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Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions

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Comments

  • ideleidele Member Posts: 200
    I happen to be the Editor in Chief of several scientific publications
    and accuracy of language is all-important.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    When I go on major trips I use my GX470 so trunk space is a nonissue for me. I'm signed for the 600HL first and a LWB LS460L sport edition second right now. My lease ends in late March and the two biggest concerns I have on the LS600HL are whether it's here (and available) by that time and whether or not it doesn't shock us with a $100K+ entry pricepoint. Had dinner with someone over the weekend who told me that Lexus market research shows that people will pay mighty big bucks for high end Lexus cars. Seeing that $91K on the LS460L is further proof of that. Can a BMW 7 (other than the 12 Cyl) even get to that price?
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    We have also been using my wife's RX400h for long trips but I am thinking that the LS600HL will be so fun to drive and so comfortable that it will be pleasure-full to drive on long trips. Fortunately, I don't have to worry about any lease with my LS430. So, I am ready for the LS600HL as soon as it gets here.

    My thinking is that there will indeed be an overlap with pricing between the fully loaded LS460L and the standard version LS600HL. I bet prices range between about 87K (standard version) and 100K+ for the ultimate (or is it "penultimate" ;-)) version. I imagine the standard LS600HL will have the majority of the options on the LS460L.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Cyclone - I'm inclined to agree with you on price (note my earlier post) but I'm telling you the Lexus name is more golden than I knew so I just have my fears on price. When I say major trips I'm talking 1200 mile vacation drives to South Carolina. I always drive for the simple reason that I stay 1-2 weeks and rather have my own wheels than a rental. We have friends in several places down there and will roam from Wilmington to Pauley's Island several times in a 2 week stay. Typically I stay in North Myrtle. But any shorter stay trip and I'm in the LS. I hit 105 mph and it felt like 55 on I95 in North Carolina a few years ago in my 2001 LS. Since then I set the cruise at 80mph for my own sake.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    I don't think Lexus is going to go off the deep end on pricing of the LS600HL. Yes, I was a bit surprised to see that the fully loaded LS460L is priced at 91K, but let's face it. A lot of this extra cost is due to that ottoman/massaging back seat option. A friend of mine today showed me the detailed specs on the LS460L he is about to get for 78K. This includes the most popular options like the Mark Levinson audio system, navigation, and the new parking assist feature. Thus, the 87-100K+ price range for the LS600HL makes a lot of sense to me.
  • excelsior88excelsior88 Member Posts: 71
    Yes indeed, the jump to $91K is largely due that special order Executive Class seating. Having read extensively about the motors used for the shoulder, shiatsu, etc. massage it has given me the impression that buying that special order is like buying a massage chair, along with the DVD player, tray table, etc etc.

    Lexus evidently wants the high-rollers to pay up some big bucks for that configuration...namely those folks who shell out $5,000+ for First Class airline seats, or even more for private jet expenses, etc. Indeed those who could care less about losing the 5-seat capacity for a 4-seat sybarite's haven.

    IMO, the 5-seat LS 460 L is very nice indeed, and more versatile. I only wish Lexus had done as in the Japan and Europe markets, and offered the RSES as a standalone option. Hopefully the coolbox, basic recline seats are still available--just like the Ultra Luxury version on the LS 430. It would be good to have the LS back seat area continue to have these features in some degree of abundance.
  • ikey78ikey78 Member Posts: 28
    The $91,000 LWB car with the exec seating package does not include Pre Collision and Radar Cruise control (PS). This is according to the information posted by the JM Lexus Florida dealership on Clublexus. This means that a truly fully loaded LS 460L will sticker in the mid 90K range.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I tend to agree with you guys on prices - I just want to see it in print. Remember the NY Times and some others have noted prices to $120K and after checking the 7 series last night I couldn't get a 750LI to the price points of the high end LS460L configs. So at $91K Lexus isn't hesitating to blow past BMW prices. My belief remains that we won't see 600HL prices like that because Lexus will bring in a car above that car by 2009 which technically is one year later. Remember the 600HL will have a 2008 designation.

    ikey78 - are we sure that is MSRP or is it a JM asking price? In 2001 some LS430 ultras went $5-10K over sticker at the beginning.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Let's say that the loaded LS460L with PCS comes in at $95K (assuming that's MSRP but it may be an asking price over MSRP) then maybe we can piece together the LS 600HL better.

