2009 Toyota Corolla

jaxs1 · December 2006

Has Toyota made any official announcement on the release date of the US version of the 2008 Corolla? Spring or fall 2007?

jaxs1 · December 2006

If they offer the navigation system in the US, it is possible that it could be listed at "around" $1,000 since it was something like $1300 on the Camry Solara. However it was only available when bundled with an expensive stereo upgrade, so the real cost to get it with the nav still is well over $2000 over one without and Toyota doesn't make nav systems as nice and easy to use as Honda and some other car makers anyway.

kdhspyder · December 2006

It's not official but I believe it's spring of 2008. It was normally scheduled for spring 2007 but it was pushed back a year.

Lot's of speculation why.

jaxs1 · December 2006

That would make it a 2009 model unless they plan to sell 2007 Corollas into spring 2008 (which would be hard to be believe when the Corolla design is already so old).

nippononly · December 2006

Sonatabean, you said it yourself - that first car for most of the kiddies is used. And today's new '08 Corolla is tomorrow's USED '08 Corolla. Make it an "aged" design, and you have condemned it to reduced youth sales new OR used for the next five years. Eventually those youth go buy new cars, and I would imagine they often buy new in the same brand as their treasured youth ride....

I would LOVE a sport version of the next Corolla with the little 2L V-6 they use in the Japanese market models. But in that case, I bet the standard engine stays a 1.8, bumped up to 140 hp or so, to continue competing head to head with the Civic while keeping the fuel economy high.

fastandstyle · December 2006

I cant wait to see the S Loaded version and maybe a 200HP XRS Corolla Coupe it will be music and passion to drive with style en Fuel Efficciency.

200 Hp Engine, Tiptronic Transmision, ABS, EBD,4 disk Brakes, Navigation System, Sun Roof, 17 Alloy Wheels and 215-50-17 Goodyear Tires, front and rear stability bars, this will be a nice and fun to drive car....

xumed07 · December 2006

I read on VTEC.net (yeah, I know a Honda site) that based on Japanese standards, the new '08 Corolla gets 17.2 km/l [based off the CVT] versus 17.0 km/l for the Civic. With that said, I doubt Toyota would raise the HP from 134 to 140ish and be able to maintain the same fuel economy or at least equal the new Civic's fuel economy. I wonder what the US fuel economy rating will be? 31-2/40-1?

sonatabean · December 2006

...based on Japanese standards, the new '08 Corolla gets 17.2 km/l ...

Call me a science geek, but I did the math on what 17.2 km/L comes to as far as US miles per gallon.

That's 40 mpg in US miles and US gallons: one less than the current Corolla gets highway.

:shades:

xumed07 · December 2006

Hey, there's nothing wrong with science geeks, especially engineers. They're responsible for the cars, cell phones, medicines, and pretty much everything else we take for granted. Anyways, I guess you are referring to the manual version (32/41)?

Well, here's the link to the vtec site post I was talking about. In this post, he's comparing the new Civic engine to the new Corolla engine.

http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-message?message%5fid=630270

nippononly · December 2006

suspect that the extra time they are putting into the launch of the new Corolla will cause a correspondingly greater increase in the price of the new model than if they had released it in spring '07?

They would be unwise to price the base model higher than the Civic LX, I think.

And geez, to look at that press release linked above makes me wish Toyota would put more of the features in Japan out for buyer's option here. I assume the new model will have optional keyless start-n-go, as that seems to be getting very common in the market. Back-up cameras, I think, will still be unavailable here.

In Japan, the only available manual is with the 1.5L engine, which I assume we will not get here. I truly hope this does not mean no manual availability with the new model, otherwise I have owned my last Corolla.....

alpha01 · December 2006

There's a manual still in three Camry trim lines, that vehicle would lose that option before the Corolla does. I don't think you need to worry; there are no other vehicles in the segment that are auto only, and Toyota would immediately lose a chunk of sales due to this fact.

Most Corollas (from this generation) that I see ARE autos, but there are definitely a good deal of 5Ms out there. I wouldn't want a 5M in the car, though, due to the currently awkward driving position and relationship between pedal, steering wheel, shifter, and driver geometry.

