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Buick Lucerne

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Comments

  • bruneau1bruneau1 Member Posts: 468
    Needs to be faster? What for? Count off a half second or even a second and see if you think that will make a perceptible difference if floored to reach 60. I think some of us have become obsessed with meaningless 0-60 acceleration numbers. Now if the difference were above 3 seconds, then we might have room to complain. What really counts is how the car drives and accelerates in the real world. Who floors it and holds it to reach 60?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,122
    Right on.

    It's the torque that counts for most of us unless you're driving a manual and downshifting at 5000 rpm to take a corner at 35 mph and accelerate out of the hot corner.

    It's how the motor with its torque matches the gearing in the transmission, 3, 4, 5, or whatever speeds it has that makes the car feel strong and good and always in the right gear for you!

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • ericdrivesericdrives Member Posts: 10
    Answering my own question... The upgraded stereo with 6-disc changer does have RDS.

    Went down for a test drive today. Dealer had one CXS and claims there are 4 test drives scheduled for today.

    The "White Gold Flash" paint is cool but I'm too cheap to pay $1000 for paint. Otherwise the car seems great. Mrs. Eric loves it.

    Eric
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,122
    To each his own preference in paint. I like the White Gold flash, but there was any earlier white flash on the Celebration LeSabres that I thought was neater, diamond pearl white maybe... I would and did pay extra for the Crimson Pearl 3 layer paint. Love the red that was on many Cadillacs for some years before 03. Love having a Buick that's not a quiet, calm color. Think the extra cost was $600 when I bought ours.

    As striking as the Lucerne is a few strong colors like BMW uses might get some buyers in for a "noticeable" color.

    However the black with chrome v8 the dealer had in service when I looked was great. I had a black Olds once, but I'd do the frequent cleaning for the black again.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • rake2rake2 Member Posts: 120
    Regarding the colors, the dealer I'm looking at has 2 CXSs in, the white gold and the crimson pearl (red). Think I'm taking the red they have in stock, although the white is nice as well. (If the red is gone by Monday, I'll go with the white one, in all likelihood.) Figure the $500 I save on the red paint will fund a portable nav system.
  • jerrymcshane1jerrymcshane1 Member Posts: 195
    What are they asking for an 06' CSX? How much (%-wise) off of sticker?
  • finfin Member Posts: 594
    Yes.... another request here for actual prices paid. Share the info if you have a minute as anyone reading these boards would like to know what these things actually sell for, plus local taxes, etc....
  • vanman1vanman1 Member Posts: 1,397
    Most GM vehicle radios have it but often it's not mentioned in the literature which makes it confusing if you are looking for it. Our Montnana brochure said nothing but our Montana has it.
  • rake2rake2 Member Posts: 120
    I have a family member who works at the dealer, so I'm getting it at slightly less than invoice. However, another dealer told me they would charge $200 over invoice. Invoice on a CXS with an MSRP of just over $40K is about 37,400.

    There are several websites that will allow you to send in inquiry to several local dealers to try to get pricing, so I'd suggest going that route if you're really interested. That's where I received the quote of 200 over invoice, and they didn't know me at all.
  • ericdrivesericdrives Member Posts: 10
    It's funny you mention the red ("Crimson Pearl") on Cadillacs. That's what I'll be trading in on my new Lucerne. I wonder if it's the same color on the Buick. Some newer Caddy's have a darker red I don't like as much, and I think they still called it Crimson Pearl. The older red is a beautiful color, and I still get compliments. It was a $1000 option in 1996, now it's only $500 on the Buick. But I'm still too cheap to pay for paint (I bought the Caddy used so some other chump paid the $1000 premium).
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    I agree that 0-60 times arent critical for this class of car, but I am saying that being over a second slower than an Avalon inspite of a hp and torque advantage isnt good for the Lucerne in terms of media reviews. Dont think that this issue isnt going to be rehashed everytime the car is reviewed. I think 7.5 seems a little slow because C&D clocked the Bonneville GXP at 6.9secs last year and the car had the same V8 powertrain as the Lucerne. To me this car's only weakness lies in it's powertrain, it is slower and much thirstier than it's most direct competitor. Hopefully its styling and features are enough to compensate for that.
  • jb7227jb7227 Member Posts: 86
    I've had my new CX for about 1 1/2 weeks. Plenty of looks on the road, and not only from current Buick owners! I think it truly is time to rally not only new potential customers to the brand, but existing Buick owners to go to their local Buick store and try it. We have to make this one good for 125-150,000 sales per year, to save Buick. It certainly is worthy of becoming the divisions sales leader, and inherit the LeSabre's title as full-size sales leader for 12+ years running. Everything about this car says quality. I would love Buick to spin another model from the Lucerne which would be bigger - maybe 10-12 inches longer, and wider - put most of the extra length into the trunk & rear seat. Even a Riviera style coupe with styling reminiscent of 1960's era Rivs - that's what could bring Buick back to its old glory. Get rid of the Terrazas and Raniers - and concentrate on building larger, more expressively styled cars. Very few companies grow by shrinking - and Buick is down to 2 (albeit very nice) cars. They need at least 4. And then, my ultimate dream Buick - bring back a full-size station wagon!! We know what they can do with the Lucerne and the LaCrosse. A new Riviera, two door, with the Northstar V8, and a new larger sedan & wagon - now that would be unique. BOTTOM LINE - get your friends and neighbors and relatives to see the Lucerne on the premiere night ( I believe its Dec 13th) and try it!
  • celica8celica8 Member Posts: 42
    I'm with you on the above.