    See if I miss anything here but the options on the 600HL are:

    A. 4 seat pckge
    B. dynamicr radar cruise (amazing that it's not std)
    C. Lexus Link (I thought it died)
    D. Rear climate seats
    E. Pre-collision
    F. 4 zone climate control

    We already know the 4 seat package is $10K. I'd say that PCS is at least $5K and everything else is $5K for a grand optioning total of $20K excluding anything special like wheels from the dealer. So pick your starting point. Are we $10K,$15K or $20K over the LS460L starting point. Whatever we settle on I'd say 15K of the options are then tied up in the 4 seat package (which most of us won't want) and in the PCS. Lexus Link, Dynamic radar cruise and rear climate seats will likely be standardized options built into every 600HL that ships here. I'd say the 4 seat option is special order and I don't know where they go with PCS.

    What do you guys think?
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Just me talking, I'm still not sold on the hybrid technology as being "cost effective". With the premium you have to pay to get one, and the potential savings on gas, it doesn't pencil for at least 200,000 CITY miles, because as you all know, the highway mileage is the same, or worse, as the 460 will be. The impact on the environment is neutral in my mind as well, due to the battery disposal issue. The cost of replacement batteries scares me, and the weight and loss of trunk space doesn't thrill me. I actually got a flat screen TV in my trunk IN THE BOX! The clerk was amazed, as was I.

    I just don't think the hybrid is a long term strategy. I think it's a stop-gap to make us feel better about ourselves. The one plus from my vantage point is the power output is outstanding, but given the other drawbacks, I'd rather have a V-12.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    Recall that the "base" LWB has Nav/HDD, back-up camera, XM, climate-control seats, power rear sunshade, power trunk open/close... all standard, adding $10K to "base" SWB for these features.

    So let's extrapolate to the 600hL which will have all of the 460L features, plus ML, LED hi/low beams, 19" wheels, Park assist, smart key, AWD, bigger 5.0L motor, batteries, higher output (444hp), E-CVT, and adaptive variable air suspension, all standard... I'd say these should add $15-20K premium to "base" 460L.

    Hence, my guestimate for the 600hL is $90K start to $105K loaded with the 4-seat Executive package.

    Here is the caveat: If Lexus wants this car to be truly exclusive low production model, then they could start it at $100K with everything except the 4-seat package, which if included would push its price to the NYT speculated $120K point. Its still a bargain compared to its true peer - the Maybach 57/62 which will run you north of $200K++.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    I'm thinking the same thing. A LWB car that is configured at $74-80K looks like one heck of a buy.

    BTW crude oil is now in the $57.70 range and I'm paying $2.19 - $2.24 for 89 octane and $2.29 - $2.35 for 93.

    "Here is the caveat: If Lexus wants this car to be truly exclusive low production model, then they could start it at $100K with everything except the 4-seat package, which if included would push its price to the NYT speculated $120K point. Its still a bargain compared to its true peer - the Maybach 57/62 which will run you north of $200K++."

    That's why the issue of a car above this in 2009 plays into this cars pricing strategy. That car is probably a foot longer and - well let's just say super luxurious (I learned my wording lesson yesterday) and 500+ horses.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    I agree with you. In fact, with the features already standard on the LWB, plus ML and Touring Package, you'd be at ~$80K even. That is a premium over the S550, with far more features.

    The SWB I am looking at will sticker at $71K, which is 5K over my target, but still do-able...

