Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Also, the STi and EVO are very extreme machines, in face I'd argue that they are more extreme, as in requiring more compromises from the driver, than even that Bentley.
-juice
"Steering wheel felt slim and plasticky" Umm, gotta disagree with you there. Momo might not offer the best for their OEM lines, but certainly is right up there in feel and thickness versus the competition.
-B
Was this an 05 or 04 model G35? 05's have a new interior. Nissan heard the complaints and addressed them. The G35 MT has real aluminum covering the center console, doors, etc. It's quite nice actually. Far more substantial than anything in the TL, TSX, 3, MB or GT.
Acura uses real aluminum too, FWIW. Besides, the stuff dents easily, if you bump a briefcase up against it.
This is a case where fake aluminum (pluminum?) is actually better.
-juice
-B
Gen I was Guigiaro, but CALTY messed up Gen II and the proportions just didn't look right.
-juice
Subaru Legacy GT Wagon offers more cargo space, and although it has about 50hp less than Audi, it makes up for it in curb-weight.
With the shotty reliability of Audi's & the high sticker price, Subaru Legacy GT becomes the obvious choice. The only thing you lose is the status that comes with the 4 circles! :-)
What I did not like about the LGT compared to Audi:
--Small rear seats & passenger volume.
--Narrow wheels & tires. Audi has 255/40/17 size.
--Inferior fit & finish quality, especially leather.
--Slow Auto-Manual (Tiptronic) shifting in Subaru. The LGT reads a book before shifting.
--No memory seats, navigation, quality sound system (such as Bose).
Krzys
PS BMW, if I am not mistaken, has AWD that works all the time. New 5 series with AWD might be more to your liking.
Audi, Subaru, EVO are indeed full-time.
You can add BMW, Mercedes, and Infiniti, that I know of. All systems are full-time and send most of the power to the rear axle for kicks.
-juice
By the way, if I were you, I'd go out and test the new 4.2 A6, because we did after our '00 A6 2.7T. We thought the 3.2 wasn't ample enough, so looked at the S4 and A6 V8. The A6's luxury-heavy heritage is apparent here, but in performance, also, it really gives the BMW 545i and Mercedes-Benz E 500 4Matic a run for their money.
Yikes!! Where did that come from? Audi undoubtedly makes some nice cars - both to look at and drive, but long term reliability is not their strength - not even close to Toyota, Honda, Subaru, or even Ford for that matter. My data is from the latest issue of Consumer Reports, which as far as I know is the only statistically accurate source concerning long term reliability.
Not really. We're not talking about the A4 1.8T, we're talking about the V8 S4 and even the RS4. Those are ultimate.
S40 T5 is merely "great".
-juice
Krzys
This is a not uncommon misperception.
It's not an Audi forum, it's a discussion on the Sedans Comparisons board. It is linked to all the vehicles you see at the top of the page. So it shows up when you look for Volvos, also, as well as the rest.
exactly...thank you...Audi is not the only company that makes AWD Sport Sedans....
dave
The S4 and RS4 are ultimate.
-juice
The R's interiors is more lively then Audi's S4.
The S40 T5 is a competitor to the Audi A4 - no question. I have driven both and the T5 will spank the 4 cylinder Audi and stays GLUED to the road.
If you are considering long term ownership I definitely would stick with Volvo. I've owned elderly Audis and Volvos. Audi has had lots of automatic tranmission problems and a poor history with electricals. Volvo's in general last longer and are cheaper to maintain. The older Volvo's electrics are robust and reliable so I expect the same with newer ones.
I currently own an Audi and my wife owns a Volvo. I can say that from our experience they are about equal in terms of reliability, neither being great.
I have not seen the interior of the R, but I have a hard time believing that it is a better interior than the S4. If it is, I would love to see it.
.........and to piggy back on the quote above from bellamusica, I know that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, but the Audis interior ARE the benchmark of what a car interior should look like. At least almost 100% of car magazines ALWAYS praise the Audis for their outstanding finish in the inside.
I own the 2005 A4 1.8 and I've sat on my co-worker 2004 S40,, and my friends, sorry (again beauty is in the eyes of the beholder)...but you can not even compare the display, finish touches, elegance (yet connected to the driver), plush yet sporty, feel of the bottoms and knobs, and lets not even talk about how gorgeous that interior looks at night.
