Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
MazdaSpeed3: Styling Impressions
This discussion has been closed.
Most popular vehicles
Popular New Cars
- New Acura MDX
- New Acura RDX
- New Audi Q5
- New BMW 3 Series
- New BMW X3
- New Buick Enclave
- New Cadillac Escalade
- New Chevrolet Equinox
- New Chrysler 300
- New Dodge Challenger
- New Ford Edge
- New Ford Escape
- New Ford Expedition
- New Ford Explorer
- New Ford F-150
- New Ford Focus
- New Ford Mustang
- New Honda Accord
- New Honda Civic
- New Honda CR-V
- New Honda Fit
- New Honda Odyssey
- New Honda Pilot
- New Hyundai Elantra
- New Hyundai Santa Fe
- New Hyundai Sonata
- New Hyundai Tucson
- New Jeep Compass
- New Jeep Grand Cherokee
- New Jeep Wrangler
- New Mazda 3
- New Mazda 6
- New Mazda CX-5
- New Nissan Altima
- New Nissan Maxima
- New Nissan Rogue
- New Porsche Cayenne
- New Ram 1500
- New Subaru Crosstrek
- New Subaru Forester
- New Subaru Impreza
- New Subaru Outback
- New Tesla Model S
- New Tesla Model X
- New Toyota 4Runner
- New Toyota Camry
- New Toyota Corolla
- New Toyota Highlander
- New Toyota Prius
- New Toyota RAV4
- New Toyota Sienna
- New Toyota Tacoma
- New Volkswagen Jetta
- New Volvo XC60
- New Volvo XC90
Popular Used Sedans
- Used BMW 5 Series
- Used Chevrolet Impala
- Used Chevrolet Malibu
- Used Chrysler 200
- Used Dodge Charger
- Used Ford Fusion
- Used Ford Taurus
- Used Honda Accord
- Used Honda Civic
- Used Hyundai Elantra
- Used Hyundai Sonata
- Used Tesla Model S
- Used Toyota Camry
- Used Toyota Corolla
- Used Volkswagen Jetta
Popular Used SUVs
- Used Acura MDX
- Used Acura RDX
- Used Ford Edge
- Used Ford Explorer
- Used Honda CR-V
- Used Honda Pilot
- Used Hyundai Santa Fe
- Used Jeep Compass
- Used Lincoln Navigator
- Used Mazda CX-5
- Used Nissan Rogue
- Used Subaru Crosstrek
- Used Subaru Forester
- Used Tesla Model X
- Used Volvo XC90
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
With 220hp, AWD is optional. But Mazda's competitor is more than just Acura (e.g. Subaru & Mitsubishi with their overblown engine and AWD) Besides, Acura doesn't have a turbo boost of power causing chassis twitches. AWD allows that burst of energy to be (potentially) spread to all four corners of the vehicle. With 220hp and only front-wheel drive, Mazda would compare itself to the Dodge Neon SRT-4. Not a good image.
Engineers at Ford have also developed a kit to convert the car to RWD and drop in various Ford V8 engines (google "V8 Focus). Nasty little beast....
"Mazda should go with an I-4 supercharger and turbocharger: the super for power at idle to 3k rpms and the turbo for anything above 3k."
Not too practical if price is a consideration. Besides, with variable vane technology, boost can come on pretty quick.
Why? I've heard mostly good things about the SRT-4 drivetrain; it's the fact that it sits under a Neon which is the problem....
Both units can be smaller, and targeted for a narrower range, playing to the strengths of each. When you just use one, it often ends up being way bigger than needed for use when it isn't in the efficient rev range.
Or something like that. It made a lot of sense when I read it in the magazine!
engines really are ineffiicient in their use of capacity. You they are way bigger than needed most of the time, just so the can handle the need the rare times when you need it.
THink if you could get WOT performance of a Corvette out of a 3 liter V6, that's the general idea.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Meade
But I thought VW is the first company to adopt such technology, not pioneer it? In other words, that setup is available to all (of course, if the "Price Is Right").
BTW - Good article.
I believe the CX7 (or is it now the CX9?) will have the same MZR 2.3 L engine as the Speed6, but detuned to produce 244 HP. Does anyone else see this as a foreshadowing of the engine choice for the Speed3?
