Buick Lucerne

kfriel · April 2006

So after watching this forum for a while and secretly lusting, and knowing it is going to be at least a year before I get one, Fortune struck. My wife biffed our new Pontiac Torrent.. again... (long story) The good news. Last rental was a Toyota Camry (yuk floats like a boat on ice).

Good news this time rental is a white Lucerne CX with buckets AND HOPEFULLY it will be 28 days before the Pont is fixed!!! I told them to take their time on the repair.

Could I live with a V6? Got some time to find out.. The plan was a CXL V8 in a year. Gotta go hustle this bad boy over Angeles Crest hwy (for those of you in Southern Cal) this weekend.

imidazol97 · April 2006

Let us know how the V6 drives after you get used to the shifting characteristics and so on. I'm anxious to know because of the many comments about not enough power. IT's been more than enough in three leSabres but I want a full report, please.

rake2 · April 2006

Saw a Toyota commercial just tonight in which Toyota tries to do just that.

imidazol97 · April 2006

Thank you for the report. Many people don't realize how their impressions and opinions are crafted by commercials.

Recall the Volvo thing from long ago, Strong, Safe, Quiet. They showed it hold up a full-sized Oldsmobile. THEN the word got out the roof had been reinforced!!!! HOOT HOOT.

rayainsw · April 2006

"Yes, it would be a good for money to end up in USA as its final destination. I assume they are thinking that as well in say England, where they no longer have the end money from say the Jaguar. "

Well, in that particular case, Jag has yet to send any money back to Ford world HQ - though Ford has sent Billions to invest in the UK. With negative return, so far.

My GM (Grand Prix) was assembled in Canada.

But where were the components made \ assembled? Like the transaxle that needed replacement at less than 6,000 miles?

Dunno.
But none of this will likely be an overriding influence on the brand or model of my next car . . . The degree of fit to my requirements and desires - and actual transaction price will be far more important.

And a Buick Lucerne GNX (or such) made most anywhere could interest me.
- Ray
Just 1 data point.

m1miata · April 2006

Well the Volvo of that era was indeed safer than an Oldsmobile. The commercial with plywood used to reinforce the roof, was a bad choice for Volvo to do. Really not good press there. Current crash test on LaCrosse went off well. Looks like Buicks have improved over the years on safety. Interesting to see test scores higher on a Sonata than a CTS. Ya never know until ya try. I hope the Lucerne does better than the Devilles. The four star rating doesn't look good. Now one does have to consider the heavier car wins, so a Sonata divided into a Deville may equal a Cadillac is left standing. Or perhaps not. And there are all types of crashes. Really, the test scores are so-so for this price range of car. Maybe they will have reinforced something in the new Lucerne/DTS chassis before the next run of the dummies. They are ever so close to a 5 star.

I think they could lower the price on V6 models, or at least offer one with more HP. I have seen some with $33K and the 197HP engine. Hummm? Maybe the V8 would be better at that price. Maybe I read the sticker wrong, and it was the V8, but I am pretty sure the model type matched.
-Loren

kfriel · April 2006

I have seen some with $33K and the 197HP engine. Hummm?
Loren,
I agree, been looking everytime I see a Buick dealer. Where is this "mythical $29.9K" V8 CXL? Havent seen one yet.
Kevin

imidazol97 · April 2006

Have you priced one on Edmund's new car site?

62vetteefp · April 2006

Base price on a V8 CXL is under $30k.

m1miata · April 2006

How then are they so expensive on the lot?
To order one under $30K would be the way to go!

Or wait a year and get it for say $23K. Problem with that would be most are sold fully loaded. And side stickers is the American way.
-Loren

62vetteefp · April 2006

Dealers order their own cars for their maximum profit for their market. At the start of production of a new model that is showing hot sales they will order more loaded vehicles that give more profit.

In looking at a "base" CXL it is very nicely equipped. The options I would add are the XM/HK stereo system and the heated seats/power passenger seat/memory package which would add about $1400. About $29,400 total

sls002 · April 2006

The CXL V8 with no options is about $30,000, well $10 less. However, I think at minimum, one would expect the luxury package. A sunroof will add more...

