Toyota Tacoma vs Nissan Frontier

wooddorker · January 2006

I get a kick out of "brand X dealers are better than brand Y dealers" on forums like this.

Car dealerships are independent businesses. A country club friend of my dad's OWNS 22 of them. Some of his are even different from each other, based on market conditions for the particular brand it sells.

Due to factors like topology, weather, and even style, certain brands can sell much better than others in different locales. Check out a Subaru in Florida (if you can even find a dealership), then do the same in Vermont. On the same page, check out Toyota and Nissan trucks in New England, now do the same in an area full of GM or Ford devotees, like certain areas of the Mid-western US.

Just to use Toyota and Nissan as an example, there are good and bad of both within 30 minutes of my home. When I bought my last two trucks (one of each

), quotes were all over the map from different dealerships selling the exact same product.

A relative bought a Prius from a sleazy dealer, I think the folks who sold me my last Tacoma are outstanding. The two dealerships are 20 minutes apart. I can name Nissan dealerships that mimic the Toyota examples.

Independent businesses...

ustazzaf · January 2006

You hit the nail on the head. I am a Toyota loyal customer, and may very well stay that way for a very long time due to the service and reliability I have experienced, byt I have no doubt that Nissan is every (well almost

) bit as good. I grew up in the Midwest (rural ND) and quite frankly a Toyota was simply a novelty. There were a few Toyatas and Datsuns around that we made jokes about (and sheepishly enjoyed the mileage) with. But unless we traveled 250 miles, we saw nothing but the big 3 dealers. I took my 02 Tundra home to my Ford loyal dad, and he could not believe that Toyota had that kind of quality. He still bought Ford last summer though. Old habits are hard to break. I have went out in the world and experienced what is offered, and I tried to be loyal to Ford myself. Found the dealers unable to deal with, and the quality less than acceptable. Got a 96 Tacoma in 01 and I saw the Toyota light. Loved the Tacoma, but it was too small for the family. Got a Tundra Access cab new in 02, and my life changed forever. Made any other vehicle I have ever owned (30+) just not compare. I have seen the problems that the the big 3 have (a very close friend of mine just bought a new Dakota which is in the shop with a major breakdown at 57 miles as of yesterday), but aside from the Ridgeline, I have not heard any bad info from the foreign big 3.

critter1 · January 2006

05 Tacoma EXT. 4x4 TRD 7000 miles $24000 wouldn't budge, 06 Nismo King 4x4 $23350 NEW! Tell me Toy isn't NUTS! Needless to say Toys are off my list as of 06. Why buy used when you can get a real good truck for less. Doesn't make sense to me. This is all recent experinces.
Come summer Critter will be ready to deal on Fronty!

In the Surf Fish'in!

critter1 · January 2006

10-4 Ustazzaf, Too many Salesman don't know their product,they are stupid in some cases. When I retire in a few years I may try selling cars&trucks,rest assured if I do I will know the cars & trucks A-Z. Just makes sense for the customers to make informed choice.

Surf Fish'in

driver56 · January 2006

Hey Critter! That's a no brainer! As far as I'm concerned, the Toy is overpriced and the Fronty is reasonably priced.
I myself am waiting til the 2007 Frontiers arrive before I deal.

ustazzaf · January 2006

05 Tacoma EXT. 4x4 TRD 7000 miles $24000 wouldn't budge, 06 Nismo King 4x4 $23350 NEW! Tell me Toy isn't NUTS! Needless to say Toys are off my list as of 06. Why buy used when you can get a real good truck for less.

That is another bonus of the Toyotas. They hold their value like nothing else. But for the record, I did price the new Nismo and found it to be higher priced new than my new Tacoma TRD. Toyotas may be a little overpriced, and I guess that is why out of every 15 trucks sold, 11 are Tacomas, 3 are Frontiers and 1 is a Ridgeline.

critter1 · January 2006

Fronty will make inroads you can bank on it. If it proves out to be as good,there will be no reason to spend more.
Unless you don't care about bang for the BUCK!

critter1 · January 2006

10-4! is 07 going to change Frontier or is it your time table to buy. I can understand I started last year and didn't make the
jump,but this summer is my time to get new ride. Want the Nismo King 4x4, may settled for SE Model,depend on deal/price. That electronic locker for rear on Nismo is really a killer for offroad use.

wooddorker · January 2006

"05 Tacoma EXT. 4x4 TRD 7000 miles $24000 wouldn't budge, 06 Nismo King 4x4 $23350 NEW! Tell me Toy isn't NUTS! "

Toyota dosen't sell used cars, dealers do.