    OPEC cut production by 1m bpd today, so we should expect a slight uptick soon... And who knows what geo-political event lies ahead with Iran, which should push the price of oil to the $100 mark pretty quick... Here in my neck of the woods, 89 Octane is $2.35 and 91 is $2.59 / gallon.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Don't know if OPEC cuts will matter. The supply was always ample, That was a bubble we were in. I see oil down to the $48-$52 range in the future.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    That's why the issue of a car above this in 2009 plays into this cars pricing strategy. That car is probably a foot longer and - well let's just say super luxurious (I learned bu wording lesson yesterday) and 500+ horses.

    ooppss.. I forgot about the higher version above the LS series (rumored L650, with a V10 or V12 motor)). That's the super exclusive model, which should be competing at the S600-S65 price.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    I see oil down to the $48-$52 range in the future.

    I have to disagree.... In fact I see oil going HIGHER in the future not lower. Demand from China and India will increase, supply will decrease, and add in geopolitical events in Russia and the Middle East (lots bubbling underneath in these countries) which would exacerbate oil price to the higher range. I'd say we should enjoy the days of sub-$3 /gallon gasoline for now. Its gonna get worse.

    I'll e-mail you on some of this stuff privately, look out for it soon...
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Hence, my guestimate for the 600hL is $90K start to $105K loaded with the 4-seat Executive package.

    I know it's impossible to keep track of all the posts, so I'll just throw a reminder at you. You can verify that I posted on the HELM forum, as far back as April 14th, that the MSRP for the LS600hL will be $91,350.

    I've never adjusted my prediction at any time, and I still stand by it.

    God only knows how far off I'll be, but my prediction was made well before ANY new LS pricing was announced whatsoever.

    To be honest, it was a gut call, based upon what I knew of the vehicle, it's specifications, and my perception of Lexus marketing.

    And, I'm having an extra dose of fun waiting to see how close I come.

    BTW, I agree with you on the oil scenario. It will get worse over time. This easing of prices was only natural. Oil prices are kind of like using a yo-yo while walking up a mountain . . . ups and downs while the overall trend goes higher.

    TagMan
  • excelsior88excelsior88 Member Posts: 71
    Lexus Link was discontinued for the 2004- LS 430, but has been brought back for the LS 460, apparently with new organization, etc. It might be similar, but have nowhere near the functions, of the LS 460 G-Book in Japan, which offers--music downloads, an internal security camera that allows you to check on your LS via cellphone when it is in the parking lot, etc etc. Remote start is another Japan-only option...

    I agree Dynamic Radar should be standard, but we are seeing the LS 460 'bargain' base models be somewhat decontented (some even with no NAVI screen). It seems that the 2007 LS has a very large range of options and features, from basic to maxed out, fully loaded.

    As for the hybrid, I think it's pretty clear that the only hybrids that will actually save you money are the Prius and its competitors, which according to Consumer Reports will give you a few hundred dollars of savings after 5 years or so. The LS 600h L is about more power, lower emissions, and better but not superlative fuel economy. We'll have to wait and see about the trunk space--recently Lexus has not been shy about restricting it, and with the new LS, the different A/C filter options already intrude on trunk space.

    Lastly, I hope the L600 or L650 is targeted at Rolls/Bentley/Maybach, and maybe with super S600 pricing. But I believe the LS 600h L is the rightful vehicle to target the S600, content wise.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Your pricing and option breakdown for the LS600HL makes a lot of sense. Is it possible that the starting point is in the low 80sK?? If you recall, I posted last night that I saw my friend's LS460L pricing at $78K. This includes the Mark Levinson system, the new Navigation system, and the new parking assist as options and perhaps one or two more other minor options. It does not include the radar cruise control. I imagine this option is about 2K which would bring the cost up to about 80K. So, theoretically, it is possible that the 600HL could start in the low 80sK but not likely. We probably need to add about 5K premium for hybrid version and here we are in the high 80sK. I really believe that this is where the 600HL will start.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    When I was at the auto show I was told pricing wasn't set but likely would range from $82K - $102K. But it looks to me that Lexus studies show an ability to charge more so I'm liking a range of your starting point of $87K to OAC's $90K. I do think we'll have a $20K spread between base and fully optioned which is consistent with the range I was given at the auto show. After thinking about it the marketing in me says the logical range is $89,995 - $109,995 fully loaded with PCS and the 4 seat package. I think you'll see most cars ship in the $94-95K range with the handful of lower priced options configured into every car. That's why I call those things standardized options.
  • jd14jd14 Member Posts: 128
    I agree somewhat with the majority of price ranges posted on this forum for the 600h L, but $109,995 seems too high for Lexus. The LS line ranging in price from $61K to $110K just doesn't seem likely to me...although I could easily be wrong. Just my opinion.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Well the better way to look at is that in its most popular forms the LS will range from $65K - $85K. Suddenly you have a much narrower bandwidth. But you are crossing from a V8 to V12 equivalent when you bring in the 600HL. So naturally the banwidth gets a lot bigger. In the LS430 you technically had a $55K-75K (loaded ultra with PCS) bandwidth and you only had one model and one engine. Now you have 3 models, two engines and sophistication options everywhere. The more variance in options you have the greater the price bandwidth. Besides all that the $61K car doesn't exist in the real world and the $110K car (if that price is right) is a rarity.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    I don't think that folks will be purchasing this car with the idea that they will be saving money on gas. They will be buying it for its amazing technological innovations, awesome power, AWD, environmental concerns, etc. Yes, the trunk space is a concern for those that need a big trunk, but all I need is a trunk big enough to fit a few pieces of luggage. Let's wait and see how big or small this trunk will be.

