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MazdaSpeed3: Styling Impressions

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  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Rather than try to get the two shafts at exactly the same length, maybe they make the longer shaft slightly thicker so that both shafts twist at the same rate?

    That would be my guess too. I don't belive the shafts in the MPS3 are of equal length so making one thicker would slow it's rate of spin and even out the power delivery. But I'm no engineer so anyone who knows the real deal please stand up! :D

    It makes sense if you think about it though. Take wheel diameters and how increasing/decreasing them changes the way a vehicle behaves. Speedometers need recalibrated, fuel economy chages slightly, etc.
  • seanwms6seanwms6 Member Posts: 121
    Good theories, hopefully to be addressed in the forthcoming major mag reviews.
  • sunilbsunilb Member Posts: 407
    surprised this board is so quiet...

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=116868
  • seanwms6seanwms6 Member Posts: 121
    Here's the skinny on the Nov C&D review. I picked it up at the N.Austin Barnes & Noble thanks to a tip from Rorr.

    Very good review overall, well-written with touches of Top Gear color. For example: "The Verdict: Mazda's minute wagon gets drunk on boost without losing it's balance." Apparently they had a tough time figuring out how to get the best drag strip times. They asked Mazda and Mazda told them to "flat shift through 2nd and 3rd . . . . Don't worry it won't break." Apparently keeping the thing floored while shifting violates C&D's test protocols, and they equate this to dropping a Steinway on the clutch and half-shafts. So I am unclear if they followed this advice or not.

    Everybody was happy with it. The editor who was so worried about torque steer says that Mazda has "shackled the torque steer demon, pretty much. . . . Wow, how do you say GTI in Japanese?" Another says "Apart from [a notchy, vague shifter and having to push a button to remove the key], it's a brilliant little car." Last guy says "The line forms behind me!" I can't believe they added a button you have to push to remove the key. Do they like having customers curse them every time they shut the car off?

    Anyway, for those who are interested the 0-100 mph acceleration breaks down like this:

    0-30 - 2.3
    40 - 3.4
    50 - 4.4
    60 - 5.8
    70 - 7.2
    80 - 9.3
    90 - 11.4
    100 - 14.8
    110 - 17.8
    120 - 21.9

    They list top gear acceleration from 30-50 and 50-70, but I think that's stupid. If you want to go faster drop down a gear or two. I'm surprised they didn't throw it into engine protection mode with all the knock a 6th gear 30-50 roll-on would cause.

    Skidpad - .87g; understeer - minimal; braking 70-0 - 167 ft.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    can't believe they added a button you have to push to remove the key. Do they like having customers curse them every time they shut the car off?

    Actually, it has been there since 2004 for all manual Mazda3's. It is right by your thumb. You can turn the car off, but, the radio will stay on, to turn it the second click, you must push the button under your thumb. It's no big deal. I do it every day...
  • seanwms6seanwms6 Member Posts: 121
    I don't have it on the MS6 and don't miss it.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    You're welcome. ;)

    Did they post a 'street-start' 5-60 run? I like looking at that number as a better indicator of roll-on power; it takes the whole clutch-drop issue out of the picture.
  • seanwms6seanwms6 Member Posts: 121
    Yup, street start is 6.7. I don't how that compares to anything except the BMW 335i in the same issue (5.6). Sure wish I had $45K to spend on one of those. Wait, there's also a figure for the Infiniti M35 (6.3), Saab 9-3 Aero (6.8), and Z4 (6.0). Something wrong with that time. It's almost the same as the 250hp/3800lb Saab?
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "Something wrong with that time. It's almost the same as the 250hp/3800lb Saab?"

    Yeah, seems a little slow. I tried to dig up the comparison test they did back in March between the Civic Si and the GTI. I found the 5-60 for the Civic Si on the C&D website (5-60 in 7.5 seconds) but couldn't find the GTI numbers.

    But my memory tells me the GTI had a sub-7 sec. rolling start time. Which seems awfully quick for a car down by 70+ ftlbs and with slightly more vehicle weight than the Speed3.
  • seanwms6seanwms6 Member Posts: 121
    Somebody was able to dig up the C&D "Everyday Heroes" chart for me. Here are some numbers to compare vs. the MS6, including 5-60 "street start":

    5-60 = 6.9 for the MS6 vs. 6.7 for the MS3;
    30-50 top gear = 12.1 vs. 10.6;
    50-70 top gear = 7.5 vs. 6.8.
    Boy, those top gear numbers really shows what 400lbs will do. Amazing that the MS6 is ahead on the 0-60, 0-100, 1/4 mile. Maybe AWD really makes the difference even well after launch.

