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Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions

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Comments

  • rgswrgsw Posts: 333
    Thanks again. I thot it was up there somewhere but could not focus on it. That will help me a lot in the future.
  • nexuslexusnexuslexus Posts: 147
    I certainly hope that my (and the boards) previous information was right.

    I will be flying out to Chicago soon to drive the LS460 and see the LS600.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,269
    Sure.
    Glad to help!
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    New York would sell 200 by itself in the first 6 months!

    In the "Midwest Region", Lexus doesn't play as well as it does in large, coastal cities like LA, Miami, and New York.

    Don't see many Toledo dealers getting more than one. Don't see many Toledo Lexus dealers!

    The US should see 2-3k in the first year, than adjust according to demand after that.

    Expect price somewhere around the S550 prices, $85k to $105k loaded.

    DrFill
  • nexuslexusnexuslexus Posts: 147
    Actually Chicago and Detroit are very large Lexus Markets. From what I have heard, the detroit market is one of the largest in the country, which, although on the surface is quite surprising (Detroit is a heavy American car area), it is not surprising in that Detroit has a high concentration of wealthy people.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,287
    Thank you much for the information you have been providing and please keep us posted on what you experience and see with the LS460/LS600hL.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I've heard Dallas is a big Lexus market as well. Las Vegas seems to be pretty good also, just from my observation. In the introductory years, Reno didn't have a Lexus dealer for quite a while. I'm sure they have one now, but you used to have to go to Vegas or Sacramento for Lexus then.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    FWIW, my dealer left me a voice mail last week claiming he has pricing for the new LS460. According to him, the SWB will be in the low 70s and the LWB could climb all the way to the mid-80s. I have not returned his call cos I figure he must be smokin' som'thing.... How can Lexus go from $55K to $70K in one fell swoop ? Not gonna happen, IMO.

    I remain inclined to believe the starting price in the low-60s for the SWB, and the LWB in the low-70s...

    The cars will arrive dealer showrooms Oct 21, or thereabouts. Expect confirmed price within 1 week of release.... Meaning: we gotta wait another 6 weeks before we can all be certain of the correct price on these cars.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,287
    As great as the LS460 and LS600hL will be, if the pricing is this high, it will not work out very well at all for Lexus. It cannot be true. I'm with you. These people are totally clueless about these things.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Posts: 1,597
    ... my dealer left me a voice mail last week claiming he has pricing for the new LS460. According to him, the SWB will be in the low 70s and the LWB could climb all the way to the mid-80s.....

    I wonder if some of the price elevations people are hearing about reflect a "market value" increase that some dealers are tacking on to new scarce or high demand models. Has your dealer been one of these kind of dealers?
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,287
    My dealer has definitely NOT been one of these.
  • Hello Oac

    1. The difference b/w SWB and LWB will not be more than $5K.
    Thats the case with A8, 7-series and XJ. That means low to mid 60s for SWB and high 60s to low 70s for LWB.

    2. A jump from 57K to 70K as base price for LS is not probable. No manufacturer including such imperious brands like Ferrari, Porsche, mercedes raise their prices by more than 10-15% on a new edition.

    3. This means $57K X 1.15 = ~65K for SWB and $69K for LWB. Although I wish LS matches Audi A8 at least over next 2-3 years by progressively raising base pricing. Their sales will go down a notch, but the long term benefits of head-to-head pricing are indisputable and will raise Lexus' stature.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Steve:

    Welcome back ! Please stay and don't disappear OK... I like your posts and you enrich this board by many of your informed posts....

    I agree 100% with you. Carnaught is also probably right in that the price my dealer left for me has to include "uplifts" by the dealer... Or maybe he's trying to get me thinking in that range early... Regardless, I think the SWB will be in the mid-60s for a lightly loaded model - Base + ML/Nav (no frills). If you want to load it all up, it may be near or around $70K. The LWB should easily top $70K, and should move to the high 70s tops.