FWIW, a Edmunds says a silver (I had to pick a color) TRD Access Cab 4x4 with 7000 miles, no tow package, and an automatic (a.k.a. a typical TRD) books out @ $24,100 dealer retail and $25,205 as a certified used car.

Step 5 Review Edmunds.com Pricing Report
Vehicle2005 Toyota Tacoma 4dr Access Cab V6 4WD SB (4.0L 6cyl 6M) True Market Value Pricing
Trade-In Private Party Dealer Retail
National Base Price $17,420 $18,563 $20,468
Optional Equipment $1,979 $2,102 $2,570
Sport Seats $150 $160 $195
Cruise Control $92 $97 $119
Power Windows $159 $169 $207
Power Exterior Mirrors $92 $97 $119
Daytime Running Lights $24 $25 $31
Manual Horizontal Sliding Rear Window $97 $103 $126
Alloy Wheels $594 $632 $772
Privacy Glass $50 $53 $65
5-Speed Automatic Transmission $519 $552 $674
Fog Lights $50 $53 $65
Limited Slip Differential (Rear) $52 $55 $67
17 Inch Wheels $50 $53 $65
Audio Steering Wheel Controls $50 $53 $65
Color Adjustment
Silver $62 $66 $73
Regional Adjustment
for Zip Code 06457 $-18 $-19 $-21
Mileage Adjustment
7,000 miles $161 $161 $161
Condition Adjustment
Outstanding $742 $753 $849
Total $20,346 $21,626 $24,100

Certified Used Vehicle $25,205

Go figure...

driver56 · January 2006

I imagine Nissan will perform minor tweaks for the 07, maybe another new colour or two, that sort of thing. I'm a patient guy, so I am willing to wait another year or so and I'll probably go for the LE 4x4 - very impressed with that vehicle.

critter1 · January 2006

Got quote for Nismo King 4x4 auto trans of $22,303+ taxes/admin. Thats pretty good price I think. Nismo is equivilent to TRD Tacoma only thousands less.

driver56 · January 2006

That sounds like a heck of a deal Critter! I may be able to purchase that same vehicle here in Canada for approx. $32,000. The Toy would be maybe $3000 more, the last time I checked.

critter1 · January 2006

10-4 We'll see when I go to Dealership,they don't want jerk me around,I'm not nice when you BS waste my time!
Keep you posted!

KCRam · January 2006

The reason the Certified Used price is higher is because of the certification process and warranty involved - no free lunch!

kcram - Pickups Host

ustazzaf · January 2006

I was (well still am) looking for a Sequoia. Can get a new 06 one with 0 miles and a 36K warranty or a used 03 one with 15K on it and a 100K warranty. $10K less and 49K more miles warranty. Doesn't quite make sense to me that they can give a longer warranty on used than new. Can't even get an extended warranty on new that is that good. But you have to pay for it.

toykick · January 2006

Click to see Video

6 lane Intersection jump lol

thegraduate · January 2006

Wow, how idiotic can people get!? All it takes is one car crossing that stretch of road and both drivers would likely be injured/dead!

thegraduate · January 2006

Regarding the comments you made about "REAL" trucks not having VTEC (on the Ridgeline board):

Your Tacoma's Vvt-i is essentially the same as Honda's Vtec, and Nissan's CVTCS (Continuously Variable Valve-Timing). Thing is, Nissan's and Honda's yields more horsepower than Toyota's, without drinking the expensive stuff needed to get that power.

toykick · January 2006

oh really? last time i checked the ridgeline has less torque then HP. that is 250ftlb of torque? right?

as for nissan... you want a cheap product then go for it... you might get 4k rebates etc... but the reality is when you drive off the dealership lot your vehicle already depreciated 3k. ya gotta love nissans resale value...

toykick · January 2006

lol VTEC and VVTI arnt the same...