~alpha

kdhspyder · December 2006

OTOH, I think this current engine, the way it's tuned, screams to be driven as a manual.

alpha01 · December 2006

My statement wasn't in regards to the engine/transmission tuning, it was in regards to the fact that the Corolla has an awkward driving position geometry for the accomdation of standard transmission driving. The engine may be a GREAT match for the 5M, but if its a pain in the [non-permissible content removed] to DRIVE (its not all about specs, ya know?) from a ergonmics/comfort standpoint, I could care less.

~alpha

nippononly · December 2006

with the automatic, the most comfortable driving position relative to the pedals places the steering wheel too far away, but with a manual the steering wheel is just the right distance, because I like to be a little closer to the pedals to be able to fully depress the clutch.

I also hope they don't make the next Corolla's auto option a CVT like in Japan. That would be bad enough as an option, but absolutely a non-starter for me as the sole transmission.

alpha01 · December 2006

What's wrong with CVTs?

~alpha

dudleyr · December 2006

"What's wrong with CVTs?"

No clutch pedal!

jaxs1 · December 2006

They cannot arbitrarily put a high price on them. They have to have a competitive price unless they don't want to sell high volumes.

nippononly · December 2006

really dislike CVTs, the slipping clutch feeling that all the magazines say is gradually being designed out but still is very apparent to me even in brand new models like the Versa. They are loud if you try to accelerate fast, and I don't trust their durability.

As for the price of the next Corolla, I was thinking what if they base it around $17,5? It would still be more than $2000 less than any of the volume Camry models (CE notwithstanding), and would be fairly competitive with the Civic. But in real-world terms it would be a good $2-3K more than the current model, quite a price shock from one generation to the next. I suppose it would get discounts fairly quickly as the new Camry did this year, but none of the deep discounting it is getting now, so I figure it would still be a solid $2000 or more higher after the changeover.

I quite like the look of the current one, it has grown on me over time, and given what I am sure will be a hefty price hike come February 2008, I might just run out next fall and buy one of the last current-gen models. I can forgive some of the cheapest aspects of the current model given a real-world price of $14-16K. These days, that's not a lot of car money...

jaxs1 · December 2006

There are rarely "hefty" increases in MSRP from one generation to another in these kinds of cars.
It will cost more to buy because of lack of rebates and other discounting and maybe there will be some new standard equipment that will be added to base MSRP (maybe standard ABS etc.), but I really doubt there will be any shockinlg higher MSRP list price for a like equipped new model vs old model.
It is also possible there will be new optional eqipment that will make the max fully loaded price higher. For instance it might have optional nav system and they could also bring back leather seats and so on that could greatly raise the price of a maxed out Corolla.
However, if you option it closely to a equivelent old model, I bet the MSRP will only be marginally higher. Nothing dramatically higher on the MSRP for the same equipment.

backy · December 2006

If ABS and side bags/curtains are added as standard equipment to make the new Corolla more competitive with the likes of Civic and Elantra, those additions alone could add about $1000 to the base price. And with Toyota promising to put VSC on all of their cars by 2009, that's another standard feature (at least by 2009) and more cost. As long as the new Corolla (LE) is competitive with the Civic LX, they can price the Corolla at that level.

jaxs1 · December 2006

That would not really be a price increase unless you are trying to find a car without safety equipment.
If you wanted side curtain airbags and ABS, then you would have had to pay for it as an option anyway instead of it being included in the base price.

The bottom line price after the options you want is the real price. Forget base MSRP before options.

backy · December 2006

But it is an increase in the base price of the car. So people will suddenly see the price of the Corolla jump up (consider that today most Corollas do not have ABS and side bags), and may not consider the extra equipment. I've seen that behavior happen with the 2007 Elantra, which added side curtains, ABS, and other features standard, and some people are complaining about the increase in price.

jaxs1 · December 2006

The Yaris is still there and it is very difficult to find with abs and side curtain airbags. So, people looking only at price and oblivious to what's included in the price can get that or an Accent.

