does plastic? They seem to do a decent job of it.
Except for the Yaris: that one needs to go back to the drawing board (interior - not exterior).
They then fortified the internals of the Celica engine, and also modified the 6-speed transmission a bit for better shifting.
Plastic is pretty garbagey stuff, but it is
1. cheap cheap cheap
2. fairly durable, and most importantly
3. LIGHTWEIGHT! It will be the primary material used in the struggle to lighten the fleet, I am sure. If, that is, there is an attempt to lighten the fleet as Automotive News is now saying there is, already underway.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
(1) have no bigger than a 1.8 liter,
(2) be all-plastic bodied,
(3) cost as much as a Benz.
Actually, I'm totally kidding (at least for now!), but was trying to move us back toward topic.
Sorry it took so long. Hope it works.
Still - promising the idea is out there and being tested!
Granted, if gas rises too much more, "good FE" will come to mean "bicycle!"
Granted, speculation is pointless: Toyota will do what Toyota will do.
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060816/FREE/60814019/1041/a- - cura
This probably means polarizing looks and no-haggle Scion pricing with a gazillion accessories available from the dealer next time around. Not exactly my cup of tea.
Still, I won't mind if Toyota also offers a proper Corolla hatchback or wagon next time around - there has been rumor of a 5-door hatch like Ford's Focus ZX5. I would take the Toyota instead.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
http://streetredline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167
http://page13.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/r27670177
It's a Japanese "staff manual" for the upcoming Corolla Fielder, which is the Japanese-market Corolla station wagon. The auction note says that it is a confidential manual for sales use, intended for the October 2006 release.
It gives us a good idea of the final design of the upcoming Corolla.