So, a V8 will probably run about $32,000 to $35,000 for the CXL model. Most dealers will order them with the options that will make the cars sell. If you want one for under $30,000, the V6 will probably be the best choice, although one could order. I would think that a dealer would take about $30,000 for a CXL that is not loaded with too many options.

poncho167 · April 2006

I agree. Are the Mercedes and BMW's produced in the U.S. considered American? A foreign company remains a foreign company no matter where they produce.

poncho167 · April 2006

I remember the Volvo debockle with the reinforcement. I believe it was on Dateline TV. They had a commercial showing a monster truck driving over a Volvo and the roof showed little crush damage. After an investigation it was determined that yes the roof pillars were reinforced for this commercial. I believe they absorbed a good sized fine for this deception.

Volvo markets their cars as the safest in the world but I have read crash tests that showed many other cars far as well. Their 40 model, whatever they call it, performed poorly in last years crash test and will likely be discontinued because of lack of sales.

Mercedes is still recognized world wide as the leader in safety/crash worthiness, and Mercedes doesn't market their cars for this.

imidazol97 · April 2006

The image they pushed into people's minds from the years of advertising that their cars were safer still lingers in most people's minds. It's the same as those who bought a bad car in the 80s and still complain because their XYZmobile did this or didn't do that. It's the same as the Accord getting less mileage than my V6 3300 Century in 1989 advertising how they drive past gas pumps because of their great gas mileage--lingering attitudes from their 4 cylinder, manual transmission days.

People respond to advertising. Ford has even made their Fusion group of three cars look Volvo like to make that connection with the Ford Volvo for safety.

m1miata · April 2006

So?

It is a World economy. GM builds and sells in other countries.
The so called American GM may be built in Canada or Mexico, or several other countries. Parts is parts.

I can just see them in Germany thinking, gee that Opel is a foreign car, no matter where it is produced. Better not by that. I think they have for decades. GM is a foreign company to many.

So?
-Loren

m1miata · April 2006

The Civic gets 40MPG highway. Check out the sticker.

imidazol97 · April 2006

Accord-read the post. Auto, V6 to compare with 3300 Century in 1989!

m1miata · April 2006

1989 Accord 24/30 = 26 average gas mileage according to the government fuel mileage website. The 1989 Century got 20/29 = 23 average.

And the Accord is good for 300K miles. Handles great - less filling

-Loren

62vetteefp · April 2006

I think you have the Avalon confused with a Lucerne which is what this forum is for.

Now that you mention it though I do not believe this forum has had any owner complaints except for the front seat being too small for one person.

fin · April 2006

Interesting thought.... no problems except a front seat that is not large enough for a particular person. If there are no other problems to post and discuss, looks like a GM winner in the making, maybe. wow.

poncho167 · April 2006

I don't understand your response. Opel is a German company and those in Germany know that and don't consider it American though it may share some parts. The Chevrolets produced in Canada to Canadians are considered American brand cars. The question isn't the parts contents origination, it's the company producing the final product.

Again what I was saying is that no matter what foreign company comes into the U.S.A. and builds cars, etc., they are still considered a foreign company no matter what materials are used to make them. A Japanese company is a Japanese company no matter where its made.

poncho167 · April 2006

But what is the real world mileage? Looks like a marketing ploy to me.

poncho167 · April 2006

Like anything else, an Accord will only last as long as it's maintained good.

larrymit · April 2006

Is a Chrysler a foreign car? Made by Mercedes.

pat · April 2006

Buying American Cars: What Does It Mean?

hint, hint

kfriel · April 2006

First of all a big HELL YES. I like this car.
Specs: White 3 Porte, bucket seats w/console shifter. Cloth seats and base radio I presume. Tires, Bridgstone Insignia 16's. Rental car co Enterprise, Location So. Cal. 6181 on the ODO. Rattle free.

Ups: Wow can I really get all this for $26K? Ride= NICE supple yet responsive. Very Quiet. Turn the key and the engine barks to life instantly. Very roomy. Radio NO distortion at full volume. Engine, surprisingly throaty mellow growl. Power= acceptable. Better then I expected actually. Shift points seem to be about 4500rpm and then again at 5700rpm. Can usually get a quick crisp downshift if you drop the hammer from cruising speed. Sometimes for example uphill start from red light, if you floor it there will not be a gear change. Handiling, VERY GOOD, taut and planted in sweepers. Interior very roomy and comforatable.

Downs: WILL get out of shape on a tight 90 degree right or left hander. Front end push/understeer tires squeal like little school girls. Still feel in control though. Sweepers,planted UNTIL you apply the brakes or hit a small bump. Was doing about 75 in a big sweeper hit a dip, suspension unloaded. Drove same corner again, with out hitting the bump and applied the brakes and the back end lifts and wants to come around. NOBODY WANTS TO RACE ME

Styling: Something needs to happen below the front licesne plate holder, slab sided and drab with slats only. Any chance we could have foglights? Could we have a hood ornament or does that ruin the lines/sport characteristics?

Summary: I had a thing for it now I'm in love. I have of course driven both this and a V8 on test rides only. Could I live with a V6? Yes. do I want the V8? Probably, will have to do a back to back test drive while I have this car. Can turn traction control off, but indifferent to me as I cannot chirp it off the line either way on dry pavement. Very minimal torque steer only in a tight corner on the gas. Very impressed so far.

Current daily driver: 95 Jaguar XJ6 with 135K on the ODO that WILL NOT DIE and unfortantely just passed smog for another two years.

m1miata · April 2006

Opel is a brand with a long-standing tradition in Europe and today produces and sells vehicles worldwide. Opel was founded in 1862 in Rüsselheim, Germany and joined the General Motors family of cars and trucks in 1929.

It is a GM brand.
-Loren

m1miata · April 2006

They usually get at, to 10% above the government figures on gas mileage for Honda's. ( IMHO )

I have owned some V6 GM cars, and they generally, on the highway, got up to 10% over the government gas mileage figures. I think it is the nature of the beast. It happened too many time to be luck. Well the last GM V6 got at the figure - something like 30 MPG. One of the best features of GM is the V6 gas mileage, though it could also be in the taller top gear.
It seemed a little high.

-Loren

pat · April 2006

Let's please get back to the Lucerne. Thanks.

poncho167 · April 2006

If you would carefully read the last couple of pages where this conversation started, you will notice this was not a question about domestic content, but a question of is it an American company or a foreign company regardless of where the wires and tires came from.

kfriel · April 2006

I would definatley want at leaset 17" wheels on this car. The brakes are excellent. 4 speed tranny seems "just right" in this car. Can't imagine it would be much differnet with the V8. My wife has driven it a couple times to work now as well. She is onboard. Wants to get heated/air leather seats which works for me because I have decided I want the V8 so we are looking like a CXL V8 when the time comes. Had my long legged daughter sit in the back seat, her comment was "wow this is the first car I can sit like a normal person in"

Looks like I have it for one more week. Fuel economy on the V6 per the trip computer states 21.6, and we are both driving the hell out of this thing. Plan to go see my dealer tomorrow if he has a CXL V8 on the lot to compare motor wheel combo.

pmerk28 · April 2006

It was the dark blue color. Not the CXS. Looked pretty sharp. I'm only 33 and probably too young for a Buick, but I can see how this car is great competition for the Avalon, and Montego/500. I saw where some said this is compettition for the Nissan Maxima. Yeah sure. The Maxima is driven by 20-40 year olds not 65 years olds.

janeandwaldo · April 2006

Get a grip that is such a closed minded thing to say. I am 39 years old and have driven a 91 LeSabre bought it leftover in 1991 at the age of 24 years old. I got 212 thousand miles out of this car with no major repairs aside from a front axle. That was after getting in a major front end accident. I bought a 1995 LeSabre back in 1998 but my wife got hit by some kid in a Subaru back in 2001 and totaled the car. Luckily she was fine. I bought a 1997 Limited LeSabre to replace it and I now have 165 thousand on my 1997 and still running like a champ.

Now I just went and bought a 2006 Lucerne CXL V8. I will tell you what I will take on your Maxima anyday of the week in quality or performance. My sister had a 1988 Maxima and went through 3 transmissions in the course of 150 thousand miles. She finally got sick of them and her and her husband swear by Audi now. I am now 39 years old and I love my Lucerne and my Lesabre and I am not 65. Get your head out of the sand and you just might be surprised.

imidazol97 · April 2006

The age of leSabre drivers keeps going down. I see Park Avenues and leSabres being driven by younger and younger folks, especially the pre99 models. They are recognized as a dependable used car purchase.

tf712 · April 2006

Been lurking on this forum since the beginning. I'm 44 and a 3rd generation Buick owner buying from the same dealership my grandfather went to. I've owned a '71 Electra 225 Limited (passed down from my dad), '81 Park Ave Diesel (passed down from my dad and yes diesel!), 86 Park Ave (passed down from my dad), '94 Park Ave (bought new from my dad's inheretence) and currently have a '02 Park Ave Ultra. All of these cars had high mileage and lasted. My '94 I gave to a friend of mine with 205,000 miles and she now has 227,000. These cars are built to last and that's what I'm looking for.