I'm sure many Yaris shoppers reluctantly upgraded to Corollas or something else after giving up on finding a Yaris with the options they wanted that existed only in the brochures.

The Civic is the most direct competitor and it has these things standard and included in the price. The Corolla will simply have to have a price that is competitive the a new Civic.

backy · December 2006

And it's also possible Toyota will offer a value-leader Corolla w/o all the safety features standard--although that will be difficult to do come 2009, if they make VSC (and hence ABS) standard on all their cars. That will add to the Yaris' price also.

jaxs1 · December 2006

No value leader Corolla is needed. That is what a Yaris is for and it will give bargain hunters more reason to look at the Yaris.
Otherwise, why bother with a Yaris when it gets no better fuel economy if you could get a Corolla for near the same price?

backy · December 2006

Why have the Corolla CE then? Isn't that a value leader for the Corolla line?

jaxs1 · December 2006

They may have been selling a lot of the CEs to rental fleets anyway just like CE Camrys.

alpha01 · December 2006

Actually, you're wrong, the rental Camrys, which I believe at current are 9% of 2007 MY sales, are almost exclusively NO OPTION SE 4 cylinder 5A models. My guess is that Toyota is trying to show that the Camry isn't just a floaty Buick-like sedan, and the SE does well to showcase this. I'm not sure what the mix on the Corolla is.

With regards to a value leader model, backy, does the entry level version necessarily mean value leader?

I think its reasonable to expect that Toyota will NOT introduce both ABS and VSC as standard on the next Corolla, though I would expect ABS and side curtains. At current retail prices, these (necessary, IMO) options add about $950 IIRC, and so I don't think its unreasonable to expect that big of a price increase on the Corolla. The good thing about a redesign, though is that it will likely it is a fresh design, which should be worth something in itself, as well as several standard features that might be upgrades from the current (for ex, how the Camry moved to 16 inch wheels as standard...).

That said, side curtains were made standard on Camrys with the redesign, and the prices did not jump $650 on comparable LEs, for example.

From a competitve standpoint, I don't think the Yaris competes well at the bottom of the market, except equipped very specifically (like a loaded 3 door hatch with ABS, Side Curtains, and 5M), but the sales numbers indicate otherwise.

I mention this because I'd *RATHER* see the Corolla move up a notch, as the Mazda 3 and Civic, and to some extent, the Elantra have done.... there's no longer a need for the Corolla to carry the entry econo car market for Toyota.

~alpha

nippononly · December 2006

alpha's projected $950 increase for standard ABS and side airbags, which I consider highly likely for the next Corolla, and then add in what I think likely will be a standard power package (not standard on any version of the current car), I think we will see the base price of the next Corolla rise AT LEAST $1300-1500, and that is before you consider that most revised models rise by $500 or so anyway. I think it quite likely we will see base prices in each trim rise about $2000 for the next car, but I also think that at the same time we will see the car become much less of a "stripper" in its base form, a little closer to the Honda approach of making most common desirable amenities and safety gear standard across the board.

Now I think we could still see a CE without the power package, and whoever said above that the Corolla CE is a rental fleet-only model should come check out dealerships in my area - plenty of CEs for retail sale at every lot. I hope they make the ABS and side airbags standard for all Corollas, but given that they are contemplating putting in standard VSC for '09, I think we could see optional side airbags in all but the top-line trim, as a measure to keep price from getting too high.

I am torn - on the one hand, the current Corolla is a heck of a deal given real-world prices hovering around $15K pretty well-equipped. OTOH, I wouldn't mind seeing them turn the Corolla into a mini-Camry with better gas mileage, with the price hike that would entail, given that the Yaris is a pretty good stand-in for Toyota's new low price leader. To accomplish the mini-Camry feat, it will need better NVH isolation, a less raspy engine sound, and a much better standard equipment list. And OF COURSE, a 5-speed auto instead of the current 4-speed. (And a 6-speed manual, please please Toyota?!)

kdhspyder · December 2006

As noted above most redo's on the models come in at the same price - initially - but with more equipment and no rebates.