    I don't know why you and some others are so concerned about the cost of a replacement battery. Give me a break. It will last for at least 10 years and maybe "forever". The original Prius battery is still doing great with as much as 200,000 miles of driving in some cases. This is a new generation battery that will be vastly improved over that of the original Prius. How many folks keep their cars for more than ten years these days?
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Couldn't agree more.
  • excelsior88excelsior88 Member Posts: 71
    Another consideration besides the L650 is the rumored GT 450/GT 500 supercar, which unlike the L650 has actually been seen in the flesh in some form or another...and that car has a rumored $100,000+ pricetag.

    I'm not very familiar with supercar pricing/features, but I wonder how the valuation of the car itself vs. the interior accoutrements would compare between the LS 600h L and GT 500? With the LS 600h L vs. L650 the comparison seems more clear...the L650 will offer more of what the LS has, plus extra stuff--and probably in a more exclusive, indivdualized format that is more chauffeur-oriented and less flexible than the LS...

    But the LS 600h L vs. GT 500...?
  • lsmwclsmwc Member Posts: 2
    This is my first post to this board. Tomorrow night (Oct 12) my wife and I, along with 100 to 200 others, have been invited to a private showing of the 07 Lexus vehicles. We have been promised at least one LS 600 will be included. But we're hoping both a LS 600 and a LS 600L will be on display.

    I'm very excited because I’ve been in love with the LS 600 and the 600L since I first viewed pictures of them on the Internet last January at the New York auto show. Surely the salesmen have the official prices by now. I sure hope so. I'll let you know if the prices are announced.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    There can only be an LS600HL. There is no LS600H for the US. Are you mixing up the 460 and 460L? The prices have been announced already.
  • lsmwclsmwc Member Posts: 2
    Man did I have it all balled up. Of course I mean the 460 and 460L. Yes I know the base prices have been released, but I haven't seen pricing for the individual options. If option pricing has been announced, please let me know where I can find the list. Thanks a million.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    I don't believe I have seen this question asked or answered yet.

    Does anyone know if the Nav in the new LS460 will permit on-the-fly route changes and input, as in the Acura RL ? Or are we still saddled with the lawyerly-based Nav with "I Agree", and grayed out features while the car is in motion...
  • excelsior88excelsior88 Member Posts: 71
    The over-5 mph safety restrictions still apply, AFAIK. However. some functions (such as bluetooth dialing), are now available in motion via voice commands.

    Furthermore, with the XM NavTraffic, the LS 460 will be one of the first cars, if not the first, to offer dynamic rerouting (change your route on-the-fly due to traffic conditions). I'm pretty sure that option will be available while in motion.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    What options would you pass on/definitely include?. First off I'd take the 460L. I'd pass on 4 zone climate (my kids can have the climate I dial up), PCS (though I'd take it if it was in a car I wanted on the lot), the 4 seat package and Lexus Link. I'd take AWD in a second if it was available (and you know it will be at some point, hopefully in the second half of the model year) and I'd also take the DVD system if it was an individual option and was placed in the head rests but alas it seems to be omitted as well. Dynamic laser cruise is not a big issue for me - just give me cruise but I'd expect just about every car shipped will have the laser cruise. After that it's an issue of sports suspension or air suspension for me. I'd take either and pass on the standard suspension.