Lately when I've googled the Speed3, some of the articles (most dated from early to mid 2005) still suggest that the Speed3 will get the Haldex AWD system. Thoughts? For me personally, I would prefer to save a couple hundred pounds in hardware (and maybe a couple of thousand dollars off of the list price) and go with the FWD set up.
I hope that after this year's auto shows debuting the CX7, we will get some solid specs and a release date on the Speed3.
Happy car hunting,
Greg
PS - We need to figure a mutually agreeable acronym or moniker for Mazda models. Some people write "M3" or "M6" or "MZ6", etc. etc...I can't always tell if we're talking about Bimmers or Mazdas.
I agree, Holmes. It seems that the 2.3L may be multipurposed for several vehicles. How long before Ford or Volvo announce an upgraded (i.e. speed) version of one of their vehicles (how does Nuclear Fusion sound)? Hopefully, the engineers will configure the engine, suspension, etc. to suit the overall character of the specific car. Using the same configuration for both the Mazdaspeed 3 and Mazdaspeed 6 seems inherently wrong to me. Losing several hundred pounds in the transfer to the Mazdaspeed 3 seems correct even if it means foregoing AWD; this is likely one reason that the engine would be detuned to the low 200s. The Acura RSX type S, a 201 hp, 4 cylinder engine, weighs in at 2,848 lbs and uses FWD.
I hope they tune the 2.3L turbo to somewhere around 230 hp/230 ft-lbs, and add a LSD to help the front wheels hook up. This puts the drivetrain right in line with the SRT4, but the sweet interior of the Mazda3 would make it a great car!
Interesting point. Why don't we hear about more cars with Limited Slip Differentials? Are they primarily found on sports cars and higher end vehicles? Are they the poor cousins of AWD? In a recent review of a car (Acura RSX Type S, I believe) the commentator stated "you wouldn't be able to drive at this speed around this part of the track (sharp corner) without the limited slip differential."
BTW the 2006 Mazdaspeed6 is AWD
IF the MSP3 turns out to be FWD with HP in the 220 range, what kind of gas mileage might we expect?
If FoMoCo makes a Fusion SVT at a competitive price, I will certainly take a look! It better have a manual tranny, though.
Is it too much to hope to see the MSP3 at one of this year's auto shows?
Thanks,
Greg
IF the MSP3 turns out to be FWD with HP in the 220 range, what kind of gas mileage might we expect?
I'd expect something in the vicinity of 23 city; 29 highway. Those numbers are midway between the normally aspirated 2.3 manual which is spec'd at 25/32 and the Mazdaspeed6 which is listed at 20/26. I'm assuming the Mazdaspeed3 weighs less than the Mazdaspeed6 but more than the Mazda3.
Is it too much to hope to see the MSP3 at one of this year's auto shows?
I suspect Mazda wants to give the Mazdaspeed6 some time (at least 6 months) to make an impact before revealing the Mazdaspeed3. So a summer/fall 06 unveiling would make sense. Another consideration is that the car will likely be coming from Hiroshima; so waiting for a lull in interest in Mazdaspeed6 would allow Mazda to ramp up use of the facility to produce the Mazdaspeed3. My other hunch is that they will target shows favored by a young crowd (i.e. read tuners) to have it compared to cars like the Civic Si and maybe even the Subaru WRX and Mitsubishi Evo. Tokyo? New York?
It will use a de-tuned version of the MZR 2.3L DISI Turbo. Performance numbers are yet to be announced.
I was in Dallas, TX for the drive event held by Mazda back in November for the Mazdaspeed6. It was there where they said the next Mazdaspeed vehicle will be the 3. However, when the Mazda rep was asked about it having AWD, he said "I would not count on it" Also, it appears that the MS3 will most likely be a 5-door. I'm thinking horse power will be between 220-250.
If they were smart, they would keep the same HP as the MS6, add AWD to the 3, and have it compete with the STi and EVO. But, It's not my call! LOL :P
http://www.mazda.com/publicity/release/200602/0213.html
It will be interesting to see how the Speed3 matches up to the Caliber SRT4--that is some stiff competition. The Caliber already tops the Speed6 with 300 HP (at least in concept form).
Personally, I hope Mazda doesn't overdo the HP and torque. It needs to be liveable after all, and according to the press release, the Speed3 will be a FWD vehicle.