VVTL-i, which can alter valve lift (and duration) as well as valve timing. This is accomplished differently than Honda's VTEC. Instead of switching between two different cam shafts, there are spacers that are slid between a single cam shaft and the valves. At higher RPM, controlled by the ECU, oil pressure is directed to push the spacers between the camshaft lobes and valves, effectively simulating a much "hotter cam" and creating increased valve lift. When the engine falls in RPM the spacers are pulled out of action and the engine operates more economically

toykick · January 2006

SAE

ridgeline

HP: 247 @ 5750rpm Torque: 245 @ 4500rpm

tacoma

HP: 236 @ 5200 rpm Torque: 266 lb.-ft. @ 4000 rpm

Nissan hasnt yet posted its SAE hp and torque ratings.

driver56 · January 2006

I'm smilin'. The Toy actually feels cheaper to me. And I also believe that the Fronty offers more for less, and that's a good thing. And my experience shows that Nissans hold their value. All new vehicles depreciate rapidly once they are driven off the lot, at least initially, and that is a non issue with me anyhow, because, I hold on to my autos for a good long time. As far as SAE H.P. ratings go, I think Nissans are already quite accurate.

pb2themax · January 2006

Nissan currently rates thier HP at the flywheel. Toyota rates theirs at the wheels, which is what really matters.

toykick · January 2006

hmmm... i would like to see how the frontier does on the dyno vs. a v6 tacoma... it would show how efficient the frontiers drivetrain really is.

thegraduate · January 2006

It's a good thing. I'd be embarassed for Toyota if their engine couldn't match the ratings of one at least half a liter smaller. On regular gas, the ridgeline makes 11 more horsepower than a Tacoma on premium, and only sacrifices 20 lb ft of torque. Seems pretty even until you consider the Tacoma'a 4.0 vs a Honda 3.5, and that the Tacoma is running on premium. All signs say that Toyota should have quite an advantage...but does it really?

critter1 · January 2006

Toykick! Time & miles is only way to know! Frontier vs Tocoma.

Critter in the SURF FISH'in!

woodshop28 · January 2006

"Nissan currently rates thier HP at the flywheel. Toyota rates theirs at the wheels, which is what really matters."

That is a false statement. Do some research.

driver56 · January 2006

If the Taco was rated at the wheels I'm quite sure their H.P. rating would be around the 190 mark on low octane. That means there would still be a 30+ horse differential between the Frontier and the Taco. That said, the Fronty has more heft so consequently could use that extra grit. The bottom line is that these are both powerful middleweights!

2005lekc · January 2006

These trucks are a year old now. It looks like we will have our trucks worn out before this ever gets laid to rest.

Does anybody understand that you are never going to be able to convince the other side you are right and they are wrong?

I happen to have a Frontier, but I could be just as happy with a Tacoma. There are a few of us who are on both sides and the rest will never change their minds.

I don't know why I added this post because it is kind of fun to watch.

OkieScot

toykick · January 2006

look at the tacoma forum... You'll see a few dyno numbers.

torque is well over 260+

dyno numbers vary... depending on elevation and weather.. I would like to see a vs. comparison... both trucks tested at the same time on the same dyno both on regular and high octane...

torque numbers for the frontier arnt any better... frontiers torque numbers are at 284 2 more then the tacoma, The tacoma might get more power for 07. With a torque number of 278 at 3700rpm peaking lower then the frontier... this is SAE ratings, if it were the old ratings like nissan is using to push up sales.. the 07 tacoma would of been rated at over 294ft.lb of torque.

p.s.
The FJ cruiser has the same engine and doesnt require premium

...

toykick · January 2006

I havent been doing the bashing... all the nissan owners and ridgline owners have... i cant let them have all the fun!

if you dont like it then go back to the nissan thread.. and talk about TSBs and recalls.

driver56 · January 2006

Gee Toykick, the Tacoma has certainly had more than their share of TSB's and recalls.

toykick · January 2006

really... go to nissans help page and see 20+ tsbs out for the frontier...

centralcal · January 2006

I would love to see how many the Taco has out, but most of the sites make you pay to see the TSB's for Toyota, Nissan lets everyone see. The early production Taco's had some problems, seems to have died down. Just looked at the most recent issue of consumer reports and they commented how the reliability of the Taco was much less than previous years, where the Frontier was a huge improvement over previous models. Just more fuel for the fire.