    If I'm dealing with the LS600HL I'd pass on the PCS, 4 seat package and the 4 zone climate control.

    If my price estimates are right I should be around $81K for the LS460L and low 90's for the HL. Given AWD, added power and the added features/luxury of the HL it's the way I'd go without much thought. But I'm still concerned on price of the LS600HL.
  • oacoac Member Posts: 1,594
    I think you pretty much ball-parked it right on, Len... Using the posted pricing from a SE Lexus dealer:

    LS460L
    AS Air Suspension
    LL Luxury pkg. with Semi-Aniline leather
    MH Mark Levinson with HDD
    MZ Lexus Link
    PA Intuitive park assist
    PI Advanced Parking Guidance system
    Trunk mat, Wheel locks...
    Approx $81420

    Subtract PI & MZ, and you can get this car at $77K. Now add Touring Package or just plain jane air suspension, and you are at $81K.. which kinda fits perfectly your estimate above.

    For me, its pretty simple:
    LS460 SWB
    CP = Comfort Package
    NV = Nav w/Bluetooth/backup Camera
    PP = Auto Power Door Close & Auto Power Trunk
    PA = Parking Assist
    Z1 = Preferred Accessory Package
    MSRP = $67,242

    Looks like a good deal, except I'd take out PP and PA, and add in the 19-speaker ML (that's a "must-have"), and it'd still net out at under $70K. Anything over that may just push me into the LWB "base" + ML for like $74K. I gotta decide how elastic my price point will be....($68K SWB or $74K LWB) And if the Touring Pkg will make it into the mid-year refresh next year, that will greatly impact my choice and price elasticity :)
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    OAC - I forgot about the advanced parking assist. I guess that is the parralel parking feature. If I parralel park 10 times a year it's a lot. I'd pass on that as well.
  • landilandi Member Posts: 44
    Just came from Newport Lexus and they have 7 0r 8 LSs. Two silver and rest grey. The grey looks best. This car is so luxurious inside and out. I saw the sticker that was hidden in the trunk was just under $86,000. So the numbers that we have seen for the western region posted by Lexus of Glendale are accurate to the $. The trunk with rear air is ok. The AC unit takes up the rear of the trunk so the remainder of the truck is nice and rectangular but not deep. The rear seats are just so comfortable with lots of room even with the front seat all the way back and the rear seat all the way reclined and pushed forward. The middle seat is not very comfortable with no headroom for me (6’00’’). Cars cannot be driven until the 20th when they go on sale. The driving position is like a GS-very sporty.
  • jd14jd14 Member Posts: 128
    California here I come!!!
    :shades:
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    With $86K -$91K pricing (maybe all the way to $95K or $96K with PCS) on the higher end LS460L's Lexus has moved up to 2nd in pricing and not much behind the number 1 guy in V8 lux sedans. It looks like the company satisfied both value seekers and those that wanted that high pricing at the same time.

    Doc, Steve - you guys happy??
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    The driving position is like a GS-very sporty.