It was interesting to see the front of the Speed3: there was no hood scoop. Maybe Mazda's going to take the same approach with the 3 as with the 6 and just put in a large lower air dam instead of the scoop.
Thanks again, autonomous!
Greg
My primary concern of this first year DC model is reliability. The Mazdaspeed3 appears to have an advantage here: being an offshoot of the Mazda3 and the recent Mazdaspeed6 one could say that the Mazdaspeed3 is a repackaging of a solid car with proven technology. My concern about the Mazdaspeed3 (and MSP6) is how long will these speed editions be in the marketplace. I base this concern on the Mazdaspeed Protege which lasted two years only. Does a short run of a unique model translate into added costs when it comes to services and parts?
You bring up a very good point. Mazdaspeed only does vehicles for 2 years, and then moves on. I know parts are not that cheap at a Mazda parts dept. However, service usually follows that of the regular production model of that vehicle. Example: the Mazdaspeed6 has a very similar service scheduel to that of the regular production Mazda6.
One thing that you can benefit from a limited production vehicle is re-sale value. Since the market will not be flooded with these vehicles, one would think they will hold their value longer.
If the MazdaSpeed6 hits in 5.9, as I've seen in tests, the 300lb lighter MPS, even with FWD, should shave .5 to .75 off that!
It would then be as fast as the old '93 RX-7!
And considerably cheaper! Plus more safety features, can carry 4 people, plus a nice cargo bay!
:shades:
DrFill
Have HP numbers been released for the MazdaSpeed3? The Speed6 and CX7 also use the MZR engine, but with different HP/torque numbers.
If it does have 274 HP like the MS6, then it will be quite the little drag racer.
Greg
DrFill
Also, from the looks of the front end, it seems to have the same front grill as the MS6, which is for the air induction to the under the hood hood-scoop for the intercooler. If you look closely, you will also see a similar bulge in the hood, like the MS6, to make room for that scoop.
Also, Inside Line also reported a "price well under $25,000". That would be interesting to see. Considering a fully loaded Mazda3 GT w/nav goes for $22,810. Maybe $24,000 may be an accurate price, assuming the MS3 gets suspension up-grades, wheel up-grades, obvious engine up-grade, and other characteristics that make the car unique.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=109309
A careful reading of the blurb says that it shares the same engine. It doesn't actually verify that Mazda will tune it for the same 274hp it has in the Speed6. I'd hope that (at a minimum) a Speed3 would include a LSD for that kind of power.
Why? Perhaps Mazda prefers to save some weight, save some gas mileage, and save some complexity, save some packaging headaches, and save some cost.
Good job, rorr. I didn't check the fine print.
Dodge will definitely have the larger Caliber SRT-4 at 300HP, and under $25k, so Mazda has it's work cut out for it, if they detune the 2.3. More than 25HP less would really make it a tough sell. Unless you just want less?
As the MazdaSpeed6 hasn't expactly set the sales floor, or the mags, on fire, I'd leave the engine as is in the 3.
DrFill
U r correct. They must be on the floor. Mazdaspeed isn't about simple, cheap, frugal, etc. That is left for the i, S, or SP editions. Mazdaspeed is about, well, speed, agility, over the top - u know "zoom zoom." AWD with some type of LIMITED stability control = Mazdaspeed.
Mazdaspeed 3 without AWD vs.
2007 VW GTI R32 AWD
Audi S3 (A super/turbo charged Audi A3 with AWD)
Doesn't look good for Mazda. But, what the heck, its cheap, has less weight, and can't hold a straight line 0-60
Hey, I didn't know the Mazdaspeed3 had even been tested yet. Where did you read it can't hold a straight line?
Sorry, but my money is staying in my pocket until Mazda decides to bring a worthy competitor.
Oh and as far as real cost associated with AWD, Mazda had some good choices. Obviously, one was to borrow the AWD from the speed 6 with some mods to fit the speed 3. The other was to borrow the AWD from Volvo with some upgrades to handle the power/torque. It is more profitable to expense tools where many more copies are made off the same tool. Ford is doing just that by borrowing the AWD system of the speed 6 for the Zephyr (soon to be ZSK or something like that). And I'm sure the same AWD will trickle down to the Mercury Milan and Ford Fusion. But not to the badly needed speed 3.