I told myself I was going to keep the '02 for several more years, but, everytime I go past the dealership my will power gets weaker. Damn you Buick! Waiting till the year end close outs. Hope I can still get the CXL in Opal White.

pmerk28 · April 2006

janeandwaldo:

I think you read into my post wrong. I am aware that Buick is probably the most dependable Domestic make you can buy and it's JD power surveys top even Toyota. I was referring to the image a Maxima projects where I live ( L. Island, NY) as compared to Buick. Maxima is a sporty, performance sedan with aggressive looks that a younger crowd buys. Buicks around here a driven by 65 year olds. Not ironically I just read a review in which it stated that the average Buick buyer is 65 years old. There is nothing wrong with that, my grandparents have a heck of lot more money to spend than most 33 years olds like myself. Maxima vs a Lucerne doesn't make much sense to me because the demographics are totally different. I do remember in High School (87-91) some kids driving Buicks but that was when they had the Regal/Grand National.

That being said I will be going to a GM dealer soon to check out the Lucerne in person. My wife loves the Avalon ( and all Toyotas)but to be honest I haven't seen anyone under 60 driving an Avalon either :shades: Plus I've heard the Avalon has a marshmallow ride.

I've owned a Mercury before ( Mountaineer) and had no problems but I i'm not loving the Montego. The Buick interests me because of the reputation of quality they have. The 3800 V-6 and the Northstar are two of the most reliable tried and true powerplants on the market today. Plus, the reviews I've read were very very good on Lucerne. I'll report back my impressions.

62vetteefp · April 2006

Nothing at all wrong IF Buicks average age stayed at 65 for the next 100 years and kept their profitable volume. Issue was that every year the average age kept going up one year so that in 20 years the average would have been 85!! Not a good thing. They did a great job at engineering great cars for the older set. Too great of a job.
That is why Buick quit designing cars for old folks. Rendezvous average age is around 52. Do not know the age of LaCrosse but probably around 60 or so. Once all the old LeSabres and Parks and Centurys are gone ( in last years data) and with the new Lucerne I think we will see the 2006 average age dropping significantly. With the Enclave it will probably go below 55 in 2007. (Remember average age of all buyers in US is about 45, Camry is 52)

jef4 · April 2006

:confuse: You are definitely right about demographics. I am from Pittsburgh and I see a lot of Buicks as well as other GM cars. I recently went on vacation to Williamsburg and Wilmington, NC and since I will be buying a Lucerne I was curious to see how many I saw. I rarely saw a
Buick (2 in three days) or any American car. I kid you not. I saw whole parking lots with foreign made cars. The further North I went the more American cars I saw. So I guess if I was living in Williamsburg or even L. Island I wouldn't buy a Buick either.

imidazol97 · April 2006

Hey, where do you get this data on average age. That's interesting. What's the Accord buyer's age compared to 10 years ago on the earlier model style?

62vetteefp · April 2006

I used to have access to this data but no longer. Now I just google it and usually find the data from a reliable source.

m1miata · April 2006

Why would anyone name a car the Enclave. Rather strange, and really doesn't roll off the tongue well at all.

Wonder what people actually get in the way of gas mileage with the V8 Lucerne. Gas is now $3.50 for premium in CA, and the regular gas should be up to that level in a couple weeks. The actual difference between the car which gets say 30 Hwy, and one which gets 24 MPG is about $750 per yr. if you drive 15K miles. So if one values the power vs. the gas savings on the smaller V6 or i4 engine at the couple bucks or so a day as worth it, then the car continues to sell in V8. The car is seen as a premium model, so thus those buying may not care too much; having the bucks to pay. That said, there is this panic which usually sets in, like it did in the 70's where big cars sold on the cheap. Used Olds and Cadillacs got really cheap. Actually great deals at the time. Well, unless you drove a lot and paid those horrible - real money- prices back when. And the 55 MPH speed limit - horrible; simply a nightmare.

