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Saturn Aura

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Comments

  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    Lexus competes with Caddy and Acura theoretically too.
  • vanman1vanman1 Member Posts: 1,397
    The warranty on the Aura (and all GM cars/trucks) was just bumped up today (also for those who have bought). Add a 5 year/ 100K powertrain and 5 year roadside assistance. Nice addition.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    2007's only
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    I think Saturn will eventually be more upscale than chevy, but they need a full lineup in place first. The Ion is no more upscale than the Cobalt and the Vue isnt really better than the Equinox except for the Honda V6. The Aura starts out more expensive than the Camcord but with options and V6 engines those two are not really cheaper. The Accord is only slightly more expensive than the XR, but the camry is significantly more expensive due to the lack of standard equipment that you pay for in options. The Fusion and Sonata are cheaper than all three of those cars. If you want bang for your buck the Fusion is hard to beat but it's missing quite a few features. Once navigation and AWD become available the Fusion's maximum price should increase quite a bit.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    Road test is now available online. Very positive except for some interior trim and road noise.

    Road test
  • e2helpere2helper Member Posts: 1,002
    So far around 21 MPG but I have a short commute (although mainly expressway) and a lead foot. By comparison I got 18-19 with 06 G6 GTP and about 21-22 with 05 G6 GT. My wife is now getting 26 with same G6 GT and also a short commute with no highway driving (but no lead foot). Who knows what she would get with the XR ;)
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Well, if math works she would get about 25 in the Aura!!!
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Well, if math works she would get about 25 in the Aura and that would be city!!!
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    Toyota does not have premium brand – there is nothing between Toyota and Lexus. I do not want overpay for Lexus but Camry XLE looks exactly like poor-mans Camry. I do not want to own mass production brand like Honda, Toyota or Nissan and they do not offer more distinctive premium brand with more upscale and elegant design, and still having great value.

    For next car I am looking for Mercury/Saturn/Chrysler because of mentioned above reasons. I wouldn’t buy Pontiac/Mazda/Dodge/Scion because these brands are for younger crowd. Unfortunately VW asks unreasonable price for Passat, I would otherwise consider it too.
  • v_dv_d Member Posts: 89
    So why don't you like the Passat, is it because it has a 2.0 engine and not a big V8 or something? I'd say the Passat is well above Camry and Accord.
    btw, did you know that the Passat is fighting the Acura TSX (European Honda Accord) in Europe? And guess what, VW is selling more Passats than Honda sells European Accords.
    That means Passat>TSX. What's the price of the TSX compared with the Passat? Both have 2.0 engine with turbo. Difference... roughly $4k why? Cause Honda is selling the European Accord as a "semi-luxury" car.
    That's why I always say EUROPEANS GET BETTER CARS THAN WE DO... and you know why? Cause we`re so dumb and buy rubbish cars. The European Accord (Acura TSX in NA) is out for 3 years, so should I say WAKE UP AMERICA? Why do you buy a thing called Acura when you could buy the same thing but Honda (that way you wouldn`t have to pay the extra $4 grand)?

    Keep moving. :sick:
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    did you know that the Passat is fighting the Acura TSX (European Honda Accord) in Europe? And guess what, VW is selling more Passats than Honda sells European Accords.

    hate to tell you but I doubt if any japanese cars will ever sell well in Europe. Neither will American or Chinese or whatever. The Europeans will buy european vehicles. Just like the Chinese buy Chinese vehicles and the japanese buy Japanese vehicles. Only in America do we buy cars from other countries (in volume).
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    You are right. In spite of the fact that Japanese cars are more reliable than European cars they have not made significant headway into the Euro market like they have in the US. Here people place a much higher value on cars with foreign labels regardless of where they are built.
  • v_dv_d Member Posts: 89
    hate to tell you but I doubt if any japanese cars will ever sell well in Europe

    The Honda Civic Hatchback is selling very well in Europe, and from what I remember it was CAR OF THE YEAR in many countries across Europe. It's futuristic design is appealing the European buyer (Renault Megane II Hatchback also has a somewhat "strange" but nice design; and now Peugeot & Citroen really have something nice in their lineup... too bad they don't sell anything in US/Canada, and to import it, it's probably out of hand).

    Here people place a much higher value on cars with foreign labels regardless of where they are built.

    Isn't that stupid? MG is going to come in the US soon, and now that it's owned by a Chinese company, I really really doubt I would ever consider buying one, even for free! :D
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Honda may have gotten some awards but they still are a small player in Europe.

    For instance GM and Ford both sold 160,000 cars in Europe while Honda sold 24,000. VW sold 290,000. Even the high end MB sold 67,000.

    But there will be headway into Europe by the Japanese. Just a matter of time.
  • v_dv_d Member Posts: 89
    Honda is on the right track now. Before the new Civic (and European Accord), they didn't have a car that was designed for Europeans taste, now they have and people buy more Hondas.
    GM sells in Europe because of Opel (which has a nice line-up... good job GM for that, Saturn Astra anyone?), and Ford sells in UK more than it does in any other country in Europe. Ford mainly sells Focus' and Mondeo's, and the new S-Max is just AWESOME). Maybe Ford listens and brings the new Focus on the new platform... and not just a facelift. And yeah, GM please bring the Astra PLEASE!

    Guys, one question from me... is the Aura built on the same platform that the Vectra uses? Thx.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    is the Aura built on the same platform that the Vectra uses?

    Yes-Epsilon 1 -G6, Aura, Malibu, Vectra, 9-3, Cadillac BLS

    And Epsilon II will add LaCrosse

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Epsilon_platform
  • ricardoheadricardohead Member Posts: 48
    I lived in Germany a long long time and maybe the germans are a little biased toward the Passat, but when it comes to cars I would say the euros prefer theirs to be homegrown. I saw a fair number of Mazdas on the road though, and Ford and Opel sell well primarily because the models sold there are homegrown, even though the Accords and Avensis's are far better cars.

    The Passat is actually a nice enough car, but the reliability of it is highly suspect and heaven forbid you do have to pay for a repair ... it'll bleed you. However the Japanese cars there often cost as much as the homegrown stuff so they have a tough sell.

    While in Germany I actually liked some Opels but they were built like pure junk. I believe the newer ones are better, but I wouldn't bet 25k on it if I can score a TSX or Accord or Camry or G6 or Mazda6 for the same money or less. And I really like the Aura too ... but with me the verdict is out on it - I won't recommend it to family. Plus the "no dicker" concept goes against my grain, still.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    European Accord (or TSX) does not hold well against Passat and Ford Mondeo. Passat and Mondeo are better cars. American Accord will never sell in Europe. Honda may have better gas engines but everything else is a different story. Important thing in Europe is to have good diesel engines and good chassis - areas where Japanese lack (except of Mazda may be).

    Americans like more cruising than driving. In this aspect Japanese cars may be competitive. But they are too boring to compete with Germans on their turf. Note that Mazda6 is much more popular in Europe than in USA even though it is Japanese car. And besides American have no problems to drive boring and ugly cars. People in Europe have better tastes in almost everything.
  • v_dv_d Member Posts: 89
    People in Europe have better tastes in almost everything.

    true true... and i'm american. I admit, they do have better tastes and yes they do pay more for their cars.
    Btw, who would buy a Passat in America with 105 HP 1.9 TDI diesel? "It's a nice car, but 105HP?... I wanna V8" - they do sell it with a 1.9TDI in Europe, though it's not the same one as we get. Ford Mondeo is really nice. And Mazda doesn't really have a nice diesel (it's said that the Toyota D-4D is the best diesel in Europe).

    About the platform: IT SUCKS! No wonder The aura had such a bad slalom. That platform sucks! Vauxhall/Opel got a nice VXR Vectra that has a nice 2.8 Liter V6 Turbo engine, and while is goes scary fast on the straits, once you try to take a corner, well.... you won't... massive understeer, so massive you can turn the wheel all the way and you won't take the corner... not even in ur dreams.

    btw, did you guys see the French : Peugeot, Citroen and Renault? Best cars not sold in the US. Peugeot&Citroen are striking beautiful (even though most Americans like big "boxish" cars/SUVs). Plus Citroen has tech US doesn't even dream of. Like: "translucent electronic instrument display that is as clear as day even in the brightest daylight or the multi-functional, fixed centred controls steering wheel that ensures that the driver’s airbag always deploys at the correct angle, which is a world first." www.citroen.co.uk; and the C6 has "Armrests that are gently illuminated by fibre-optic lighting. Unique half moon door bins that glide shut. Optional TGV-style seats that tilt at the waist" and hydractive suspension (which makes the car more comfortable than an E-Klasse or BM S5).
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    "And besides American have no problems to drive boring and ugly cars. People in Europe have better tastes in almost everything."

    Something is hitting the fan these last few posts.

    America has the most open and brutal playing field. And our consumers are the most fair mindeded. Cars with flaws won't survive here. Hence, those French cars are far too unreliable to survive in the U.S. market. You think the French are going to buy a Japanese or American car even if it's a hundred times better? That's why their cars can be crap and still sell.

    Europe is hardly a barometer of of what the best cars are with their prejudices.

    The TSX more than hold its own against the Passat in the chassis department. And I suspect the same to be true with the European Accord. And the Accord in Europe is available with a pretty mean diesel engine.

    Don't get me wrong, I love German cars and drive one myself. But to say European cars in general are desirable is absurd. They have many cars that wouldn't survive in our market.

    No denying that Europe (mainly Germany) makes some pretty good road cars though.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    Peagot 405/406 always were considered as cars with sweet chassis - japanese cannot replicate that. Opel always was kind of cheapo car and BTW vectra does not perform well when compared with Passat and Mondeo. Fords main problems are engines and cheap interiors but everything else is excelent. Vectra does not perform well in any area. But in USA it does not matter. Nice interior and powerful engine solves all the problems.

    If people learn about diesel engine equipped cars milage (it is unbelievable) they would dismiss hype about hybrids.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    "Peagot 405/406 always were considered as cars with sweet chassis - japanese cannot replicate that"

    Replicate, probably not. Why would any automaker want to replicate another automaker's chassis? (Oh, I forgot, that's what the Chinese do with GM cars). But not able to design a chassis just as good, please.

    What about a hybrid-diesel? Hmm.
    Or a hybrid-turbo. Have the electric motor do the work until the turbo kicks in.

    Mercedes has come out with a clean burning diesel. Will there be others?

    Honda has hinted they will come out with a clean burning diesel Accord for our market. Honda would make a killing if the next Accord was available with a diesel. Especially if gas keeps going up.
  • lahirilahiri Member Posts: 394
    Vectra? BLS? What are these? Cars?
  • v_dv_d Member Posts: 89
    "Cars with flaws won't survive here"

    what about GM and Ford and... yeah Chrysler? Don't get me wrong, Americans can make a darn good car, but that would be too expensive and no one will buy it, so what's the point.

    Peugeot: Not only the French buy Peugeot's, everyone that likes them buys them, they are really nice to look at, and I have a friend who is german and he has a Peugeot 407. Nice looking car and no problems at all. I went in Spain this summer and my rental car was a 307 HDi with 90HP, the car was brilliant, nice shifting nice interior, nothing broke down, and it got 45mpg at least. And the interior was even nicer than any GM, Ford or Chrysler out there under $35k (the car was 15k Euros so like $21k). I just love European cars because they care more about quality than quantity. We just want it BIG with a HUGE Hemi and who cares about anything else? We can get a brick (BIG brick) put a HUGE Hemi on it, and we call it a... car?

    "Hence, those French cars are far too unreliable to survive in the U.S. market"

    They don't survive not because they're unreliable, but because no one is open-minded enough to try to buy them. Why do you think Honda doesn't sell the Civic Hatch in the US/Canada? No one will buy, so what's the point in bringing them here in the first place?
    Don't you see? VW brought the Rabbit here after almost 3 yrs since it was launched in Europe; GM brought a 5-6 yr old platform from Europe and started building new cars in the US (G6, Aura, Malibu etc); Ford still doesn't bring the new Focus here (too expensive to sell probably... it's a nice looking car and the interior is not bad at all, not even for Europe)... ohh yeah and we still have to buy ABS as an option on most American cars (!).

    "And the Accord in Europe is available with a pretty mean diesel engine"

    Yeah the 2.2CDTi Honda is pretty good at 140HP. Toyota is just a little better: 2.0 D-4D and a healthy 150HP. The VW TDi is close at 140HP from a 2.0 engine (and the Golf GT has a nice 170HP from the same engine; plus the new 1.4TFSI with 170HP). We are way beyond them when it comes to engines.



    My question is: what is happening here, why can't we keep up with the rest?

    BTW... check out www.peugeot.co.uk www.citroen.co.uk www.renault.co.uk www.seat.co.uk (seat is in the VW group)
    those are some really neat cars
  • v_dv_d Member Posts: 89
    Mercedes has come out with a clean burning diesel. Will there be others?

    I hope they will, i just wanna see a Rabbit with a 2.0TDI, what a car(!).
    I don't know about Honda, but I guess that if they are going to bring a diesel they will bring it under Acura due to it's more expensive design. Mercedes is a luxury brand so they can afford to bring a diesel that is nothing but cheap, Honda I don't know.
  • rwisemrwisem Member Posts: 96
    This has been a great discussion. I have a soft spot in my heart for French vehicles having owned two of them, but you do it for love, not practicality.

    Anyway, don't know why this forum has drifted away from the Aura, but I would like to share info with other owners and intenders. I was going to post on my experiments with the XR paddle shifters,but will wait and see if the Aura people come back.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    "I don't know about Honda, but I guess that if they are going to bring a diesel they will bring it under Acura due to it's more expensive design."

    It'll be an Accord if it happens.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    "We just want it BIG with a HUGE Hemi and who cares about anything else? We can get a brick (BIG brick) put a HUGE Hemi on it, and we call it a... car?"

    I hear what you're saying. And don't forget the cup holders for our HUGE soda pops. We're not all like that though. Our market is diverse enough where cars of all kinds can sell. Hatchback are not nearly as popular in our market as they are in Europe. I'll give you that.

    "They don't survive not because they're unreliable, but because no one is open-minded enough to try to buy them."

    Past history suggests they'll have HORRIBLE reliability. That's why they left in the first place.

    "Ford still doesn't bring the new Focus here (too expensive to sell probably... it's a nice looking car and the interior is not bad at all, not even for Europe)... ohh yeah and we still have to buy ABS as an option on most American cars (!)."

    Isn't the Mazda 3 based upon the current Focus in Europe? And ABS is now standard on most cars in our market.

    I personally like high quality, sporty, luxurious small cars. For some reason this side of the Atlantic equates small with cheap. Are big wide open roads have something to do with it I suspect. But those cars can be had in our market.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    "I was going to post on my experiments with the XR paddle shifters,but will wait and see if the Aura people come back"

    Maybe they're just waiting for you to post your experiences?
  • v_dv_d Member Posts: 89
    Isn't the Mazda 3 based upon the current Focus in Europe? And ABS is now standard on most cars in our market

    yes the 3 is based on the E Focus, but it's not THE Focus. Take a look at the G6, 2007 Sentra (SL with CVT and leather no ABS-optional), Mazda 3 GX, Ford Focus and many other still don't have ABS as standard eq.

    Past history suggests they'll have HORRIBLE reliability

    Why then they're going well in Europe? BTW, in Europe when ppl say VW they say "reliabilty", but in the US when you say VW many think of :lemon:. The thing is, Cadillacs and Chryslers brake down in Europe like hell and not in the US(?). Although Opels are not that bad.

    I personally like high quality, sporty, luxurious small cars

    I do too. Closest things you can get here are the GTI, Mazda3 Speed, the A3 and the upcoming C30. We should learn to like small, well-made, well-priced, fuel efficient cars.

    So how was the XR with the floppy paddle?
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    ""Cars with flaws won't survive here"

    what about GM and Ford and... yeah Chrysler? "

    Big 3 are more like on the “death row” than prospering in USA. GM and Ford do better overseas than at home. Something is fatally wrong with American management and marketing if they cannot figure out how to handle their own market which is btw is the most important in the world.

    Aura is a good example. It is considered as an upper scale brand now by GM. Similar to VW. And still GM management thinks it is okay to use flimsy shiny plastics in most visible and touchable places. GM made heroic attempt to put decent DOHC V6 engine in midsize car - finally after long consideration. In Europe they did it last 15 years.

    But again Americans do not care about driving dynamics but they do care about interior because it’s a place where you spend many hours every day. Look how passionately people discuss ugly/numb Toyota Camry on these boards (which is pathetic if not comical).

    Less and less people want to be engineers in USA, manufacturing leaving the country and now even marketing sucks. May be outsource marketing to India? How American industry is going to survive? Service only, like IBM now?
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    "But again Americans do not care about driving dynamics but they do care about interior..."

    I would feel better if you would say most Americans.

    But they do care about driving dynamics, they want a nice soft ride. Perhaps we need to design are roads to last longer so they're not so punishing.
  • stan1911stan1911 Member Posts: 12
    I've always had hopes for Saturn and GM. In 1986 I worked at Spring Hill for the construction management company overseeing the work as the soil was being excavated down to the limestone base, drilled and shot to form a level pad onto which the plant was built. Saturn was the first GM plant I worked on, and have been in auto plants assisting retooling efforts ever since. That doesn’t make me an expert on autos anymore than standing in a garage makes me a car. But Saturn was my first auto plant.
    I've see the hundreds of millions of dollars it takes to change over an auto plant, usually gutting an existing plant before installing new equipment. The plant production workers were on leave and still getting paid, which is one reason we hurried every chance we got.
    Parts suppliers such as those furnishing instrument panels, door panels, seats and consoles, etc are being squeezed to drop their prices. Some vendors are brought into the picture as the product is being designed and work with the major manufacturers. The pressure to cut costs is enormous. Under those conditions, I can see why interiors, which has been a long time weakspot for GM, has been an easy place to cut costs, until now. I saw the Aura at the Cleveland Auto Show earlier this year and thought this is a step in the right direction. But only the first step. I’m not immediately in the market to replace my 97 528i, but feel there are many new products heading for market in the next few years that just might make import fans (such as myself) also include the old time domestic makers on their consideration list. I intend to keep an eye on the Aura and possibly take one for a spin this year.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    Saturn Sky has a damn good interior. At least I did not notice any flaws sitting in it. And did not like how Solstice was executed. Sky has very strong design overal, though I do not know how it drives. Only Sky I saw in dealership had a huge mark-up ($30K even though it had base engine). They were ready to sell it, but thank you, I can wait. It is a one sweet looking car. I would consider it as a personal toy car if I like how it drives.
  • stan1911stan1911 Member Posts: 12
    I got a chance to see a Soltice up close. Area dealers often bring new cars into the plant and put them on display. The Saturn Sky has not made it to the plant display floor space yet. My Z3 is probably a bit tighter in interior space but the curvy lines of the Solstice were impressive. I like the lines of the Sky even more but unfortunately, with the top retracted, it has about enough room for 3 loaves of bread. I assume the Sky has the same trunk space as the Solstice. Since this is an Aura forum, I'll try to stay on topic and add that the Aura is generally close in size to my 528i so I looked at it with interest. Actually, it was seeing an Aura at the carshow with the Morocco Brown Leather seating that caught my eye.
    The brown just seems natural, although they are all pigmented finishes. Seems the older I get, it gets a bit harder to adjust to changes, like instrument panel colors. Both my Z3 and 528i have a dull orange/reddish display. The hotsy yellow in the Saturn instrument cluster would seem to be a bit flashy for this old dog.
  • v_dv_d Member Posts: 89
    They made a good job with the Sky because they had to sell it in Europe, which I really doubt they will since it is made in US. Europeans won't buy an US made car ever(!), bad marketing once again. Way to go GM keep it going and we won't miss you.
    Ford did a great job when it joined Peugeot&Citroen (PSA) in Diesel Engine Development, now PSA and Ford, Volvo have the same diesels in Europe (though Volvo has some unique inline 5 diesels).
    MAYBE FORD SEES THIS AND BRINGS THE FOCUS OVER!!!!!

    Why didn't they let the Aura be what it should? A normal Opel Vectra, unchanged and UNTOUCHED! We never had over here a car that is literally the same as the one from the Old Continent (maybe except the Audi's).

    Oh, and something else. We all care about prices right? Then why do we buy cars with big engines when we don't actually need them? For example an A3 in Europe with a 2.0TFSI engine (the same we have over here) starts at 33k Euros ($34k in Canada). But the same car with a 1.6FSI engine is 10k Euros down (that'll be $25k in Canada). That's A LOT OF CASH! They could make the A3 affordable.

    Same with the Aura they could've let a nice 2.0 European gas in it and keep the nice interior the Vectra has (well compared with the Aura). So why not?
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    You are way off base. The lacrosse, Intrigue and Lumina all had DOHC V6s before the Aura had one. The fact that GM was using OHV engines here isnt proof that they were making bad cars in the US. The Grand Prix and regal had 240hp from a supercharged OHV engine back in 1997 when that type of power was unheard of in a $24K sedan. It's not a big deal now, but those cars were fastest in class back then.

