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Comments
Anyway, I am not trying to discredit the 8-speed transmission per se, but my intuition tells me to question it. I suspect it of being frivolous. The desire to stand out, to develop unique marketing benefits is just too compelling among all auto manufacturers, especially with luxury cars, and it is quite easy to realize how the title of this post is serious sizzle in the steak, apt to get luscious attention, marketing mileage.
Well put... Its more of a me-2 thing, I suspect. But hey, if you are trying to prove a point, and put yourself over the competition, unique differentiation and a marketing sizzle of something no one else claims to have put you in a class ahead. Getting ahead is the name of the game. Does this mean we will soon see a 10-speed tranny ? Who knows
I don't know but as this endeavor approaches infinity we arrive at the CVT... and this is already here.
;-)
Not much of a personal attack, IMO. I do understand, and granted, he could have used better words that just addressed the data and not your degree of understanding torque.
But if that is a demonstration of your level of sensitivity, then you are probably better off to stay away, as you will ultimately just find yourself reacting the same way again from some future similar style of posting.
It's not for me to judge you, oac. Draw the line for yourself wherever you want to. It's just my opinion that sometimes mountains are made out of mole hills, as the saying goes.
I, and I'll bet the others as well, were much more interested in the torque data itself, and to resolve which one of your interpretations of the data was more in line with the facts. Obviously one of you may be closer to the mark than the other. A direct exchange of ideas would have brought us all closer to understanding the data better, but instead we all lost out.
Syswei obviously saw the value in your cool post, and he did a kind thing to share it on the HELM board where it could be tossed around for further interpretation.
Express yourself, and stick to your guns when you are sure of yourself, and back down when necessary. It's all part of the process, IMO. When you think about it, nothing can get too personal that isn't taken too personal.
I hope you get my point . . . with all due respect, I might add.
I'm still questioning all that LS460 torque data, and would like some clarity.
TagMan
Best I can do so far is this:
On January 10th, 2006 an official Mercedes press release announced that the MSRP would be $85,400, and indicated the official release date (to arrive at the dealers) as the week of February 7th.
Here's a link - check the next to last paragraph for my reference.
http://www.mbusa.com/cda/aboutus/jsp/index.jsp?page=news
Hope that helps.
TagMan
And . . . are the distribution schedules exactly the same coast-to-coast?
Certainly, BEFORE these cars arrive, there will be advance notice to the dealerships, at a minimum.
I would expect a press release very soon, or doesn't Lexus work that way?
Only other variable I can think of is that they have yet to clear out the LS430's, and the price of the LS460 will be closer than we expect. :confuse:
TagMan
This is the kind of poor guess work on the part of these sales guys due to lack of knowledge. They seem to have no clue as to prices, and just shooting it off their rear behind... pardon my french...
and was wondering if that blue inside the badging is optional or what. I don't really like it. It looks kinda cheap.
Although before the ES was shipped out, some savvy spy photogs snapped some shots at the port...
Anyhow, as for the hybrid badging, yes I believe the blue '600h' tag is standard. This is because past RX 400h hybrid owners complained that their badging was not distinctive enough to indicate the hybrid status; so with the 2007 models, the GS 450h, RX 400h, and 2008 LS 600h L, the '###h' tag will have special colors, and 'Hybrid' badges will appear on the side doors.
The GS tag is shown here:
http://lexus.com/assets/models/gallery/photos_popup/main_assets/exterior/GSh-029- _lg.jpg
If it bothers you that much, I think you could fairly easily arrange to have the badging replaced with a less-obtrusive one.
I just wish they offered a choice of colors, or matched the color with the vehicle color, but hopefully in nearly all or most cases the badges match alright.
. . . comprised of photocells to help recharge the batteries. :P
TagMan
Oac, tell them what we all are?
;-)
len - I know it is early to say this, but I am very confident that your LS600hL will come in around the sweet spot you are hoping for.
It makes huge sense to be in the 90K+ area. Given that there is supposed to be a super sedan LFS650, or something to that effect, I think Lexus knows that they need to be realistic on this LS600hL hybrid model. They'll save the six-figure numbers for that super sedan. I just do not see this LS600hL going into that six figure arena.
As you say, there is a lot of time left, and it is hard to know with certainty. Of course it is always possible that the LS600hL price will be released along with the rest of the LS line-up, but I doubt it very much.
One thing is absolutely certain, IMO . . . as I've emphasized from the very beginning, the LS600hL will be a very exclusive vehicle and will set a new standard.
Just wait until the reviews of the LS600hL come out. I am convinced it will have absolutely unprecedented praise.