When gas was going up in the summer Toyota sold out of Corolla's for a while and dropped the $500 rebate for about 4 months. Now as this model gets even older the $500 rebate is back. When the new model comes out in 14 mo's or so it will be without the rebate but more equipment ( ABS + all the airbags ). I'll guesstimate now that the pricing is very very similar on an MSRP basis

Standard Equipment: ABS, 6/7 airbags, Aux input, Cr Ctrl, Pwr W/L/M, std sound system.
$16200 CE AT - One basic standard trim
.... EJ w/BT add ~ $1000
.... VS/Trac add ~ $650
$17900 LE AT ( AW, 6 Disc w/440 wt JBL & BT + VSC/Trac )
.... NV add ~ $1200
.... LA add ~ $1100
.... SR add ~ $900
$18700 S AT - Same as the LE but with the sport package
.... same options

Deduct $800 for 5 MT.
CVT? No idea here.

allcarsrcool · December 2006

I was thinking the same thing, for a second i actually thought it was the camry, i just wish they had done something futuristic witht eh tail lamps or at least made them LED like a lot of new models(LandCruiser, Prius, Highlander hybrid, Rav4, & 4runner)

dudleyr · December 2006

There is no chance of Toyota raising the price of the Corolla more than $500 for the base model.

Also keep in mind that the wholesale price of any extras is much less than retail, and volume production will bring that down even more.

Car makers are constantly bring in highly improved and more fully featured new models and are barely raising the price.

Now Toyota may raise the price a few hunded each year during the life of the new model and wind up with a $1,000 or more increase, but it will not happen at the introduction.

They will also most likely keep VSC as an option as it is on the Camry.

backy · December 2006

Toyota has said stability control would be a standard feature across all its models by 2009.

http://www.sci-tech-today.com/story.xhtml?story_id=13200C6W8XLO

nippononly · December 2006

I'll see your prices and raise you $800. ;-)

CE, $17K base, with the LE at $18,700 and the S at $19,5. I bet that's about where they come in. They will be adding a lot of standard equipment to a car that is currently way behind the market in base form.

Subtract $800 for 5MT, as you say.

All the Corollas come with A/C standard now, which I assume will continue. So with the CE at $17K, they would still come in lower than the Civic LX, which is the lowest Civic in the line to come with A/C.

And then of course there is no guarantee they will continue the CE-LE-S format. I for one don't particularly like the current set-up - it makes no sense. The LE and S are both upmarket trims, neither better than the other, and both missing key ingredients I would expect from the upmarket trims. There is no logical progression.

I would REALLY like to see them do with the next Corolla S what they did with the new Camry SE this year - actually make it a sport model, with larger rims and tires standard, and sportier suspension. I am hopeful they will do that.

Then they really should give the LE a proper complement of standard equipment - no more having to add a package to get power windows or whatever.

kdhspyder · December 2006

I'll see your prices and raise you $800.

Sounds like a Full Tilt promotion..

In all Toyota's lines the upper trim of the lower model overlaps in price with the lower trim of the upper model... whew!! If the Yaris loaded up is around $16500 then the CE needs to be in this range also.

As backy pointed out though VSC will be part of all the vehicles so it might be at $17000 but with VSC/Trac included not as an option ( a forced option ).

raychuang00 · December 2006

My guess is that even the recent launched European-market Corolla sedan is still too conservatively styled to compete against the Honda Civic and Mazda3.

