Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
I love track tests like that. All AWD models, pretty closely matched, too. Results can often surprise you.
Oh, and the funny thing is the Subaru Legacy GT spec.B got some important upgrades for 2007 - a Torsen rear differential and the 6-speed manual from the STI, both which would arguably make it quicker around that track.
-juice
Really it's about spartan vs. luxury here.
I'll take the Audi but the Evo is a damn nice machine!
Regards,
OW
The Lancer Evolution might look like a tuner sedan, but as soon as you get behind the wheel, it's apparent that it's the work of engineers with four rally world titles to their credit. The relationship among pedals, steering wheel, seat, and shifter is just right. The clutch is smooth and fluid, and the shifter has short throws and a sweet, easy action. The Evolution is easy to place, and outward visibility is excellent.
Actually, pretty much everything about the driving experience is excellent. Around the twisting Pattaya track in Thailand, it was a serious device. Mitsubishi claims that the 0-to-60-mph time is just under 5.0 seconds, the standing quarter-mile takes just 13.8 seconds, and the top speed is around 155 mph—numbers we can easily believe. In achieving that performance, though, the engine isn't the usual turbocharged light switch, revealing instead a linear power delivery on par with a much larger-capacity engine. From 3000 rpm, throttle response is scintillatingly sharp, and the engine rapidly zings past 7000 rpm. It doesn't sound particularly memorable from the inside, but the turbo's whistling and chirruping are suitably sporty.
Full rear view of a Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution
The single most impressive feature on the car is how idiot-proof it is, how easy it is to drive really fast. You don't need to have been to a racing school or to have learned to tame high-speed oversteer to go really, really fast in an Evolution. Cornering grip is outstanding—Mitsubishi claims lateral grip of 0.97 to 0.99 g—and the handling balance depends on your driving style. Go for the slow in, fast out approach, and you will have a little initial understeer followed by reassuring neutrality as you get on the gas. Gutsy drivers can throw it in way too hot and rotate the tail with either a dab of the brake pedal or a huge throttle lift before launching out of the corner as they put the power down. (We don't recommend this approach for the street . . . ) The all-wheel-drive system is pretty seamless, even in very tight turns where the initial understeer disappears as you squeeze on the power.
The brakes are fabulous; the ABS is perfectly tuned for track use, with no discernible wheel lock. The Evo even rides well, with impressive damping over Pattaya's evil curbs, although it is stiffly sprung. The car's only weakness is the steering, which is very accurate and direct but lacking in ultimate, Porsche-type feel. At highway speeds, the Evo is refined and doesn't suffer the low-speed torpor that afflicts the WRX.
If you want to go obscenely fast cross-country with minimal effort and still have a car that is practical family transport, the Evolution is the real deal. Until the WRX STi goes on sale, there's nothing for less than $45,000 that will cover ground as fast on secondary roads. If you want a car that shouts about you and your status in life, the Evolution isn't for you; but if you want a car for speed, then it is. The amazing thing is that it's a Mitsubishi—and even more amazing, it's based on the Lancer, a car that hardly sets our hearts aflutter. It's probably about time the Japanese automaker had an image car, because its current vibe is dowdy and dull. The Evolution should help to change that.
However, there are four new models in the mix that will shake the exec. coupe segment up. BMW has always been virtually alone here. G35 coupe wasn't nice enough, CLK was too nice, A4 only came in convertible.
New models, in order of introduction:
2008 A5. This is a very significant car for Audi, as it's the first on their new modular platform system. We've heard the hype- no nose-heaviness, seven-speed DSG, rear-biased quattro, no more VW-based Audis... I'm excited to see if this all comes true.
2008 G35 Coupe? This could come out before the A5, but I don't think so. Promises to be nicer.
2009 Mercedes CLK. This will probably be around the same price as it is now, but the others have caught up (almost), so it's not too expensive any more. Hopefully it will give Mercedes a more powerful standard V-6 to stay with the competition and close the gap on the overpriced (but hugely fast) CLK550.
???? Lexus IS Coupe. All I hear are rumors. Maybe it'll actually come out.
As this is an AWD forum, I think the most significant to us will be the A5. And I honestly do think that the new A4/A5 will be the first all-out 3 Series fighter ever. G35 wasn't refined enough, IS wasn't sporty enough, C-Class just wasn't enough, but the A4 always got "close". I have a feeling the new one, on the new platform and with promised new engines (like a new V-8 in the S5 that is supposed to debut on the 2010 A8), will be the first in a crowd of pretenders.
'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
I like it!
For some reason friends of mine that have had them gave them up because of little things that kept adding up, often electrical things.
-juice
and, to keep it somewhat on topic, why did you decide on a RWD car?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I went with RWD because i think you need snow tires in any case, and i feel that RWD+snows is perfectly adequate, as i'm not climbing icy mountians. IMO DSC keeps you safe, not AWD.