You will be very fortunate to own one. Very fortunate, indeed.
TagMan
S550 curb weight: 4465Ib
LS460L curb weight: 4465Ib
Exactly same curb weight, yet according to Merc1, the LS feels lighter and the S feels more sturdy.... Interesting comment... Cannot wait for the inevitable head-to-head comparo of these two cars... should be real fun.
Remember my post a long time ago on the Helm board when I reported Lexus was likely to make a super car and if that decision is a go than the LS600HL price stays on the lighter side. From my understanding today the L650 and LF-A will both be made and will have $125-150K pricetags. Nevertheless I still think the LS600HL, fully optioned, runs to or just over $100K (most though will likely ship around $90K) and I still think the early supply may sell over sticker. We'll see.
As for the designations, I have heard the LF-A being produced as the GT 450...L 650 sounds interesting, are there any other possibilities for this super-ultra Lexus?
It's interesting how the LS 600h L price will be somewhat capped by market positioning of an L 650. We have heard all these rumors of the 'ultimate Lexus' and the 'super sedan' and in many ways the LS 600h L is such a vehicle.
All rumors for now, but clearly the L650 may have a V12 motor, or a hybrid V10+battery. Toyota has a V10 that is scheduled to go into the LF-A, as I understand. The L650 should put out no less than 500hp, and may average 20+MPG... Won't that be something ? Incidentally, the LF-A is most probably a go decision already for MY2008, arriving Fall of 2007. Like you, I've heard it called GT450, or GT500. We'll know soon enough which motor it gets. But if a new V10 motor, would that not mean Lexus/Toyota have created 6 new engine powerplants in the past 3 years ?
V6 2.5L (IS)
V6 3.0L (GS)
V6 3.5L (IS/GS)
V8 4.6L (GS/LS)
V8 5.0L (LS)
V10 x.xL ??? (LF-A/??)
Hmmmm....
A true world-class HELM. Chauffeur recommended . . . but with that V-12, driving it oneself would be too irresistable.
Timeline? E.T.A.?
TagMan
M
And while we're on the speculation front, any chance of an LS 460d or something for the Euro market?
I agree the V12 LS 430 would have been premature, that was a good decision to delay that...but it also begs the question, a V12 LS from the latest generation?
I think the L 650 would have ottoman rear seats, but on both sides, If they call it that, I guess the nickname will be "The L"...
I've had the same need for clarification at times with "heavy", because sometimes it can mean substantial or sturdy, as you put it, but other times it can mean "overweight" to me.
For the sake of an example, every time I ever test drove the Nissan Z, since the time it became the ZX to the present day car, I've always thought that the car feels "heavy", but I've meant it to mean that the car feels a bit lumbering and overweight to me.
Anyway, not sure that adds too much more, but thought I'd toss it out there.
TagMan
I'd imagine the L650 would have one price and seating could be configured anyway you want. There will still be people who may want such a car to accomodate 3 rear occupants.
Tag - 2009 supposedly. Remember the LS600HL is technically a 2008 car.
Just cauught up. As usual - great write-up and very objective as have been all your reviews of events like this. Too bad they didn't have a sport suspension car for you to test.
Porsche Panamera could also launch in '09. I wonder what MB has up its sleeve.
TagMan
I'm glad you liked the review, but the LS460L I drove did have the sportier air suspension setup. I specifically asked the reps about this and I drove the car twice to make sure. This is why I didn't stand in line to drive the SWB LS460 because it didn't have the air suspension setup.
M
The Air Suspension may be the least sporty set-up available!
From the pics provided, those look like the 18" luxury wheels.
DrFill
Yes . . . but Yes again.
Lexus was indeed, by admission, intent on one-upping the Mercedes 7-speed, but beyond that magic number 8, was the intention of achieving a competitive 0-60 time, and a superior fuel economy rating.
BTW, I agree with your basic premise of computer intervention regarding engine and tranny data.
TagMan
I do wish the styling separated itself some from the "family" but none the less, I can't wait to drive it and will post accordingly.
FWIW, I agree with Merc on the heaviness of some cars not neccisarily being "unsprung weight" but the steering feel, switch gear, and the feeling of pulling up pavement which is how I would describe the Audi's I've driven
Indeed. The "heaviness" of the controls has everything to do with the amount of power assist that is put into the steering. The German cars have less power steering.
M
So which wheels are these?
Are these the sport package?
M
My bad... those are the 19" rims. The 18" ones have like 10 spokes or something. The front brakes also looked huge, so I'd suspect the car had the sport package (Touring Package).
18" wheel package:
19" wheel package: