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Buick Lucerne

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Comments

  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    By all accounts, the 3800 is soon going away...as such, it will not be modified at this late date. As for the V8, don't forget it DOES have displacement on demand...

    And if you buy an Impala, GM will still be pleased...it's all the same company! :)
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    "Can Somebody please explain to me why GM did not add more HP(Maybe at least 230 HP)to the old 3.8 Liter engine currently in the Base 2006 Lucerne. For 2006 the HP in the base Lucerne is 197. Or why didn't GM put the 3.9 Liter engine with 240 HP (Currently in the 2006 Chevy Impala)in the base 2006 Lucerne. For me the V8 engine in the 2006 Lucerne waste a lot of gasoline and I don't need a V8 engine for my driving needs. I Currently have a Buick Lesabre and was thinking about buying the new Lucerne with a V6 engine until I found out the V6 engine in the Base Lucerne has less HP than my Lesabre. I'm considering buying the 2006 Chevy Impala with the 3.9 Liter engine."

    As was said above the 3.8L is gone very soon for a number of reasons so it would make no sense to redesign it for HP. 200 is plenty for everyday driving for most customers. It is only left in the LaCrosse, Grand Prix and Lucerne. I believe it was used in the Buicks because GM gradually ramped up the manufacturing capacity of the new 3.9 engine family and Buick has had a tradition, and customer base, using the 3.8L. To me it should be the last ones to use it of any division. There are a lot of Buick buyers that love the engine.

    As far as less HP than the older one it is the same exact engine except for some noise improvements. In actuality due to the new way of measuring/advertising HP there is probably a true difference of 6HP and that is lost due to the quieter mufflers. Not many will notice the 6HP. Also most will buy the V8 in the Lucerne.

    As far as the Impala, the LaCrosse is available with the 3.6L DOHC with 240HP.
  • roady1roady1 Member Posts: 7
    I agree. You haven't been able to buy a new LeSabre for 18000 for several years. Even with the GM discount this past summer, you couldn't get one that low. When I bought my 95 Roadmaster in 96, you could get one at that price. Talking about RWD, they never should have stopped making the Roadmaster!
  • daryll44daryll44 Member Posts: 307
    I agree...the Roadmaster was a nice throwback to the golden era of GM. And a nicer alternative to the Caprice of that era and a better size than the larger Cadillac Brougham.

    Is Impala on the same platform as Lucerne or LaCrosse?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Impala is the W architecture same as Grand Prix/LaCrosse/Monte Carlo
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    “By all accounts the 3800 is soon going away...as such, it will not be modified at this late date. As for the V8, don't forget it DOES have displacement on demand...”

    Hi John!

    To be clear, since this is the Lucerne thread, the Impala’s (and Grand Prix’s) 5.3L OHV V8 has DoD. The Northstar V8 version available in the Lucerne does not.

    - Ray
    Enjoying DoD . .
    2022 X3 M40i
  • bruneau1bruneau1 Member Posts: 468
    I have owned a few Buicks in the last ten years, so I was interested to see what Buick has done with the Lucerne. I drove the cxs and a middle model with the v-6. It is a very quiet car and seems to be nicely made. The v-8 is more energetic, of course, but it needs a 5-spd- it tends to need prodding on to get the performance. Unfortunately, the alignment was bad and there was a tire balance problem. The magnetic shock absorbers do a good job, but I don't care for the 50 series tires which pick up too many little bumps. The trend toward lower and lower profile tires is one I deplore. The v-6 had a smoother ride under most conditions, but the old 3800, while improved once again, seemed lethargic, especially with only 4 speeds. It too took prodding, only more of it. The rear end is too plain, but I like the front. Nice car, but not for me right now.
  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    I don't either. Apparently, each model has a premium engine. The Lucerne the base is the 3.8 V6 and the premium, the 4.6 V8; the La Crosse, 3.8 V6 and 3.6 V6.

    It's really a pity, for the 3.6 V6 in the La Crosse has all the virtues of the 3.8 V6 (low-end torque) without its vices: it's a smooth engine with a spirited response over its entire RPM range.

    I own a Bonneville '02 with the 3.8 V6 and love it, but it's time for it to go.

    And, no, the 3.9 V6 is too coarse compared to the 3.6 V6. At least on a Buick, IMO.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    So, what did you not understand in my post #401. I said that the LeSabre moved onto the Aurora platform in model year 2000.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The SRX is not a station wagon. It is an SUV built on a car platform, otherwise it is nearly like the trailblazer in size. A CTS wagon would not be more than 60 inches tall, the SRX is 68.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Ahh, the definition of a truck comes up. SRX is considered a truck but so are can most all station wagons.
    There are no rules that define a station wagon to be a car by height or any other dimension. Most rules say if it has a flat load floor it is a truck. Depends on who is making the rules. But the SRX uses the same architecture and suspension as the CTS. Just a bit taller. No one wants to build a vehicle anymore and call it a station wagon. Kiss of death. (unless you are mercedes)
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    My thinking on the sales are that the LeSabre used to sell 114,000+ in 2003 and 2004. The Deville has been sliding, but used to sell near 100,000. Then there were Park Avenue sales in addition, so my thinking is that the Lucerne sales should run over 100,000 and the DTS should recover to something closer to 90,000. However, I think that the deVille sales have dropped because the CTS has taken some away and now the STS will steal more.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    We sold a lot of Buick Fleet in the last years of the LeSabre. The Lucerne will cutting way back (as is all of Buick) and letting Chevrolet have that business. Also the Lucerne is a bit more expensive and fewer sales in that price range. Some say that truck sales will go down and car sales will go up but what will really happen is that the crossovers will take over the truck sales and sedan sales will go down.

    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051209/AUTO01/512090408/1148- /AUTO01

    Hopefully they will sell over 200K!
  • jh1977jh1977 Member Posts: 40
    If the 3800 is going away soon, what will be the replacement engine in the base Lucerne and when will it occur? The V8 engine in the 2006 Lucerne is the Cadillac Northstar Engine, it does not have the displacement on demand.
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    Unfortunately, I think this engine is going to be around at least two more years. Now that doesnt mean it will be in the Lucerne, but my understanding is that the factory that makes these engines wont close until 2007 or 2008. I would hope GM drops the 3.9L in the Lucerne for the 2007 MY and couples that wil a 6 speed auto. I dont think anyone knows whether the 3.6 VVT, 3.5L or 3.9L will replace the 3800 in this car. I know there is a capacity problem with the 3.6 and that is why it is offered in only five vehicles right now. The factory where it is built is being expanded.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The traditional station wagon was made out the sedan body by adding a pillar at the rear of the car and extending the roof to the backend. The wagon was about the same height as the sedan. The SRX is larger than the CTS and is able to handle the northstar V8, while the CTS is not wide enough for that engine I think. The SRX is more of an STS than a CTS. Now I think that a true crossover is something between a wagon and an SUV. Something with a height of about 62 to 64 inches. BMW makes some station wagons in both the 3 and 5 series. They also make SUV's.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    The 3800 should be in production till the end of the 2008 model year. That is three model years for the Lucerne. So, if the Lucerne remains in production for the 2009 model year, then they could drop a V6 model, or put either the 3.9 or a 3.6 DOHC engine in. A lot has to depend on how the Lucerne does for sales over the next couple of years. I should point out that there are two 3.6 engines, the LaCrosse version with only 225 lb-ft of torque and the CTS version with 250 lb-ft of torque. The difference seems to be in the intake manifold, which is variable on the CTS.
  • sv7887sv7887 Member Posts: 351
    Hi Everyone,
    Judging from the Perfect Rating Lucerne owners have given the car, it seems that people so far are happy with it. Any owners out there that want to share their experiences thus far?
    I was reading JD Power's press release on Customer Loyalty. Buick was only at 41.8% Retention. The industry average was close to 50%. I find that rather unusual considering Buick's strong Quality scores.

    One theory of mine is that GM uses "blowout" sales to move their cars. This would lead consumers to buy solely on Price. Such consumers are normally not loyal to the "Value" product and have a high propensity to defect from the brand when the opportunity arises.