    Whoa! Interior sound at idle is 38 dBA for the MS6 vs. 47 for the MS3! I guess that those people who want more sound than the MS6 do not need to worry. Much closer sound levels for full throttle and 70mph cruising.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    I had another thought over lunch (I usually have at least 1 thought per day :blush: ):

    When comparing the various rolling start times (5-60), we need to remember that the Speed3 requires a 2nd-3rd manual upshift while some of some of it's competition can hit 60 in 2nd gear (GTI?). And the GTI (from most of the comparison tests) has a DSG which is really REALLY fast to upshift.

    Of course, this is moot when comparing the Speed3 and Speed6 since they have identical transmissions/gearing.

    Re: the "Everyday Heros" test. Not surprised on the top gear acceleration numbers. Kinda surprised they were that close on the 5-60 run; figured the weight delta would have shown up more there as well.

    Re: interior sound. I don't care that much about sound at idle (besides, isn't 47 still pretty quiet?). And so long as it makes the RIGHT sounds at Speed, I'm a happy camper.

    I wonder what the db readings are for the two cars at their top speeds? :shades:
  • seanwms6seanwms6 Member Posts: 121
    Apparently the Nov MT is out with a MS3/WRX comparo. Anybody seen that one? I don't see anything about it at the MT site.
  • seanwms6seanwms6 Member Posts: 121
    Yeah, baby! MS3 takes it overall in a smackdown with the WRX. Actually, it's very close. They like the WRX better as autocrosser and the MS3 as better on the track, and as a really nice all-arounder that's more of a blast to drive. I can't tell you where it is without incurring the wrath of the mods, but you might do a little google search on other Mazda3 forums for "Mazdaspeed 3 vs WRX".
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Thanks for the headsup. I'm not surprised the WRX would be preferred in autocross (lower speeds, tighter course would favor AWD).

    I wonder what other forum you're referring too.... ;)
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Just to let all potential buyers who are eligible for the S-Plan, Mazda just announced there will be no S-Plan or E-Plan offered for the Mazdaspeed3.
  • seanwms6seanwms6 Member Posts: 121
    Thanks, so much. I'm so happy for you. I think I should get it anyway, since all the *&^%&^ing equity is gone on my MS6.
  • seanwms6seanwms6 Member Posts: 121
    "Just to let all potential buyers who are eligible for the S-Plan, Mazda just announced there will be no S-Plan or E-Plan offered for the Mazdaspeed3." (per Aviboy)

    This may be too broad a statement. Others are saying they have been told no S-Plan just on the first batch, but yes S-Plan on orders for delivery at the end of the year, and still others have been told not until Spring.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    This may be too broad a statement. Others are saying they have been told no S-Plan just on the first batch, but yes S-Plan on orders for delivery at the end of the year, and still others have been told not until Spring

    Not a broad statement. Mazda sent a notice to dealers on Thursday that no S-Plan price will be printed on invoices, and Mazda North American Operations will not offer S-Plan or E-Plan pricing for the 2007 Mazdaspeed3

    Dealers have nothing to do with this.

    If a dealer chooses to discount the vehicle, or sell it to you at invoice, then can, but, walking into a dealer with an S-Plan PIN will do nothing for you, Mazda North American Operations will not accept it.

    All information potential customers were given prior to 9/28/06 about S-Plan or E-Plan has changed.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Anyone read the most recent issue of M/T? Great write up.

    To sum it up, the Mazdaspeed3 handling was superior to the WRX, even though the Mazdaspeed3 is at a AWD Vs. FWD disadvantage.

    The only category that the WRX is better in was 0-60, because of the AWD and locking diff. After 60, the Mazdaspeed3 smokes the WRX.
  • seanwms6seanwms6 Member Posts: 121
    So, I still haven't seen the MNAO bulletin saying "fagettaboutit" for S-Plan on the MS3. But I have seen in the program guidelines (revised 9/20) where it is "restricted" vs. "ineligible". This sounds like it might be in line with what a few people have suggested: not right now, but maybe at the end of the year or next Spring. Anybody who knows what "restricted" means in MNAO speak care to comment?
  • comp386comp386 Member Posts: 56
    I'm looking at my 2007 S-Plan guide and I don't see anything in it about being restricted. It's posted on Ford's AXZ website. Could you let me know where you see it as restricted?
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Could you let me know where you see it as restricted?

    It was a memo sent to Mazda dealers, and is posted on Mazda dealer's intranet.

    This may not be posted on Ford's AXZ website yet. When was it last updated?

    I am looking at it right now, and the Mazdaspeed3 is listed in the "Restricted" column.
  • seanwms6seanwms6 Member Posts: 121
    It's in the dealer's version of the S-Plan guidelines that was faxed to me. My dealer confirmed today, that S-Plan is off the table. Looks like I drop down to a Sport at MSRP.
  • sunilbsunilb Member Posts: 407
    anyone see one of these at their dealership?
  • vshangvshang Member Posts: 2
    I saw one at the local Mitsuwa supermarket last week. I saw the car and thought "That's an interesting color for a Mazda3..." and realized that it was the MS3 in Cosmic Mica blue. This was in Costa Mesa, CA, but the car had Michigan plates, which I thought impressive for a car that must only be days old.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    This was in Costa Mesa, CA, but the car had Michigan plates, which I thought impressive for a car that must only be days old.

    How close is Costa Mesa to Irvine, CA? Right now, Mazda employees are the only ones to drive the Mazdaspeed3, many based out of Irvine, CA, and most are registered in MI, which is where corporate father, Ford, is located.
  • vshangvshang Member Posts: 2
    Ah, that explains it then. Costa Mesa is the next city over from Irvine. How I wish I worked for Mazda now...
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    You should see some of the exciting stuff they have inside the Irving HQ....but of course it's all secret.
  • seanwms6seanwms6 Member Posts: 121
    as an affordable hatchback"

    I don't see a post on this, so here it is. Nov. Automobile:

    "Neither the RX-8 nor the MS6 can keep pace with this young sprinter." Uh-oh, I can already feel the heat of indignation emanating from the respective forums. Times are in line with previous: 5.9 0-60, 14.3 1/4 mi. They really liked it as good compromise between stealthy track car and daily driver. "The MS3 is one of those rare have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too packages capable of entertaining its driver, hauling family or friends, and minding a budget. What it lacks in refinement, it makes up in charisma."
  • seanwms6seanwms6 Member Posts: 121
    A guy in the Dallas area promised to snap and post pix of an MS3 today. I was told by my dealer that that's where they are taken off the train from Long Beach and put on trucks. So they should be on the lots very soon!
  • afroceltafrocelt Member Posts: 5
    Talked to a larger dealer in Appleton, WI last Wed. as my GF bought a CX-7...he said they'd have 1-2 on the lot in 2 weeks. He's giving me a call when they come in :)
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    The boat that has the speed3 for the northeast should be docking in the next day or so....They usually spend a week or two at the port then they ship to dealers. It looks like speed dealers will only get one car each....then it will be a few weeks before we see another one.
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    hey avi.....Are you selling yours at a premium??

    We took an order tonight from a guy who blew out of another dealer near me who wants $5000 over...
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I have 2 deposits on 5 of our incoming Speed3's. Both have been for list.

    Well, It was not me who hit him $5,000 over.

    I'm hoping my first will be in the same shipment as yours, we are pretty close in location. My other 4 do not have VIN's yet, so, I am assuming they are quite a ways away.
  • seanwms6seanwms6 Member Posts: 121
    "We took an order tonight from a guy who blew out of another dealer near me who wants $5000 over...."

    Talk about raising the idiot flag just to see if anyone will salute. $500 over maybe, $1000 over you never know, $5000 over for a souped up (very nicely, mind you) Mazda 3? ROL ... ROL ... Ow! my stomach hurts from laughing so hard. Got to admire the hutzpah, but have not heard of ANYONE on the forums paying more than MSRP. One person said she might cough up a couple hundred more b/c she had been waiting a long to replace her econobox, but the dealer decided they'd stick with MSRP.
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    $5000 over for a souped up ... Mazda 3? ... Ow! my stomach hurts from laughing so hard
    ... I hear you laughing! Difficult to imagine how someone could be looking at a Mazdaspeed6 being discounted several thousand dollars in less than a year and then thinking they have to pay $5K extra for the Mazdaspeed3. It takes all kinds.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    You know what kills me, my Ford store (We have Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Subaru, Mazda) sold the first Shelby GT500 for $45,000 over sticker.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    "...sold the first Shelby GT500 for $45,000 over sticker."