Perhaps, what Mazda is fearful of (if the speed 3 were to have AWB) is taking away sales from the speed 6 and other AWD vehicles (e.g. Tribute, CX-7). Case in point, the Mazda 5 looks like a great candidate for AWD (regardless if it ever becomes a Mazdaspeed). But it will never, ever happen for fear of sales cannibalization. Too bad, really. The market should be driving vehicle design, not vice-versa.
Hey, how about an AWD speed MX-5???
A worthy competitor to.....?
You seem to assume that the target for the Speed3 is the WRX/Evo. Why? An Audi S3? You are aware that the current AWD version of the A3 (the 3.2 Quattro) is damn near a $35k car. What do you think an S3 version would run?
I was under the impression the target was the more along the lines of the GTI or Civic Si. Or perhaps the upcoming Dodge Caliber SRT; all of which are relatively inexpensive FWD cars.
Mazda, the corp., decided what market they wanted to play in with the Mazdaspeed 3. IMHO, Mazda should have reached for a more "higher" market. If they had, again, IMHO, they could have had all of them beat. The speed 3 doesn't need to be great in any one category, just good at all (something like the Jack of all trades and master of none).
I believe the Mazdaspeed 3 will come in somewhere around $24k; I would be happy enough to pay another $4-$6k more for an AWD version with stability control. No Nav; no power seats; no cruise control; get rid of the radio, too . Make it sing; make it dance; make it put a smile on my face. Forget the streets; give me a racetrack.
I'm guilty of being an enthusiast of which I make no apologies.
I agree although I view it differently. Like other consumables, a car can be seen as a package which is distinguished by something greater than the sum of its parts. The Miata is the perfect example. In the case of the Mazdaspeed3, it does not have to be the most stylish, the fastest, the cheapest; but it does appear to me that Mazda is offering in its speed version a stylish, fast and (relatively) inexpensive combination that is exceptional. Of course, one could add more features (like AWD) but that would add to the cost and diminish the package; one could cut the cost but that would likely compromise its functionality; one could boost the horsepower by cutting the amenities. That does not appear to be the combination that Mazda is offering nor that would interest me. Mazda looks like it is positioning the car within its lineup as a step up from the current Mazda3 sport but below the Mazdaspeed6 / RX8. Sounds good to me.
The AWD system in th MS6 is from Volvo, with some mods. It id the Haldex AWD system.
Perhaps, what Mazda is fearful of (if the speed 3 were to have AWB) is taking away sales from the speed 6 and other AWD vehicles (e.g. Tribute, CX-7).
Thats kinda like saying the Subaru Impreza steals sales from the Subaru Legacy. Also, the Tribute is 4x4, not AWD, and the Tribute and CX-7 are SUV's, not performance compacts.
If the Mazdaspeed3 goes on sale in 2007, as reported, this will be the first time 2 current Mazdaspeed vehicles have been in production at the same time. I still think it will be a 2008 model, but, I could be wrong.
Case in point, the Mazda 5 looks like a great candidate for AWD (regardless if it ever becomes a Mazdaspeed).
I would happen to agree the Mazda5 would be great with AWD, I hope we do see it. I don't think there will ever be a MS5.
You could be right if they wanted to build even more demand than there is already. My feeling is that there are too many current and anticipated competitors (Civic Si, Dodge Calibre, even the venerable Toyota Corolla has a boosted version) for them to delay bringing out the model later than this fall or next spring. Assuming the Geneva pictures get supplemented with some specs and pricing there will be a mad clamour for this vehicle by X and Y gen-ers.
So far, the reviews on the MS6 have been great but the comparisons have not earned it the number 1 spot. I don't know about you all, but it bugs me knowing that a subcompact costing $10k less has AWD and the MS3 does not.
The MS6 was built to compete with the BMW 325Xi and 330Xi. Those two vehicles have X drive (AWD). Also, it was built to compete with the Legacy GT, and Audi A4 Quattro 2.0. I really do not understand how the A4 came in first, let alone beat out the MS6. I drove both at the drive event in Dallas, TX for Mazda. The A4 was slow, interior was a bit out dated, and felt like a heavy Jetta.