    1. Bring back a full sized station wagon. There is a reason there are so many Roadmaster Estate Wagons still on the road: they are indestructible and have more cargo space than an SUV.

    2. A coupe and a convertible. When is the Velite coming out?
  • larrymitlarrymit Member Posts: 80
    I vote for a new "true" Riviera. A distinctively styled coupe based on the full-size Lucerne. But not a two-door Lucerne. Rivieras have been some of the best-looking cars ever mass-produced. I'd love to be able to replace my 1997 Riv with another worthy of the name.
  • jb7227jb7227 Member Posts: 86
    I agree - a full size, distinctively styled Riviera coupe (not a sedan) - even if it is FWD and based off of the Lucerne, give it an entirely individual exterior and interior. If anyone has cared to look inside the Ford Thunderbird, they would see the identical interior to the LS. Not a bad interior, but not different. I went to a car show recently and there was a 1965 Riv there. Boy, did GM know how to produce a interior that you just knew was special - the top of the line Buick.

    A real small nit pick with my new Lucerne - I wish Buick would go back to the 3-color tri-shield instead of all chrome. Just a thought!
  • finfin Member Posts: 594
    The Lucerne is on my short list for possible purchase next year. Seems like a winner coming out of the gate. But you can't really make a larger model without making it heavier and that's one of the reasons it won't produce acceleration numbers and gas mileage like an Avalon. It's heavy already, at 3800+ lbs. The 0-60 time isn't bad, if you look at the mass to be accelerated.

    The comments here have been generally favorable so far and that's good. This is a new car - with all the new car potential problems - and it seems to be doing well. It will remain on my list, and thanks to all who have posted their Lucerne experience to date.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The Bonneville had a 3.71:1 axle ratio, while the Lucerne gets a 3.11:1. The Avalon has a 5 speed automatic which does give it some advantage.
  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    Actually, I'll put my money where my mouth is: I won't buy a car with OHV and just 4 gears. Enough is enough.
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    “I think 7.5 seems a little slow because C&D clocked the Bonneville GXP at 6.9secs last year and the car had the same V8 powertrain as the Lucerne. To me this car's only weakness lies in it's powertrain, it is slower and much thirstier than it's most direct competitor. Hopefully its styling and features are enough to compensate for that.”

    Bonne GXP vs Lucerne V8.

    As stated above, without any adjustment for tire rolling diameters, the powertrains are not exactly the same.

    3.11 vs 3.70 (3.71?) final drive = almost 20% less torque multiplication in the Lucerne.

    Significant.

    Particularly given this LD8 Northstar’s Torque peak and Torque curve (shape).

    The Grand Prix’s and Impala SS’s 5.3L V8 (as in my GXP) has both more peak torque and a broader \ flatter curve than this LD8 version of the Northstar. The 5.3 generates more Torque than this Northstar at every RPM from 2000 to 5000.

    In fact, according to GM Powertrain, even the newest (normally aspirated, VVT LH2) version of the Northstar, as used in the new RWD STS (peak HP \ TQ = 320 & 315) – this latest and greatest iteration of the Northstar motor also generates ** less ** torque at every RPM from 2000 to 5000 than the (old tech., OHV) 5.3L V8.

    Yes, the Northstar makes a few more HP at peak – and at a higher RPM (DOHC helps here), but torque is vitally important – particularly here, with 4 forward speeds in the automatic trans.