driver56 · January 2006

Pretty much minor issues with the Fronty. And where would the respective site be for Tacoma? The info I gathered was from Mycarstats.com and there are a heck of a pile more against The Tacoma...numerous complaints.

driver56 · January 2006

I also read what Consumers wrote recently. They also do not like the ride ( or chassis ) of the Taco. I was a little surprised because the Tacoma has been favoured by C.R. for some time.

toykick · January 2006

lol i've looked at other sites... nhtsa only has 4tsb for the frontier... but surprise you go to nissans webpage and you have a lot of TSBs...

thegraduate · January 2006

I also read what Consumers wrote recently. They also do not like the ride ( or chassis ) of the Taco. I was a little surprised because the Tacoma has been favoured by C.R. for some time.

The experts agree with you. People who drive for a living (at Car and Driver Magazine) cite the Tacoma as having a floppy suspension and sloppy steering, as well as a seating position that puts the driver on the floor. It was placed behind the Nissan Frontier in this test. The Honda Ridgeline came out on top. Sadly, the Americans, once known for their truck-making, came in fourth and fifth with the Dodge Dakota and Chevy Colorado.

toykick · January 2006

yeah sloppy handling because they tested the long bed double cab and it scored higher slalom times then the frontier and ridgeline :P not to mention it wooped their arses 0-60 and the 1/4 mile and hauling 1k pounds of bags in the bed... :surprise:

p.s.

nissan followed dodges lead by having a whole boxed frame... Toyota reinforced the tacomas body and added a prado landcruiser frame which isnt available here in the states... because of that frame any stock tacoma has nice wheel articulation... unlike the frontier which wont flex as much because of its heavy [non-permissible content removed] frame.

driver56 · January 2006

I'm thinking that perhaps we shouldn't be including the Ridgeline in with the other batch simply because the Honda is a different animal altogether. I have to admit that the Ridgeline is technically a pickup truck, but, it does not have the same capabilities as the others that it has been compared to. Sure it's capable, but not for the same reasons.
Boxed framed 4x4's and all wheel drive unit bodies are in different playing fields altogether.

thegraduate · January 2006

I'm thinking that perhaps we shouldn't be including the Ridgeline in with the other batch simply because the Honda is a different animal altogether. I have to admit that the Ridgeline is technically a pickup truck, but, it does not have the same capabilities as the others that it has been compared to. Sure it's capable, but not for the same reasons.
Boxed framed 4x4's and all wheel drive unit bodies are in different playing fields altogether.

This is true, but part of it being different from all the "traditional" trucks is what got it "Truck of the Year". Some people want all the abilities of their car (Lockable trunk without adding a toolbox), roomy interior, carlike ride plus abilities of a truck (towing 5,000lbs, decent size bed for moving big/bulky/dirty items, AWD for those who occasionally venture off-road). For those (at least 50,000 so far) the Ridgeline is the best option. I doubt that those interested in 4-wheeling in their current pickup will look at the ridgeline, and I think that is a fair judgement to make. But, for those who use a truck as their daily driver to work downtown that does double duties as a home-depot hauler in the suburbs, the Ridgeline becomes an attractive choice.

driver56 · January 2006

I concur! For most people, it seems, a true 4x4 is rarely used as such and is more of an image projection. That in itself doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If one spends 99% of their driving time on pavement and wants or needs to occasionally haul stuff then it does make sense to own a pickup like the Ridgeline. That styling though!?!

2005lekc · January 2006

Now Toykick,

Stop and listen to me. I did not accuse anyone of bashing by name. I also said that I do enjoy listening to the flak from both sides.

I like both trucks and most of the guys that own them as well.

OkieScot

critter1 · January 2006

I looked @ them along with Fronty/Taco. They are too much$$$$$ and not quite a truck to my mind. More like SUV with small bed. And good luck finding one below 30K,there maybe some,But I haven't seen one yet. For Surf Fishing running sandy beaches Nissan or Toy much better choice,probably for offroaders too. Just too frilly for me
more of a yuppy truck. AWD not made for hard off road use.

Critter in the SURF FISH'in

badness · January 2006

ALL I can say is that my TSB was FIXED IN A HALF OF DAY AND IT PEEEEEEEEEEERSSSSSSSSSSSS LIKE A CAT NOW,AND ALL I CAN SAY IS OYEAAAAAAAAAA!!!! MANY OF US FRONTY OWNER CAN TELL YOU IT DRIVES LIKE CADDY.