This tells me that Toyota is planning RADICALLY-styled Corolla sedan and five-door wagon models, something unique for the North American market (USA, Canada and possibly Mexico).

jaxs1 · December 2006

It depends on what their definition of by 2009 means.
They may mean newly redesigned models introduced from 2009 on.
They may also might mean by the end of calendar year 2009 (meaning 2010 model year cars).

backy · December 2006

Either way, looks like the Corolla (and Yaris) will be getting standard VSC (and with it ABS) within 3 years.

jaxs1 · December 2006

No it does not mean that.
By the first definition, they would not have standard VSC until the next redesigns since both the Corolla and Yaris would have been introduced prior to 2009.

backy · December 2006

I really don't think they meant models redesigned from 2009 on. That would put it out to 2014 or 2015 for some models. I don't have great trust in marketing, but I don't think Toyota's spokespeople would be that misleading.

kdhspyder · December 2006

Since it will be mandated by 2012 I'm with you in guessing if not immediately at launch in 2009 then very soon thereafter.

kdhspyder · December 2006

The sedan has already been seen by some owners at the last dealer's meeting. It's done already and looks very very much like what is being debuted in Europe. There might be, hopefully something as dramatic as the Auris, but somehow I don't think so. Unless they expect new huge things from the Corolla it's still - an econobox...basic A to B transporation.

I'd love to see a $21000 loaded up one with Navi, top quality leather, 440 wt JBL & BT looking like the European version but it would not be a big seller IMO. As nice as it might be buyers would still opt for the larger quieter more basic CE/LE Camry.

jaxs1 · December 2006

A loaded Civic with nav costs more than a basic Accord. A loaded Sentra with everything costs more than a basic Altima.
It wouldn't have "top quality" leather since even the Camry does not, but they could sell small numbers of loaded Corollas.
Honda does not sell huge quantities of Civic Sis with Nav at $22K, but they sell some anyway.

kdhspyder · December 2006

That's a really good marketing question. Does Toyota go for some glamor and put out a real top of the line Corolla that sells in small numbers at $21/$22K. Or do they stay the course and just go for volume and middle of the road amenities?

I hope that they try both and at least offer a top of the line trim. I'm guessing though that like the XRS it won't be ordered very often by the public and Toyota will let it die off. No orders, no volume, no production.

What does the N American buyer who's ready to spend $20000 want in a vehicle? A base Camry or Accord? or a loaded up Corolla or Civic? Where's the volume and the most money to be made?

sicwoo · December 2006

First off, I want the corolla. My reasons for choosing a loaded corolla over a camry are simple. I'd rather save gas, have a smaller car, and have a more luxorious car rather than having a basic larger car. I don't find a use to having a larger car if I don't need it. The only thing putting me off of corolla is because its such an "econobox" all these years and even tho the basic camry isn't much better, I personally feel its more value than getting a loaded up LE corolla which only gives features that I don't really need/want ie moonroof/sunroof, "optitron guages", and the other bits. I don't understand why Toyota wouldn't want to allow people to option up a corolla. If people want this car with those features, people would be willing to pay up for those options. I don't see, selling a corolla with options hurting sales. Can someone explain to me what reasons toyota would have to not sell nav,backup camra, etc.

sonatabean · December 2006

Good heavens - nav, back-up cam, etc?

And I had people telling me to stuff it when all I wanted was leather Corolla seats to cosset my tired bum!

Seriously, though - you have a point. It would be nice to have a "premium" version of the Corolla that offers luxury features (auto climate control, leather seats, better sound insulation) for those of us in the "we like small cars" consumer segment.

Add that some folks who like the luxury features are also cost-conscious (same folks who buy loaded Jetta diesels or, if infused with cash, Audi A4 1.8Ts or Volvo S40s) and a "Everyman's" Corolla with some creature comforts makes sense.

But, then, what the heck do I know?!

fastandstyle · December 2006

Hello Kdhspyder!!!!

Im agree with your point of view, I think 2008 US corolla design will be a small Lexus IS 350. loaded, powerfull, and stylish... to be ahead of competition.... toys cars like mazda 3 and civic.....

sonatabean · December 2006

XU - I AM a science geek (biomed).

fastandstyle · December 2006

Merry Critsmas And hoping all of you can buy a I new Corolla 2008 Bran new, you deserve, because your loyalty and interest to preserve the corolla spirit alive. I hope Corolla CEO, check this forums and send all of you a brand new corolla 2008, for free!!!! House cortesy.... next year. thats my best wishes to all of you

rorr · December 2006

Somebody's been dipping into the eggnog again...... :surprise:

2009 Toyota Corolla

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