    Please understand: I consider the Northstar (I have driven the new STS with this version of the motor) to be a very good V8 - it is technically sophisticated, expensive to produce and I certainly respect it

    But I believe that it does not generate enough Torque, over a broad enough RPM range to work well with the 4 relatively wide ratios in the 4T80 trans. The Lucerne V8’s published weight is also about 200 pounds more than the Bonne GXP.

    Again, not helping acceleration.

    Cheers,
    - Ray
    Torque Addict . . .
    2022 X3 M40i
  • finfin Member Posts: 594
    Does anyone have any ideas on why the Lucerne is 400 lbs. heavier than an Avalon? Not that much larger and extra insulation isn't very heavy. Comments?..... :confuse:
  • jerrymcshane1jerrymcshane1 Member Posts: 195
    E-mailed 2 dealers regarding their price on a Lucerne. Sticker $38,150. Wanted $37,000. Which I of course LAUGHED AT. You got to be kidding me. Maybe GM needs to go BK.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    The Lucerne is considerably longer than the Avalon and GM cars are always heavier than Toyota/Honda products of similar size. I dont know how Toyota shaves weight, but it is common for their cars to be lighter than you would expect. I think a lot of it has to do with GM's addiction to rigidity, GM platforms are always amongst the heaviest out there. The midsize W cars are about 200 lbs heavier than a V6 Camry or Accord.
  • 2bobp662bobp66 Member Posts: 7
    But I guess 37000 for a v6 avalon is just peachy huh? Get real... :)
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Are Avalon's really that expensive?
  • rake2rake2 Member Posts: 120
    Obviously, I'm still learning about all of the features. Was surprised that the OnStar book indicates that Verizon wireless customers can use their minutes through the hands free set up. I'll have to call them tomorrow to get more info on this, but I was unaware of that arrangement.

    Car is definitely quiet, and the stereo and XM radio sound very good. One person thought the car looked like a Lexus, but we'll see if that becomes a similar response or just someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. I'm definitely happy with the amount of room in the car, but I just can't figure out a way to get a hockey stick in the trunk without putting it through the pass through in the back seat.
  • ericdrivesericdrives Member Posts: 10
    Congratulations on your new car!

    I looked at the OnStar website to try to figure out the Verizon connection. From the web site, it seems you can add the car as a phone on a family plan (min $70/month) and pay the same fee as any other additional phone. Let me know if you learn different.

    Eric
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,122
    That's the impression I had a couple years ago when they started describing the plan in "OnStar" magazine. It might not be available in all areas of the country. Then it was only a part where it could be done. I wouldn't be surprised if Verizon has some punitive charges to make more income out of it. They're my home provider and not an easy company to work with. Poor.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • 2bobp662bobp66 Member Posts: 7
    Comparably equipped they are. they start in the high twenties but loaded go up to 39k...
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I went to Toyotas site and wow they can get expensive. I do have a question. Am I right in seeing that the Avalon only has 5 colors available? I tried their build a car feature to compare to the Lucerne and the color choices were very limited.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    people who say the Lucerne is overpriced are people who believe any given american car should be $3000 cheaper than a comparable import. The Lucerne isnt that expensive when compared to the Avalon or cars like the A6 3.2 or even the smaller Passat 3.6. It's definitely not too expensive when compared to the DTS. The base DTS costs $2K more than a loaded CXS and has less features.
  • jbgrahamjbgraham Member Posts: 34
    The Avalon is available in 9 colors except in Touring form, which offers only 6. I'll take your word for it that the Toyota build-your-own is inaccurate in this regard, but am still waiting for Buick to fix the Lucerne site - charging 1K for paint of any kind - at least in the CXL condition. Did all the web designers miss "paint" day at web school? It is sad that I find it entertaining to check the site each day to see if they have fixed this. Well past 35 days now. I need a new hobby. :)
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    How does the Lucerne replace the LeSabre (being sold for $18,000 or so as recently as last summer) and the Park Avenue (being priced as much as $40,000...although not the real transaction price)?

