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Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions

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Comments

  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    You know the Lexus target in 2001 was 25,000 sales and they got 36,000. They are always conservative with their estimates of LS sales. I see them selling 40,000+ with this car.
  • techman41973techman41973 Member Posts: 83
    I read about the LWB option of a dedicated rear climate control system. Why is this needed when there are already individual controls for rear passengers standard?
    Seems like a waste of money and space, when it is stated that it eats 6 cubic feet of trunk space.
    It would seem that someone who goes for such an option would not be happy with a honda civic sized trunk (12 cubic feet)
  • baller4ever85baller4ever85 Member Posts: 14
    How much do you think a LS460 L with everything but the Executive Pack, cost? I also wanted to know when the Pre-Crash safety system was going to be available in the US(if at all).

    BTW, here is a neat vid & review of the LS460.
    http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/clips/lexus-self-parking-car-video-and-review-196551.- - php
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    I'm not surprised Lexus came out with it first. I am surprised it works so well..... :surprise:
  • techman41973techman41973 Member Posts: 83
    I think its a neat feature. But according to Gizmondo
    self parking requires a spot with 6.5 ft. more than the length of the car. A spot with this much space seems quite easy to park yourself. Perhaps its a matter of perception. Now a real trick would be those tight San Franscisco spots that often have less than 2ft.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    That's only 3 feet in front and back. Not bad precision from how I see it....
  • designmandesignman Member Posts: 2,129
    The feature seems nice, but the car in the video looks like it had about 90 feet of parking space. I'm wondering what happens when the space is compromised and the tolerance is exceeded. Also, what determines if the feature is useable or not when approaching the limit? Is it failsafe or do you wind up in some sort of a precarious situation? Can’t wait to see the geniuses in sales demonstrate this.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    No doubt, it'll be somewhat imperfect, as new as it is, but if we can guide missiles, I'm sure there's a way to park a car. Probably just too expensive now.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    A news mag is claiming the LS600h and its LWB version will come with 444HP and have almost 30mpg combined fuel efficiency. Production version unveiled September 28 in Paris.

    http://www.carkeys.co.uk/news/2006/august/28/11161.asp
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    This would be pretty incredible if true. Can you imagine this kind of a vehicle getting about 30 mpg combined? Wow!!

    Do they mean 12cm longer than the base LS460 or is it 12cm longer than the LS460L?
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Not to be outdone by the Japanese self-parking at 2.5 MPH Lexus LS, the German car company Volkswagen has unveiled a car that drives itself, up to 150 MPH!

    link title

    Oh, the joy of driving!

    :)

    TagMan
  • ctsangctsang Member Posts: 237
    Where can we buy them? Wait till my chauffeurs find out about this.
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    Lexus marketing indicated that the LS600h needed AWD to handle the power generated by the engine + electric motors.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    TagMan:

    I do respect your postings, but I am at a loss what the point of this is... Does it suggest that the most compelling reason for the LS460 is the self-park, while Euros are more focused on driving ?

    Maybe you should read Motor Trend's first drive where they turned OFF the stability control and had such a blast driving the car. Or where they state that the new LS460 manages luxury, features, handling and performance quite nicely... And you should look for the new LS to retain its sales crown in the US quite easily ?

    We are free to focus on whatever it is we want to. However, for what the new LS460/L brings to the table, its a formidable car for its competition. The demographics of these cars could not care for how fast it gets to 60, or how flat it corners... Its responsive handling, luxury and features, and the feeling of execution, ALL AT THE RIGHT PRICE. If Lexus can deliver these, they'd be very successful, and I don't see them screwing things up, or do you ?
  • rennyboschrennybosch Member Posts: 329
    I would think any hybrid car would have AWD because a good deal of the efficiency/economy of it comes from recovering the energy when braking by converting the motors into generators and charging the batteries. If it weren't AWD you'd have to use conventional braking on the front wheels and convert a lot more energy into heat instead of electricity.
  • 2001gs4302001gs430 Member Posts: 767
    So this is a win, win and win setup :)
    By the way, the new LS styling is good that I think my wife WILL let me buy one of them. Hopefully, I can get one of those LS600h. :D
  • pearlpearl Member Posts: 336
    as far as I have heard, the LS460 LWB and LS600H share the same wheelbase which is 4 point something inches (i.e. 12cm) longer than the SWB model.
  • stevekilburnstevekilburn Member Posts: 359
    Its actually 430 hp and combined fuel efficiency will be

    29.7/1.201 = 25 mpg combined. An improvement of 13% over LS 460. Not bad, since there is a huge increase in horsepower.