    600hL should top at the mid-90 range (all features on the LS460 LWB + LED beams, leather-stitched dash, V10, HSD). Certainly NOT going to be anywhere close to $100K, IMO... I think Lexus will sell tons of the 600hL if that car can be had at the mid-80 range... Maybe Lexus wants exclusivity (high price) or market share (low price). We'll see which direction the LS Series takes. October will be here soon enough.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    You save my breath very nicely! :D

    The LWB should START at $70k.

    The 600hL should be $1 less than the S550! If they sell more than 2500 units, I'll consider it a success. :shades:

    DrFill
  • sidgriggssidgriggs Posts: 122
    Yesterday, I called Lexus 800 number and was told the introduction date for LS460 will be sometime in October, but an exact day has not been set. Can't wait to see them!
    Has anyone been to the docks in Calif to see if they are arriving yet? Before the 04's intro date they were stockpiled at the docks in Long Beach, then our allotment was put on rail to my part of the country (DFW).
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,287
    My dealer informed me today that they think the basic LS460 (SWB) will start out in the mid 60s K. A starting point in the 70s K would be very much out of line.
  • nexuslexusnexuslexus Posts: 147
    I had forgotten to bring this up:

    The Midwest manager I had spoken with had said something about the ls600hl having mechanical AWD vs. electronic AWD, and he said this is a first for Lexus.

    Does anybody else know what type of AWD are on the other Lexus models (the RX330/400h AWD, the IS250/GS300 AWD, LX/GX470 AWD)
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Like an old Jeep? That's sounds like a turn off. Can't be....
  • nexuslexusnexuslexus Posts: 147
    The quattro system on Audis is mechanical... which is supposedly better, so I don't really think it would be a turn off. Then again, I don't really know what they mean mechanical vs. electronic.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I don't either - but this I know. If it's on an Audi, it's not "maintenance free". It may work splendidly, when it works. I guess somebody here needs to enlighten us as to how a mechanical AWD system works. I assume, it maintains ratios of power to all wheels, all the time. Without an electronic brain component, how can it redistribute power by need? :confuse:
  • nexuslexusnexuslexus Posts: 147
    The real reason i am concerned (if you can call it that) is that this "new" system may hinder reliability. I certainly wouldn't want to see Lexus taking chances with the reliability of their flagship, but I was already burned by another first year Toyota product (the Sienna in 2004) which was significantly less reliable its first year. Normally Lexus cars are just as reliable in their first model year as in later model years, and I hope that remains the case with the Ls600hl.
  • atlas7atlas7 Posts: 126
    Who cares about stature? I will take a lower priced Lexus any day...don't raise those prices for the sake of "stature", geez.
  • As I have been saying earlier, LS 460 and LS 460L should be priced head-to-head with Audi A8 at least. The sales will fall a notch but the revenues will remain stable or increase slightly.

    In other words as of today

    1. LS 460 = $65-67K at least
    2. LS 460L = $70-72K at least

    Lexus will have to discard cut-rate pricing in a gradual way so that it can compete with germans on an equal footing globally. It should gradually raise the pricing to compete with 7-series over next 4-5 years and keep the technological edge.

    Keeping the price down may work for value models like the Toyotas but in Luxury arena we need premium pricing.

    If a great product is value-priced compared to its competitors it casts a negative psychological influence on prospective customers in well developed markets like US, Europe and Japan.

    Please remember that the original aim of Lexus LS to provide value back in 1990 was to gain market share through cut-rate pricing and give the customers a taste of Lexus. The value pricing or cut-rate pricing in itself was not the end goal. it was a starting point at least in my opinion.

    Now, after 17 years if LS continues to be offered at 21% discount compared to Audi A8 and 45% discount compared to S550 then it will generate a negative subliminal effect on prospective buyers.

    The goal now should be to establish LS as a global flagship competitor to S-class. And premium pricing at least matching Audi A8 and then gradually raising it to 7-series is the way to go.