    Is the size of the car closer to LeSabre or to Park Ave?
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    Oh yeah, one other thing: What's going to happen to all the LeSabre geezers who want a bench seat? LeSabre/Park Avenue were the last of the big bench seat vehicles at GM. People around here...midwest....WANT THAT.
  • jb7227jb7227 Member Posts: 86
    You can get a 40/20/40 bench in the Lucerne CX & CXL - although it's not quite the sofa-comfortable seat that my 2003 Park Ave Ultra had. I have the bench seat option in my new Lucerne CX (cloth seats) and although I wouldnt want to spend an extended amount of time in the center position, it would do for a smaller person for a short trip. I like having the center part of the the floor clear - IMO it makes the car feel more open and larger. I would estimate that about 70% of all Lucernes will have the $250 bench seat option. The bench option also gives you a nice fold down armrest w/storage, as well as another storage compartment under the middle seat and a flip down cupholder. As to your other question about where the Lucerne "fits" - it is positioned as a replacement for both the Park Ave and the LeSabre - it would depend on which model you choose. A decently equipped base model (CX) stickers for around $28K (which is about where a similarly equipped LeSabre priced out) and a full-boat V-8 CXS would be around $39K. The Lucerne is about 203 inches long, which puts it exactly in the middle of the PA and LeS, although the wheelbase at 115" is longer than both. Weight is closer to the Park Ave, as my V6 CX weighs in around 3800 lbs. My 2002 LeSabre Custom was around 3600, and the Park Ave Ultra was around 3900. A V8 Lucerne is around 4000 lbs.
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    Yeah but in the real world, LeSabres were selling for about $18000. Are those buyers going to pay 40% more/$10,000 more for an updated replacement?
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The wheelbase on the Lucerne is the same as the Cadillac DTS. The basic body stucture is the same, although the DTS's body is a bit longer, with a slightly larger trunk. Both bodies have been upgraded from the old Deville/Aurora/Park_Avenue body stucture. I would say that the Lucerne is an upgraded replacement for the Park Avenue and not really a LeSabre at all. However, the low end of the Lucerne is probably near the top end of the LeSabre price range. The LaCrosse is a possible replacement Buick for the lower end LeSabre's, but the Impala might be better.

    I think that the Lucerne/DTS are a short time FWD large sedan product line. I expect both to be replaced in a few years (say 3 to 5) by something new. Probably a RWD, but a lot depends on how the current DTS/Lucerne product line does over the next couple of years.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Think they were the last anywhere. Who else even offers them or the 40/20/40 seats?

    LaCrosse, Lucerne
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    Well, I am not sure about the 40/20/40 seating, but the DTS does offer a bench seat too. I think that the 40/20/40 is really a 40/60 seat with the middle 20 part of the passengers side.
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    So if GM is going to go back to RWD, what the heck was the point of slowly killing the company with the switch to FWD in the first place. OK, I admit I am oversimplifying things, but the truth is that GM's real troubles started in model year 1985 with the switch from the well loved and long aspired to large RWD vehicles to the "kiddie cars" with FWD. Over the years they have improved them greatly, but look how Ford has milked the Town Car/Crown Vic/Gr Marquis for 20+ years now at the expense of folks who always hated GM's 1985 and later FWD "kiddie cars".

    Anyway, I there is some history here I am not clear on. I thought that the current DHS (and the prior 2001-2005 Deville) was still the same basic chassis as the original 1985 "kiddie car" Deville. Are you saying that it's based on the original-before-downsizing Aurora which was a DIFFERENT chassis? Any info here would be helpful.

    And also, again, who is going to spend $28,000 for a Lucerne if they were used to spending $18,000 for a LeSabre? I guess Buick will lose those customers to Impala or elsewhere.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    How we forget out history. We had a huge gas problem back then. Our government put MPG requirements on the cars. The large cars were supposedly dead and we had to go to more efficient smaller FWD cars quick. No hump, lighter weight, etc. Cars also became more boxy for effiency. That is why SUV's became popular. Most folks still wanted the carrying capacity of the old cars and bought them instead. But then, just like today, high gas prices are temporary.

    I really doubt the Lucerne will go RWD in the future, same with the DTS. Too much going for FWD cars. Too many people like the FWD vehicles. The Town Car/Vic/Marquis were mentioned. These cars are only kept around for the fleets-taxi/airport/police, etc. W/O the fleet volume they would have been gone long ago. Hardly any retail sales anymore. When Impala went FWD they got all the fleet business and GM felt it was not profitable enough to sell to the fleets.

    But, do not worry, GM will be coming out with more RWD models for those who want them.

    As far as $18K LeSabres? I guess they will have to try and find something else if they cannot afford the $28K nicer Lucernes. Maybe they can afford a malibu? Impalas start at $22K.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The 95 Aurora/Riviera were on an all new platform, I think called the G platform. This design was intended to bring GM's full size FWD cars up to the standards set by the E-class Mercedes body design. All of the full size cars moved onto this platform, the Park Avenue in 1997, the Seville in 1998 and the rest (Bonneville, LeSabre and Deville) in 2000.