THANKS
BRAD,EAST COAST
NJ.LE CC 4WD.
THANK YOU DE NISSAN .

boone88rr · January 2006

Well I've totally lost interest in this mud-slinging fest but since this is a "New 2005 Toyota Tacoma vs 2005 Nissan Frontier" forum I thought I'd mention the resale prices are out for the 2005 models.

I know that a lot of dealers are using Galves now instead of NADA or Kelley Blue Book. Similar pricing just Galves offers lower trade-in values for all cars and trucks. Galves is also not free like either of the others. Gives dealerships a slight upper hand.

I priced out my truck with some added options (seen at the bottom). I decided to see how the same optioned Frontier faired as well in the past year. The numbers speak for themselves. Thanks Toyota. Flame on!

2005 Nissan Frontier
4dr King Cab SE 4WD SB (4.0L 6cyl 6M)

MSRP: $21,200
Private Party: $19,075 (-2125)
Trade-in: $16,375 (-4825)

2005 Toyota Tacoma
4dr Access Cab V6 4WD SB (4.0L 6cyl 6M)

MSRP: $22,245
Private Party: $21,420 (-825)
Trade-in: $18,775 (-3470)

*** MSRP from Edmunds.com, Base models, Same Configuration
*** PP and Trade-in value from KBB.com, base model packages (Air Conditioning, Power Steering, Tilt Wheel, AM/FM Stereo, Single Compact Disc, Dual Front Air Bags, ABS (4-Wheel))
*** I added a few added extras on both (premium wheels, bed mat, running boards)
*** Both KBB values with 11,200 miles and in excellent condition

driver56 · January 2006

My figures are quite different here in Canada. The initial outlay for a 4x4 LE King Cab ( very well equipped ) compared to a 4x4 SR5 Access Cab ( not as well equipped) was $3000 less - the local Toy dealer will not dicker.
So all things figured, at the end of the day, if one wished to trade or resell after only one year (go figure) I would still be better off having purchased the Fronty. Besides, I would invest the 3 grand in a non-depreciating investment and be even better off!
Furthermore, a one year old used vehicle (to me) is worth approx. 80% of its original price. I don't care what vehicle it is. I don't know how it's been used (or abused). That is why I buy new and hang on to them for years. I know that Toyota vehicles generally depreciate at a slower rate than some, but I don't think that is necessarily appropriate. I certainly do not buy into it.
You believe in your figures, I'll believe in mine.

centralcal · January 2006

You probably paid MSRP, most people who purchased Frontiers pay much closer to invoice. Price them out with TMV on Edmunds if you would like, most people are getting the Frontier for a couple of thousand less than the Taco(especially with rebates), so you are actually showing why it is a better to buy the Frontier. The Frontier seems to be holding its resale value (especially since there have been incentives up to $1500) and still costing less up front. Also, I saved about $3500 from the Taco I would have purchased (still would have had to add leather, and sunroof, so add a couple of grand to that)and have been making close to 10% in the market (wish it was doing better). I wouldn't feel to smug about the resale value

driver56 · January 2006

That was quick! Please don't take any of this personally,
I was just giving my take on it. I did read your post, the figures (from my perspective) look unrealistic. That's all. Toys are more popular, and it's what the market will bear for pricing. I would have to pay more up front for a Tacoma, I would hope to retrieve some of it on the other end.
p.s. See ya' in the funny papers.

boone88rr · January 2006

Hi ya buddy!!!

Actually I paid about $2500 under MSRP. They took a '91 BMW with a blown head gasket as a trade-in for $3000. Gotta love those push, pull or drag sales. The car was worth nothing, I think they got $300 for it in an auction.

I think you are all missing my point. I simply priced out two trucks with the same exact options then found out what type of depreciation each was getting. No matter what the options are or what you paid up front the depreciation value is still the same percentage.

Trade-in value: Nissan worked out to be approx. (-23%) and Toyota came out to be about (-16%).

Do you the rest of the math yourself. I know that I personally paid $200 more than what the truck is worth currently as a trade-in.

I've said my piece. See you next year to compare numbers. Cheers!

P.S. I love you centralcal.

Toyota Tacoma vs Nissan Frontier

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