And, yes, the 335xi may qualify for this topic.
I would like to ask the hosts if they can add any light to possibility of a track test of the '06-'07 AWD vs. RWD 3series.
I see some comparos with the Carrera 4 vs. 4s and others where awd actually outperforms the rwd model.
Regards,
OW
It’s hard to compare the Porsches with the 3-series because of the striking difference in weight balance. The 911s are tough to handle in turns as you approach the limits because of its extreme rear weight bias and the AWD mitigates this by putting weight up front. AWD will perform better in corners because of its ability to add pull through them but there is still the weight tradeoff. That extra 242 pounds in the 328i vs 328xi is a lot. The difference in the C2S vs C4S is only 121 pounds and the Porsches weigh considerably less to begin with. But remember, the thing that makes the 911 AWD so desirable to some is the “improved” weight balance and tempering of the oversteer. This is not the case with the BMWs which go from virtually neutral to front bias.
you make excellent points as does shipo and habitat. I really want to test the c4s which is possibly ultimate awd at the end of the day. In March I will be all over the 335xi to see the next iteration in turbo dress.
Just a point, the x-drive and electronic nannys are not intrusive together in this package on the north side of rational driving. The combination really works well, IMO. Wet traction defies logic!
Regards,
OW
I agree about the options. When I priced one, I believe the only option I found I would really like was the cold weather and smartkey thing. Although metallic paint would probably be on there, too.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'm thinking BMW 335i, Mustang GT, Acura TL type S, Infinity G35 and the like with a maximum sticker price of around $50,000. What others are available with manual transmissions (the kind with the clutch pedal on the floor, remember)?
In the market for one, preferably new '06 or '07. AWD is not a requirement.
Here's a link for the rest of you to join in: Cars? Stick shift and 100 MPH in the 1/4 mile.
RS4 without question.
-juice
Regards,
OW
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/122116/2007_audi_rs4/
Regards,
OW
The S4 is a perfectly "ultimate" machine!
'06 Audi A3 2.0T DSG • '05 Audi S4 Cabriolet • '04 Lexus RX330
-juice
Beautiful car, however. Just the halo Audi needs.
-juice
When the 335Xi comes out, this will be BMW's closest shot at this category.
The Lancer EVO is also a good candidate but I believe the RS4 edges it in a few of the performance categories and the difference in accommodations are worlds apart.
Regards,
OW
Audi revolutionised the world of Rallying with their Quattro system and, therefore, are often - and incorrectly - attributed with the invention of 4WD. Well may be the best technical system; I cannot judge but is almost certainly best known car system.
Just me being an anorak.
No, don't send sympathy - send money.
Heck, buy a 335xi (if you want AWD) in the US under ED and ship it back and you will save USDThousands!
At the same time, purchase an ISO Tanker of fuel in NJ and send back to GB to save even more! (an ISO tanker holds 24,000 liters!).
Regards,
OW
Ah, buying a car in USA and shipping is a fine idea, except that the UK auithorities then sting you for Import Duty as it's from outside the EU. Not sure what the rate is, (but it's probably +17.5% VAT as well), but I believe the value used for calculation of Import Duty etc is the UK Customs' valuation. This may, or may not, be the same as the USA Invoice value.............their decision, I think but I'm happy to be corrected. No win.
As for fuel import for personal use - forget it. When we pay £1 per litre at the pump, approx 72% of that is Duty & Tax. Guess what they'd hit you with at port of entry ? Want to run your diesel on recycled cooking oil ? No problem - provided youe pay the full Duty & Tax same as proper diesel. Do it and son't declare it ? Huge fine if caught.
In the U.K. the motorist is Public Enemy No. 1
Sorry, heading for a rant, again. Nearly time to SKYPE my friend in TX and calm down. At least SKYPE is still free.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto_Union
http://www.hlj.com/product/TAM32403
http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~lloyd/4/History/
from last link:
1902: Spyker featured a 6-cylinder engine and four wheel drive!
Krzys
Hmmm, call me nuts but didn't AMC offer a jacked up "Hi-Rider" version of their butt ugly Eagle sedan with AWD back in the late 1970s? :confuse:
Best Regards,
Shipo
So, if you don't mind part-time 4WD with a transfer case, I guess you could call it an AWD sedan..
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Willys had a 4wd "station wagon" back in 1947.
They aren't particularly tall, but taller than a subie or eagle, so maybe just a very early SUV.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Subaru was first to do it on a car platform. Then AMC.
Audi was first to employ full-time AWD, I believe.
By the 90s, with cars like the Diamond Stars, AWD was pretty well integrated.
-JAJ
Regards,
OW
Any others? Anyone?