    PLEASE tell me you've got the comma in the wrong place....
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Nope, $45,000 OVER sticker

    MSRP on the Shelby GT500 was around $43,000. It sold for $88K
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    We sold our two ford GT for $200K & $175K so nothing surprises me.....folks who suffer from the must have disease are always my favorite customers.

    OTOH, based on my speed3 sales I could probably get $1000-2000 over if I wanted to hold out. Instead I decided to get them all sold before the first one hit and we accomplished this. Now I don't have to deal with every punk with their hat on backwards looking for test drive.

    These cars are going to trickle over the next 3 months so unless the car is a total flop there won't be many sitting around....
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    We sold our 2 Ford GT's for $200K as well.

    I happen to agree with you on the $1,000 to $2,000 over list, it is possible to do. If I happen to have one not sold on the ground, I will definalty try and get what I can.

    I am seeing that the Mazdaspeed3 is drawing traffic for the Mazdaspeed6 in combination with the current incentives through Mazda. Are you seeing that as well?
  • seanwms6seanwms6 Member Posts: 121
    "MSRP on the Shelby GT500 was around $43,000. It sold for $88K"

    That "must have" must have figured out how to write it off as a business expense.
  • rorrrorr Member Posts: 3,630
    Paying more than DOUBLE what the MSRP is......

    Moronic.

    Totally, completely moronic.

    The car has been out on the road for less than a MONTH and you can buy cars TODAY, that are ON DEALERS LOTS, for $65k (in fact ebay has a red convertible, on the ground, with a 'buy it now' of $65k.

    So, in a month, that car has depreciated by a MINIMUM of $30k.

    I bet you guys LOVE the 'gotta have it FIRST' types....
  • seanwms6seanwms6 Member Posts: 121
    "I happen to agree with you on the $1,000 to $2,000 over list, it is possible to do. If I happen to have one not sold on the ground, I will definalty try and get what I can."

    Well, everything is more expensive in dense population areas like NY/NJ area. You probably can get $1-2K more. Maybe in LA, too. Here, I doubt it. What about the lack of AT in dense traffic areas like yours? I know some guys out in LA were complaining about it.
  • tunerstuners Member Posts: 3
    My Mazda dealer accepted the S: plan last night no questions asked. I wasn't expecting that from what I've been reading so I was pleastently surprised. I would have walked if they trierd to charge over list. I have a VIN # and an delivery date of late November. I live near Philly if that makes any difference.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    That's weird, there is no S Plan on the MS3. I guess they are just doing an invoice deal. Lucky you.
  • tunerstuners Member Posts: 3
    You are correct. Mazda calls it the Z:plan,I think. Ford calls it the S:plan. The dealer asked me for the pin number so they must be trying to use it. My guess is they offered me a little less than what I wanted for my trade in so that is where they will make it up. Overall, I'm happy with the deal so I can't wait till the car arrives.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Actually, it's vice versa. Mazda is S-Plan and Ford is Z-Plan, and Ford also has a few other code plans as well.

    I guess that Mazda dealer did not get the memo that the rest of us dealers got that says "Mazda will not offer S-Plan on the Mazdaspeed3". It has been placed on the "restricted" list.

    As for your trade, if they did not give you what you wanted for it, does not mean they stand to "make up" the profit there. The majority of the time, what a customer wants for their vehicle is not what it is worth in real dollars. But, every scenario is different.

    As I stated before, you are lucky they gave you that deal, however, when they go to submit the "S-Plan" PIN and see that Mazda rejects it, you may find yourself paying more. Be ready to re-negotiate.
  • seanwms6seanwms6 Member Posts: 121
    "My Mazda dealer accepted the S: plan last night no questions asked. I wasn't expecting that from what I've been reading so I was pleastently surprised. I would have walked if they trierd to charge over list. I have a VIN # and an delivery date of late November. I live near Philly if that makes any difference."

    Yeah, the key question is whether the S-Plan PIN will work when the time comes, as you can see from Aviboy's post and posts from other salesmen on other forums. If it doesn't work, maybe you can just offer to pay the S-Plan commission yourself.
  • swatson19dswatson19d Member Posts: 20
    Mazda Dealers,

    Any suggestions on the best way to negotiate an extended warranty with a dealer, if possible, considering I'm willing to pay msrp on the Speed3? I keep my cars 7+ years, and think it would be good to have....
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