    I do understand your point that Lexus should offer you the car loaded with value, but I am afraid it will be bad for Lexus brand as a whole.

    Steve
  • I just noticed that on googling Lexus LS and other german brands, the results from wikipedia are highly ranked.

    Upon visiting these wikipedia webpages, I noticed how well written are the articles on german cars like BMW 7-series and S-class as well as Porsche.

    On the other hand articles on lexus LS etc are very poorly written.

    It seems that the PR departments of european brands are very active and alert, whereas the PR department of Lexus and Lexus enthusiasts are oblivious to the urgent need of revamping these articles on wikipedia.

    Wikipedia is here to stay and is getting ever more prominent day by day.
  • How a Luxury brand should evolve its pricing strategy:

    *1. Stage1 : Offer more for Less. example, LS 400 in 1990.
    *2. Stage2: Offer more for same: this is where lexus should be.

    *3. Stage3: offer Same for Same: example Audi A8 and BMW 7-series are very close in pricing offering similar contents at similar pricing. Audi is slightly less expensive because of less horsepower and less gadgets.

    * Stage 4: Offer same for more: This is where S-class is.
    It offers similar horsepower, gadgets, comfort, prestige, for a lot more money because it is well established. More so than BMW and Audi.

    Lexus should evolve from stage 1 to stage 2 now and price its products head-to head with Audi A8 at least.
  • atlas7atlas7 Posts: 126
    Disagree completely. Lexus can build a better car for less because their labor rates are less than the Germans, who have extremely high labor costs. Lexus value is and always will be that they build a car as good or better than the higher priced competition. Lexus will certainly increase prices as their cars get more Luxo and Power. But to price them the same as the Germans for the sake of prestige is ill advised. You keep referring to Audi? Who the heck cares about Audi, not Lexus, that's for sure. Let the other guys worry about Lexus, not vice versa.
  • Your argument is based on costs whereas I am talking about building and evolving a brand for the future. These are two separate issues.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,687
    Steve,

    MSRP pricing is all about what is standard on the car. An LS 430 ultra at $72K is very similar to a loaded SWB A8 already. Lexus is entering a broad test pricing phase right now - when you think about it - and they are not about to leave any customers at the altar. So you'll see prices range from $65-67K for a moderately equipped SWB LS to around or just over $100K for the limo edition LS600HL.

    I again called my dealer today and the pricing I just put up there was his estimate as there is nothing official from Lexus yet but there are some guidelines - as he put it. The news that is scaring me is the demand for the hybrid and what's more based on the discussions I had with him is that people are depositing the full blown limo edition of the 600HL, which they are telling people will run at $100-105K. So Lexus doesn't need to build stature by raising prices thru the roof. They can have their cake and eat it too with greater model variability, thereby keeping the $65K customer and attracting the $100K customer with the same model platform. That is really the second stage of stature anyway. Pricing follows and the tiered availability of models brings the higher prices. As for MSRP - compare features for price - not just price. An LS460 won't debut at $70K simply because it lacks the standard features of a $70K Audi and the others you are comparing it to. But a comparably equipped LS460 will surpass the A8 and you'll see plenty of $80K+ LS sales in LWB platform and of course in the even longer wheel based LS600HL. Then of course you have the LF-A coming and in 2009 you'll have a $150-170K super Lexus with a V12 hybrid. The 600HL when coupled with those two cars is plenty of stature and it's all coming to a theatre near you shortly.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Posts: 2,287
    Len,

    It is so great to have you back posting again. You had every right to get upset at some of those "ignoramuses". I also saw what one of the participants called the Lexus fans. That behavior is so childish that he should have been banned from these forums.

    Getting to the subject at hand, do you have any idea about what sort of AWD the LS600hL will have (electrical or mechanical)? Also, could you explain the peculiarities of both to those of us that do not know the fine details? I would think that the LS600hL will be equipped with the most sophisticated features no matter what.
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