I might give the S40 the reliability contest (by a hair nonetheless), but never, never ever, will the S40 come close to our beloved interior.
Just my 2cents :shades:
are you kidding me?....your friend must have the old body style S40....the new one was released halfway through the 2004 model year....there was a 2004 and a 2004.5....i've sat in both 2005 cars multiple times in the last 4 months and the S40's interior is WAY COOLER!!!......i mean...it's just sexy...i'm not saying the A4's interior isn't nice, because it is nice.....but(and it's a big but), it looks, well, like a nice version every other sedan on the road's interior...the only stand out thing in the A4's interior is the screen....but who needs navigation in america anyway?....and even if u did opt for navi, the S40's navi screen rises up out of the dash above the center console and air vents...it looks amazing if navi is your thing....
bottom line: the A4's interior is nice, but ordinary....the S40's interior is trend setting...it's a work of art really...click the link...
The NAV in the A4 flips backward at the push of a button, and there are two MP3 Stick slots, and one DVD Player. Anyway, I think you're exaggerating the S40 a little bit. The materials aren't as good as the Audi's, a "rise-up" navigation screen isn't that amazing (the one in the Infiniti is better), and the interiors, overall, on all Volvos, would never come close to an Audi. It's just, even if something in the Volvo looks better, it's not really better. The Audi has muhc more attention to detail, and its interior isn't comparable. Besides, this is the older model A4's interior, all they did was slightly freshen it. Wait until they redesign it- it will surpass the Volvo's by, mmmm, maybe 10x. I mean, look at all the other Volvos compared to other Audis. Volvo is not a trend-setting company, besides in safety features. Mercedes has more of those, anyway. Audi is the trend-setter in interiors, and after the new model comes out in 2008, the A4 will be too.
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, I just hope that you will never judge a beauty contest in your lifetime my friend, what a disaster that will be!!! :shades:
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. I was looking at this from the perspective of handling. I've had a chance to drive the s60t5AWD on a track back to back with the s40t5AWD and the s40 is much better handling--this was at the volvo weather driving event. However, i don't think the s40t5awd as good as even an a4 with sport package. I also think the audi interior is better than the s40 interior. The 60 interior is closer if not quite there.
As for the "futuristic" s40 interior, ok there's the thin center panel but, eh, so what? The narrow row of buttons just wastes console space in my opinion. On the other hand, i find the s40 interior to be extraordinarily comfortable. I love the seats.
I will have to admit the Audi A4/A6 interior may have better fit than the S40 or S60 R but I like the S60R interior more than either Audi's - Like i said it is more Lively. Have any of you looked at the interior choices (Inscription service I believe) Volvo is offering on the S60 models ?
I owned an Older Audi 5000 - every power window failed (never had that problem all the older Volvos I owned), the automatic tranny failed (never had that problem with my older Volvos), Power sunroof failed (never had that problem with older Volvos) and Audi was still using DRUM brakes (Volvo stopped that in 1967 i believe).
Overall Volvo builds a better quality car even if Audi's interiors feel better put together - who cares if the rest of the car is falling apart ? How many Audi owners proudly take their cares to 300,000 or 400,000 miles plus on original engines and automatic transmissions ?
Don't forget how much VW is still in your A4 ...and I do realize Volvo is using the European Ford Focus platform (but not engines and transmissions) for the current S40. But that platform is garnered nothing but praise for its handling prowess in the automotive circles.
I'd rather have money spent where it really counts (powerful engines, reliable transmissions) then to be able to brag that my interior is put together better than yours.
rjorge3, it's obvious i'm dealing with people that "know it all" because they read Car & Driver on the tiolet....then drive their $55,000+ cars that Consumer Reports told them was nice to the golf course and shoot 110+ and make themselves feel better by mocking an intenet posting(minus the pictures linked to, of course)....of course the owner of a 55AMG(more than twice the price of an S40) is gonna laugh at my post, especially since his wife drives an ugly as sin 2000-2002 S60....the reality of this all is, your buddies have never seen the interior of the 05 S40 and are equating it to the historical aesthetics of volvos of the past...which are, well, hiddious inside and out....however, a lot has changed in the last few years....
esf is obviously the only person in this thread that has either a) clicked on the links i provided, or b) actually saw or sat in an 05 S40....he disagree's with me, and thats fine, but atleast he compared the two and gave reasons for his opinions and not..."i showed your post to my ignorant fat-cat golf buddies and they laughed..". rjorge3, i'm glad you and your friends get a kick out of ignorance....tell your buddies with the AMG and 530 i'll play 18 on a course they choose and spot them 5 strokes if they put their cars on the line...you on the other hand can keep your tired A4... :P
The Haldex in the Volvo is primarily FWD and then shifts power quickly, but the Audi is different in that both axles get power all of the time.