    What I am curious about is the battery. Will it be Li or the old Ni-H+ ?
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    please post a link to these numbers
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    The article says it gets a "combined fuel economy of 29.7 mpg and combined power output of 444 bhp".
  • feverhartfeverhart Member Posts: 144
    If those in the article are indeed English units, go to
    http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert/volume for conversion to US gallons
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    What I am curious about is the battery. Will it be Li or the old Ni-H+ ?

    I think its bad enough getting broiled knees from a Li powered laptop. :P
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    oac - the point was only to indicate just how much technology is stepping in and mediating . . . even controlling . . . our driving (including parking, of course) experience.

    How far does it go? Obviously, as far as the car driving itself!

    I thought it was interesting.

    I was not making a statement regarding the LS460's merits or lack thereof. If you want my opinions of the upcoming LS models, feel free to ask me and I will be glad to tell you directly, so you don't have to guess.

    Anyway, like I said, I thought it was interesting to see a car drive itself.

    TagMan
  • rgswrgsw Member Posts: 333
    Not much new in the article. Most observations I'd read somewhere else with one exception. They indicated that they experienced a stopping distance of 209 feet from 70 MPH. They commented that their experience with the LS430 stopping from 70 was 170 feet. I believe they consider 170 feet in the ball park or normal. Kinda surprising, don't know if that is representative sample.
  • deweydewey Member Posts: 5,251
    The LS460 cabin is almost tomb-like.

    Refer to the linked LS460 review below:

    The Silence of a Luxurious Tomb

    image
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    Just wandering around the net and seeing/reading reactions to the new LS460 has been certainly "interesting". There is so much focus on the small stuff by some, while others focus on the big stuff. Taken together, the car delivers on its promises, and its clientele will be very happy indeed. For those with "[non-permissible content removed], Moan & Whine" or "More Bitching" syndromes, the LS series (460/L/600L) are here to cure all those ills. Maybe the standard 19-speaker ML, the body-sensing temp control, the LED beams, the rear executive seating, or the dual-mode CVT 8-speed/444hp of the 600hL would bring to mind the level of class and distinction that cars like Maybach, Bentley or RR conjures. I suspect even an RR/Bentley/Maybach buyer will pause to examine what the 600hL brings to the table. For a price in the mid-90s (projected), that car will be one heck of a bargain.

    Lexus wins again.... And this is with prospect of a super-secret super sedan also in the works ! Allow me to put a shameless plug for the HPX which rumors suggest should debut mid-2007. Yipeee ! That car-based truck should give the FX a run for its money. I'd really like to see the HPX here in the US.

    Lexus if you make it, we'll buy it !!!!
  • garyh1garyh1 Member Posts: 394
    Thanks for the welcome back, oac.

    For you, Gary, you should opt for the LWB which gives you the "Sport Package", otherwise called the "Grand Touring Package" - bigger brakes & pads, 19" wheels, and upgraded air suspension made stiffer. It would set you back probably around $75K (list) for those goodies, IMO, which will be additional to all the goodies you already had on the SWB. And pls take note: you can turn OFF the electronic stability nanny... goodie...

    I just can't see wanting an even bigger car than the current LS. For my purposes, the back seat is as roomy as I need it. But you're right, I would like the features of the Sport/Grand Touring Package as you described it. Anyone know if we will be able to get those on SWB?

    BTW, just came back from taking my daughter off to Emory. Parked between a new silver S550 and a previous model (S500)in the lot of the Ritz Carlton, and had the opportunity to compare them. I have to say, I definitely like the old model much more.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    Anyone know if we will be able to get those on SWB?

    Unfortunately, as the current packaging stands, this option is NOT available for the SWB trim :mad: But, a consolation is that the MY 2008 releases will include AWD on the 460, and maybe Lexus will permit the sport trim by then as well...
  • nexuslexusnexuslexus Member Posts: 147
    It will be released mid year 2008? Will the 2009 LS600hl also be released mid year 2008?
  • garyh1garyh1 Member Posts: 394
    But, a consolation is that the MY 2008 releases will include AWD on the 460, and maybe Lexus will permit the sport trim by then as well...