Would a V6 really be that much better gas wise than the V8? I bet in real world driving, they are pretty close.
-Loren

lzc · May 2006

You've exaggerated the yearly gas cost difference for the two cars. At $3/gas it's about $375; at $3.50 it's $437, assuming a 6 mpg difference.

But, according to the Feds, there's only a 2 mpg difference between the Buick V6 and V8 engines. So, the real-world extra cost is about one-third the above numbers.

imidazol97 · May 2006

Without looking up the numbers-- I'd predict a different pair to compare. The V6 probably will get 22 in local short trips with commutes less than 10 miles each way. The V8 probably 18. This is suburban/rural type driving with stop signs or lights every 1/2-1 miles for trips to the grocery, Office Depot, Lowes, etc.

IF the person is a "more exuberant driver" from signs and lights than I am that V6 mileage might drop a couple more for the luCerne and get closer to the V8.

If the driving involves longer commutes and lots of trips on open road those averages will be more like M1's comparison. But my point is the V6 is great on highway mileage and does closer to the 20 or 19 rating for city/suburban. My suburban driving is 26 roughly from the DIC; my wife's short trips tend to clock in at 23-22. Guess who drives gently?

janeandwaldo · May 2006

Hey sorry I jumped on you. My Lucerne is so new and I love it so much I am too quick to defend. Of course I have been driving Buicks since 91 and as long as they stay as reliable as they have been for me I will never go with another car. I had an 88 Mercury Cougar with a 5.0 before my 91 Buick but I'll tell you. My Cougar went through 3 engines and a transmission before 75,000 miles. The engine was replaced each time because of major engine knock. Transmission blew overdrive going down the highway. I bought my 91 LeSabre and I'll tell you that six cylinder would run circles around that 5.0 Cougar. After getting 212000 miles with no major issues I was sold on another LeSabre.

Good luck with your search hope you find what fits you. Buick drivers are getting younger and younger and this Lucerne sure is going to help!!! Took a Mercedes down the highway with my wife's car the other night. He was riding my butt so I stepped on it and left him in the dust.

sls002 · May 2006

While I do not have a Lucerne, my 2002 Seville LS has the same powertrain, the 275 hp V8 with 4T80 transmission and 3.11:1 axle ratio. I get about 29 MPG on long trips where I limit my top speed to 70 MPH. In local driving, where I live about 10 miles from anywhere worth driving to (like the grocery store), I am getting about 23 to 25 MPG. I keep the A/C compressor shut down except for a short use to keep the seals lubed.

m1miata · May 2006

I was simply using 30MPG hwy. cars in general as a V6 figure, not the Lucerne, and based it on $3.50 a gallon gas, which is not only possible, it is here now in California. Anyway, the crux is, there is little difference per year, so buy the V8. Unfortunately people freak-out with higher gas prices and tend to start avoiding anything large. Probably GMs strongest point is decent gas mileage in larger cars.

If I decide in a year or two to get a luxo car instead of a sporty fun car, then this one may indeed be on the list to buy - used.
It looks pretty tight and the interior is classy enough. And V8 power again after all these years without it, would be cool. Last V8 I owned was the Mustang 289 V8, sold in 1973.
-Loren

rake2 · May 2006

I've gotten nowhere near that in 7000 miles of driving. Around town, I average 16 to 17. Best road trip I've had was about 23.

sls002 · May 2006

Everyones driving habits are different. Long trip mileage is probably the best measure, but again, speeding down the interstate at 5 MPH over the limit will result in more fuel consumption than loafing along at 5 MPH under the speed limit.

When I was living in town, driving to and from work (about 6 miles each way) resulted in about 20 MPG from various cars. The 3800's in my Buicks (86 Electra, 90 Riviera, 91 Reatta, 95 Riviera) got about that as did the 98 Aurora. The Seville was getting that until I moved out of town. Winter was worse and summer better. The Aurora on a long trip with cruising at or below 70 MPH also averaged around 29 MPG.

alston28 · May 2006

Recently sold my 1987 Park Avenue to a young man in college. He seemed thrilled with it.

Buick Lucerne

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