    The Aura IS NOT in the same league as the Passat. You keep saying that but the sticker price of the Aura does not support that. The Passat cost about $11k more than a Aura loaded and thus it better have some superior materials. The Aura competes with the 2.0T Passat with few options. I dont doubt that the Passat has better plastics, but if you compare an Aura and Passat with similar price tags the Aura will be faster and better equipped and better looking. The Passat is looking to steal buyers from the TL, 3 series, ES330, etc and it's price and interior quality reflect that. The Aura is playing in a slightly lower league. Do not act like the Aura has a monopoly on shiny plastics. Get in a 6, fusion, Sonota, Altima or Accord.

    I'm pretty sure the Aura (and Outlook) is a sign that American car makers arent dead yet. I fail to understand how you can say things are the same with so many exciting models coming out.
  • vanman1vanman1 Member Posts: 1,397
    Anyone tested a XE and a XR back to back? While I really think I should buy a XR (coming from an Intrigue with a 3.5 Shortstar), but with the price difference I am wondering if the XE would suffice. Nice thing about the XE is you still get all the safety features standard (SABs, ABS ect). I also really like the 5-spoke alloys on the XE, best wheels available on the Aura.
  • 1997montez341997montez34 Member Posts: 202
    I drove both. I was actually more impressed with the XE as a value proposition. I expected the XR to be quick, and it was. But the XE felt very good as well and I think it represents a great value if not loaded with add-on options. One note: the XE is not available with stability control that comes standard on the XR. To me it's not a big deal, but that might be a consideration for you.
  • v_dv_d Member Posts: 89
    yeah and the 5-spoke alloys are optional
  • v_dv_d Member Posts: 89
    I'm pretty sure the Aura (and Outlook) is a sign that American car makers aren't dead yet
    yeah umm... let's see they are dead. Saturn is just a semi-europeanized brand of GM, Aura is an Opel Vectra, Outlook, Sky, and maybe Astra (if..) are all Opels. Therefore all were initial made for the European market. Saturn could revitalize itself if he would bring all Opels over. The small Corsa will fight the Honda Fit, Astra the Rabbit, Aura fights the Jetta (sort of..), Outlook (umm... Ford Edge?).

    Try to think of the US Car Market as a "second-hand" out-dated Market. Check this out: Aura, G6, Malibu etc all have a 5 yr old platform; VW brought the Rabbit/Golf here after 3 yrs; the TDI in the Jetta is more than 6 yrs old; Honda Fit is an European Jazz (3 yrs old); still don't have a NEW FOCUS; Nissan brought the NEW "C" platform developed with Renault after 4 yrs and the list goes on.
    Ford and GM are American brands, then why in hell don't they develop here NEW CHASSIS and designs and then export them?
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    "The Aura IS NOT in the same league as the Passat"

    What is the point then to bring Opels here then? Opel competes with VW in Europe.

    If Saturn does not compete with VW then why they call it Euro-blah-blah division? Isn’t it supposed to stand up against European invasion? If it is another Camry fighter then why do GM needs Chevrolet?
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    The answer to most of your questions is "no". The Vectra may compete with the Passat in Europe due to all of the options it has that bring it up to the Passats level. The Aura is missing many things found on the VEctra and thus the car most likely costs less. Saturn knows people are not going to shell ot $30K+ for their cars. In fact people will barely pay that for a real European VW which is why you dont see many Passat V6s on the road. The Aura may be European in terms of handling and steering, but it does not have many of the luxuruies or tech features found on it's European brother. BTW, no one from GM has ever called Saturn the "Euro blah blah division" as you so eloquently put it. Saturn needs to be able to take on the Asians before it can take on European marques. You have to run before your crawl and all this stuff about Saturn going head to head with VW is pure speculation that has never been supported by Saturn's management. Look at the prices on VW products and then compare them to Saturn, if you can call that a comparison. The Aura is more on the Jetta's level in terms of price than the Passat.
  • v_dv_d Member Posts: 89
    Saturn was developed in order to support the fight against imports (more European imports than Asian ones).
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Saturn was developed in order to support the fight against imports (more European imports than Asian ones).

    I may have misinterpreted but Saturn was formed to fight head to head with the japanese. There charge was to get non domestic Japanese buyers to buy american. It still works today but unfortunately Saturn was told to use their profits to develop their own line of cars. No profits so no new cars.

    GM has decided to make Saturn a viable division and now considers them in the product planning and they get money like every other division.
  • savethelandsavetheland Member Posts: 671
    If Saturn is supposed to fight Asians so what the purpose of Chevrolet? What it is fighting? Ford? But Ford is fighting Japanese too. The whole existence of Chevrolet is a moot point. Or Saturn fights Toyota/Honda and Chevrolet fights Hyundai, Pontiac fight Mazda and Nissan, Buick fights Lexus, Cadillac fights Infinity?

    So it now looks like each GM brand fights different Asian manufacturer. So then Europeans are left alone to conquer American market no resistance offered. It seems like capitulation to me.
  • stan1911stan1911 Member Posts: 12
    Saturn was indeed conceived at the time (late 80's) to compete with the Japanese imports. A big hint was when I saw 3 brand new Hondas :surprise: sitting in the Saturn warehouse on the grounds of the plant while we were building the plant. The floor was painted white and enhanced lighting was hung, typical for critical vehicle inspection. I did not see one European marque there. Chevrolet is the bread and butter division, selling econoboxes like Aveo, to Impala and the one mainstay, Corvette. Chevrolet's existence is far from moot.

    In 2006, the competition is tougher than ever and it seems the old time domestic makers have started to figure out new models with better handling, engines, powertrains and interiors are necessary to keep up with the competition. I welcome they're pulling their collective heads out of their ummm.... sandboxes and finally start to smell the coffee.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    The story here is that this “different kind of company” is now selling
    products with a definite European flavor as part of a broader
    product-sharing strategy between it and Opel. While the Aura rides on the
    same 112.3-in. Epsilon wheelbase as the Pontiac G6 and Malibu Maxx, the
    exterior styling, interior fitments and driving dynamics give the
    impression that it is totally different.

    The detailing is impressive, from the
    larger projector-beam headlamps to the use of chromed accents on the window
    surround, side molding and door handles on the upscale XR model.
    Even the smallest detail is not overlooked, including lips instead of plain
    cutouts over the exhaust tips.

    Inside, the rich look of the Aura concept car has been faithfully executed
    in our test vehicle, which was equipped with the textured two-tone Moroccan
    leather interior. The dash is covered with high-quality, soft-touch
    materials and even the center stack, which is usually done up in matte
    black, has a textured gray finish. The analog instruments have carbon-fiber
    facing in the center, a white background behind the graphics, and lighted
    instrument pointers. The fit and finish are top-notch – even the base XE
    model has the same level of attention to interior detail, but offers up
    cloth seats (with a heat option) instead of the leather.

    The doors and rear decklid close with resounding thunks. This
    carved-from-billet feel to the body is reinforced out on the open road,
    where the cabin is Lexus-quiet, thanks to the use of acoustic laminated
    glass on the front doors and windshield as well as the extensive use of
    silent steel (a steel-and-composite sandwich) in the firewall.

    Aura feels surefooted with nicely controlled body movements over twists and
    turns. The long wheelbase also helps the ride – it’s a nice blend of Euro
    taut with American comfort. The steering is a hydraulic-boosted
    rack-and-pinion system, which has better feel and more precise action than
    the electric boost found in base Malibu and G6 models.

    it does deliver on one of the brand’s founding
    tenets: tremendous value. fully competitive with loaded Toyota Camrys and Honda Accords and
    less than a comparably equipped VW Passat.

    The Aura delivers solid road manners, great looks inside and out and
    tremendous value. As the name implies, it’s the perfect halo car for the
    new Saturn.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I welcome they're pulling their collective heads out of their ummm.... sandboxes and finally start to smell the coffee.

    Ever since Lutz was able to have influence the products have gotten much better. If you work your way back you can see the improvement each time.

    Aura, Aveo, Tahoe/SUV's, Sky/Solstice, Cobalt, DTS/Lucerne, Impala and here is where it starts to get a bit murky since Lutz was there but too late for great influence: G6, LaCrosse.
  • robbiegrobbieg Member Posts: 346
    I admit the aura looks nice in pictures. I think people who buy American cars fall into two categories 1) the people who buy American cars because they are cheaper than a comparable Japanese or Europoean car or 2) the people that only buy American cars. Basically, some people are going to buy the Aura because it is an American car but it will not be a success unless there are enough people who cross shop an Aura with Honda, Toyota, VW, etc. and end up buying an Aura. The only way this is going to happen is if the Aura is significantly cheaper to make up for the perceived, whether it is real or not, inferiority of American Cars. With this in mind, the Aura is by far the best midsize car that GM has put out in years. It is by far better than the Impala, Malibu and G6. However, it probably isn't cheap enough to make many people pass on the latest Camry or Accord.
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