    That's what I thought. If I had to guess now, I would say my next car will be an '09 AWD SWB LS460, with Sport/Touring package if available. By that time my current LS will be 4 years old, and prices on the AWD SWB model should stabilize - at about $85K if Steve is right! ;)
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Sure the LS has always been a quiet car, but there is too much spin surrounding the "quiet" of the new LS460, IMO. Why do I say that?

    How about the fact that the Lexus Chief engineer Satoru Maruyamano says "the sound levels in the new car are about the same as before" . . .

    So . . . it turns out that there isn't really any improvement in "quiet" according to Lexus' own chief engineer, but, as he explains, they have focused on changing the characteristics of some of the sounds, such as the ever-popular sound of the door when it closes.

    Again, this is not to infer that the sound isn't respectfully quiet in the new LS, but all the hype has been that it is going to be some sort of super-quiet breakthrough . . . and in REALITY . . . the chief engineer himself says it is about the same as before.

    Bottom line . . . no marked difference than before . . . at least according to Lexus, and not according to the tomb raider.

    TagMan
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Tagman - I don't remember reading that Lexus was putting a spin on quietness. The chief engineer would be towing the party line if a new level of quietness was the name of the game. They've been knocked for making the car so quiet to begin with so why go even quieter?
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    Again, this is not to infer that the sound isn't respectfully quiet in the new LS, but all the hype has been that it is going to be some sort of super-quiet breakthrough . . . and in REALITY . . . the chief engineer himself says it is about the same as before.

    So who exactly was "hyping" a super quiet LS460 ? Methinks this is much ado about nothing from some critics looking for something to complain/gloat about. A luxury car should be quiet, that goes without saying... so implying the LS460 is as quiet as the LS430 says nothing. Both are quiet. Which is quieter between an LS and its competitors ? That is what counts, not between two versions of LS's...

    I think the comments been made here and those been made elsewhere needs to be taken together to form the balance of these opinions. Titling the post as "Tomb raider" within the LS forum is plainly ridiculous.... The S, 7 and even A8 are all super quiet, so why bash the LS for its level of quietness if not to find faults regardless ? This double-speak must end sometime, cos its reeks of bias...
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    lj - Of course I could be mistaken here, but I've been under the impression that the press release claimed new levels of quietness, and that there is a lot of focus on this . . . and now we have the "tomb", etc.

    But, I do know and have acknowledeged that the car does deserve credit for its quiet nature, regardless. I am not in any way attempting to cheat the vehicle of credit that it rightly derserves.

    My contention is that any reports that infer it is much quieter than the previous model are contrary to Lexus' own chief engineer's statement . . . that's all.

    As the dust settles, I'm looking for a "balanced" perspective on this new LS . . . and a balance beam needs two sides to function properly.

    Hope that clarifies.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Or is the S, 7 or A8 not quiet cars as well? So why the focus on the LS's "quiet"-ness ???

    oac - c,mon now . . . the reason is the same as to focus on ALL attributes of the '07 LS. . . we are dealing with a NEW model here, and it will be compared to its predecessor as well as the competition . . . that is only natural.

    TM
  • nexuslexusnexuslexus Member Posts: 147
    The lexus press releases, at least the latest one, say nothing about the level of quietness on the new LS.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    ...the reason is the same as to focus on ALL attributes of the '07 LS. . . we are dealing with a NEW model here, and it will be compared to its predecessor as well as the competition . . . that is only natural.

    Well then compare it to the competition and give those features equal coverage in the comparisons. Is the S550 quiet ? Is the 750i quiet ? These are NEW models too... Why not spend as much time on these cars as well ? There are far more great things about this new LS460 than just being quiet ? Surely....

    And just in case you'd like MORE features in this new model, here are a series of videos to watch...

    http://www.nihoncarandbike.com/news-330-.html
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Well then compare it to the competition and give those features equal coverage.

    Since you don't visit the HELM forum, where we CAN compare and discuss the LS as it contrasts to these other vehicles, what do you expect? According to one of the HOST's recent posts, that is the best place to do that, not here.

    I recently posted that there are more important features than a "tomb with 19 speakers and self-parking" on the HELM forum, but how would you know?

    There are far more great things about this new LS460 than just being quiet ?

    True, and that's why I didn't write the "tomb" article or post the reference to it above in number 2521.

    TagMan
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    Correct. We're not doing comparisons in this discussion. That's what HELM is for. If you choose not to visit that discussion, I can't help you! This isn't the alternate location for HELM comparisons... sorry.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    The Toyota newsroom announcement back in the Spring DID mention the evolution of the quietness of the LS.