    GM moved the full size cars to FWD as a response to the 1979-1980 oil crisis. They were intended to be 1984 models, and were in the design phase in the early 80's when better fuel economy was a top priority. GM probably went overboard, but at the time (1981), it was a good plan. Ronald Regan was just starting to clean up the mess :P
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I do not know what GM's longer term plans are for the DTS/Lucerne. I doubt that they can build only one of them. I think that the total sales need to run at 200,000 to make production profitable. So, if sales of the DTS+Lucerne fall short, then a RWD replacement might make sense depending on what the large sedan market wants. I would like to see a nice RWD station wagon. But even a nice FWD wagon would be OK. I am thinking a CTS wagon would be good. I think that if the sigma platform could be expanded to include some production for Buick this would be good. However, this would require additional sigma production capacity, and I think that this platform is too expensive for where the Buick prices need to be to sell. What I see as possible is a somewhat less costly platform that could serve as a basis for a large luxury RWD Cadillac sedan and a nice, but cost effective Buick sedan. Some wagons would probably be a good plan too. We do not need a sports sedan on this platform, that is what the sigma platform is about.
  • 2bobp662bobp66 Member Posts: 7
    Hate to burst your bubble but you couldnt buy a lesabre NEW for 18000.. The lowest priced msrp's were about 26-27. Maybe low 20's but certainly not 18000. :)
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    OK, fair enough. The ads I saw here probably had tiny fine print with "cash or trade required of $XXXX dollars" to get to the $18,000 number.

    I actually WENT AND SAW the Lucerne today. Nice, but as you guys point out, just a recycled '95 Aurora.

    And thanks for the GM history lesson. I do find it interesting that Ford kept the large RWD cars long after GM quit. SUV sales, however, didn't take off right as GM shrunk their big cars in 1985, however. The original 1991 Ford Explorer was what started it all.

    For what it's worth, speaking of downsizing, I clearly remember going with my father to the Oldsmobile dealer in the fall of 1976. We we both shocked that the '77 Olds 98 coupe that had just come off the truck was indeed a 98. We thought it was a Cutlass. And we couldn't believe that the public would ever accept such a small vehicle as their flagship vehicle. Cutlass didn't shrink until the following year so for model year 1977 both vehicles were very similar in size. In the end the public loved those 1977 thru 1984 big GM vehicles that lived on with the Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham into the 1990s (I think the original downsized 1977 Caprice bodystyle lived on longer than the rest, too. Not to mention the bulbous, short lived, attempt to update it starting in 1989 or 1990).

    Anyway this trip down GM memory lane is fun. Aspiring to and getting a GM vehicle was truly the Mark of Excellence. It's too bad what it's devolved into. The GM vehicles are "good", but today "good" isn't enough to move metal. "Good" is just a starting point. Now that I see what Lucerne is...just more recycled GM parts bin...I can't imagine that it will be a major winner. Those who like that parts bin will love it, but it's a recycled Aurora from 10 years ago.
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    Oh, one more thing: Am I correct that the 2005 LeSabre, the final year for it...is essentially the same car as the 1986 "original FWD" vehicle? Or was that changed to something else, too, along the way?
  • jbgrahamjbgraham Member Posts: 34
    Since I have carped about it twice here, I feel compelled to announce that the Lucerne web site has been fixed at least with respect to the build-your-buick paint prices.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    "Since I have carped about it twice here, I feel compelled to announce that the Lucerne web site has been fixed at least with respect to the build-your-buick paint prices. "

    Just had to call the right person!
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    It will be quite a stretch to hit 200,000 DTS/Lucernes a year. Hope they can do it though!!

    CTS station wagon exists. Called an SRX.
  • jh1977jh1977 Member Posts: 40
    Can Somebody please explain to me why GM did not add more HP(Maybe at least 230 HP)to the old 3.8 Liter engine currently in the Base 2006 Lucerne. For 2006 the HP in the base Lucerne is 197. Or why didn't GM put the 3.9 Liter engine with 240 HP (Currently in the 2006 Chevy Impala)in the base 2006 Lucerne. For me the V8 engine in the 2006 Lucerne waste a lot of gasoline and I don't need a V8 engine for my driving needs. I Currently have a Buick Lesabre and was thinking about buying the new Lucerne with a V6 engine until I found out the V6 engine in the Base Lucerne has less HP than my Lesabre. I'm considering buying the 2006 Chevy Impala with the 3.9 Liter engine.
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