Back to the Mazdaspeed3. I really do not know what Mazda is trying to accomplish. All I know is that they are not going after STi, or EVO. You have to remember, Subaru and Mitsubishi have Rally heritage, Mazda does not. The STi and EVO are rally cars. Mazda does have race heritage, on pavement! So, it does make sense to make a FWD car, but, it must be better then whats out there now in compact FWD cars, and still be affordable. Also, since it will wear the Mazdaspeed name, it should be more then just a bump up in the Mazda3 line. It should have much more in it then the regular production Mazda3.
It is really easy to sit here and speculate what Mazda will do. But, considering the Mazda knows how successful the Mazda3 has been, I think Mazda will do as much as they can in the car, with it being FWD. Let's see what they have to show us in Geneva.
As far as Rally heritage is concerned, why does the MS6 get AWD while the MS3 gets stiffed??? BTW - does the MS6 have some sort of stability control (too lazy to look it up)?
"As far as Rally heritage is concerned, why does the MS6 get AWD while the MS3 gets stiffed???"
What Rally heritage? Mazda HAS NO rally heritage; that's the point. They aren't in competition with Suburu or Mitsu. Why is it that Mazda introduces a single AWD model (brand new in just the last few months) and you suddenly seem to think everything in their lineup should offer AWD?
"BTW - does the MS6 have some sort of stability control (too lazy to look it up)?"
Yes. Stability control (and a rear LSD) is standard on the MS6.
Thats what I think Mazda is going for. I do not know is LSD and DSC will be on the MS3. I think they should be, and it would be the smart thing to do. But, we will have to wait and see.
With no AWD and reduced power from the MS6, it's obvious they are not going after the STi/EVO crowd. If they were, the car would be $27-$28K, that's too close to the MS6.
P.S...I like the econobox on steroids comment
I don't know for sure, but I'm sure there are at least a couple of MS3 samples that Mazda built with AWD. The fact of the matter is Mazda doesn't want the MS3 to eat the MS6's lunch - not in horsepower, handling, nor (perceived) performance. Rally or rally heritage has nothing to do with it.
As a Mazda fan, I feel it's my obligation to ask for more and expect even more. For example, where is the wagon verion of the MS6 (and please don't give me that weight excuse)? A 275 hp AWD MS6 is where it should be.
Agreed. That would be counterproductive; you're supposed to battle the competition not your own brand. Also, if my hunch is right, then the MazdaSpeed6 is going to be much pricier than the MazdaSpeed3, so they will be clearly demarcated in the eyes of the consumer.
For example, where is the wagon verion of the MS6 (and please don't give me that weight excuse)? A 275 hp AWD MS6 is where it should be.
Can you say cross-over as in CX7. From what I hear, this platform may be used on several models so I would not be surprised if it ends up on a wagon somewhere in the Mazda/Volvo/Ford product lineup.
Wake up Mazda. Is there a Subaru product without AWD??? What about an Audi product line? Ditto for Volvo?
Now that that discussion is over, there may be a "silent" agreement between Mazda, Ford, and Volvo, created during the early design phase of the C3 architecture. Something like Volvo is the premium brand so only Volvo can have an AWD for the C class line of vehicles built off the same architecture. Before everyone gets their undies all in tizzy, I have no proof, just hypothetical. But definitely conceivable.
My beef is real simple. If the MS3 doesn't get AWD, neither will the regular 3s. And that's a shame. Maybe someday in the distant future they may add AWD to the MS3. And it will take that much more time for AWD to trickle down to basic models.
Subaru is a good example. They have banked everything on awd. They sell very sell in the northeast but their sales south of the snowline is minimal. Alot of folks see no benefit to awd if there is no snow...
Good point. The design and testing expense for the turbo 2.3 was already done for the MS6 (and due to Mazda's desire to use this drivetrain in the upcoming CX-7). But you couldn't adopt the AWD system from the MS6 to the MS3 easily (cheaply) because they are completely different floorpans/chassis. However, the AWD sytem developed for the MS6 is useful for the CX-7 (same chassis).
I also wouldn't be surprised if Ford comes out with an AWD version of the Fusion since it is also based on the Mazda6 chassis.
"Alot of folks see no benefit to awd if there is no snow..."
Um, yes. It's a bit of a stretch for me (living here in central Texas) to really understand the desire for AWD. Personally, I would put AWD at the BOTTOM of my personal pecking order for preferred drive configurations.