    I should mention here, however, that the BIGGER picture regarding "quietness" is reserved for the LS600hL, which DOES have claims by Toyota/Lexus to be amazingly quiet, possibly beyond anything else out there to date.

    Again, this is why I have posted (on the HELM forum) that the LS600hL is the only LS to truly spark my interest. It will be an exclusive vehicle that will set some new standards, IMO.

    The LS600hL is not to be confused with the standard LS460, by any means. The LS600hL will be a different (and superior) animal!

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Correct. We're not doing comparisons in this discussion. That's what HELM is for.

    kirstie - thanks for the support! :D

    TM
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    Since you don't visit the HELM forum, where we CAN compare and discuss the LS as it contrasts to these other vehicles, what do you expect? According to one of the HOST's recent posts, that is the best place to do that, not here.

    Oh, I do read posts on HELM, I just don't post there. BTW, the "tomb" post is the second in the last day or so... One from Dewey and another from you, so what gives ?

    I recently posted that there are more important features than a "tomb with 19 speakers and self-parking" on the HELM forum, but how would you know?

    Oh Yes, I do know... but you are yet to post those "more important features" about the new LS460 anywhere to my knowledge... So far, its been all focused on those things perceived negative... altho' I cannot imagine a "quiet" car being a negative thing... :confuse:
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I've posted plenty of favorable remarks, for the most part, as you should have read, and I am reserving my moderate position, because it is still a bit early in the game.

    In fact, I clearly neutralized the "grabby" brakes issue that sparked yesterday, which you should have also noticed.

    If you want to discuss these things however, THAT is the place to do so . . . and your HOST agrees. I think you could easily enough put down your pride a little, and join me over there sometime. I would like that, and you would be most welcomed, as would be Len.

    :D

    TagMan
  • dc661dc661 Member Posts: 71
    Some cool shots with the ASC turned off. I've never seen an LS do this!
    image

    image
  • anthonypanthonyp Member Posts: 1,860
    As I have previously guessed, I think Lexus will offer a well equipped car under seventy thousand dollars...I know when I last purchased the ls I got it fully loaded--ultra- and then the dealer discounted the price by four or five thousand....In my mind if a manufacturer can produce and make a good profit there is no reason to then gouge the buyer, therefore because Mercedes or others charge a premium price it should make no difference to Lexus...That has been their strategy in the past and there is no reason for them to change a winning formula..Tony
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    We are not here to talk about other posters - please stick to the new LS.
  • excelsior88excelsior88 Member Posts: 71
    The Motor Trend shots look sweet but I wonder what the ride inside is like with that kind of driving!

    And as for level of quiet, that has been an LS standard since day 1. The New LS 460 seems to maintain the same level of quiet as the LS 430, which was already the best on the road. The level of refinement in soundproofing has been honed to such a level that it's no longer newsworthy to mention--it's best in class. That the LS 600h L, a hybrid, adds to that is worth mentioning because evidently you need to go electric to improve the quiet level even further.

    I must say a better description I've heard of the LS quiet is bank or vault-like quiet. Even better, concert hall or recording studio quiet--in a world where the noise level is ever-increasing (I read a few years ago now the average is less than 2 minutes of uninterrupted time), the LS is very relaxing indeed.
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
  • excelsior88excelsior88 Member Posts: 71
    Wow, I didn't know that. From the press conference, it made it sound like the 'eerie silence' with 'whirrs' and 'clicks' was a result of the electric system. And the other hybrids at low mph do sound quieter until you speed up and the gas engine kicks in.

    Now what's to prevent Lexus engineers from adding the same sound-deadening improvements into the LS 460?
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Forgive me, as my reply was not totally accurate, so in the interest of accuracy I deleted it.

    The accurate information is here AS FOLLOWS:

    The Lexus Hybrid Drive offers inherent noise, vibration and harshness (NVH) ADVANTAGES (not increases) over the ICE counterparts . . . and this is where the vehicle will achieve its higher level of "quiet" when compared to the LS460.

    In fact, it is so quiet, that the LS600hL required extensive re-engineering of accessory motors and switches, and that is where the re-engineering comes in that I was referring to earlier. That's the interesting part, IMO.

    Lexus is suggesting that the LS600hL may be the quietest automobile EVER built.

    Sorry for the confusion, but this information I have just posted is correct.

    :D

    TagMan
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