    If by "sporty", you mean you sit low in the bathtub and the cowl is high in front of you, I won't like this car. Is that what you're saying?
  • sidgriggssidgriggs Member Posts: 122
    My dealer gave me this price:
    LS460 SWB
    CP = Comfort Package
    NL = Nav w/Bluetooth/backup Camera
    PA = Parking Assist
    Z1 = Preferred Accessory Package
    MSRP = $69,377
    I'm in Texas
  • landilandi Member Posts: 44
    I think I know what you mean. In the GS, you sit so low that the instrument panel seems to be blocking your view and I do not like it either. LS is not like that but it is not like the LS430 wide open view either. In the brief time that I spent in the car, the doors did not make me feel like I was sitting on a bathtub. With sporty I mean that the gear shifter is short and the area between the two front seats is wide and high. I did raise the seat and felt that I had a good view of the outside. I hope I answered your question. I hope to go to the party later tonight; I will check it out again.
  • landilandi Member Posts: 44
    No, that seems high. See post #3134 for more accurate information. I saw a car in the OC Auto show which had the same sticker.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Preciate that, landi. You have exactly figured out my question. Please advise what you discover on second inspection.
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    landi - you have what seems to be the earliest invite of all. Mine is either the 15th or 18th - I'm not sure and will have to check. I also may be out of town now next week but I hope not as I'd hate to miss this. Please let us know details about the LWB and SWB if both are on display and the reaction to the car(s) of the folks that go to the event as well.

    Thanks.
  • guestguest Member Posts: 770
    Lexus has moved up to 2nd in pricing and not much behind the number 1 guy in V8 lux sedans. It looks like the company satisfied both value seekers and those that wanted that high pricing at the same time.

    Doc, Steve - you guys happy??

    In a word, yeah.

    Granted, I didn't expect loaded cars to be $90k+, I was thinking low-mid $80's.

    Does anyone think The Lexus LS can't support these prices?

    Demand will not be a problem.

    And the brand image of the LS, and Lexus, will definitely improve noticably.

    That's all I really wanted. :)

    DrFill
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    And the brand image of the LS, and Lexus, will definitely improve noticably.

    So, Doc . . . exactly what is it that you think has been so noticeably wrong with the brand image of the LS and Lexus?

    TagMan
  • ljflxljflx Member Posts: 4,690
    Doc

    From what I know - $100K+ up to $150K is a non-issue. In the US Lexus is aiming for the top and intends to be there before too much longer. That's why you have a $125K-150K sports car coming and a $150K V12 or V10 hybrid right behind that. Their market research supports it but they also have no intention of abandoning the customer base that got them here. It was at least 3-4 years ago that I said some real big things were due with the world wide intro. Now we are starting to see them. One other thing I was told is the GS is next for a big breakout change - 2-3 years from now.
  • landilandi Member Posts: 44
    I attended the event and everything was fabulous, the facilities, the food, drinks, deserts, the music, the ladies, and yes the LS460. There were over 1,500 people there! A very large gathering with lots of “upscale looking” people. Lots were mentioned about the German makes that the LS is going to be just as good or better. The most interesting story was told by one of the sales ladies that a guy told him, he is going to sell his Bentley to get an LS because the LS has everything his Bentley has. I am not sure I believe it but who cares. Now the Car (obviously all my opinions):
    Colors
    They had several cars: Sliver on black, grey on grey, grey on black, black on beige. One grey car was SWB. The black interior was the most luxurious. One of the reasons I like it is because of the grey color of the switches which kind of stand out in light colored interiors. The wood for the black interior is also richer in color. Grey was the best exterior color and looked blue under the showroom lights.
    Exterior Design
    Front profile is the weakness of the car. It is just not aggressive enough but it is clean. The 600 lights would definitely help. Side profile was nice. I liked the LWB over the SWB but both are nice unlike the 750i which looks out of proportion. Rear end is the best shot. You are going to enjoy sitting behind this car in traffic. The chrome stands out on the darker colors and just adds a touch of luxury. The colors and fit and finish are first class. The doors close with a nice thump. The standard 18” tires and wheels look ok with no noticeable gap between the tire and the fender. Two cars had 20” after market wheels. I did not like the design of the either style but the size looked nice. I would hesitate to put 20s because of the penalty on the ride. I may change my mind after I drive one.
    Interior
    On second inspection, visibility and GS “bathtub” feel are not an issue. But I still say it has a sporty feel. The gear shifter is in a prefect place unlike the A8 which is definitely out of reach. I thought Audi makes the best interiors! With this interior no other car comes close. It is as close as you can get to a Bentley at these price levels. The leather is so soft- ten times softer than the LS430. The instrument panel lights were not on but all the other switches are backlit with light blue which looks really nice. The front seats seemed to be head and shoulders above the LS430 but that is not saying much because the LS430 seats were the worst in the industry. I reserve my judjment after a long test drive. The back seat is where you want to be. They are so comfy and so roomy in the LWB. The SWB rear leg room is definitely adequate when the back seat is reclined and pushed forward all the way but the front seat is not all the way back. If front is all the way back, then it gets tight. The power rear seats make the 4-seater option obsolete. Weak point of the interior is where the center council sides continue forward under the instrument panel on the driver and passenger sides. I think the design could have been finished off much better. It is kind of hard to explain and is best to check for yourself. This is another reason I like the black interior because it hides this design.
    Trunk Space
    A little tight with rear AC but even without rear AC it looks smaller then the LS430. With rear AC is almost rectangular but the something is sticking out from the back of the seats. Overall the trunk design is poor. The Europeans have always had much cleaner and more usable shape trunks.
    Features
    Coolest feature is the electronic hand brake. If you put it in auto, you do not have to engage when parked and disengage when starting to drive. Furthermore, if you stop at a traffic light you push the button on the left side of the steering wheel and you can lift your foot off the brake pedal. When the light turns green, you simply push the gas pedal and go.
    Prices
    Fully loaded: LWB $86,000 and SWB $73,000. The only options not included in these cars were the pre-collision that has a camera on the steering wheel and the back pre collision. On the LWB the 4-seat package is not included.
    I hope you find this information useful. This is very elegant luxury car. It has gotten a little pricy for me because I like them fully loaded. I am looking forward to my test drive. If the body lean is reduced substantially, it is more likely that I will buy one next spring.
  • cyclone4cyclone4 Member Posts: 2,302
    Your information is indeed very useful. Thank you much for this great description of the new LS. I wish the trunk was a little larger but I guess you can't have everything. I will get my chance to inspect the new LS closely next Friday afternoon.
  • guestguest Member Posts: 770
    If you've read any of Merc's posts over the past 5 years or so, you'd see what is wrong with Lexus'/LS' image/perception.