    I think GM is addressing this problem with a better product. The Lucerne is not only a good value, but it is a car of substance. I'm hoping a 6 speed Auto will come out soon. A Northstar with a 6 speed ought to deliver some serious performance.

    SV
  • bunoybunoy Member Posts: 7
    Greetings All !

    In the market for a new car, 35k or under. I looked at ES330, but apparently the model has transmission problems not addressed by Lexus. Also looked at CTS, but they have diffrential problems not yet solved.
    Being that the Lucerne is based on the DTS, and from GM parts bin as per one post....can we disregard 1st year model problems?? and have good reliability? I know no car is perfect, but I would like mine to last at least 10 years without major repairs.

    Also has anyone driven the v6 and felt this from Edmunds review:
    "Extra power aside, the main reason to get a V8 Lucerne is because the steering feels wobbly on-center in V6 models, sullying an otherwise enjoyable driving experience."

    Never thought I would consider a Buick but the Lucerne is nice.
  • zen2zen2 Member Posts: 226
    That is ridiculous.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    As you probably read later in the thread the website was incorrect. It has been corrected.
  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    Production capacity of the 3.6 V6 is probably the answer to why so few cars have it. BTW, isn't it made in the US and in Australia?

    The 3.5 V6 is dead, dead, dead, unfortunately. I drive an Intrigue with it and it does have its virtues. But the 3.6 V6 delivers more power over a wider range.

    I haven't driven the 3.9 V6 yet and, although its valve phasing is promising, it doesn't look the same on paper as the 3.6 V6, at least as far as torque curves go.
  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    The 3.6 used by Buick has an almost flat torque curve and the one used by Cadillac, a sportier curve (click on the respective "PL" here).
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,122
    Links don't work for me.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    Try clicking on the respective "PL" here.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    haven't driven the 3.9 V6 yet and, although its valve phasing is promising, it doesn't look the same on paper as the 3.6 V6, at least as far as torque curves go.

    Also as far as cost and price!!
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    May have to turn off your pop up blocker.
  • evandroevandro Member Posts: 1,108
    Also as far as cost and price!

    Very true. Then again, it's a North of $30000 car and the competition in the same price range have engines as sophisticated as the 3.6 V6.

    Yet, I think that the 3.6 V6 wins over them because it can run on regular, unlike most of the competition.
  • gorphilgorphil Member Posts: 27
    I drove a Lucerne CXL V6 last friday and noted excellent acceleration from a standing stop compared to my 05 Allure CXL with the same powertrain and gearing. The Allure is somewhat sluggish from a standing stop. My initial reaction was that the first gear ratio must have been changed; however, it is the same as the Allure.
    I also noted excessive engine noise when starting from a standing stop, much more than my Allure; however, this seemed to improve as the engine warmed up.
    Otherwise the car is very smooth, quiet and comfortable.
    Gord.
  • rake2rake2 Member Posts: 120
    One little typo and you jump down my bakc. lol
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Actually I cannot blame you. A number of press releases for the LaCrosse had the same error.
  • rake2rake2 Member Posts: 120
    Yeah, but I actually own one. I've already had a few people come up to me out of the blue to comment how much they like the car. Went w/ the red w/ the cashmere interior, like the one they use in many of the pics.
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I want to repeat that my 29 MPG was real world driving, at highway speeds of up to 70 MPH, where the speed limit was 70 or more. My SLS will cruise 70 at under 2000 RPM's in overdrive. The FWD Seville 4T80 transmission has an overdrive ratio of 0.68 for all FWD northstar engines. The EPA rating for the SLS has been 26 highway. This long highway trip was through Montana to Washington and then down the West Coast to California, back through Neveda, Utah and Wyoming. Sight seeing Mt. ST. Helens, Crator lake and other places.