The systems work very differently.
I like the S40's interior design but the materials below waist level leave much to be desired. The Audi is the opposite, wonderful materials with a design that leaves you cold.
This discussion almost deserves its own thread.
-juice
I think there is less than 10 lb torque difference between the R and the S4 and the Volvo hits it peak torque at lower RPM. Yes the S4 has signficantly more horsepower with it's V8 but don't forget the Volvo S60 R (turbo 5 cylinder) can be purchased and chipped/modded to reach the S4 horsepower and significantly exceed its torque ratings for less than it would cost to buy an S4.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
. And no, we did not make fun of you...we just got a kick out of your point of view. that's all. And yes we ALL sat in the interior of your beloved Volvo 2005 in the NYC auto show. And yes we all have seen (in person not in magazines), the interior of your beloved Volvo....and I am so sorry that this makes you angry, but still is not as beautiful as my "tired A4).
Oh, you will make my buddies very angry though, see, you called them "fat-cat golf buddies"...ummmm lets see J (he owns the 55AM) he is 6-2 195lbs; P (owns the BMW 530) he was an all start in Basketball Division 1 in City College (NY) 5-9 190lbs of solid muscles; and yours truly 5-10 180 lbs and play basketball, baseball and snowboarding. See again/??? not all golfers are out of shape dear.... .
Jesus! I almost forgot, we have a tee time at Van Cortlandt Park Golf Course in the Bronx at 6:00 am this coming Thursday. PLease feel free to come and we will welcome your 5 stroke. J (55AMG) will be more than happy to take you on your bet....just make sure you don't bring a Volvo to the bet , because he would be very very upset
p.s.
we don't know it all...........just enough to have an opion
I think a golf tournament, Ryder Cup style, would be great to watch. The losers would have to spend an entire day sitting in the winners' cars.
Thanks.
Once again the S60R is equal in terms of acceleration to the Audi S4 and does so at a lower price and has a driver selectable suspension. R&T indicated how the V70R can out slalom a Corvette.
"Hans Nilsson: How a car should handle is a very personal taste. This car (Volvo S60R) is set to be neutral, with a tendency to understeer. We use the oversteer for steering into a curve. In the lower speed range, we have a setting for more rear-wheel drive.
We have tested competitors on a racetrack. With an M3 around the track, there was also a tendency to understeer unless you force it to oversteer . I would say that when you go into aggressive oversteering to force a car around a corner, you lose a lot of speed. That is my personal opinion.
But, with a clock, you will see that more oversteer is very often not faster, though it is fun."
So when you read all these magazines proclaiming how fun it is to oversteer through corners - how practical is it ? How useful is it on the street ? The S60R is a better thoughout car for real world situations.
But neither of those are sedans. :P
Ultimate does not equal practical. In fact it implies the opposite.
-juice
But isn't the whole point of an AWD sport sedan to have car that is superior in the real world ? not a Dry Track.
Bob
...That is truly B.S. Last time I checked the Europeans actually consider the S80 T6/Executive versions as smart alternative to costlier versions of the Audi A8 and BMW 7 series. I have issues of European magazines that make the comparison and play the S80 T6 right against the Audi A8.
No, Volvo does not sell sedans at the same price bracket as some of their European competitors however that doesn't mean they can't compete. The S80 T6 will still run (despite being the oldest one of these competitors) with the Audi A8 and VW Pheaton.
The S60R despite being much cheaper than the S4 will still run with it in terms of performance.
I've OWNED both Audi's and Volvos - and have driven some of their latest products. Audi has nothing special going on over Volvo except selling some more expensive models. Audi's are LESS reliable, cost more to maintain and aren't as durable and often sell at a higher price point.
Many American's seem to have this perceived superiority of German products (Despite all the data indicating poor reliabiliy for many of the makes)...people still brag about how superior Audi's and BMW's are however both these makes were putting drum brakes on their cars long after the Swedes switched to 4 wheel disc. Hell BMW had drums up until the early 90's on lesser variants of the 3 series.
-juice