    To be perceived as a butler, or some derivative stepchild that cannot compare with the vaunted S500 in image, or dynamics, is not what Lexus wants for the LS.

    It's the same as comparing an Acura RL to a Lexus LS. Although the LS is certainly much closer to the S-Class, there was/is a gap in their perceived value/appeal.

    This should be erased as soon as possible, and the new car will accomplish that. Apparently, Lexus sees what I see, and will make quite a frontal assault on the S-class, in particular, and the HELM class in general.

    Lexus is nobody's stepchild. :mad:

    Len

    I can't assess Lexus move uptown beyond the LS. The LS is their most valuable commodity, and it is being treated accordingly.

    I'd have to assume that if they can build something better than an LS, it would be quite an automobile. :)

    Personally, I'd fix the GS, which should have been fixed THIS generation, and get a stick into the IS350. And redo the SC and make it more spirited in it comportment. Make it something people would want to drive.

    Then build me a better Ferrari F430. If you have time. :blush:

    DrFill
  • gteach26gteach26 Member Posts: 576
    The lawyers win again on the 460 with the annoying "I agree" and the nav blackout while in motion.

    I hope you can still use the nav while in motion in the 460 by using the secret override technique available on the 430.

    You'd think that if the car senses a person in the passenger seat, it would allow for nav input while driving. Oh well! :(
  • guestguest Member Posts: 770
    Good job, Landi. :)

    I don't think the LS430 was a very good design, being bloated and far less elegant than the 2000 LS it replaced, plus the seats have been universally panned. And the beltline was too low, attracting more attention to the bulbous greenhouse.

    But it did run a good test on interest in the Ultra Lux Pkg. and Performance Pkg. Apparently Lexus will make these options more substantial and available in the 460.

    I agree that the front end is more clean than good-looking. Nothing really wrong with it, but the more aggressive S-Class is better up front.

    But unlike the S-Class, the car gets better the more you look at it, especially front to rear.

    The rear of the S is a total mess.

    I guess saying the LS has "Buns of Steel" might be inappropriate...... :blush:

    Let's just say the S isn't ready for a thong in the near future.

    DrFill
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