    For the 1996 STS and SLS, Cadillac claimed that the 0-60 performance was about 7.3 seconds for the STS and 7.8 seconds for the SLS. About a half second difference. I think that the car magazines were able to do better than Cadillac's published numbers. The current STS (RWD with a new VVT northstar) does 0-60 in less than 6 seconds, even with the 2.73:1 axle ratio.
  • splatsterhoundsplatsterhound Member Posts: 149
    I know the Lucerne is just getting out there on the roads...I'd love to hear other owners give their impressions of how this thing drives, esp. compared to the old Park Ave. or LeSabre or the Avalon....

    And since it's snowing like hell here, how does the thing handle the snow?
  • sls002sls002 Member Posts: 2,788
    I was trying to explain to Ray how the top speed of the car depends on the final drive ratio given a particular engine. If the final drive ratio is too high (numerically - say 4:1), then the engine will peak or reach the red line at a lower speed than need be. A lower final ratio will allow the engine to run slower and the top speed will be higher. However, with too low a ratio, the engine will not develop enough power to reach top speed, although perhaps a lower transmission gear would permit a higher speed. The top legal speed in the US is about 75 MPH, so axle ratios that provide better fuel economy are the better choice.

    Hopefully the Lucerne will sell well, but I hope that Buick's future does not depend on it, as I think the Lucerne's future is short.
  • finfin Member Posts: 594
    After reading all the recent posts, wonder why GM didn't just put the Caddy STS combo in the Lucerne and call it a car. There is reasonable power, gas mileage, data on repairs and failures in real life driving, familiarity with the tech people...everything. Seems like a great chance to use proven success in a new model.

    The car remains on my list of possibilities, even saw one today -silver- driving down the street. Nice looking, you bet. :)
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    I think everyone is in agreement that a new V6 is needed, but it looks like that may not happen for a while. Hopefully a new tranny will be installed for 2007. I am hopeful that the FM/Ford 6 speed will be used in cars other than the Aura next year. The V8 CXL is really the best overall buy if you can live with the mileage. Unfortunately for the Lucerne, I think that GM was trying not to equip the car in such a way that it would overshadow the CTS and DTS. The Lucerne is already better equipped than the smaller CTS and the CTS only holds an advantage in powertrain, RWD layout and availability of HID lights. The Lucerne is bigger, has more exclusive features, has a better interior and is cheaper than a Loaded CTS. If they give the Lucerne a 3.6V6 and six speed auto it will really make the CTS look like a rip off.
  • exalteddragon1exalteddragon1 Member Posts: 729
    the evil executive. The union (partially because the executives let them through) is now too powerful and GM is too afraid to deal with them, so legacy costs are rising despite falling market share and GM's costs mean that even if they have a good design (Lucerne) they cannot afford to put in good features (3.6L 255hp v6) at a good price (base price).

    Toyota and honda do not suffer these problems, you guys should check out how toyota and honda have fought of the UAW from there American plants. Its a loose-loose situation for GM, unless they can either crush the union, or get it to work with them they are dead. If GM magically gains market share and is profitable, at the next contract talks GM will have to increase salary and pension expenses for the workers and honda and toyota will be at there thoats again!

    There needs to be a seriouse change in detroit or its all over.

    The lucern is such a great design, IMO. I have minor complains, like the rear lights make it look like a smaller car than it is (too wide probably) and the interrior could use some wood on the shifter and around the window switches, and still they could add HID lights, but otherwise it is so beautiful. It has many great features and i bet its really roomy.

    GM does have some great cars in the works, they just need to get there costs down. Sadly, because the union is not willing to budge (the health care consessions are more than great, but for the reasons above it may be short lived), GM will have to move jobs overseas to get back into profitability.

    People need to realise there are more important things out there than Ego, like jobs.
  • jh1977jh1977 Member Posts: 40
    Your message is good. GM should take its Unions to Court to change the contracts if the union contracts are too expensive and are hurting GM financially. Several airlines took their unions to court to cut expenses. What I disagree with is GM blaming the unions for its financial troubles. I blame GM's management for agreeing to bad unions contracts, mismanagement of the corporation, bloated and unnecessary expenses which have damaged GM's reputation as one of the great blue chip corporations of the world.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    a. The way the airlines took the unions to court is called....bankruptcy. Surely you aren't wishing that GM file bankruptcy? That is one sure way to lose many of its remaining loyal customers.

    b. That wood around the shifter is yet another thing that GM gets criticized for doing or not doing...if it's there, the company is appealing to the oldster set, if not--they cut costs.

    c. This is a place to talk about the car--Buick Lucerne, not GM's difficulties vs. Honda and Toyota and the political/socio-economic reasons therefor as seen by the various posters...unless I missed something and am badly wrong...
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,122
    /direct/view/.efd9f69/849
    is the discussion for the "Hate GM" Crowd and the "cudda, woulda, shoulda" and the "if only they did this" to voice their opinion. Along with

    /direct/view/.efdc04a/316

    /direct/view/.efd3084/29

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    As of today (Monday 19 Dec 2005) GMBuypower shows that there are 50 CXS Lucernes available within 200 miles of my location (just North of Atlanta) at this time.

    GMBuypower often shows cars in transit and not yet at dealers – but specifying the top of the line CXS to narrow the search shows 8 within 25 miles or so. With various colors and optional equipment.

    If your goal is to drive one and decide if you want to order one or not, it would seem likely that if you are near a good sized metro area, you could find one similarly equipped to test drive.

    OTOH, If you want to buy one with a specific color & equipment combination off the lot at your closest dealer, that may not be possible – today.

    - Ray
    Wondering how many $36 – 40K Lucernes will be dealer lots when the pileline is full . . .
    2022 X3 M40i
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Wondering how many $36 – 40K Lucernes will be dealer lots when the pileline is full

    Lots of them. big seller will be the V8 version. I believe the preponderance will be CXL V8's at around $33,000 (~40%), 15% CXS and 45% for the V6's.
  • vwdriver2vwdriver2 Member Posts: 54
    "...heated and cooled seats, heated windshield washer fluid and a smarter stability control system should be enough to convince them that Buick has moved beyond the age of the Commodore 64."...what an accomplishment!!! Welcome to the 20th, I mean 21st century...
  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,191
    FWIW: As one other "point on the curve" . .

    In a quick ‘Net search, I see 2 published tests of the 2005 Toyota Avalon. Also not exactly “aimed at the sports sedan market”, one could argue.

    C+D and MT both show test numbers of the Avalon in the 6 sec range for 0 - 60, and Quarter Miles times below 15.0 – with a 3.5L V6 – and with EPA estimated 22 \ 31.

    - Ray
    Impressed with these numbers more than the Lucerne's . .
    2022 X3 M40i
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,122
    Some comments from the First Drive for reality sake.

    >But for the first time in a long time, Buick has built a large sedan that will appeal to buyers in their late 30s as readily as it will to those in their early 60s. We liked it and we're decades away from collecting a Social Security check.

    Re the 3800:
    >Acceleration won't overwhelm you, but with 227 pound-feet of torque available at 3,800 rpm, the iron-block 3800 V6, which has been around since knickers were in style, rarely comes up short.

    >Upgraded interior materials and tighter gap tolerances should satisfy buyers on the quality front, he notes, while features like GM's double-overhead-cam Northstar V8, Magnetic Ride Control suspension, dual-depth front airbags, a nine-speaker Harman Kardon stereo, heated and cooled seats, heated windshield washer fluid and a smarter stability control system should be enough to convince them that Buick has moved beyond the age of the Commodore 64.

    Sounds like praise to me. All those high tech gadgets...

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    This was posted in early November, but here's the link for anyone who missed it: First Drive: 2006 Buick Lucerne
  • minarets1minarets1 Member Posts: 49
    "Missing features aside, the 2006 Buick Lucerne is far and away the best car in Buick's lineup. It's roomy, quiet, comfortable and surprisingly entertaining to drive. It's also ready to take on the Avalon."

    sounds pretty positive to me :)
  • jh1977jh1977 Member Posts: 40
    I agree with you 100%. I can't understand why GM did not put the Cadallic STS's 3.6 Liter engine in the Base Lucerne.
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